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Hey, good afternoon. Good morning. We're a good evening, depending on where you are. Welcome to Trade Secrets. I'm

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out. I'm curry in Belgium. I'm a parcel. Dave Winner at 5am in Seattle. You're such a trooper, Dave.

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You're such a nice. I hardly even get a chance to like open my eyes. I don't want to lie to you.

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Let's do a Trade Secrets. Yeah, that's so cool. All right. Let's do it. You got to do it.

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The thing is we talk and then we, we, we, we jabber a little bit and then we're done. And then it's like,

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I don't want to do a show. No, I got nothing left to say. So, yeah. It's like a turtle. Yeah. Well, it's good to do

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one. We haven't done a Trade Secrets since podcasting became all the rage. Right. Which was last week.

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Yeah, I'm pretty good. It's, it's good. How was your trip? You got back from San Francisco yesterday?

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Yeah. It was really an easy trip. I found a hotel in just the perfect location.

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It's easy into San Francisco, easy down to the peninsula. So I can get to Palo Alto. And I spent a lot of time at Stanford.

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Working out the details. Got a whole bunch of things settled for blogger time three,

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which is on as you know that ever six. We found room for everybody who was on the wait list.

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Yeah, that's a lot of things. Well, I kind of figured at some point that when things, when the

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registration slowed down that, you know, basically when they were really raging, I had to put the weight

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list on because I didn't know how high it was going to go. And it was like middle august.

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And we had to, you know, leave room for Stanford people because, you know, they're one of their goals was that they'd be participating in

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firecons. So all things put together, said, okay, let's cut it off at 250 because we know we can do that.

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And let's win a lot bigger than 250 to me.

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Yeah, we're officially at 421 right now.

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And that's pushing it because at the same time we're 421.

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We're not that high in terms of dollars and we're going to need to feed people to provide them

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investments and mundane stuff like we have to pay for to clean the rooms.

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And we have to get Wi-Fi, right?

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Got it.

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We have Wi-Fi on it.

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And the webcast, which you'll be very interested to know, we've probably talked about that actually.

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Well, we haven't talked about the fact that Doug K has generously offered to take care of most of it.

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Well, it turns out that I don't think that's the way it's actually going to work.

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Well, it does news, you better tell me what's going on.

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Well, it's interesting.

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I mean, I talked with Doug before we went, you know, basically Doug was on the speaker phone at the meeting at Stanford.

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And so I was there with John Harrison, who was the AV guy at Stanford and Lauren Gellman, who is with the their Institute for the Internet and Society,

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which is the Stanford counterpart to Berkman Center.

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And there, Lauren is like the Stanford person who I'm working with on this conference.

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And so Doug has a stick that really works.

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You know, I mean Doug's IT conversations and coming up the other end of Doug's work is going to be like one beautiful, you know,

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every regard of beautiful product, you know, podcast, what audio, whatever you want to call it.

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I mean, it's thinking of Bob and MP3 and lots of different formats and it's going to stream and whatever.

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However, only one of his, he's only going to live stream one of the three set concurrent sessions.

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Right.

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So that's problem number one or opportunity number one is, but the other sessions would be recorded.

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Right.

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Pardon me.

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All the sessions would be recorded though.

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I don't see, you know, if we can do it, I don't see why not webcast all the sessions too.

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If we can, I want to try to do that.

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Okay.

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Last time, we had a deal with advanced net with Jeff Jarvis and they had huge capacity for webcasting.

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And, you know, at the very last minute, we thought, okay, let's ask Jeff Jarvis and Jeff said, yeah,

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and they helped us out and we were doing like, you know, huge amounts of webcasting through his network.

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So that was good.

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And they also, it was really interesting because I had been trying to explain to Doug about how the hobbyists decided this is so important.

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You know, but here we are, we're doing podcasting and, you know, what is podcasting, but amateur radio, right?

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And it's very much like blogging is amateur journalism, right?

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Right.

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And so, but Doug thinks in terms of professional and he thinks that what he's doing is enough and some sense it is enough.

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But it's not for me.

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I want to get this thing wide open for anybody, for any for you and for any of your podcasting.

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We're going to have a lot of AV geeks there.

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And it's just a podcast.

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Right.

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And, you know, I'm not going to tell them that hey, you know, well, Doug's doing a professional job and, you know,

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therefore, blah, blah, blah, you know, because that's, you know, they're going to go, well, Dave, what happened to the blogging religion here?

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And I'm going to go, uh, good point.

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So, and what really convinced me of this was that the Stanford people asked me about that after the meeting was over.

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This is what about the random people who want to, you know, record this or whatever.

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And I said, right on, exactly.

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You know, and that's the, that's where why holding these conferences at universities is such a good thing to do because

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universities think that way.

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They, they're not looking necessarily for the maximum policy.

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And especially at a place like, you know, Stanford Law School and a Berkman Center.

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It's, you know, it's, it's the internet for the people basically.

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So we're going to, we're going to try to come up with something where we're not only just

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going to record and do his usual very great job, but that it's also going to be wide open.

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There'll be a way for anybody to tap into the audio out in all three rooms.

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Really?

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Those are stuff.

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Yeah, well, that's what we want to do.

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Yeah.

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And they just have to work with us in advance.

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That's going to be the requirement, okay?

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So how do people get in touch with it?

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If they want to, if they want to help out and get in touch with an advance.

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I, I'd like them to get in touch with you.

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And then you tell me what your people, you tell me what they,

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I need more email.

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Thank you.

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Yeah, you do.

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I was thinking about you, right?

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I was thinking, I didn't get any of that email.

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You know, I don't get enough of the new podcast.

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The please add me to the directory emails.

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Oh, add it if you keep it.

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If you start whining, they're going to stop sending it to you.

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It's a little secret.

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You have to say you love it.

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I love it.

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I love it.

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I love it.

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I love it.

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I love it.

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Now I got to, for other people already working on the directory with me.

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They're, they're making their OPML branches and it's working.

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So I'm offloading.

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You know, I want, that's on my list.

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Totally.

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I was listening to that on the plane from, from San Francisco to Seattle last night.

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And I was so proud of you out in that you like totally understand and can explain the whole concept of these included directories.

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Well, that's my dream.

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Now that, but now that I'm actually doing it, I understand it.

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And it's so simple.

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Yeah.

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Still a little, you know, unless you're using radio user land, I haven't really come across a tool that does it exactly right that really exports.

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Well, perfectly.

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Now, that leaves me right into my next item on my list.

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Oh, wait.

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Don't tell me, I said, I said, didn't do something for you.

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Damn.

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Totally perfectly.

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It couldn't be better.

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Alright.

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It really couldn't be better.

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Okay.

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I was listening to your daily source code last night as I was saying on the plane and heard you go into the story of OPML.

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And, you know, but a lot of people don't know.

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I mean, OPML is a very popular format in RSS aggregators.

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Yeah.

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Because in radio, we chose to use that as our way of listing, you know, sets of feeds.

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And radio was pretty influential in the early days, so basically everybody did the same way.

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And, but what people don't know is that as you were so well-telling them,

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is that OPML is actually a very rich format which can do more than that.

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And it can do, you know, nested directories.

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And it can do this thing called inclusion.

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And it's also the underlying format of the radio outlineer.

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And here's the deal at him.

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We open source that code.

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Okay.

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And that's all part of frontier.

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Aha.

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Yeah.

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Radio builds out of frontier.

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I mean, that's a little secret, basically.

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There's no such thing.

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There's no separate code based for radio.

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All of the C source code for radio was also released as open source.

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And that includes the outlineer.

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It includes all the OPML code.

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It includes a complete TCP stack, including HTTP.

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So that, you know, moving these outlines around is something that, and providing a user interface for editing.

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And editing them is something that radio does so natively that, you know, it's hard to stop it from doing it, basically.

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So the, you know, a same kind of thing could be done with that that was done with the iPodder.

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We could get a project going to create, you know, the easiest to use outlineer out of the code base that's there.

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And it would be Windows and Mac.

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And, uh, and could, of course, be ported to any platform, including like Linux.

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And we would have the bootstep for something that will be so incredible when it actually works.

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In other words, that this can go in so far beyond, I mean, I don't want to say it because podcasting so incredible, but it can go beyond podcasting.

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And into a whole sort of knowledge tree for the universe.

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Well, it's really exciting because, you know, when you start a directory and I've started many directories and then people send you links, you know,

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it's, it becomes a real drag to maintain it, you know, and if you're not, if people send you an addition and it's not up in the same day, you know,

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people get bored and then it's just not alive. And by, you know, this delegation, which is also decentralization,

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and, you know, gives no one any real power, certainly not an decentralized power, but only over, you know, whatever tree they're working on,

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just the offload, and you can see the possibilities immediately.

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Immediately, you see, oh, well, duh, of course, this is how this supposed to work.

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And it's so simple, it really is.

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Well, it's the outline equivalent of the link. And, you know, and it, and outline, you know, it's just that's all we do,

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but follow the grain of the outline and say, okay, what would a link look like in this space?

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And if you go back to the outline as we did in the 80s, this would be the equivalent of what we call cloning,

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so that an item and all of its descendants can appear in as many places as you want to.

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They also call them file aliases in the Macintosh and they call them shortcuts in Windows.

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So, it's the concept of a pointer. It's a computer science thing that they always seem to have mystical powers when you use them,

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and this is no exception.

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Is that like a send link as well?

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Pardon me?

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Is that like a send link?

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I don't know what a send link is.

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Okay, that's in unix where you, you can say, okay, this file path, it's a symbolic link, it's not real,

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but if you point to it, it'll take you to the real file.

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Is that the same thing?

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Yeah, that's totally like it.

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Okay, got it.

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Yeah, you see everywhere in user talk, the user talk scripting language, it's the address symbol,

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general, it's a pointer.

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So pointers are like major, big deal, but having them in an interactive product like an outline or

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where the outline or then can, you know, try expanding one of these things when you open it up in your outline or

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there.

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Yeah, it's quite spinning one of your links and see what happens.

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Yeah, it's like the outline or something.

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Yeah, it just keeps going.

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If you go on this many levels, steep as you want.

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Now, here's something else that people might not know.

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Is that, okay, Adam, you can include their OPML in your directory, and that will have

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the effect of including their directory in yours.

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But they can also include your directory in theirs.

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Right.

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So that if they think they have, you know, this is where the ego starts coming in, right?

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And so people go, well, geez, I'm not going to be subordinate to Adam.

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You know, everybody's good as Adam.

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Unfortunately, or fortunately, or whatever, that happens a lot in the computer business.

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It's also true, just, you know.

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Yeah, well, it's true, but you know, sometimes following your pride is a good thing to do so that it's

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for the greater good.

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But, okay, so even if that isn't going to happen, then what can happen is if you've got

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the master directory for the pod space that include, they can include your directory.

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And there's because you have an OPML rendition of yours.

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Right.

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And when they do that, when they do that, they will also be including everything that you included.

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So, there's nobody.

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It's just like saying, nobody has the top homepage on the web.

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Right?

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Nobody has the top homepage directory.

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And this is a major, major thing, because it's this thing really catches on.

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Then we can get directories on every subject.

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And we can also get two or two directories on every subject.

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Yeah, it's amazing how amazing this role hasn't happened for weblogs.

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You know, the people who have weblogs have directories.

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You know what, it was the order which things happened.

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Actually, was what made it not happen for weblogs.

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Because before we had any idea, this idea post-stage weblogs,

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this outline, you know, directory stuff came after weblogs.

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Right.

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But at the time, it came online.

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There were already tens of thousands of blogs.

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And so, people had learned to accept complete chaos.

224
00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:45,000
Okay.

225
00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:49,000
Then Google had come along and had been doing a pretty good job of indexing them.

226
00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:53,000
And there were directories like Yahoo and Google has directories.

227
00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:54,000
Oh, yeah.

228
00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:55,000
And all kinds of directories with them.

229
00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:56,000
Yeah.

230
00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:57,000
I presume lots of politics.

231
00:14:57,000 --> 00:14:58,000
Yeah.

232
00:14:58,000 --> 00:14:59,000
And politics.

233
00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:00,000
Yeah.

234
00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:02,000
Lots of politics in there.

235
00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:05,000
But what was it going to say?

236
00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:06,000
Yeah.

237
00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:10,000
It could go a lot further than simply just for podcasting,

238
00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:11,000
to be for everything.

239
00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:13,000
And you have three versions.

240
00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:17,000
You being the daddyo of, you being the daddyo of the outline.

