1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:14,920
Hello, and welcome to IT Conversations. I'm your host Doug Kay, and today we have a recorded

2
00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:21,240
session from BloggerCon 3 held at Stanford University on November 6, 2004. This session

3
00:00:21,240 --> 00:00:28,240
is on podcasting, and the session leader is Adam Curry.

4
00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:51,520
Good morning everybody. Howdy. Can you hear me okay? It's working all right. It could be

5
00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:58,080
a little bit louder if someone could turn that up a bit. It's 9 o'clock exactly, and that

6
00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:01,280
means we're starting with the podcasting session. My name is Adam Curry. It's great

7
00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:11,400
to see everybody here, and from where I'm standing, the ratio Apple to Windows is just an amazing

8
00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:22,880
sight to see this. I want to thank Dave right off the bat. We've been working really intensely

9
00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:32,640
for the past, well ever since podcasting started, so a couple weeks now. While he's been working

10
00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:38,080
with me and we've been doing all this stuff together, he's also producing a conference

11
00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:45,560
which is an incredibly, incredibly big deal to pull off, and the smoothness of it all

12
00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:51,000
is just excellent. Of course, Dave will credit all the people who have helped him put

13
00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:58,360
this together. So podcasting. First thing I thought we should do is just do our regular

14
00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:09,520
check on Google. Hold on if I can spell Google. And hold on a sec. I had to split up my Mac

15
00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:22,840
no longer has a connection. So, oops. Yeah. Google still doesn't understand it. Did you

16
00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:35,840
mean broadcasting? Meanwhile, 191,000 hits for podcasting. Now actually, we do have a

17
00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:41,080
definition on iPod.org which I'll just leave up there because it's a little bit confusing.

18
00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:48,480
What is podcasting? Is it something that just started with iPods or with MP3 players?

19
00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:53,680
Or this definition I think really says it all, which means it can be perhaps a lot

20
00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:59,760
broader than what we're doing today. I wanted to give you a little bit of history of the

21
00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:03,960
past couple of months about how this came to be and some of the things that happened

22
00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:08,800
and show that it really was very simple because it was just a matter of users and

23
00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:14,120
developers. I say users and developers partying together and coming up with amazing

24
00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:19,120
stuff. Are the developers in the room who consider themselves to be real developers?

25
00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:29,120
Okay. Good. Welcome to the party. Glad to have you here. Just briefly, five years ago

26
00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:35,880
Dave and I conceived an idea of how to distribute media files through the web. We

27
00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:38,680
could go into all kinds of technical details about that. I don't think this

28
00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:43,360
room is going to want to do that just now or maybe later on. We'll see. But it

29
00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:49,120
was relatively simple and was built on top of protocols and formats that Dave

30
00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:52,160
had already invented. They were already being used and they used weblog

31
00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:58,640
infrastructure. It was just that. It was time shifting an MP3 file or a

32
00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:03,160
video file so that it would kind of come into my computer if he sent one to me and

33
00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:07,800
would just be there when I woke up and said what's new and vice versa. We did

34
00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:11,920
that for about four years. We sent each other little clips and we'd post about

35
00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:16,800
it and say, oh, isn't this cool? Yeah. When everybody uses it, it'll be really

36
00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:23,320
cool. Now, there have been MP3 files that people have been putting on the

37
00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:29,360
web for years and years and years. Shows, dramas, documentaries, stuff that is

38
00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:33,480
coming from traditional radio. It's been around. The problem that I always had

39
00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:38,840
because I was listening to Dave's morning coffee notes which he went from

40
00:04:38,840 --> 00:04:42,440
kind of the text version to the audio version for a while and I really liked

41
00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:46,960
it. But it wasn't very clear if I just looked at scripting news and okay

42
00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:50,880
where's the file and I might look over it and might understand that that

43
00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:53,960
was something that I wanted to get. And quite honestly, I didn't want to sit and

44
00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:56,760
click and download and have stuff, you know, wait until it comes in, play it on

45
00:04:56,760 --> 00:05:03,240
my computer. And I would usually, you know, drag it over to my iPod and use it on

46
00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:06,960
the commute or go shopping or whatever or when I just wanted to tune up my

47
00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:13,240
14-year-old daughter's songs. And I wanted to have that happen

48
00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:16,640
automatically because it was just a laborious process and I would miss

49
00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:21,520
stuff. And I just wouldn't be current with whatever he was doing. Also Dave at

50
00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:26,480
the time which was the first blogger con I think was working with Chris Leiden.

