1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,000 I got the top story of the day. 2 00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Hi everybody, this is Trade Secrets. I'm Adam Curry, coming to you from Belgium and somewhere 3 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:16,000 on another computer is Dave Weiner. 4 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:21,000 Trade Secrets, man, here we are. We're in Seattle talking like we're, well, it ain't 5 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:29,000 exactly like Jamaica, but it's close. It's like 60 degrees Fahrenheit here, man. 6 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:33,000 Oh, really? What is that centigrade? Here it's like 14 centigrade. 7 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:38,000 So that's in the 50s. It's cold and rainy and damp and messy here. 8 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:43,000 Just like home. Just like home. Just like it is here, down home in Seattle. 9 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:47,000 Where you're still residing. How was your first week there, Dave? 10 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:53,000 I don't know. It's kind of Seattle-like. I changed the, I just changed this morning 11 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:58,000 the time zone for something to do. We're now back in the Pacific time zone officially. 12 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:04,000 Oh, so wait a minute. I want to point out to our listeners that even though we're 13 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:09,000 both very capable, very intelligent human beings with special skills, Dave's 14 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:14,000 an excellent developer. I can fly helicopter, sophisticated machinery. 15 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:19,000 Somehow it was very difficult for the two of us to figure out nine hours time difference. 16 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:22,000 We're going to do better next time, you know that. 17 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:25,000 Yeah, that's for sure. It's going to be much better. 18 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:30,000 Much better. So trade secrets. Here we are. This is our second show. 19 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:35,000 And Dave and I just spoke briefly. I was on my way back from a conference in the car. 20 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:40,000 And he, you officially knighted me. You said, oh, you know, whatever. 21 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:43,000 You're the producer on all this stuff. Yeah. 22 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:46,000 Which means it's my responsibility if it all fucks up, right? 23 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:53,000 Well, listen, absolutely. And all the credit goes to you. 24 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:58,000 I was listening to your daily source code thing on one of my walks where, 25 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:02,000 by the way, I love the term podcasting. Isn't that great? Isn't that fantastic? 26 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:05,000 Yeah. Good term. I did a Google on it. 27 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:08,000 And Ben Hammersley seems to have the first use of it. 28 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:12,000 So Ben Hammersley has appropriated almost everything. 29 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:16,000 I'm glad to be able to return the favor to him. 30 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:19,000 Hey, Ben, if you could hear this, thanks a lot. 31 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:24,000 Don't worry. I looked at the server logs and people are listening, Dave. Definitely. 32 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:28,000 Are they really? Yeah. I saw more than 600 downloads. 33 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:33,000 Yeah. Well, this one will be even better, I think. 34 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:36,000 Sorry for today. Are you there? 35 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:38,000 Yeah, I'm listening. I hear you. 36 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:41,000 When you say, oops, I stopped. 37 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:45,000 This magic six minute thing coming up any minute now. 38 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:48,000 No, no, no. I think we're going to be okay. It should be all right. 39 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:53,000 Yeah. You know, you really, it would be great if you took a picture of the, 40 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:57,000 of the sort of all the spaghetti wiring and stuff. Love to see what it looks like. 41 00:02:57,000 --> 00:03:00,000 Okay. I'll do that as we speak. 42 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:07,000 Anyway, the big news today is Twinkies Maker files for bankruptcy. 43 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:11,000 And this is something I didn't know that they employ about 34,000 people. 44 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:12,000 Holy crap. 45 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:17,000 And it says, the maker of Hustis Twinkies and Wonder Bread is seeking bankruptcy 46 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:21,000 court protection from its creditors, which is kind of weird. 47 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:24,000 I think, you know, I guess it's good. No, what do you think? 48 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:27,000 Well, first of all, I'm shocked. I'm shocked. 49 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:30,000 This is not just one, but two American icons. 50 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:34,000 Ladies, please don't squeeze in the Wonder Bread. 51 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:38,000 Wow. That's outrageous. Does it mention what the problem is? 52 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:43,000 Is this not the Enron of snack foods? Is that what we're at now? 53 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:46,000 It doesn't say. It doesn't say. It doesn't say. 54 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:50,000 I'll tell you one thing. It's probably not on the acting side. 55 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:52,000 If anything, you know. 56 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:56,000 So, you know, Krispy Kreme is kind of having the same problem. 57 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:58,000 They were writing really, really high-end. 58 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:02,000 It was sort of like, you'd have to wait for 15, 20 minutes to get your donut 59 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:04,000 at Krispy Kreme, but it was like a party, you know? 60 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:05,000 Yeah. 61 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:09,000 Is it Chapter 11 that they filed, or is that it? 62 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:10,000 Yeah. 63 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:12,000 Okay. Well, so then, I guess... 64 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:14,000 So, you could probably pick it up. 65 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:16,000 Yeah, we could pick it up cheap, you know. 66 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:20,000 For $10 billion, you get all the Twinkies you can eat. 67 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:23,000 Cool. I would have liked that when I was 12. 68 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:25,000 I was really big into Twinkies. 69 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:28,000 I can't remember the last time I had a Twinkies. 70 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:30,000 Well, you know, do you know that there are no Twinkies 71 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:34,000 of all places in the Netherlands that have never heard of a Twinkie? 