241
00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:19,000
I heard you say it about 10 minutes ago.

242
00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:23,000
This must be like the ultimate dream to have one big outline,

243
00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:26,000
traversing the entire universe.

244
00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:27,000
Yeah.

245
00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:30,000
Oh, we called it the World Outline.

246
00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:33,000
I mean, that was done when we first put it all this together.

247
00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:36,000
It was like the World Wide Web and there's a World Outline.

248
00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:38,000
So in a sense, there's one outline.

249
00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:42,000
But in there are an incident number of ways of picking it up.

250
00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:47,000
And yeah, you know, I just talk about frontier being my life's work.

251
00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:49,000
That's actually not true.

252
00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:52,000
If this thing happens, then I'm going to hang them up.

253
00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:55,000
Boy, because I haven't gotten another idea in me.

254
00:15:56,000 --> 00:16:02,000
Well, it's funny because if you look at podcasting, which, of course, is built on RSS,

255
00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:06,000
which is at least a corner of your life's work.

256
00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:07,000
Yeah.

257
00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:13,000
And what's happening with the directory now, it seems like it's exploding.

258
00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:15,000
And I'm just sitting here waiting.

259
00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:17,000
And I've even seen people write about it.

260
00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:19,000
Okay, the hype will be over in three weeks.

261
00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:22,000
But, and I'm just going by bandwidth consumption.

262
00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:24,000
Let's just make that an easy one.

263
00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:28,000
It's, I know what you're going to say.

264
00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:31,000
So I'll just tell you how much I'm pushing out per day.

265
00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:34,000
It is now up to 37 gigabits a day.

266
00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:38,000
And I'm still doing the same amount of shows.

267
00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:41,000
Well, so, you know, of course, you're supposed to say,

268
00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:45,000
Hey, we need a bit to our end.

269
00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:48,000
Oh, it's very good.

270
00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:52,000
Hey, Dave, I got some, I got some listener feedback here.

271
00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:54,000
A message for you, actually.

272
00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:55,000
Yeah.

273
00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:56,000
Yeah, hold on, I'll play.

274
00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:57,000
Oh, yeah.

275
00:16:57,000 --> 00:16:58,000
Okay.

276
00:16:58,000 --> 00:16:59,000
Hi, Dave.

277
00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:03,000
This is Aldo Costignata from Medfield, Massachusetts.

278
00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:10,000
And I'm sending this because I wanted to reply in a way

279
00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:14,000
to Dave Winner's comments that you out on your show the other day

280
00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:19,000
about a link being one of the fundamental components of the web.

281
00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:23,000
I got me thinking, and I guess I've been thinking about this before.

282
00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:27,000
I heard that that really one of the kind of defining characteristics

283
00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:30,000
when I got that perhaps we don't think about it.

284
00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:33,000
Perhaps this is something to be the community out there that's particularly

285
00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:35,000
the open source community thinks about a lot.

286
00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:40,000
But is that the web provides an incredibly efficient way

287
00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:45,000
to measure ideas, to measure the value of ideas very early

288
00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:50,000
before without requiring huge capital investment.

289
00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:55,000
And I think this notion really if it hasn't been discussed much

290
00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:58,000
is one that's really worthy of focus and discussion,

291
00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:02,000
because I think it has huge implications, particularly for those people

292
00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:04,000
that are developing just for the love of it.

293
00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:07,000
You know, the iPod or community in essence.

294
00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:13,000
And that if the community can harness the value of an idea

295
00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:17,000
or can measure the value of an idea really early on,

296
00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:21,000
and can measure that throughout the life of an idea,

297
00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:24,000
then I think that that can give those people that devote themselves

298
00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:28,000
to it a lot of freedom in terms of finding interesting ways

299
00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:31,000
to get financing basically to get paid for what they do

300
00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:34,000
without, at the same time, having to give up the freedom

301
00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:39,000
in which they do it to, you know, they don't have to work for a corporation.

302
00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:43,000
Things like that, that's the core concept.

303
00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:47,000
And I guess what I want to do is just put that concept forward

304
00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:51,000
and see if there's interest in really trying to understand it

305
00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:54,000
or to find out if it's already something that's been thought about

306
00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:58,000
and dismissed and just put it out there.

307
00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:01,000
My email address is Aldo Aildio at the world,

308
00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:03,000
so if this ever gets out to your community

309
00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:05,000
and there's kind of an interest in researching it more,

310
00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:07,000
it's something that I'd actually really like to dedicate some time

311
00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:12,000
to research, because I think it could have really fundamental impact

312
00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:16,000
on the way we view open source and distributed development

313
00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:17,000
all of those things.

314
00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:18,000
All right, thanks a lot.

315
00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:20,000
Could you hear that Dave?

316
00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:22,000
Yeah, I heard the whole thing.

317
00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:25,000
I think it's bright.

318
00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:29,000
I'm not sure about it, it can generate financing,

319
00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:33,000
but, you know, there's a reason why the web

320
00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:37,000
has attracted all the hippies, you know, because, you know,

321
00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:41,000
as she's lighting up one, God, which I mean,

322
00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:43,000
yeah, I'm right there.

323
00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:46,000
And where is the gadget?

324
00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:48,000
This is what we don't talk about,

325
00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:50,000
but let's talk about it anyway.

326
00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:55,000
Okay, but, and Gadget was reviewing trade secrets.

327
00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:58,000
Yeah, and I thought they're doing a great job,

328
00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:03,000
and, you know, and, you know, support what they're doing.

329
00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:05,000
I'm a big fan of him, Gadget.

330
00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:09,000
And they said that, you know, basically, this is the best form of radio,

331
00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:13,000
because Adam's always doing bond hits on the,

332
00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:17,000
and they kind of, they kind of said, I'm doing it too,

333
00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:19,000
but I want to get that really clear.

334
00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:20,000
I'm not.

335
00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:23,000
You wouldn't live in a country where you've got to jail for that shit.

336
00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:27,000
So the next thing I don't want to hear is the DEA knocking down

337
00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:29,000
my door going, uh, DEA.

338
00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:30,000
What do you do?

339
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:31,000
Dave's not here, man.

340
00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:33,000
Dave's not here.

341
00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:37,000
Anyway, to go back with, what was just me?

342
00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:38,000
I'll know, I'll know.

343
00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:39,000
I'll know.

344
00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:41,000
I'll know, Castaneda.

345
00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:45,000
Yeah, I mean, the, the web was about disintermediate,

346
00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:47,000
or the internet is about disintermediation,

347
00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:51,000
which means, the fancy words, which means, uh,

348
00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:53,000
getting rid of the intermediaries.

349
00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:55,000
And, um, you know,

350
00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:58,000
not that we didn't need intermediaries, because we did.

351
00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:00,000
I mean, in the era of centralization,

352
00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:03,000
it was all about intermediaries, um,

353
00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:06,000
you know, the big TV networks and radio networks.

354
00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:10,000
Um, you know, where do you get to news from the big airlines?

355
00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:14,000
Uh, everything had to be big in order for everybody to have it.

356
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:18,000
And the internet says the information doesn't have to be like that.

357
00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:22,000
I don't have to be big in order for anybody to have the information that I produce.

358
00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:25,000
So as a result, you know, for the first 10 years,

359
00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:27,000
which is really about where we're at now,

360
00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:29,000
first 10 years of the web,

361
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:33,000
we were focusing on text because the pipes were, you know,

362
00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:35,000
that's all we could actually handle.

363
00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:36,000
Pretty narrow.

364
00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:37,000
Right.

365
00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:39,000
And then the tools, the content development tools,

366
00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:41,000
the editing tools, the, you know,

367
00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:43,000
all the stuff that we're using now.

368
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:44,000
Well, it isn't new.

369
00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:46,000
It got really affordable.

370
00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:48,000
Oh, I tell people this all the time, Dave.

371
00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:49,000
I mean, I, I invented the,

372
00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:51,000
yeah, 40,000 dollar website.

373
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:53,000
You know, that was, that was, yeah.

374
00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:54,000
And why?

375
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:55,000
Because it was people power.

376
00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:59,000
Guys writing code by hand and writing it in note pad and VI.

377
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:03,000
And, you know, now it's the, the 40 dollar tool literally can do the same.

378
00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:05,000
If not better.

379
00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:06,000
Right.

380
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:10,000
And so money now is, well, it is still an object.

381
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:11,000
It's less of an object.

382
00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:14,000
And, um, and that means that we can now try to do radio.

383
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:18,000
And, you know, Adam, we've been waiting trying to get this to bootstrap.

384
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:23,000
You know, like I did a project last year with Chris Lydon,

385
00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:26,000
um, who was one of my colleagues at Berkman Center.

386
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:29,000
And Chris did a series of interviews with bloggers and, you know,

387
00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:32,000
luminaries and these great stuff.

388
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:35,000
And we produced an RSS 2.0 seed with includes enclosures.

389
00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:38,000
And, you know, people, some people listen to it,

390
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:40,000
but it wasn't like daily source code.

391
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:44,000
And it didn't take off like, you know, Dave slutters stuff

392
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:48,000
or, uh, any of the things that we're seeing.

393
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:50,000
And, you know, it may be that it wasn't a critical master.

394
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:52,000
Maybe that time wasn't right.

395
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:53,000
No, I didn't.

396
00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:54,000
There was no eye powder.

397
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:57,000
I think Chris Lydon could do a great job now,

398
00:22:57,000 --> 00:23:00,000
if he would continue to release stuff on his RSS feed.

399
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:03,000
And that, I think that's the only thing that happened today.

400
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:04,000
Is that right?

401
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:06,000
I think it was more than that.

402
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:08,000
I think the eye powder was instrumental,

403
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:11,000
but I think you doing one every day, right,

404
00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:14,000
a very big difference.

405
00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:15,000
Are you doing?

406
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:16,000
Yeah, hold on.

407
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:17,000
My battery just died.

408
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:19,000
Talk amongst yourselves for a second.

409
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:20,000
I just got a...

410
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:21,000
No, I'll tell.

411
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:22,000
Hold on a second.

412
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:23,000
Let me grab my bag.

413
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:24,000
Hold on.

414
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:27,000
Okay.

415
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:28,000
Maybe I should place the music.

416
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:30,000
Well, Adam is out for it.

417
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:32,000
And, uh, I haven't had something.

418
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:34,000
I think I has something to do with this.

419
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:36,000
This is all about casting is all about.

420
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:38,000
Don't tell Adam that I did this.

421
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:39,000
Here we go.

422
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:42,000
They're good.

423
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:43,000
I don't know.

424
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:44,000
Come on, guys.

425
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:45,000
Come on.

426
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:46,000
Come on.

427
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:03,000
It's become my favorite song.

428
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:05,000
I live that one so much.

429
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:07,000
Are you back?

430
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:08,000
I don't know.

431
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:14,000
I've got to make a turn this thing off.

432
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:17,000
Anyone there?

433
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:19,000
No, hold on.

434
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:20,000
I'm here.

435
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:21,000
I'm here.

436
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:22,000
Are we recording?

437
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:23,000
Yeah.

438
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:24,000
I was funny.

439
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:25,000
I'm here.

440
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:27,000
I thought you missed a turn this up.

441
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:28,000
Hold on.

442
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:29,000
I just got to replace the battery.

443
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:30,000
My transmitter.

444
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:31,000
Hold on.

445
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:36,000
How cool.

446
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:41,000
We have to hold on while he's battery.

447
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:45,000
Yeah, Doug K is going to interview me at four o'clock my time.

448
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:46,000
So I had bought new batteries.

449
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:49,000
We'll ask him not to listen to trade secret.

450
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:51,000
No way.

451
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:52,000
Oh, shit.

452
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:54,000
Just hit my head on the left.

453
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:55,000
All right.

454
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:56,000
Now, wait a minute.

455
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:58,000
I was going to say, oh, no.

456
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:00,000
You know what happened Dave this morning?

457
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:05,000
I was up early because I was interviewed by the Australian Broadcast Corporation.

458
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:06,000
Or is it company?

459
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:07,000
You are such a video player.

460
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:08,000
I am.

461
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:09,000
I am.

462
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:10,000
I'm bending over and saying, come on.

463
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,000
Are you Aussie?

464
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:15,000
I bought me here, baby.

465
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:18,000
So, so I looked it.

466
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:21,000
I was looking over the iPod or dot org site.

467
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:23,000
I did something really cool.

468
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:25,000
I actually rewrote history.

469
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:28,000
There's a section there that just called the history page.