51
00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:32,480
Is Chris here? I don't think he is. And Chris was doing interviews and Dave

52
00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:37,240
was putting those in this distribution system which is based on RSS. And that

53
00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:41,600
was cool, you know. I don't get all these interviews automatically on my, one

54
00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:45,800
of them automatically on my iPod. And I actually looked around for people to

55
00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:51,080
help me do this. I'm not a programmer. I don't feel like a programmer. In fact, the

56
00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:53,640
first blogger con asked a couple people here if you know they could help me out

57
00:05:53,640 --> 00:06:00,040
and wound up actually Marcus Mahler who I pay to watch my servers and stuff and

58
00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:03,760
he developed some stuff for me. He actually built what I would say the

59
00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:08,720
first iPod in Radio User Land. Radio User Land if you're not familiar with

60
00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:12,360
it is, well it's much more than a web blogging tool but it is an

61
00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:17,400
aggregator that understands how to get enclosures which is the basis of podcasts.

62
00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:22,920
And he created a little script that literally would update my iPod with

63
00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:25,400
whatever came in. It didn't work very well. That was the problem. It was

64
00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:30,640
unreliable for a whole bunch of issues. One of which is the way radio

65
00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:35,280
downloads. It just, it didn't work entirely well. And I couldn't get

66
00:06:35,280 --> 00:06:40,680
anyone to help me figure this out. And I saw all the bits. I knew that

67
00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:43,480
everything was in place and if I could just tie them together I could

68
00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:48,440
probably make it happen. So I took about a month and I'll just show this to

69
00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:53,320
you because I thought you might appreciate it. It's much less of a

70
00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:57,280
big deal than you might think. And I wrote basically a page and a half

71
00:06:57,280 --> 00:07:04,640
of text. This is Apple script. I'd already learned a bit of user talk

72
00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:08,440
which is Radio User Land and Frontiers scripting language. And you'll

73
00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:13,280
see in here literally, it was all copy-paste. I went out to Google and

74
00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:19,040
I said, RSS, Apple script. And it came back and it gave me all these

75
00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:24,280
great examples of stuff that people were doing with Apple script and RSS.

76
00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:27,600
Which wasn't very much actually. But there was a lot of iPod stuff and I

77
00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:31,880
learned that you can talk to with iTunes and your iPod and there's

78
00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:35,320
all these things in there and you'll see that literally as I copy and

79
00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:42,600
paste and stuff. This is really my code and here's finished parsing and I

80
00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:47,360
called stuff like enclosure sucker. But the big deal is down at the

81
00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:52,200
bottom of the page where it says copy to iTunes. And that was really

82
00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:58,600
the big deal for me. When it was done and I just called it iPod

83
00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:02,520
because that's the name I come up with which commercially doesn't

84
00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:06,240
make sense but it stuck. I was really happy but it really,

85
00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:09,960
really sucks. It's the worst program I've ever used and of

86
00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:13,880
course because I don't know how to do this. Really, please, it's

87
00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:16,440
still available. Download it and see how bad it sucks. It just

88
00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:21,480
breaks all over the place. And I put it out and said, this

89
00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:24,040
sucks. Can anyone please improve it for me? Help me. And

90
00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:26,400
that's when it started and that's when I think for me at

91
00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:31,800
least the connect of users and developers happened where I put

92
00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:34,000
out a little more initiative than just saying, hey, make this

93
00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:36,880
for me because I found out that asking programmers and

94
00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:39,480
developers to make something for you is like asking them to do

95
00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:42,760
your homework. It just doesn't work that way. And from here

96
00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:47,600
just grew this incredible based on a Yahoo Groups mailing list