72 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:35,000 Really? 73 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:41,000 And I predict that if they find out about Twinkies in the coffee shops 74 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:46,000 of Amsterdam, then we can pull that company on a bankruptcy in no time. 75 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:49,000 Yeah. Well, and then doing the service on this, 76 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:52,000 they found out there's like all these different aftermarket products 77 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:55,000 with Twinkies, like, you know, there's deep-fried Twinkies, 78 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:57,000 which looks really good. 79 00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:00,000 The trick there is you freeze them before you deep-fry them, 80 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:04,000 and that sort of helps the Twinkies not get all, like, 81 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:06,000 you know, crazy on the inside. 82 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:10,000 And then there are women who dress up and go out on the town, 83 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:12,000 and they call themselves Twinkies, 84 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:14,000 and they sort of dress like Twinkies, and it's nice. 85 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:16,000 They dress like Twinkies. 86 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:18,000 They dress like Twinkies. 87 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:21,000 See, they're pounds, you know, not such a bad thing, you know. 88 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:24,000 They look pretty good. 89 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:27,000 And one of them, I'll post this picture 90 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:30,000 on www.stripp.com in a little bit, 91 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:35,000 but one of them has a little food stain on the front of her dress. 92 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:36,000 Oh, no. 93 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:39,000 Now, maybe that's Twinkies. 94 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:42,000 Yeah, wow, there's a little stain going on there. 95 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:46,000 Anyway, all right, so I'm, by the way, hearing an echo 96 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:49,000 is not really that cool if there's something to do with that. 97 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:50,000 Really? 98 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:52,000 Let me just check, see if I can do something about that. 99 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:55,000 No, it's probably, you know, I'll just turn down my headphones. 100 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:57,000 There's probably just you coming back through my headphones, 101 00:05:57,000 --> 00:05:59,000 which I like to have them loud. 102 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:00,000 That's a DJ problem. 103 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:01,000 Really? 104 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:02,000 Yeah, it's a real DJ tick. 105 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:04,000 You know, you turn it up as loud as you can. 106 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:06,000 And of course, we all go deaf, you know. 107 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:08,000 Okay, that's cool. 108 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:11,000 So it's pretty amazing this works. 109 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:13,000 Yeah, although once in a while, 110 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:15,000 when you really talk loudly, 111 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:17,000 when you modulate, then it cuts out just a little bit. 112 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:19,000 So I'm wondering if maybe if you just pull back 113 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:23,000 your mic gain or anything, you could change there? 114 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:24,000 Not really. 115 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:25,000 I mean, I can, but. 116 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:26,000 Yeah, okay. 117 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:29,000 Well, there's a volume control. 118 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:32,000 A volume control? 119 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:33,000 Here. 120 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:35,000 One, two, three, four, five. 121 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:36,000 Is it going down? 122 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:37,000 Yeah, this is good. 123 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:38,000 Leave it like that. 124 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:41,000 So the way we're connecting, as we did with the first show, 125 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:43,000 and this is, it's pretty cutting edge stuff. 126 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:48,000 What we're doing is I'm using iChat AV 127 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:52,000 and we've set up a call with 128 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:54,000 AOL's Instant Messenger. 129 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:56,000 Now, what's interesting is that you can't just use 130 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:57,000 the talk feature. 131 00:06:57,000 --> 00:06:58,000 In fact, it'll say that, you know, 132 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:00,000 that I don't support the talk feature. 133 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:03,000 So we have to actually open up the webcam. 134 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:04,000 I figured out a way. 135 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:06,000 So we have a one-way video chat. 136 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:08,000 So that way, I'm pushing out a little bit of bandwidth 137 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:09,000 and I have my camera covered. 138 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:12,000 I just took a picture, Dave, with a dish rag. 139 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:15,000 So using as few bits as possible on video connection, 140 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:17,000 just using the audio. 141 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:20,000 And, you know, I'm routing everything around 142 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:22,000 and everything seems to be okay. 143 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:24,000 I'll knock on wood because my Mac has not been happy 144 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:26,000 since I've been doing all this. 145 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:28,000 I think when you do this audio stuff, 146 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:30,000 it messes up the hard drive somehow 147 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:33,000 and sectors get all, yeah, messed up. 148 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:35,000 And now my computer won't wake up from sleep. 149 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:38,000 It'll wake up and it's literally, 150 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:40,000 you know, how your Mac has a personality. 151 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:42,000 And so it wakes up and it goes, 152 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:44,000 oh, I don't think so. Click. 153 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:45,000 It turns off. 154 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:47,000 Yeah, my Windows machine has personality too. 155 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:50,000 Unfortunately, it's a really shitty personality. 