470
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:33,000
And it was kind of like just a running ramble of thoughts.

471
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:38,000
And I've been telling the story so often for the past week to, you know, in interviews.

472
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:41,000
Then I decided, let me just write down that story because that's the story.

473
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:44,000
You know, and I could embellish a little bit more.

474
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:47,000
But you should look at it because I went back and I traced the web blogs.

475
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:49,000
I traced the web blog postings.

476
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:51,000
I traced everything that happened.

477
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:54,000
And it was, and I actually, and I wrote about this.

478
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:59,000
I said, there's a couple things I did because I knew that I really wanted this thing, this iPodter.

479
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:03,000
And I wasn't doing daily source code until I built iPodter.

480
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:10,000
And in fact, the name daily source code at the time was chosen specifically to appeal to developers.

481
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:13,000
That makes sense, right?

482
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:17,000
And so I released the iPodter script.

483
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,000
And then I actually blog this.

484
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:22,000
And I said, hey, I'm just going to produce this every single day.

485
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:27,000
So you all have something y'all, so y'all have y'all have something to work with.

486
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,000
They talk like that in the middle.

487
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:31,000
No, that's how developers talk.

488
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:35,000
The y'all talk y'all y'all.

489
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:37,000
So that's how it happened, Dave.

490
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:39,000
And that was the difference really.

491
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:41,000
I mean, that's what it was.

492
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:45,000
It was just the people who looked at the script and said, oh, that's interesting.

493
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:47,000
I can do that better.

494
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:48,000
That's what it was.

495
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:51,000
And I put a link to that.

496
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:54,000
Yeah, did you see the history page?

497
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:55,000
I do.

498
00:26:55,000 --> 00:27:01,000
I think I represented your your contributions correctly.

499
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:02,000
If not, let me know.

500
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:06,000
Yeah, I'm still really trying to take the back seat here because, you know,

501
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:09,000
it's you're doing, I mean, I don't want to stroke you too much,

502
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:11,000
but you're doing such a good job here.

503
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:16,000
And every technology would be good to have somebody who sort of like,

504
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:19,000
you know, doing the art of it, the content.

505
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:22,000
And then somebody else is sort of thinking about, okay,

506
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:24,000
well, what's the next step in the infrastructure?

507
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,000
That's why we're a great team.

508
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:27,000
That's why we're good.

509
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:28,000
Yeah, no.

510
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:29,000
We're good.

511
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:30,000
We're good.

512
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:32,000
We're good.

513
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:33,000
We're good.

514
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:34,000
We're, but we should say that.

515
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,000
We should, but we should say we're good.

516
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:38,000
It's a, it's a blogger con.

517
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:40,000
We should hand them out too.

518
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:41,000
I do.

519
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:42,000
Hi, we're good.

520
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:44,000
I'm a blogger.

521
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:45,000
I'm good.

522
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:47,000
You can go with that.

523
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,000
No, I'm a pot actually.

524
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:51,000
Doug K had a really cool thing.

525
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:55,000
He was trying to figure out the, the verbiage of pot casting.

526
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:56,000
Oh, man.

527
00:27:56,000 --> 00:28:00,000
Um, and so he asked the question, well, what, okay,

528
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:03,000
pot casting must be the creation of this, right?

529
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:07,000
What we're doing right now, or we're getting ready to do a podcast.

530
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:10,000
Because the podcast is when you wind up and you throw it, right?

531
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:11,000
Yeah, you get this.

532
00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:13,000
The podcast is, we're pod pulling.

533
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:14,000
Right.

534
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:16,000
And so just what he came.

535
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:17,000
Yeah, right.

536
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:18,000
So I'm going to go there with.

537
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:23,000
So he said, then, what is listening is listening also podcasting?

538
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:24,000
Or is it podcasting?

539
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:25,000
No.

540
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:27,000
It's a podcasting, exactly.

541
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:29,000
And so, and it's funny thing.

542
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:31,000
What is this that I had bought that?

543
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:32,000
You bought that domain name.

544
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:33,000
Yeah.

545
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:36,000
I remember a podcast, and then I, and I still have it.

546
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:38,000
I have an interesting one.

547
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:41,000
I have a, I have a really, really good one.

548
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:44,000
But always use, I kept the still name for many, many years.

549
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:47,000
It's, uh, clambumping.org.

550
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:54,000
It's a little bit like the bad thing that I've never, my clambumping.

551
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:57,000
So somebody asked me, I, you both got this interview too.

552
00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:58,000
I bet you did.

553
00:28:58,000 --> 00:28:59,000
Which one?

554
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:04,000
The yesterday, eric at, uh, OGR.

555
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:06,000
Oh yeah, yeah.

556
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:09,000
Written, written interview.

557
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:12,000
No, I actually do those voice. I never do written interviews.

558
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:16,000
Oh, he sent me a whole bunch of questions. I was the only written one I did. I figured.

559
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:18,000
And that's actually based on that.

560
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:19,000
How are they?

561
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:20,000
I what?

562
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:23,000
That's the best news holiday. I write all day anyway.

563
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:24,000
So I think I have been doing it here.

564
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:25,000
Right. So yeah.

565
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:26,000
I spoke to him.

566
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:27,000
Yeah.

567
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:28,000
He has some good questions about making it.

568
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:29,000
So yeah.

569
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:33,000
Well, he asked if there was a connection between Howard Stern and podcasting.

570
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:35,000
It was also happening at the same time.

571
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:40,000
And I said, you know, well, it's good. Basically we're all spreading out.

572
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:41,000
We're trying out a lot of the ideas.

573
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:48,000
I honestly think that the satellite radio is going to catch on to podcasting and use it effectively

574
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:49,000
before they get Howard Stern.

575
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:51,000
Oh, really? I think it'll happen before.

576
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:52,000
Yeah. Well, before 2006.

577
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:53,000
Why not?

578
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:54,000
Yeah.

579
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:55,000
They have a distribution system.

580
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:56,000
Yeah.

581
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:59,000
Right. I mean, can you imagine having XM radio for your home?

582
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:02,000
And connecting it up to your computer.

583
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:06,000
And, you know, doing the TV thing from your computer.

584
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:07,000
Or conversely.

585
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:11,000
Conversely, having what they should have a channel that does nothing more than

586
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:16,000
subscribes to five different feeds and just broadcast whatever it comes up against.

587
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:17,000
That would be cool too.

588
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:20,000
That's exactly exactly right. Why not?

589
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:23,000
Or, you know, give you a guy like Adam Curry, right?

590
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:25,000
I mean, do you have a track record for doing this stuff?

591
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:26,000
Yeah.

592
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:27,000
Give me a goddamn channel.

593
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,000
Put me on the bird, baby.

594
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:33,000
Actually, I was just going to give you a hundred million dollars.

595
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:35,000
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

596
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:36,000
Let me retrieve that statement.

597
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:37,000
Look at me saying.

598
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:38,000
Oh.

599
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:39,000
Channel the bird.

600
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:40,000
100 million dollars.

601
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:41,000
I'm calling NASA.

602
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:43,000
We're blessing off our own damn spaceship.

603
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:48,000
Hey, don't get it started.

604
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:50,000
I like the way you open the business.

605
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:52,000
Would you shuttle for 75?

606
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:55,000
I could barely do it.

607
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:58,000
I should probably work that out with them.

608
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:02,000
Maybe we will pick cash for like 65 if you want to go for that.

609
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:03,000
You get cash.

610
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:04,000
Yeah, right.

611
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:07,000
If you want to tax three, tax three, get it for 50.

612
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:10,000
I want to blow the doors off of broadcasting.

613
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:11,000
That's what I want to do.

614
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:14,000
This is, I think I'm finally finding my life's mission.

615
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:15,000
I mean, I was listening.

616
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:18,000
Did you hear the Steve Wazniak speech at?

617
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:20,000
No, I haven't.

618
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:22,000
Well, it's keep talking about it.

619
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:23,000
Yeah.

620
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:24,000
Well, it was, it was podcasts.

621
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:25,000
IT conversations put it up.

622
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:28,000
And I sat there listening as Wazniak,

623
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:29,000
who can't be much older than I am.

624
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:30,000
What is he easy about your age?

625
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:31,000
So about 49?

626
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:32,000
No.

627
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:34,000
He's older than me.

628
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:35,000
He's older than me.

629
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:36,000
Probably.

630
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:37,000
Yeah.

631
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:38,000
Because he was out of your heart.

632
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:41,000
He was doing the same things as a kid that I was doing.

633
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:42,000
I was reading Tom Swift Jr.

634
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:46,000
By the way, it's been, I've been keeping this secret.

635
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:47,000
But hey, this is straight secret.

636
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,000
So I'm going to keep it this secret for a long time.

637
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:54,000
I've secretly been doing an audio book of Tom Swift.

638
00:31:54,000 --> 00:32:00,000
Because they're all on the Gutenberg project.

639
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:02,000
These books are more than 100 years old.

640
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:05,000
So of course, that would mean that Wazniak,

641
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:06,000
that old too.

642
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:12,000
But he also used the radio shack 101 projects in one.

643
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:13,000
You know, all that shit.

644
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:14,000
I was like, my God.

645
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:17,000
But I had, you know, at a certain point,

646
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:19,000
it switched to broadcasting when I was about 15.

647
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:21,000
I built my first transmitter.

648
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:23,000
He was also a ham radio operator and built stuff.

649
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:26,000
And just about when I got to the end and the,

650
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:28,000
and the or and the logic gates,

651
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:30,000
is where I went off into broadcasting.

652
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:33,000
And I think I made a mark.

653
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:34,000
It may be a hairy one.

654
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:36,000
I made a mark in broadcasting.

655
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:40,000
Certainly on the MTV and on the radio stations around the world.

656
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:42,000
And then it was the internet.

657
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:45,000
I was right at the beginning of,

658
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:49,000
yeah, I was certainly one of those responsible for commercializing the net.

659
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:51,000
Whether that's a good or bad thing is up in the air.

660
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:53,000
I think it's good personally.

661
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:57,000
And you know, and then I just had like five years of

662
00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:00,000
dicking around and nothing really,

663
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,000
you know, learn how to fly helicopters.

664
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:03,000
That's nice.

665
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:06,000
And it's, you know, tried to start a couple things

666
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:09,000
and lost some money here and there and made a little bit.

667
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:11,000
And, you know, but just became the user,

668
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:13,000
which is what I promised myself.

669
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:15,000
And then all of a sudden boom, you know,

670
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:16,000
here's, oh, wait a minute,

671
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:17,000
there's something else.

672
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:20,000
And I'm kind of leading the charges.

673
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:21,000
It's really exciting.

674
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:23,000
You know, this may be what I'm supposed to do.

675
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:24,000
That's what you did in the last.

676
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:28,000
That's what you did in the last five years you learned.

677
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:32,000
You are assimilated and, you know, learned how to do.

678
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:33,000
We all did.

679
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:37,000
I mean, you know, five years ago, five years ago,

680
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:42,000
I had never, you know, never once the standard.

681
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:46,000
I mean, I had once things would become standards, right?

682
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:49,000
But I didn't know how to, you know,

683
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:52,000
how to get other people to do what I was doing.

684
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:55,000
And to start tripped over that, you know,

685
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:59,000
that basically, if you want somebody to do something,

686
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:00,000
then you need to do it first.

687
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,000
And that's the big secret.

688
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:04,000
You know, you can't stand back and say,

689
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:07,000
well, I'll do this and everybody else would you all just do that?

690
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:08,000
No, it doesn't work.

691
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:09,000
They simply won't do that.

692
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:10,000
They won't do that.

693
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:11,000
They won't do what you're doing.

694
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:13,000
You know, say, okay, well, who do you do?

695
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:15,000
We'll just copy you and whatever.

696
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:18,000
And, you know, that was the first quite frustrating

697
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:21,000
because I said, well, she's already doing that.

698
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:22,000
Let me do that.

699
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:23,000
You do something else.

700
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:26,000
And then I realized that, that,

701
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:28,000
okay, I just learned to accept that.

702
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:29,000
Okay, number one.

703
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:30,000
Yeah.

704
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:34,000
And then I started when I, when the thought popped in my head is,

705
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:36,000
I wish everyone would do X,

706
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:38,000
and then all I did was start doing X,

707
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:40,000
and seeing how great it was.

708
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:41,000
You know, I can't believe it.

709
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:43,000
And I always meant it.

710
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:44,000
You know what I mean?

711
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:46,000
It wasn't like I was saying that.