97
00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:51,240
I might add. This incredible community of users and

98
00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:55,960
developers having a conversation with no hidden agenda. The

99
00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:58,200
only agenda was we want to make this easier. We want to

100
00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:00,320
make it cool. We want to have a lot of fun while we're

101
00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:05,280
doing this. And I think that a real nice part of all that is

102
00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:08,440
that the developers are also podcasters. They're not just

103
00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:11,560
making code. Of those developers who raise their hands,

104
00:09:11,560 --> 00:09:14,840
someone doing a podcast, I hope? You can raise it a little

105
00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:21,360
bit higher. So that's just a brief history of how we got

106
00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:25,360
here. And then what happened from there is it's just like

107
00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:32,480
web logs. You can read web logs. We all know more or less

108
00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:35,520
what web logs bring to us. But I think one of the beauties

109
00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:38,120
about web logs is you can create your own at any time

110
00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:42,480
and you can participate. And this, with what we've created

111
00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:47,200
here, anybody can basically create a podcast. And

112
00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:51,840
definition of a podcast or a program, really anyone can

113
00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:54,360
do that as long as you have a computer that at least

114
00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:57,880
has a built-in microphone. From there, you can really

115
00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:01,200
branch out and do some really fancy stuff. I'm not quite

116
00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:03,480
sure what, I've heard a couple things about what you came

117
00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:06,760
to this session to find out about. The only thing I

118
00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:08,880
really have set in my mind is that I think a lot of

119
00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:13,040
people want to see how I do a podcast, which may be

120
00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:15,120
different from the way you're doing it. But if

121
00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:17,520
anyone has a direction you'd like to go right now,

122
00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:19,880
just let me know so that we can get a mic to you

123
00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:24,240
and go down that path. Otherwise, I'm going to do

124
00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:28,200
whatever the hell I want to do. Just wait until the

125
00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:32,960
mic comes up. And please, let's know who you are,

126
00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:34,600
the URL or podcast.

127
00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:37,440
Hi, I love your show. I listen to it all the time.

128
00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:40,680
My name is Donovan Watts. I work for the National

129
00:10:40,680 --> 00:10:43,280
Radio Project and they put out a weekly show called

130
00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:46,320
Making Contact. It's a 30-minute audio

131
00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:50,560
documentary, RadioProject.org. And it's just perfect for

132
00:10:50,560 --> 00:10:52,640
podcasting. I've been wanting to do this for a long

133
00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:57,800
time. So recently I started podcasting and a whole

134
00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:01,240
week radio picked us up and without my even saying

135
00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:03,040
anything. So I'm pretty excited about the

136
00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:07,840
potential. But we have two audiences. One is the

137
00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:10,240
listeners with the iPods and the listening

138
00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:12,440
devices. But the other people I'm interested

139
00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:15,240
in getting a hold of are the stations. You

140
00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:17,960
know, every week we send out hundreds of CDs and I

141
00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:20,360
want to eliminate that. So, you know, what I have

142
00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:22,920
a real interest in is how to get these stations

143
00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:24,840
to get on board and how to make it easy for

144
00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:26,160
them to get the show.

145
00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:28,040
Okay, so what you're, if I understand your

146
00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:31,360
question correctly, is how can you use, excuse

147
00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:34,480
me, podcasting as a syndication method for

148
00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:38,360
traditional broadcast? Okay, well, Tony, do you

149
00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:40,880
want to jump in here? Because you are quite

150
00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:43,960
familiar with, let's call it traditional

151
00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:45,560
radio. We've got a microphone coming down

152
00:11:45,560 --> 00:11:48,600
here to Tony, please. There you go. Tony Khan

153
00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:51,560
is a legend in the public, well, not just

154
00:11:51,560 --> 00:11:53,240
public radio, but in radio in general.

155
00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:56,240
Just look up his CV on the web and he

156
00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:57,800
currently has a podcast of Morning

157
00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:01,240
Stories also on WGBHN in the podcast.

158
00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:02,920
That's the surest way to shut me up. Call

159
00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:06,400
me a legend. I guess I've said it all

160
00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:08,040
already and I have no idea what I said.