156 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:55,000 It's like, and I had the same exact thing happen 157 00:07:55,000 --> 00:08:00,000 to play The Sims 2, which I got, 158 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:02,000 managed to get it to boot up for like, 159 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:05,000 and run for like one minute or two minutes. 160 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:07,000 Enough to know that I'm really going to love it, 161 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:09,000 but every time I try to run that thing, 162 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:12,000 it just totally hangs up my system. 163 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:15,000 Yeah, and I have to reboot twice. 164 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:17,000 Rebooting once isn't enough. 165 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:20,000 So you have to like reboot and then sort of like 166 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:22,000 watch the machine suffer and then reboot again 167 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:24,000 and then you get your machine back. 168 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:26,000 And every time something like that happens, 169 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:28,000 the machine gets further and further away 170 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:31,000 from being anything that you want to deal with. 171 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:33,000 And then what do you eventually wind up doing? 172 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:34,000 I mean, I know what happens with me 173 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:36,000 is I usually wind up getting so frustrated 174 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:38,000 and like, oh, time for a new laptop 175 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:40,000 and it gets passed down the line. 176 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:41,000 Exactly. 177 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:43,000 This machine was the result of a Sony VIO 178 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:45,000 getting into that state, which is now 179 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:48,000 sitting in a little container in my parents' garage 180 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:50,000 in New York City. 181 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:53,000 I can tell this one's going there, too. 182 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:55,000 Well, unfortunately, yeah. 183 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:57,000 Well, the same thing happened to my server. 184 00:08:57,000 --> 00:08:59,000 I tried to run some software up on 185 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:01,000 the new server I put together. 186 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:03,000 Now I can't bring Frontier to the front 187 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:05,000 without it crashing. 188 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:08,000 So basically, yeah, it's one of those situations. 189 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:10,000 So everything basically... 190 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:12,000 WebEdit to make changes. 191 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:13,000 WebEdit. That's right. 192 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:15,000 I'm doing all my stuff through WebEdit, 193 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:17,000 which is good discipline. 194 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:21,000 It sort of keeps my visualization ability active. 195 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:23,000 Unfortunately, I finally have a net connection 196 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:26,000 that is good enough in Seattle here. 197 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:28,000 I have a cable modem net connection, 198 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:30,000 which is pretty good. 199 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:32,000 And it's good enough for me to VPN 200 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:34,000 or whatever they call it into that machine. 201 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:36,000 But now I can't use it. 202 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:37,000 Oh, man. 203 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:38,000 That's just the way it goes. 204 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:40,000 So maybe once we get Frontier open sourced, 205 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:42,000 we can start addressing some of those 206 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:44,000 kinds of issues and get some good debugging 207 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:45,000 environment in there. 208 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:48,000 Regarding the Sims, 209 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:50,000 on itconversations.com 210 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:51,000 there is... 211 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:54,000 I'm trying to think if maybe I can find it. 212 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:56,000 There's a whole speech by... 213 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:57,000 What's the guy's name? 214 00:09:57,000 --> 00:09:58,000 The creator of the Sims? 215 00:09:58,000 --> 00:09:59,000 Will Wright. 216 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:00,000 Will Wright? 217 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:01,000 It could be Will Wright. 218 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:02,000 And I listened to it. 219 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:04,000 It's one of those hour-long deals. 220 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:06,000 And it was really good. 221 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:08,000 He talked a lot about the challenges 222 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:10,000 and how they figured it all out. 223 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:12,000 It was just unbelievable. 224 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:13,000 Yeah, Will Wright. 225 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:14,000 Damn. 226 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:15,000 An hour and 44 minutes. 227 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:17,000 That's captivating stuff. 228 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:18,000 Yeah. 229 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:20,000 Well, he's got a lot to say. 230 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:22,000 I mean, you can see that they spend a little bit more 231 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:24,000 than an hour and 44 minutes putting that game together. 232 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:26,000 Yeah, it's also like... 233 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:28,000 It's not really a game. 234 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:31,000 So SimXXX has never been about games. 235 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:35,000 They're sort of like, you know, 236 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:37,000 the worlds where you play God, you know? 237 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:39,000 And you can have a lot of fun. 238 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:45,000 I read a comment on my blog a year ago. 239 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:47,000 And it was just after my uncle died. 240 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:51,000 And I was obviously in a pretty Sims mode at the time. 241 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:55,000 So in his honor, I basically called my Sim...