712
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:47,000
I wanted to do it.

713
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:49,000
Right, I was doing it saying it was great

714
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:51,000
because I was really, you know,

715
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:52,000
well, what I was doing.

716
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:56,000
And so excited and trying to get everybody else excited about it.

717
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:59,000
And so, you've now done that.

718
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:03,000
And that's, you know, that's something to be quite proud of.

719
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:06,000
I mean, you actually got people to copy you.

720
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:12,000
And that is how you create these swells of activity.

721
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:14,000
And then the question is, does it have legs?

722
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:16,000
And I'm sure this does.

723
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:19,000
I mean, I was sure, I was sure it had legs,

724
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:21,000
and we were sitting in a hotel in New York.

725
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:23,000
Yeah, was a 99, wasn't it?

726
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:24,000
Yeah, I knew.

727
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:26,000
I think it was 2000, but, you know, it was like,

728
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:28,000
when the light bulb went on for me,

729
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:31,000
and I, oh shit, that's a good idea.

730
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:32,000
You know?

731
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:35,000
So, so, how did this like, hand-dude?

732
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:36,000
Yeah.

733
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:37,000
Yeah.

734
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:38,000
Like, celebrity.

735
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:39,000
Yeah.

736
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:40,000
Did he figure this?

737
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:41,000
Yeah.

738
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:42,000
Yeah.

739
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:45,000
You're, you're, your star had to fade a little bit before.

740
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:47,000
I, a, before it can really shine.

741
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:49,000
Well, before they're ready to let you have another career.

742
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:50,000
You see, that's true.

743
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:51,000
That's true.

744
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:52,000
Say that about you anymore.

745
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:53,000
They don't hear that.

746
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:55,000
You know, they don't say okay, well, Adam Curry.

747
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:56,000
I'll hear you forgot with the hair.

748
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:57,000
You don't hear that.

749
00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:58,000
But, sorry.

750
00:35:58,000 --> 00:35:59,000
Not much.

751
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:00,000
It's still around.

752
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:01,000
Yeah.

753
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:02,000
It's a reference.

754
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:03,000
It's like, a beat.

755
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:04,000
I have, yeah.

756
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:05,000
It's a beat.

757
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:08,000
But, I have to explain to some people who you are,

758
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:09,000
and what your background is, people,

759
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:10,000
and just you didn't know.

760
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:11,000
You think, well, do yousware were they in the 80s, right?

761
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:18,000
They obviously weren't around what you were doing and where they forgot or that's also possible

762
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:20,000
I forgot a lot about the ages to

763
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:24,600
Well, you don't think they say about the 60s if you remember to be weren't there

764
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:32,000
So I've been listening and I've been subscribing to the coma 1000 news feed. Oh, that's so awesome

765
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:38,560
Yeah, I got one that I want to play. Here's a short news story. These are great because about 45 minutes and they come in neatly bundled pack

766
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:47,360
45 seconds. Sorry. Yeah, this is this is a this is from her who gives us tips on how to use our computers and as it may be left

767
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:48,560
But I you know

768
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:50,560
This is also a good way to you know

769
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:53,560
Well, I'll talk about content routing in a second

770
00:36:53,560 --> 00:37:02,560
But here's a herb with is a computer tip. Oh, don't click that link the opt-out link on spam email messages clicking it won't do any good

771
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:08,560
An according to message labs a leading email security service. It may let a hacker take over your computer

772
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:14,560
The spammers are putting special code in those click here to opt-out links the moment you click on it. They turn your computer into a zombie

773
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:21,560
Bob Sullivan technology correspondent for MSNBC says they do that by hiding a Trojan horse program on your system

774
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:26,560
Once this Trojan is installed on your computer, they can do anything with your computer that you could do

775
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:32,560
They can send out as much spam as they want for your computer, and that's probably why they're doing it, but they can also move around the internet using your computer

776
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:38,560
They could use your computer to attack another computer and of course they could feel all your personal information from it. So how do you protect yourself?

777
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:45,560
MSNBC's Bob Sullivan says the safest thing you can do is to read your email and plain text and not HTML format

778
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:51,560
You should also have your web browser in a high security setting. Keep your anti-virus software up to date

779
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:56,560
You put a ginormous condom all over yourself and you're computer

780
00:37:56,560 --> 00:38:04,560
And ever click the unsubscribed link in a spam message and that's today's tip. I'm her voice bomb the consumer man looking out for you

781
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:10,560
On Como 1000 news. I love that. I feel so much safer. The herb is looking out for us

782
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:12,560
Oh, it's a good guy

783
00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:15,560
He's great, but he's saying all the right things

784
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:21,560
I got to go and see those guys. They're local. I'm here in Seattle there in Seattle. We've got to find that. We've got some soulwriters here

785
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:24,560
But they're doing is so incredibly cool

786
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:30,560
I want to tell you a little story. Yeah, go for it. It's a real much time

787
00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:35,560
We had the Thursday evening meetings at Berkman. We would do them every Thursday

788
00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:40,560
There's open meeting for all blotters, not just people at Harvard, but just anybody in the area

789
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:46,560
And people that would come in town and they'd come by and see us. One of the regulars of those meetings is Lisa Williams

790
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:50,560
And we were talking about, that's a good example of what we're talking about

791
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:52,560
The nature of the web came up or blogs or whatever

792
00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:58,560
And she said that blogs are like, you know, food that you can eat

793
00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:02,560
Like, okay, like food you can eat with chopsticks

794
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:07,560
And asked for an explanation said, well, you know, if you look at what

795
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:12,560
You know, Chinese food is, you know, is that they design their food

796
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:16,560
So that it can be eaten with chopsticks and you stop and think about it and it's true

797
00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:20,560
There are these little chunks. They're already pre-sliced everything's already free

798
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:24,560
They just pick it up and put it in your mouth, which isn't like Western food

799
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:26,560
Which is designed to be eaten with a fork and knife

800
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:29,560
So you like the steak is like that, right?

801
00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:35,560
And then she was saying that the blogs are like Chinese food

802
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:42,560
That way, they're these little morsels, little, you know, those standalone things

803
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:48,560
And that's what struck me about the kamo, you know, podcast seed

804
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:51,560
Is that what they're doing like you said in your daily source code

805
00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:55,560
Is that, okay, they're now giving me the daily news in a form

806
00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:58,560
Where, okay, if I'm not interested, just hit the fast forward

807
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:00,560
But then I'm onto the next one.

808
00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:02,560
Now that's a revolution.

809
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:07,560
And the next step, of course, is, you know, subscribe to the general interest feed here

810
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:10,560
Or the sports feed or, you know, that's the next step

811
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:16,560
Yeah, it's, it's putting a lot more, the user is a lot more in control

812
00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:20,560
And yet there's nothing about it that says you can't like make money doing this

813
00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:23,560
There's another business models are negated

814
00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:25,560
However, they will have to deal with more competition

815
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:29,560
Because there's not this scarce resource called bandwidth

816
00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:32,560
I mean, or frequency effects or effects or effects

817
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:34,560
Spect malfeventor complètement likely

818
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:36,560
Let's not turn, sorry, I'm not young, you can jersey

819
00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:38,560
But yeah, it's wonderful they took the lead

820
00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:42,560
In what you're doing with the wg vi8 Boston, that's fantastic

821
00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:46,560
Yeah, there there's a lot more of that, it's so exciting

822
00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:50,560
I got another, kind of audit comment

823
00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:57,560
Have you ever listened to the Don and Drew show?

824
00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:02,060
I've only heard clips from New Yorkshire, I had not listened to it yet.

825
00:41:02,060 --> 00:41:03,060
That's funny, man.

826
00:41:03,060 --> 00:41:04,560
You really have listened to it.

827
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:05,560
Yeah, it's funny.

828
00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:10,060
You know, they wind up talking about how, you know, Dawn is saying, okay.

829
00:41:10,060 --> 00:41:13,060
So when you sit down to pee, you know, does your wiener get wet?

830
00:41:13,060 --> 00:41:15,560
And it's like, it's like, and they're really honest.

831
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:16,560
These are really honest ones.

832
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:18,560
He was a question thought everybody's mind, right?

833
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:20,560
I mean, yeah, I guess so.

834
00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:24,560
You know, it would have been a war in Iraq if we knew the answer is out.

835
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:26,560
Hold on.

836
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:29,560
Here's a comment, Drew sent in.

837
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:33,560
Actually, it was probably for the source code, but since this is my recording

838
00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:35,560
Venture for today, we'll use it here.

839
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:38,560
Hey, Adam, it's Drew from the Dawn and Drew show.

840
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:42,560
I just, that I try out this audio comment type of thing.

841
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:45,560
It just seems like the cool thing to do these days.

842
00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:50,560
But I was checking out your podcast today and you were referencing

843
00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:51,560
What's this name?

844
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:53,560
Go Hagen.

845
00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:55,560
He doesn't for us.

846
00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:57,560
Yeah, Adam, it's Michael Go Hagen.

847
00:41:57,560 --> 00:41:58,560
Michael Go Hagen.

848
00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:00,560
Okay, here's some feedback.

849
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:04,560
Michael Go Hagen, he had, you know, he was mentioning the whole genre thing.

850
00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:08,560
And I just thought that was really interesting because I hadn't really

851
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:10,560
realized that it was even an issue.

852
00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:12,560
I had been doing it since the,

853
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:14,560
I think I did it from like the third show.

854
00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:18,560
I started adding all the metadata and then I went back in and

855
00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:21,560
read it all the metadata, even back to the very first show.

856
00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:25,560
But he grabs all of them as it was going through the metadata,

857
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:27,560
the ID3 tags inside iTunes.

858
00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:30,560
I realized that you could type in the genre tag.

859
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:32,560
So I just went ahead and put podcast.

860
00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:34,560
And I've been doing it ever since.

861
00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:37,560
And I just think it's, you know, it's pretty cool that I was just like

862
00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:41,560
forcing that genre upon anybody and everybody's iTunes.

863
00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:45,560
So interesting that, you know, that was what you guys are talking about.

864
00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:48,560
And, you know, I'd been doing that and not that I'm like the pioneers

865
00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:49,560
that or anything.

866
00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:50,560
I just think it's cool.

867
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:52,560
I think it's totally appropriate.

868
00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:57,560
And we should definitely force our agenda on the masses.

869
00:42:57,560 --> 00:42:59,560
So yeah, hey, awesome show.

870
00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:03,560
Thanks again for, I mean, you inadvertently plugged our show again

871
00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:06,560
by playing that podcast from Canada.

872
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:07,560
All right.

873
00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:10,560
So then he goes on to thank me profusely.

874
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:12,560
But these are just users, man.

875
00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:15,560
These are just people who are just digging you doing this.

876
00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:17,560
You got to be careful.

877
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:20,560
I found out the back calling people users.

878
00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:22,560
They think they don't like it.

879
00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:24,560
I would like to see themselves.

880
00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:25,560
Yeah.

881
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:27,560
They don't necessarily see themselves that way.

882
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:29,560
The other thing I was thinking about is listening.

883
00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:31,560
I didn't hear most of what he said.

884
00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:33,560
Because the assistants are getting ready.

885
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:34,560
Yeah, okay.

886
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:36,560
You must be doing an iPod or skin right now.

887
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:37,560
No, I have everything off.

888
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:39,560
I've almost shared drugs or disconnected.

889
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:41,560
I'm standing on a list.

890
00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:42,560
I'm probably doing one there.

891
00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:43,560
Yeah, you probably.

892
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:46,560
You're aggregating your aggregator's sucking shit down.

893
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:51,560
I think Adam, it's getting pretty close to time for some awards.

894
00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:55,560
Yeah, I think you're home page.

895
00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:57,560
That's the thing.

896
00:43:57,560 --> 00:43:59,560
Well, now I'm not saying this is just, you know.

897
00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:03,560
The reason is that people mostly, we talk about this with developers, right?

898
00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:05,560
You know, what a developers want.

899
00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:08,560
90% of what a developer wants is to be appreciated.

900
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:11,560
That's part of knowledge to be seen.

901
00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:18,560
You know, it's a visibility through their creativity, which is the best way for somebody to be visible.

902
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:21,560
You know, you don't want somebody to be, then,

903
00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:25,560
to have to create visibility by, you know, flaming you on a mail list.

904
00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:26,560
Right?

905
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:27,560
Right.

906
00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:30,560
So, you know, so we're still in good viable hands here.