161
00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:12,160
So, the main problem, excuse me, the main

162
00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:14,000
problem in trying to get anything from

163
00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:18,000
the outside into broadcasting is the

164
00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:20,480
same problem that you face in any line

165
00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:23,440
of work from being in the Pentagon to

166
00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:25,920
being a camel trader in a bazaar, and

167
00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:28,240
that is you got to know somebody. It's

168
00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:30,360
all personal and you've got to persuade

169
00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:32,360
them that what you have really is

170
00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:35,160
essential to their well-being, happiness,

171
00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:37,160
it may be the preservation of their job.

172
00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:39,520
So that's a huge problem. It's got

173
00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:41,200
nothing at all to do with the quality

174
00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:43,360
of the content of your show. And I

175
00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:45,120
think an enormous amount of energy can

176
00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:47,120
be misspent trying to get what you've

177
00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:49,240
got that's original and fresh into a

178
00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:52,000
medium like broadcasting, which already

179
00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:53,920
has its own ideas about what it wants

180
00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:57,120
to do. And I'm here because I believe

181
00:12:57,120 --> 00:12:59,440
that all that time, energy, and sense

182
00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:02,080
of fun is better spent trying to

183
00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:05,320
create a market and an environment and

184
00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:07,560
a climate for new ideas that is

185
00:13:07,560 --> 00:13:09,240
different from broadcasting so that

186
00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:11,560
broadcasting as a whole can start to

187
00:13:11,560 --> 00:13:14,160
come and say, geez, we got something to

188
00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:16,800
learn from you guys. You are essential

189
00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:19,200
to our survival now. So what was that

190
00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:22,360
show you were doing? I think if we

191
00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:24,200
build community here and we build new

192
00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:26,480
ideas and we appreciate the fact that

193
00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:27,960
the main difference between what's

194
00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:29,240
happening here and what's happening in

195
00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:31,280
broadcasting is that this movement is

196
00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:33,720
young, it's supple, it's fresh, it's

197
00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:35,800
about partying and about having fun a

198
00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:37,280
lot more than it's about making money

199
00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:40,120
and keeping your job. Those qualities

200
00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:42,440
are rare. They don't last terribly long

201
00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:46,200
anywhere. Make sure you hold on to that

202
00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:49,240
and make sure you get to express your

203
00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:51,000
show, Adam, for instance, is creating a

204
00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:52,960
new form. Every podcast I've heard is

205
00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:54,720
creating a new form. Don and Drew is a

206
00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:57,480
new form. They would never, never come

207
00:13:57,480 --> 00:14:01,800
out of public broadcasting. I thought

208
00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:03,440
the mile-housing was interesting. They

209
00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:04,880
would never be allowed in the bathroom

210
00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:09,760
probably at WGBH. But it's real

211
00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:13,080
important to remember that the hits are

212
00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:14,800
going to come from the bottom up, from

213
00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:18,120
the outside in. No programmer knows how

214
00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:20,120
to make a hit, but they think that's

215
00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:22,520
their job. So they will listen to the

216
00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:25,160
wrong things. So I don't want to

217
00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:27,880
repeat myself, but I guess I am. Try not

218
00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:29,840
to spend too much time getting into

219
00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:32,000
broadcasting if you think of yourself as

220
00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:34,400
a podcaster. If you think of yourself

221
00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:36,240
as a podcaster, figure out what is

222
00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:37,720
really special and different about

223
00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:40,880
podcasting and then get broadcasting to

224
00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:44,120
salivate about it. Right. It's what Tony

225
00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:45,600
is saying here is one of the big things

226
00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:48,120
that I really love about what we're

227
00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:50,920
doing is exactly that. It's fun. You

228
00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:52,880
can hear the pattern. I've been in

229
00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:57,080
radio since I was 15 and there's all

230
00:14:57,080 --> 00:14:58,160
these rules, you know, there's all

231
00:14:58,160 --> 00:14:59,720
these ways that you kind of do stuff

232
00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:03,000
and time is definitely money. No

233
00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:04,480
matter if you're public radio or

234
00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:06,640
not, every minute is accounted for.