907
00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:33,560
And maybe we can figure out a way, you know,

908
00:44:33,560 --> 00:44:36,560
can't just be, you know, I don't know how we do it.

909
00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:39,560
But it'd be great to sort of give everybody

910
00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:42,560
who's done a podcast right now,

911
00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:47,560
some way of being part of something, like an initiation or, you know,

912
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:49,560
because these are the good energy people.

913
00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:52,560
These are people who are going to remember when it was wonderful.

914
00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:55,560
National association of hardcasters.

915
00:44:56,560 --> 00:44:57,560
That's not the, M.A.

916
00:44:57,560 --> 00:44:59,560
M.A.

917
00:44:59,560 --> 00:45:00,560
M.A.

918
00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:01,560
M.A.

919
00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:02,560
M.A.

920
00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:03,560
M.A.

921
00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:04,560
M.A.

922
00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:06,560
I'm going to the map for the meeting.

923
00:45:06,560 --> 00:45:07,560
That's a big show.

924
00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:08,560
No.

925
00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:09,560
Left work out.

926
00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:10,560
Yeah.

927
00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:14,560
What are you doing at or around bloggerCon or how it has to happen after bloggerCon?

928
00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:15,560
Because that's okay.

929
00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:16,560
That's okay.

930
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:17,560
Okay.

931
00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:18,560
We're going to have a podcast.

932
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:20,560
This is what Doug K asked for.

933
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:21,560
We got to do it.

934
00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:23,560
We're going to have a podcast just in our side.

935
00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:24,560
There you go.

936
00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:25,560
Okay.

937
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:26,560
Yeah.

938
00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:28,560
It'll be a good podcast.

939
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:32,560
It'll be recorded about 80,000 different ways.

940
00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:36,560
No doubt they'll be a record of that one.

941
00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:38,560
It's like a jambory on the air.

942
00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:39,560
Everybody.

943
00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:40,560
Everybody.

944
00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:41,560
Everybody.

945
00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:42,560
I have a question for you.

946
00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:43,560
I gotta ask you this.

947
00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:49,560
You were going about your college radio experience saying,

948
00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:51,560
Everybody.

949
00:45:51,560 --> 00:45:52,560
Everybody.

950
00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:53,560
Everybody.

951
00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:54,560
Everybody.

952
00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:55,560
Right.

953
00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:57,560
Where the fuck does that come from?

954
00:45:57,560 --> 00:45:58,560
Well, what happens a lot?

955
00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:00,560
How would stir that way of pronouncing it?

956
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:02,560
Oh, that way of pronouncing it?

957
00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:03,560
Yeah.

958
00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:09,560
It's because that is a takeoff of a takeoff of a takeoff on the way old fashioned

959
00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:14,560
announcers talk and what you notice in the radio business.

960
00:46:15,560 --> 00:46:18,560
Guys, on the real radio, not podcasting with broadcasting.

961
00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:22,560
They're always, you know, you'll set stand next to them in the studio and listen.

962
00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:24,560
They're screaming most of them like everybody.

963
00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:25,560
It's a W-T-Z-E-1 100.

964
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:26,560
We'll take all the 100 out.

965
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:28,560
What did it do for D-Z-1 100?

966
00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:30,560
That's from D-E-1 100.

967
00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:31,560
Right.

968
00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:32,560
So.

969
00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:33,560
I've had this.

970
00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:34,560
I've had this.

971
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:35,560
I've had this.

972
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:36,560
Wait, hold on a bit.

973
00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:37,560
While I regain my exposure.

974
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:38,560
Right.

975
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:40,560
Well, so then the other one is.

976
00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:45,560
107.5 W-L-T-W playing the best of the set.

977
00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:47,560
Yeah, like the eighties and the nineties.

978
00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:48,560
We're the mix.

979
00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:49,560
Yeah.

980
00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:50,560
I can do that one.

981
00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:51,560
Yeah.

982
00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:53,560
Sports on W-T-W.

983
00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:54,560
Yeah.

984
00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:56,560
No, that had to be kind of like the muffled microphone.

985
00:46:56,560 --> 00:46:59,560
It was like Jonathan Schwartz on W-N-E-W.

986
00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:00,560
That's him.

987
00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:01,560
No, you're overdoing it.

988
00:47:01,560 --> 00:47:03,560
He was the focus and seeer.

989
00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:05,560
He was sort of like your best friend,

990
00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:07,560
but the best friend of your girlfriend.

991
00:47:07,560 --> 00:47:08,560
Right.

992
00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:11,560
So he would like, he could do the trade secrets.

993
00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:14,560
I mean, you know, he would get the idea that he knew how to get the chicks.

994
00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:16,560
So you wanted to do a little trick.

995
00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:18,560
You wanted to do a little trick to figure out how to do it.

996
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:20,560
So that you could get some kids.

997
00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:23,560
Well, so what I think it all happened.

998
00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:28,560
How would Stern really brought that into the front of the media

999
00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:33,560
when Hank Kingsley from Larry Sanders show.

1000
00:47:33,560 --> 00:47:34,560
Hey, now.

1001
00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:35,560
Hank Kingsley.

1002
00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:39,560
Yeah, it's time for Larry Sanders.

1003
00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:42,560
And so Howard Stern started doing a lot of that.

1004
00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:46,560
But in the meantime, at radio station, this has been this way forever,

1005
00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:49,560
since I guess, you know, a rock and roll radio started.

1006
00:47:49,560 --> 00:47:52,560
Guys who weren't on the radio.

1007
00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:56,560
So like the program director and the managing or the general manager,

1008
00:47:56,560 --> 00:48:00,560
or the music director, they all, you know, have this like special

1009
00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:03,560
little language that they speak with the air talent,

1010
00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:07,560
often like the morning show guy who might also be the program director.

1011
00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:08,560
And then, I'll talk about it.

1012
00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:12,560
Hey, man, man, man, man, man we got good ready season, man, man.

1013
00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:13,560
Yeah, man, man, man.

1014
00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:15,560
I'm, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, because, you know,

1015
00:48:15,560 --> 00:48:17,560
world, such intradable communicators.

1016
00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:20,560
We have, we have our own little special short hand, and, and ask anyone

1017
00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:22,560
in radio, they'll confirm this.

1018
00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:24,560
It's, it's horrible.

1019
00:48:24,560 --> 00:48:27,560
So, you know, you just get into the habit of just

1020
00:48:27,560 --> 00:48:30,560
slipping into it, and, you know, the automatic thing is,

1021
00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:32,000
Did I ever bought a hanging nail?

1022
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:34,000
I'm dead Marna!

1023
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:35,400
That's so.

1024
00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:37,400
That's great.

1025
00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:40,840
But listen to the radio, and that's the difference

1026
00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:43,040
between radio broadcasts and podcasts.

1027
00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:44,440
That's the first thing you hear.

1028
00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:46,520
That's why I say it's like college radio,

1029
00:48:46,520 --> 00:48:48,240
which was incredibly cool, man.

1030
00:48:48,240 --> 00:48:50,680
You get listen to college radio back in the 80s.

1031
00:48:50,680 --> 00:48:51,680
That's where it was happening.

1032
00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:52,680
That's where it was.

1033
00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:55,360
That's where the REM came from, you know.

1034
00:48:55,360 --> 00:49:00,160
Well, I did actually listen to FM radio when I was in San Francisco

1035
00:49:01,120 --> 00:49:02,560
and it was actually kind of nice.

1036
00:49:02,560 --> 00:49:06,680
There's a station called KFRC, which is oldies format.

1037
00:49:06,680 --> 00:49:09,920
And they played since I was a hadn't heard in a long time.

1038
00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:10,760
Right.

1039
00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:12,200
That's what I like that.

1040
00:49:12,200 --> 00:49:13,200
It's nice, you know.

1041
00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:18,040
They played a song called Those Were The Days, Those Were The Days,

1042
00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:20,480
My friend, I love the name.

1043
00:49:20,480 --> 00:49:21,680
We thought it's a right.

1044
00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:24,360
It turns out that I made an answer came on and explained

1045
00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:26,840
that it was a Russian song.

1046
00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:27,680
Yes.

1047
00:49:27,680 --> 00:49:29,280
I think the name was Hopkins, Mary Hopkins.

1048
00:49:30,240 --> 00:49:32,840
And that was a wonderful song.

1049
00:49:32,840 --> 00:49:35,720
So, you know, I was like, I sat there at the parking lot.

1050
00:49:35,720 --> 00:49:36,720
I listened to the song.

1051
00:49:36,720 --> 00:49:38,720
And I just listened to that.

1052
00:49:38,720 --> 00:49:39,320
Cheers.

1053
00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:41,160
You know, I was just said, because it's true.

1054
00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:43,520
Those were the days we thought they'd never end.

1055
00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:45,520
You know, we were young.

1056
00:49:45,520 --> 00:49:46,720
We're getting close better.

1057
00:49:46,720 --> 00:49:47,720
Get a damn close.

1058
00:49:47,720 --> 00:49:48,960
Oh, man.

1059
00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:49,720
Dammit.

1060
00:49:49,720 --> 00:49:52,520
You mentioned that which I'd known, what?

1061
00:49:52,520 --> 00:49:55,120
I go ahead, do you wish it known what?

1062
00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:56,800
I wish I'd known then what I know now.

1063
00:49:56,800 --> 00:49:57,800
You know what?

1064
00:49:57,800 --> 00:49:58,320
Yeah.

1065
00:49:58,360 --> 00:49:59,160
Sure.

1066
00:49:59,160 --> 00:50:00,160
Sure.

1067
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:01,720
I mean, yesterday, on the source code,

1068
00:50:01,720 --> 00:50:04,400
I played Frank Sinatra, comply with me.

1069
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:05,400
Yeah.

1070
00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:07,480
So, here's something really weird.

1071
00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:11,440
Today, in slips, my, into my iPod or so,

1072
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:14,280
I actually check that on iTunes.

1073
00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:18,040
The latest Geekspeak, which is the, the gamer Geeks

1074
00:50:18,040 --> 00:50:19,560
who have podcast.

1075
00:50:19,560 --> 00:50:20,080
Yeah.

1076
00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:21,360
Check them out what they started with.

1077
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:22,960
This is, it freaked me out.

1078
00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:25,720
And it took me a second, and I won't let you hit

1079
00:50:25,720 --> 00:50:28,040
the whole thing, but you'll understand.

1080
00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:30,680
Fly me to the moon.

1081
00:50:30,680 --> 00:50:31,680
Yeah.

1082
00:50:31,680 --> 00:50:33,680
That's how they started.

1083
00:50:33,680 --> 00:50:36,280
Listen, I can tell you didn't read scripting music yesterday,

1084
00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:37,640
because, yeah, I did.

1085
00:50:37,640 --> 00:50:38,480
I did.

1086
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:39,320
I did.

1087
00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:39,960
Oh, you did.

1088
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:40,680
Yeah.

1089
00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:41,520
You did.

1090
00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:44,120
I'm waiting for you to tell me the story.

1091
00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:44,960
What?

1092
00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:46,880
I'm waiting for you to tell the story.

1093
00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:47,400
Oh, yeah.

1094
00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:49,960
I was getting off the tram at SFO.

1095
00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:53,040
Listening to the daily source code.

1096
00:50:53,040 --> 00:50:54,840
I had just, you know, returned my rental car

1097
00:50:54,840 --> 00:50:58,200
going to the terminal, and Adam Seussville, I'm going to

1098
00:50:58,200 --> 00:51:01,400
please sign, and the song comes on as I'm going down.

1099
00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:04,200
It says, welcome to San Francisco International.

1100
00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:06,280
And it's, uh, come fly with me.

1101
00:51:06,280 --> 00:51:07,280
Got that.

1102
00:51:07,280 --> 00:51:09,080
And I go, fuck, I'm going flying.

1103
00:51:09,080 --> 00:51:10,080
Got it.

1104
00:51:10,080 --> 00:51:11,080
All right.

1105
00:51:11,080 --> 00:51:12,080
Not bad.

1106
00:51:12,080 --> 00:51:13,080
Everybody.

1107
00:51:13,080 --> 00:51:13,920
Everybody.

1108
00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:14,720
They're revolving.

1109
00:51:14,720 --> 00:51:15,720
Yeah.

1110
00:51:15,720 --> 00:51:17,960
They're on the other side of everybody.

1111
00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:19,960
He's from Seattle, Washington.

1112
00:51:19,960 --> 00:51:21,200
And that was a winner of their game.

1113
00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:22,200
Yeah.

1114
00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:23,200
Yeah.

1115
00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:27,480
Listen to the radio and you're going to start noticing this.

1116
00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:29,800
You will start noticing how these guys talk.

1117
00:51:29,800 --> 00:51:31,720
You know, it's, you know, it's, you know, and they're so

1118
00:51:31,720 --> 00:51:34,120
cookie cutter, always in the, in the middle of the day,

1119
00:51:34,120 --> 00:51:35,720
there's always the midday girl.

1120
00:51:35,720 --> 00:51:37,520
There's always, that's when the women are always on.

1121
00:51:37,520 --> 00:51:40,160
Has to be, you know, midday is after the morning show

1122
00:51:40,160 --> 00:51:41,320
and before afternoon drive.

1123
00:51:41,320 --> 00:51:43,320
So it kind of carries you over.

1124
00:51:43,320 --> 00:51:45,960
And, uh, and it's for housewives.

1125
00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:47,200
That's why they always put women there.

1126
00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:49,200
It's like, actually, when I was a kid,

1127
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:53,440
any WFM, which was my station, had Alice and Steel.

1128
00:51:53,440 --> 00:51:54,440
Alice and Steel.

1129
00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:54,920
Yeah.

1130
00:51:54,920 --> 00:51:55,720
Alice and Steel.

1131
00:51:55,720 --> 00:51:57,120
You know, I heard, right.

1132
00:51:57,120 --> 00:51:57,720
Yeah.

1133
00:51:57,720 --> 00:51:58,920
The night bird, exactly.

1134
00:51:58,920 --> 00:52:01,080
As she would be on like a 2 a.m.

1135
00:52:01,080 --> 00:52:01,920
Yeah.

1136
00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:05,320
And, uh, and, uh, and he'd go, oh my God, she must be a mysterious woman.

1137
00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:06,440
She's on it 2 a.m.

1138
00:52:06,440 --> 00:52:06,640
Yeah.

1139
00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:09,200
The perfect face for radio, my friend.

1140
00:52:09,200 --> 00:52:09,880
Yeah.

1141
00:52:09,880 --> 00:52:14,640
See, and the other, and then she used to play, um,

1142
00:52:14,640 --> 00:52:16,320
there was a song that forget who sang it.

1143
00:52:16,320 --> 00:52:18,840
It was called, I usually like it much better in the morning.

1144
00:52:18,840 --> 00:52:19,680
Yeah.

1145
00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:24,000
And it was a woman, a woman singing that, and maybe you could find that somewhere.

1146
00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:25,680
It was really something like it so much better.

1147
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:27,480
I'll have to look at it for it later.

1148
00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:30,720
I like it much better in the morning, which was an unusual thought to me.

1149
00:52:30,720 --> 00:52:32,920
You know, because, whatever, I was passionate, obviously.

1150
00:52:32,920 --> 00:52:34,080
I was 16 years old.

1151
00:52:34,080 --> 00:52:35,080
Yeah.

1152
00:52:35,080 --> 00:52:36,960
Yeah, you were listening to the night bird.

1153
00:52:36,960 --> 00:52:39,240
And seeing, uh, here's the generation gap, Dave.

1154
00:52:39,240 --> 00:52:43,640
When I moved to New York in, uh, 87, and I was 20 something,

1155
00:52:43,640 --> 00:52:46,360
we had Robin Bird on Channel J.

1156
00:52:47,560 --> 00:52:48,240
Oh, God.

1157
00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:49,680
Have you ever seen her?

1158
00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:54,520
Because, yeah, that's the faint echo of what I was talking about.

1159
00:52:54,520 --> 00:52:55,400
It's my baby bag.

1160
00:52:55,400 --> 00:52:56,320
It's my box.

1161
00:52:56,320 --> 00:52:57,400
Come on, baby bag.

1162
00:52:57,400 --> 00:52:58,040
My box.

1163
00:52:58,040 --> 00:52:59,280
You can bang my box.

1164
00:52:59,280 --> 00:53:00,280
That was a great show.

1165
00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:01,880
I love that show.

1166
00:53:01,880 --> 00:53:04,800
Listen, when I noticed it was going on with Jonathan Schwartz,

1167
00:53:04,800 --> 00:53:07,080
and Scott Meaney was another one.

1168
00:53:07,080 --> 00:53:07,880
Yeah, Scott Meaney.

1169
00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:08,080
You need that.

1170
00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:08,920
You need that.

1171
00:53:08,920 --> 00:53:11,000
Yeah, we're hippies in the East Village.

1172
00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:12,880
You know, they were long-haired hippies.

1173
00:53:12,880 --> 00:53:14,840
Just like they were in Hadesburg.

1174
00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:17,720
K-Fog was, I don't know, I don't know anything about

1175
00:53:17,720 --> 00:53:19,280
San Francisco radio, zero.

1176
00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:21,960
Docs, sirals, and I was one of these things about San Francisco radio.

1177
00:53:21,960 --> 00:53:23,160
Well, yeah, he does.

1178
00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:26,400
There's two stations in San Francisco Bay Area that were seven,

1179
00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:27,280
all made a big difference.

1180
00:53:27,280 --> 00:53:30,520
At least as far as I know, were K-Fog, which is still there.

1181
00:53:30,520 --> 00:53:33,520
And that was a progressive rock, uh, you know,

1182
00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:34,800
the equivalent of WWW.

1183
00:53:34,800 --> 00:53:36,240
And then it was K-Pig.

1184
00:53:36,240 --> 00:53:37,080
K-Pig.

1185
00:53:37,080 --> 00:53:38,040
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1186
00:53:38,040 --> 00:53:39,040
Not quite the right idea.

1187
00:53:39,040 --> 00:53:40,040
I think they were.

1188
00:53:40,040 --> 00:53:41,040
They had a string.

1189
00:53:41,040 --> 00:53:41,920
They went for a long time.

1190
00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:42,760
But they still streamed.

1191
00:53:42,760 --> 00:53:44,520
They were like one of the big things I don't know,

1192
00:53:44,520 --> 00:53:47,680
but they were still there when I moved to the Bay Area.

1193
00:53:47,680 --> 00:53:48,920
In 79.

1194
00:53:48,920 --> 00:53:50,240
And I lived in Las Cadas.

1195
00:53:50,240 --> 00:53:52,760
That was the first place I lived.

1196
00:53:52,760 --> 00:53:53,600
They were close.

1197
00:53:53,600 --> 00:53:57,560
I was close enough to Gilroy to actually pick up K-Pig and it was great.

1198
00:53:57,560 --> 00:53:58,240
I couldn't believe it.

1199
00:53:58,240 --> 00:53:59,960
They were playing things like little feet, you know,

1200
00:53:59,960 --> 00:54:00,800
little right.

1201
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:01,800
One of my favorite things.

1202
00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:02,800
Right.

1203
00:54:02,800 --> 00:54:06,840
And, you know, they played the, they played the dead.

1204
00:54:06,840 --> 00:54:11,040
They played all the, all the sort of stuff he never heard on FM radio.

1205
00:54:11,040 --> 00:54:11,960
Of course, they were too good.

1206
00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:14,240
I guess to last the Docs, you know, we'll talk about that.

1207
00:54:14,240 --> 00:54:17,000
I'm sure Doc will be there at, uh, at our time.

1208
00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:20,000
I mean, we got to do so many podcasts when we're, when we're at blogger

1209
00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:21,000
content.

1210
00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:22,640
I'm just looking forward to putting cool stuff to go.

1211
00:54:22,640 --> 00:54:25,200
Chris Biden did that at the, uh, first blogger content.

1212
00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:26,200
He did.

1213
00:54:26,200 --> 00:54:27,200
It was really good.

1214
00:54:27,200 --> 00:54:28,200
It was very good.

1215
00:54:28,200 --> 00:54:29,200
In fact, he interviewed you.

1216
00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:30,200
Yeah.

1217
00:54:30,200 --> 00:54:31,200
We should dig that one up.

1218
00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:32,200
We should dig that one up.

1219
00:54:32,200 --> 00:54:35,200
And who else did the interview that was really good?

1220
00:54:35,200 --> 00:54:36,200
K-Rose.

1221
00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:37,200
Yeah, you were.

1222
00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:38,200
K-Rose.

1223
00:54:38,200 --> 00:54:43,200
K-Rose is podcast or we didn't call on podcast, but I remember going, okay.

1224
00:54:43,200 --> 00:54:44,200
Webcast.

1225
00:54:44,200 --> 00:54:46,200
We told him for some reason.

1226
00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:47,200
I'm so glad that.

1227
00:54:47,200 --> 00:54:48,200
They were cast from the web.

1228
00:54:48,200 --> 00:54:49,200
I don't remember.

1229
00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:52,200
We'll have to go back and listen to see what we call them, but, uh, you know, Chris

1230
00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:56,440
did some, I mean, that was the first time I heard Daily Costs, and he interviewed

1231
00:54:56,440 --> 00:54:57,440
Daily Costs.

1232
00:54:57,440 --> 00:54:58,440
Right.

1233
00:54:58,440 --> 00:54:59,440
He did.

1234
00:54:59,440 --> 00:55:02,200
Julie Powell from, uh, hold on a second day.

1235
00:55:02,200 --> 00:55:03,440
My cat is freaking out.

1236
00:55:03,440 --> 00:55:04,440
Hold on.

1237
00:55:04,440 --> 00:55:05,440
I got to go.

1238
00:55:05,440 --> 00:55:06,440
Let the cat in.

1239
00:55:06,440 --> 00:55:07,440
Come in.

1240
00:55:07,440 --> 00:55:08,440
Come in, baby.

1241
00:55:08,440 --> 00:55:09,440
Come in.

1242
00:55:09,440 --> 00:55:10,440
Everybody.

1243
00:55:10,440 --> 00:55:11,440
Everybody.

1244
00:55:11,440 --> 00:55:12,440
Get out of my cell.

1245
00:55:12,440 --> 00:55:13,440
Get out of my cell.

1246
00:55:13,440 --> 00:55:14,440
Get out of my cell.

1247
00:55:14,440 --> 00:55:15,440
Yeah.

1248
00:55:15,440 --> 00:55:16,440
Go.

1249
00:55:16,440 --> 00:55:17,440
Yeah.

1250
00:55:17,440 --> 00:55:22,040
Maybe someday we should do a trade secret that's like, well, I can't be a secret to

1251
00:55:22,040 --> 00:55:23,040
the message.

1252
00:55:23,040 --> 00:55:24,040
They have wireless microphones.

1253
00:55:24,040 --> 00:55:25,040
Yeah, I'm back.

1254
00:55:25,040 --> 00:55:27,040
But no wireless speakers.

1255
00:55:27,040 --> 00:55:28,040
Yeah.

1256
00:55:28,040 --> 00:55:29,040
Okay.

1257
00:55:29,040 --> 00:55:32,280
So I was telling the people about how someday we ought to do the domestic trade

1258
00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:36,080
secrets where basically all we do is just clean the house and flush the door.

1259
00:55:36,320 --> 00:55:37,080
Yeah.

1260
00:55:37,080 --> 00:55:39,080
Reality radio.

1261
00:55:39,080 --> 00:55:43,080
Maybe you can leave it running well.

1262
00:55:43,080 --> 00:55:44,080
I go shopping.

1263
00:55:44,080 --> 00:55:49,080
It's the boner cast.

1264
00:55:49,080 --> 00:55:50,080
Lovely.

1265
00:55:50,080 --> 00:55:52,080
So yeah.

1266
00:55:52,080 --> 00:55:54,080
I had dinner with Steve Gilmore.

1267
00:55:54,080 --> 00:55:55,080
That's one thing I was talking about.

1268
00:55:55,080 --> 00:55:56,080
Less time.

1269
00:55:56,080 --> 00:55:57,080
Or the night before.

1270
00:55:57,080 --> 00:55:58,080
No.

1271
00:55:58,080 --> 00:55:59,080
Night before.

1272
00:55:59,080 --> 00:56:00,080
Yeah.

1273
00:56:00,080 --> 00:56:01,080
It was night before.

1274
00:56:01,080 --> 00:56:02,080
Yeah.

1275
00:56:02,080 --> 00:56:03,080
And.

1276
00:56:03,080 --> 00:56:04,080
He said.

1277
00:56:04,080 --> 00:56:05,080
Can't wait to meet him.

1278
00:56:06,080 --> 00:56:07,080
Yeah, I asked him to see it.

1279
00:56:07,080 --> 00:56:08,080
I met you.