235
00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:11,800
And my wife, who I've been with for 17

236
00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:14,360
years now, in the early, early days of

237
00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:16,400
my career, I would be on radio and

238
00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:18,160
television and if I would flub a line

239
00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:20,720
and they don't always let you

240
00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:22,240
redo stuff, you know, the director

241
00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:23,400
makes the decisions and now we're not

242
00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:24,960
going to do that over because my shots

243
00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:26,200
were great, fuck whatever you said.

244
00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:29,760
I don't like television. That's one

245
00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:31,840
of many reasons. But I would be

246
00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:34,480
really upset and we're talking 85

247
00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:37,360
and I'd sit at home and go, oh, I fucked up that line.

248
00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:39,760
And she said, oh man, that was the best

249
00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:41,840
part. So you became human for like a

250
00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:47,200
nanosecond. And that's exactly what it is.

251
00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:49,240
You can hear the humanity, you can hear

252
00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:51,840
it all coming through. Don and Drew are

253
00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:53,440
both here, right? Where are you guys

254
00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:59,760
sitting? Stand up for a second.

255
00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:03,120
Can we get a microphone up?

256
00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:05,200
Now despite what you've heard, Don and I

257
00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:07,280
have no relationship of sexual nature. I

258
00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:08,720
did not have sexual relations with that

259
00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:12,160
woman.

260
00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:13,440
Yet.

261
00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:15,280
Hey Drew.

262
00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:17,760
What I'd like to hear from you guys

263
00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:21,760
is what got you started. I think I can

264
00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:24,560
kind of feel that Drew is

265
00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:26,080
clearly the producer and he's

266
00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:28,880
driving Don in a way. But you know,

267
00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:31,040
maybe you could just tell us how you

268
00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:32,720
fell into this and why you've been

269
00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:34,320
doing it every single day and why you

270
00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:36,320
keep doing it and just your feelings

271
00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:38,160
about that.

272
00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:39,680
Sure. Yeah, you're not allowed to hold

273
00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:42,640
the mic.

274
00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:44,480
I've just been into the internet and

275
00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:45,840
blogging and all that stuff for, you

276
00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:47,600
know, years now. And I'm actually

277
00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:49,600
friends with Pete Raster Webb.

278
00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:51,040
And he's the guy that kind of just

279
00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:52,640
pushed me into it. You know, one

280
00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:53,760
weekend he was like, you better put

281
00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:55,760
something out or else, you know,

282
00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:57,120
some wisecrack. And so I did and it

283
00:16:57,120 --> 00:16:59,840
was real stupid. And so, you know,

284
00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:01,920
Don heard it and I just kind of like,

285
00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:03,680
you know, we're a team and

286
00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:06,400
she's the talent. I'm just the yes,

287
00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:08,560
the tech. And it's just been, you

288
00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:09,760
know, it's just been crazy, something

289
00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:11,040
fun, you know, just been having a

290
00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:12,160
blast.

291
00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:13,120
Don, is that really the way it

292
00:17:13,120 --> 00:17:13,680
happened?

293
00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:15,760
Yeah, his first podcast was so

294
00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:19,360
nerdy I couldn't even take it.

295
00:17:19,360 --> 00:17:21,440
And I was like, wait a second.

296
00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:23,360
This sounds like a cool way for me

297
00:17:23,360 --> 00:17:25,760
to rant and people can listen.

298
00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:28,640
And so I kind of mooched in on his

299
00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:29,440
thing.

300
00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:33,360
So.

301
00:17:33,360 --> 00:17:35,040
She's always been the talent.

302
00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:35,520
Sorry?

303
00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:36,640
She's always been the talent. I've

304
00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:38,000
just always, you know, looked for

305
00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:40,240
the vehicle to put her out there.

306
00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:43,680
He's making me blush.

307
00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:46,720
Last night's show should.

308
00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:49,920
Um, is it hard to get up the

309
00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:51,200
energy to do a show every single

310
00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:52,880
day?

311
00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:54,800
Oh, sometimes I just can't do it.