1280
00:56:08,080 --> 00:56:09,080
He said he had.

1281
00:56:09,080 --> 00:56:10,080
And.

1282
00:56:10,080 --> 00:56:12,080
He says what we're doing is a comedy show here.

1283
00:56:12,080 --> 00:56:14,080
Oh, then we can get a listing under the comedy.

1284
00:56:14,080 --> 00:56:17,080
Note in the directory, which is maintained by someone else.

1285
00:56:17,080 --> 00:56:19,080
I'll have to submit a link.

1286
00:56:19,080 --> 00:56:21,080
You'll have to get down on your hand.

1287
00:56:21,080 --> 00:56:22,080
I will.

1288
00:56:22,080 --> 00:56:23,080
Please add us to your.

1289
00:56:23,080 --> 00:56:24,080
Please.

1290
00:56:24,080 --> 00:56:25,080
Please.

1291
00:56:25,080 --> 00:56:26,080
Please.

1292
00:56:26,080 --> 00:56:27,080
No.

1293
00:56:27,080 --> 00:56:28,080
Please.

1294
00:56:28,080 --> 00:56:30,080
By flowers and tell them how much you love them.

1295
00:56:30,080 --> 00:56:31,080
Yeah.

1296
00:56:31,080 --> 00:56:32,080
The way she heard or whatever.

1297
00:56:33,080 --> 00:56:34,080
I said flowers.

1298
00:56:34,080 --> 00:56:36,080
Tell them that you really care.

1299
00:56:36,080 --> 00:56:37,080
I love you.

1300
00:56:37,080 --> 00:56:38,080
And I love it.

1301
00:56:38,080 --> 00:56:40,080
And I really care.

1302
00:56:40,080 --> 00:56:41,080
Right.

1303
00:56:41,080 --> 00:56:42,080
So what else is Steve's?

1304
00:56:42,080 --> 00:56:43,080
I can't wait to meet Steve.

1305
00:56:43,080 --> 00:56:46,080
Because he's been such a tremendous driving force.

1306
00:56:46,080 --> 00:56:48,080
And at the end of every single.

1307
00:56:48,080 --> 00:56:49,080
Gilmore gang boy.

1308
00:56:49,080 --> 00:56:52,080
If he doesn't come out and just plug podcasting some more.

1309
00:56:52,080 --> 00:56:54,080
It was really great.

1310
00:56:54,080 --> 00:56:57,080
I was listening to the interview with Kim Collision.

1311
00:56:57,080 --> 00:56:58,080
And.

1312
00:56:58,080 --> 00:56:59,080
Collision.

1313
00:56:59,080 --> 00:57:00,080
Collision.

1314
00:57:00,080 --> 00:57:01,080
And.

1315
00:57:02,080 --> 00:57:05,080
You know, I wanted them to ask her question that they didn't ask.

1316
00:57:05,080 --> 00:57:07,080
You know, if she was always talking about walking.

1317
00:57:07,080 --> 00:57:08,080
I don't know if she listened to you.

1318
00:57:08,080 --> 00:57:09,080
Yeah.

1319
00:57:09,080 --> 00:57:10,080
I listened to the whole thing.

1320
00:57:10,080 --> 00:57:12,080
It was extremely difficult times.

1321
00:57:12,080 --> 00:57:13,080
Yeah.

1322
00:57:13,080 --> 00:57:14,080
Why was it difficult?

1323
00:57:14,080 --> 00:57:16,080
Well, because I got the idea.

1324
00:57:16,080 --> 00:57:17,080
You know, and I just hear.

1325
00:57:17,080 --> 00:57:19,080
Oh, I hear a lot of marketing speak after a while.

1326
00:57:19,080 --> 00:57:20,080
You know, I just get tired of it.

1327
00:57:20,080 --> 00:57:21,080
You know, I get it.

1328
00:57:21,080 --> 00:57:22,080
You know, I get it.

1329
00:57:22,080 --> 00:57:24,080
You're providing service to open source.

1330
00:57:24,080 --> 00:57:26,080
You know, stacks that you'll sell.

1331
00:57:26,080 --> 00:57:27,080
I get it.

1332
00:57:27,080 --> 00:57:28,080
It's great.

1333
00:57:28,080 --> 00:57:29,080
There's companies doing that.

1334
00:57:29,080 --> 00:57:30,080
They're going to be more.

1335
00:57:30,080 --> 00:57:32,080
And this is probably going to be a really good one.

1336
00:57:32,080 --> 00:57:34,080
Well, there's a geek fascination with Kim.

1337
00:57:34,080 --> 00:57:35,080
You got to understand.

1338
00:57:35,080 --> 00:57:36,080
She can really talk to it.

1339
00:57:36,080 --> 00:57:37,080
Anything she wants.

1340
00:57:37,080 --> 00:57:38,080
Just too.

1341
00:57:38,080 --> 00:57:39,080
Yeah.

1342
00:57:39,080 --> 00:57:40,080
And you guys go, oh, really.

1343
00:57:40,080 --> 00:57:41,080
Oh, that's fascinating.

1344
00:57:41,080 --> 00:57:42,080
Boy.

1345
00:57:42,080 --> 00:57:43,080
Boy.

1346
00:57:43,080 --> 00:57:44,080
Boy.

1347
00:57:44,080 --> 00:57:45,080
Boy.

1348
00:57:45,080 --> 00:57:46,080
Boy.

1349
00:57:46,080 --> 00:57:47,080
Boy.

1350
00:57:47,080 --> 00:57:48,080
Boy.

1351
00:57:48,080 --> 00:57:49,080
Boy.

1352
00:57:49,080 --> 00:57:50,080
Boy.

1353
00:57:50,080 --> 00:57:51,080
Boy.

1354
00:57:51,080 --> 00:57:52,080
Boy.

1355
00:57:52,080 --> 00:57:53,080
Boy.

1356
00:57:53,080 --> 00:57:54,080
Boy.

1357
00:57:54,080 --> 00:57:55,080
Boy.

1358
00:57:55,080 --> 00:57:56,080
Boy.

1359
00:57:56,080 --> 00:57:57,080
Yeah, and this is what I know.

1360
00:57:57,080 --> 00:58:05,400
It's on her mind and it's really great moment in there.

1361
00:58:05,400 --> 00:58:08,760
Where, um, at the end, you know, compelling it.

1362
00:58:08,760 --> 00:58:15,460
She apparently had given a speech at this invitation only $2400 visae confidence on boxing,

1363
00:58:15,460 --> 00:58:18,760
which, by the way, it was like a Republican confidence on the environment.

1364
00:58:18,760 --> 00:58:19,760
Yeah.

1365
00:58:19,760 --> 00:58:20,760
I read the quote on Sl everlasting news.

1366
00:58:20,760 --> 00:58:21,760
That was funny.

1367
00:58:21,760 --> 00:58:22,760
Yeah.

1368
00:58:22,760 --> 00:58:23,760
Got a lot of play, of course.

1369
00:58:23,760 --> 00:58:25,780
And actually, I actually go to a response from

1370
00:58:25,780 --> 00:58:30,980
from a venture capitalist on that, and a friend of mine, Hank Barry, and the conversation

1371
00:58:30,980 --> 00:58:35,780
turned in very interesting directions, you know, actually, he came out and visited us.

1372
00:58:35,780 --> 00:58:41,780
Anyway, at the end, they asked, so Kim's speech was, apparently, was a lot about, you know,

1373
00:58:41,780 --> 00:58:46,780
podcasting and blogging and RSS, and, you know, obviously, we think it's so cool, you know,

1374
00:58:46,780 --> 00:58:50,780
which don't seem to have anything to do with us doing, right, open source stuff.

1375
00:58:50,780 --> 00:58:51,780
Right.

1376
00:58:51,780 --> 00:58:52,780
Yeah.

1377
00:58:52,780 --> 00:58:53,780
Well, yeah.

1378
00:58:53,780 --> 00:58:54,780
That's a good casting.

1379
00:58:54,780 --> 00:58:55,780
We have a new one, ladies and gentlemen.

1380
00:58:55,780 --> 00:58:57,780
We're going to bring you stuff.

1381
00:58:57,780 --> 00:58:58,780
Casting about it.

1382
00:58:58,780 --> 00:58:59,780
Yeah.

1383
00:58:59,780 --> 00:59:00,780
Pretty soon.

1384
00:59:00,780 --> 00:59:01,780
Yeah.

1385
00:59:01,780 --> 00:59:03,780
It's in the queue right now.

1386
00:59:03,780 --> 00:59:06,780
So they asked her about that, and Kim, she just flew it up.

1387
00:59:06,780 --> 00:59:08,780
It's like, oh, this is all the cool shit blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

1388
00:59:08,780 --> 00:59:09,780
There you go.

1389
00:59:09,780 --> 00:59:10,780
Okay.

1390
00:59:10,780 --> 00:59:11,780
That's cool.

1391
00:59:11,780 --> 00:59:12,780
How did that happen?

1392
00:59:12,780 --> 00:59:13,780
Why isn't she doing all that stuff, you know?

1393
00:59:13,780 --> 00:59:14,780
I don't know.

1394
00:59:14,780 --> 00:59:15,780
She shouldn't be.

1395
00:59:15,780 --> 00:59:17,780
It's probably, it's a venture capital thing.

1396
00:59:17,780 --> 00:59:20,780
It's another one of those where probably they had a CEO for this company, the client

1397
00:59:20,780 --> 00:59:21,780
or Perkins guys.

1398
00:59:21,780 --> 00:59:22,780
And something happened.

1399
00:59:22,780 --> 00:59:23,780
He blew it all up.

1400
00:59:23,780 --> 00:59:24,780
He blew it all up.

1401
00:59:24,780 --> 00:59:31,780
Or the entrepreneur was said he could be the CEO and eventually wore him down and Kim's

1402
00:59:31,780 --> 00:59:32,780
to be couldn't.

1403
00:59:32,780 --> 00:59:37,780
And Kim Kim, it's Kim like the, the, the stand by CEO and residents of us.

1404
00:59:37,780 --> 00:59:39,780
There's no, there's no, there's no stand by.

1405
00:59:39,780 --> 00:59:41,780
They have a stable of them.

1406
00:59:41,780 --> 00:59:43,780
It's, it's the way the system works.

1407
00:59:43,780 --> 00:59:44,780
Yeah.

1408
00:59:44,780 --> 00:59:49,780
Basically, they move you out of one company and then you get, you get a hangout until, you know,

1409
00:59:49,780 --> 00:59:51,780
it may keep showing you companies until you're okay.

1410
00:59:51,780 --> 00:59:52,780
I like that one.

1411
00:59:52,780 --> 00:59:54,780
They put you in the CEO of that one.

1412
00:59:54,780 --> 00:59:55,780
Oh, hey Dave.

1413
00:59:55,780 --> 00:59:56,780
Hey Dave.

1414
00:59:56,780 --> 01:00:00,780
Let's start a company and then let venture capitalists take us out.

1415
01:00:00,780 --> 01:00:01,780
Really cool.

1416
01:00:01,780 --> 01:00:03,780
I actually did that one.

1417
01:00:03,780 --> 01:00:04,780
I'm in too.

1418
01:00:04,780 --> 01:00:05,780
I'm in too.

1419
01:00:05,780 --> 01:00:06,780
I'm in too.

1420
01:00:06,780 --> 01:00:07,780
Yeah.

1421
01:00:07,780 --> 01:00:08,780
Let's talk about it.

1422
01:00:08,780 --> 01:00:11,780
Don't go anymore.

1423
01:00:11,780 --> 01:00:12,780
That's a great.

1424
01:00:12,780 --> 01:00:14,780
It is a great.

1425
01:00:14,780 --> 01:00:18,780
That was funny because I heard, um,

1426
01:00:18,780 --> 01:00:26,780
I don't know if Steve was at that dinner, but he certainly did call on her at the end of at the end of the Gilmour gang about podcasting.

1427
01:00:26,780 --> 01:00:27,780
Yeah.

1428
01:00:27,780 --> 01:00:28,780
Yeah.

1429
01:00:28,780 --> 01:00:29,780
That was kind of cool.

1430
01:00:29,780 --> 01:00:30,780
And he didn't really attack her.

1431
01:00:30,780 --> 01:00:32,780
He had lots of room there, which was nice.

1432
01:00:32,780 --> 01:00:33,780
Oh, totally.

1433
01:00:33,780 --> 01:00:34,780
You did quite a lot.

1434
01:00:34,780 --> 01:00:35,780
After his work.

1435
01:00:35,780 --> 01:00:36,780
Where's your lock in?

1436
01:00:36,780 --> 01:00:37,780
Where's your lock in?

1437
01:00:37,780 --> 01:00:38,780
Yeah.

1438
01:00:38,780 --> 01:00:40,780
You know, she was talking about everybody else's lock in.

1439
01:00:40,780 --> 01:00:41,780
Yeah.

1440
01:00:41,780 --> 01:00:43,780
It was like, say, okay, he has dirty underwear.

1441
01:00:43,780 --> 01:00:44,780
He has dirty underwear.

1442
01:00:44,780 --> 01:00:46,780
He has, okay, Kim, what about your underwear?

1443
01:00:46,780 --> 01:00:48,780
He's a dirty stack.

1444
01:00:48,780 --> 01:00:49,780
Yeah.

1445
01:00:49,780 --> 01:00:50,780
She stacked.

1446
01:00:50,780 --> 01:00:51,780
I'm not going there.

1447
01:00:51,780 --> 01:00:52,780
I'm sorry.

1448
01:00:52,780 --> 01:00:55,780
Do you have to put a disclaimer in somewhere here Mr. Winer?

1449
01:00:55,780 --> 01:00:56,780
No.

1450
01:00:56,780 --> 01:00:58,780
No, no, no, no, no.

1451
01:00:58,780 --> 01:01:00,780
No, no, no, no.

1452
01:01:00,780 --> 01:01:01,780
No.

1453
01:01:01,780 --> 01:01:02,780
All right.

1454
01:01:02,780 --> 01:01:04,780
On that note, the long time ago.

1455
01:01:04,780 --> 01:01:05,780
On that note.

1456
01:01:05,780 --> 01:01:06,780
And I have.

1457
01:01:06,780 --> 01:01:11,780
You know, I have, um, you want to listen to something you want to end it.

1458
01:01:11,780 --> 01:01:12,780
Where about an hour into this?

1459
01:01:12,780 --> 01:01:13,780
What do you want to do?

1460
01:01:13,780 --> 01:01:14,780
Um, what do you have?

1461
01:01:14,780 --> 01:01:15,780
Well, it's about, let me see,

1462
01:01:15,780 --> 01:01:19,460
It's about, let me see how long it is, it's kind of long, but it's really good. It's six minutes.

1463
01:01:19,460 --> 01:01:24,980
It's, um, I plugged this yesterday on the source code, the Truthout Overview from Truthout.org.

1464
01:01:24,980 --> 01:01:29,780
This guy who's been, it was doing his own podcast, and it's just so good.

1465
01:01:29,780 --> 01:01:31,780
It's just, let me describe it.

1466
01:01:31,780 --> 01:01:37,140
I'll just play a little bit of it. I'll pin it about, I want to play the beginning and about a

1467
01:01:37,140 --> 01:01:40,820
minute of what he's doing. You'll get the idea pretty quickly. All right? Okay.

1468
01:01:40,820 --> 01:01:42,820
Because it's something you should subscribe to.

1469
01:01:43,750 --> 01:02:10,820
[ Music ]

1470
01:02:10,820 --> 01:02:21,300
Good evening. This is William Rivers 5, and this is the Truthout Overview for Friday,

1471
01:02:21,300 --> 01:02:26,820
October 8, 2004. Our lead for today comes from the editorial board of the Demorans Register,

1472
01:02:26,820 --> 01:02:33,860
and is titled Orwell Goes to War. The essay reads, in part, as follows. We live in Orwellian times,

1473
01:02:33,860 --> 01:02:39,140
where obvious falsehoods are asserted brazenly as, the day after the final report of the

1474
01:02:39,140 --> 01:02:44,180
Iraq survey group confirmed that Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction and no active programs

1475
01:02:44,180 --> 01:02:49,460
to produce them by President Dick Cheney, blindly asserted that the report justified the invasion of

1476
01:02:49,460 --> 01:02:56,260
Iraq. No, Mr. Vice President, the report shattered the last four-learned hope that the war was necessary.

1477
01:02:56,260 --> 01:03:01,380
It established that Iraq posed no threat to the United States before the 2003 invasion,

1478
01:03:01,380 --> 01:03:04,820
or any time in the foreseeable future. You get the idea, right?

1479
01:03:05,780 --> 01:03:12,500
Yep. Yeah. It's really, really good stuff. And he reads his own essays and other newspaper articles

1480
01:03:12,500 --> 01:03:18,980
you might not come across. It's a podcast, but it's just like a weblog. He's routing information,

1481
01:03:18,980 --> 01:03:24,100
all these people are routing information around. I just routed information by playing this. This is good.

1482
01:03:24,100 --> 01:03:27,540
This is just good stuff. He's a good feed to subscribe to.

1483
01:03:28,180 --> 01:03:35,620
What's the feed? Where is it? Hmm. It's in the podcast directory.

1484
01:03:37,060 --> 01:03:44,020
Oh, that's all you need to do. Yeah, on ipodr.org. It's a truth out. The truth out overview is what it's called.

1485
01:03:44,020 --> 01:03:46,500
So you should be able to find it. That's what we need. We need to be able to search the directory

1486
01:03:46,500 --> 01:03:52,260
tree really quickly. We got to do all kinds of stuff like that. Is that possible? It's distributed

1487
01:03:52,260 --> 01:03:59,380
does that work? Oh, anything works. You know, we've got it. Well, here's the deal. We've got to talk

1488
01:03:59,380 --> 01:04:06,500
to the search and get them to crawl that tree. And then, okay, that's step number one. I'm glad we

1489
01:04:06,500 --> 01:04:11,060
got a chance to do this. That's step number one. Then once they've crawled it, when they find one,

1490
01:04:11,060 --> 01:04:17,300
they should just display it like a directory. Yeah. It's done. Yeah. That's done. It's so cool.

1491
01:04:17,300 --> 01:04:23,780
We've now completely disintermediated Yahoo. And God knows they need to be disintermediated.

1492
01:04:23,780 --> 01:04:31,300
Even they would agree with that. Like, by now, probably not. Well, but then who cares what they say?

1493
01:04:31,300 --> 01:04:37,220
Great. I don't care. I don't care. Jeremy's won't take that.

1494
01:04:39,220 --> 01:04:44,980
Oh, he doesn't care what I think. Can you believe that guy? I mean, basically, he goes and asks

1495
01:04:44,980 --> 01:04:49,540
Tim O'Reilly, whether he has any conflicts of interest. Like, don't you own Google stock

1496
01:04:49,540 --> 01:04:56,020
Tim? And of course, Tim Gidon Google stock. And it was a good question to ask. Yeah. And so I

1497
01:04:56,020 --> 01:05:02,580
quoted him asking the question. And I was like, you know, somebody, you know, wasn't that long ago?

1498
01:05:02,580 --> 01:05:08,580
I should have just about time somebody had the balls to ask O'Reilly that question, you know?

1499
01:05:08,580 --> 01:05:12,020
And what's the question to explain the situation? Because I know what you're talking about. Okay.

1500
01:05:12,020 --> 01:05:16,580
Well, what happened was, what happened was that Tim O'Reilly, Google was getting a lot of heat for

1501
01:05:16,580 --> 01:05:20,820
something that they did. I don't remember what it was. You know, there's big get a lot of heat.

1502
01:05:20,820 --> 01:05:26,180
And it's, you know, there's a big company and they're in a leadership position. And heat is a good thing.

1503
01:05:26,180 --> 01:05:31,140
He got it. It was Gmail. It was Gmail. It was about Gmail. It wasn't right. It was the privacy issues.

1504
01:05:31,140 --> 01:05:36,580
We out and the privacy issues. And I had, I think I had written this was like, there were no worse

1505
01:05:36,580 --> 01:05:40,420
than anybody else. And come on, get a life. This isn't really a privacy issue.

1506
01:05:40,420 --> 01:05:43,940
But people were freaking out. The state of California was going to pass the law.

1507
01:05:44,980 --> 01:05:50,500
You know, making what they were doing illegal is just so ridiculous. Yeah. So Tim O'Reilly comes along.

1508
01:05:50,500 --> 01:05:55,860
And writes a thing basically saying, this is all bunch of bullshit. And, you know, you can't, you know,

1509
01:05:55,860 --> 01:06:00,900
hold them. But he went way over the line. I thought, I forget what he said. But some of the things he said

1510
01:06:00,900 --> 01:06:05,540
were like, come on, you know, don't go so far. Don't get so crazy about Google.

1511
01:06:05,620 --> 01:06:12,180
We've got to be realistic about them. And, um, and with Jeremy's wife who works at Yahoo, you know,

1512
01:06:12,180 --> 01:06:18,020
his, his, um, his was making him soar. And you could see this happening over and over.

1513
01:06:18,020 --> 01:06:23,300
Is it Yahoo, they feel fair amount of resentment for Google. Because they get credit for doing

1514
01:06:23,300 --> 01:06:28,900
the things that Yahoo did first. They get credit for doing first. Everybody says, oh, Google so innovative.

1515
01:06:28,900 --> 01:06:33,140
But they're actually just copying Yahoo. That's the way. So, you know, you know, what?

1516
01:06:33,220 --> 01:06:38,100
Well, I hate that. I hate that. And I support Soadney and that one. I think that we ought to know

1517
01:06:38,100 --> 01:06:44,420
who do the innovation. Okay. Let's get grounded. So, Soadney asks the question, you know, hey, Tim O'Reilly,

1518
01:06:44,420 --> 01:06:49,860
don't you own a lot of Google stock that you did as close as when you wrote that. And of course,

1519
01:06:49,860 --> 01:06:54,740
yeah, you kind of do need to disclose that. And, uh, or at least, you know, when somebody asks,

1520
01:06:54,740 --> 01:07:00,340
you should answer, right? Yeah. Instead, Tim goes, you know, blah, blah and blah, blah. And never really

1521
01:07:00,340 --> 01:07:04,020
answers the question except he kind of shows you I do. But, you know, it's sort of like,

1522
01:07:04,020 --> 01:07:08,740
that comes in paragraph eight. But, you know, first he has to say why the question isn't

1523
01:07:08,740 --> 01:07:15,380
a fair one in hell, blah, whatever. Tim O'Reilly, usual, long, windy, very sort of like, you know,

1524
01:07:15,380 --> 01:07:21,300
I'm Mr. Cool, perfect and clear. Well, there goes my invitation to Philip M. Dave. Thanks.

1525
01:07:21,300 --> 01:07:26,900
Well, that goes Miami. You can just stroke him anyway you want. But, um, so anyway,

1526
01:07:26,980 --> 01:07:33,140
they take a long story very, very long, continuously long. I quoted the Wadney. I said, well,

1527
01:07:33,140 --> 01:07:38,420
thank, I didn't say anything. I just give the Wadney colon. How much stock does Tim own Google

1528
01:07:38,420 --> 01:07:44,820
stuff? And all of a sudden, you're the bad way. I'm the bad guy, right? Always kill the messenger

1529
01:07:44,820 --> 01:07:48,500
Dave. They always kill me. No, I'm not the messenger. There's a Wadney's a messenger. But,

1530
01:07:48,500 --> 01:07:55,780
you want to know the problem is the Wadney's an O'Reilly author. Oh, we're really happy. They said,

1531
01:07:55,780 --> 01:08:02,740
well, were you expecting a royalty check this week, you know? It's a tech industry. It's a

1532
01:08:02,740 --> 01:08:08,820
worrisome entertainment day. The tech industry is just so bad. So we go to your checks and entertainment.

1533
01:08:10,100 --> 01:08:15,460
Yeah, well, you don't get it. We don't have no words. We're catching up. We're catching up quickly.

1534
01:08:15,460 --> 01:08:18,820
You have money, Kims. What are you talking about? Yeah, no. All of that.

1535
01:08:18,820 --> 01:08:24,020
All right. What do you say? We hit the theme music at the fuck out of here.

1536
01:08:25,460 --> 01:08:31,220
I think it's time to get the fuck out of here. Because we got to keep our standing in the comedy

1537
01:08:31,220 --> 01:08:36,100
listing on the director. Yeah, we can't become boring. All right, Dave, thanks, buddy.

1538
01:08:37,460 --> 01:08:47,620
Hey, Adam, have fun. Okay. It's davidscripting.com, Adam at curry.com. This is trade secrets at secrets,

1539
01:08:47,620 --> 01:08:53,620
dot scripting dot com. We'll talk to y'all soon, bye. See you by Dave.