312
00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:56,160
I'm just too tired.

313
00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:58,560
But, um, I don't know, we don't do

314
00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:00,240
it every day anymore, because I was

315
00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:02,000
getting kind of burnt out. And you

316
00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:04,560
can only say like, fuck and shit so

317
00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:06,160
many times in a night before it

318
00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:15,040
becomes, you know.

319
00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:16,800
What, uh, what are you coming

320
00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:18,480
looking for from, from the podcasting

321
00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:19,760
session? Is there anything that's at

322
00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:21,760
the top of your mind?

323
00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:23,680
You know, I just wanted to, um, you

324
00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:24,880
know, since we kind of got wrapped

325
00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:26,320
into this whole thing so fast, I just

326
00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:28,000
wanted to, uh, you know, just take

327
00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:29,200
advantage of being here.

328
00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:30,880
You know, meeting you, meeting Dave,

329
00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:33,440
just, uh, just having a good old

330
00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:34,480
time.

331
00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:35,760
Excellent. Okay. Well, you're

332
00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:37,120
welcome to, you're welcome here. We're

333
00:18:37,120 --> 00:18:39,120
happy to have you guys.

334
00:18:39,120 --> 00:18:42,000
Yeah, uh, Dave is, yes, right on.

335
00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:44,400
Um, let me just tell you about Dave

336
00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:45,520
Slusher.

337
00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:47,360
What do you live, is it?

338
00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:48,960
How am I South Carolina?

339
00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:50,160
Is that right, Steve?

340
00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:53,200
Yes, it is.

341
00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:58,000
Um, uh, Dave was kind of the, the

342
00:18:58,000 --> 00:18:59,680
first guy that we were cross

343
00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:00,880
podcasting. He caught on

344
00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:03,120
immediately and I don't, I can't

345
00:19:03,120 --> 00:19:04,720
remember how I, I probably threw a

346
00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:06,400
referral log or whatever and then

347
00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:07,840
I was like, whoa, you know, here's a

348
00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:09,600
guy talking about hurricanes and,

349
00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:10,640
you know, and how I was really

350
00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:12,480
worried about what was going on.

351
00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:14,640
It was so personal, but we started

352
00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:16,320
doing this almost like at a radio,

353
00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:18,480
like at a real radio station where,

354
00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:19,840
and it used to be that way where the

355
00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:21,200
jocks would talk about each other and

356
00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:22,560
the morning guy would talk about the

357
00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:24,000
midday guy coming up and, oh, did you

358
00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:25,280
hear the overnight guy?

359
00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:27,040
And so we were having this, this

360
00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:30,880
conversation and, uh, shoot, I think,

361
00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:32,960
the actual term podcasting, you

362
00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:34,880
figured out that we should, uh,

363
00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:36,080
well explain, uh, explain who's

364
00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:37,360
sitting next to you and why don't you

365
00:19:37,360 --> 00:19:38,640
tell us about yourself and how you

366
00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:39,200
got into podcasting.

367
00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:40,640
Okay, well, I'm Dave Slusher of

368
00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:43,680
Evil Genius Chronicles and, uh,

369
00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:48,800
yeah, so, you know, I just happened to

370
00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:50,320
be, you know, I've been reading

371
00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:52,640
Adam's, uh, weblog for a long time and

372
00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:53,840
I just happened to be in the right

373
00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:55,440
place at the right time to get in

374
00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:57,840
early, you know, I had this, I already

375
00:19:57,840 --> 00:19:59,120
had the stuff in my house.

376
00:19:59,120 --> 00:20:00,880
That's, that's what gave me, like, a

377
00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:02,000
weak head start on everyone else.

378
00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:03,520
I already had stuff, because I had

379
00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:05,760
produced it, I had been in radio

380
00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:08,000
before and I had produced a show

381
00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:10,000
that was syndicated in public radio,

382
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:12,080
like from my house, literally.

383
00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:14,400
And, uh, so I've kind of been through

384
00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:16,160
the whole, you know, getting into the

385
00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:19,360
actual big, or not big, but public

386
00:20:19,360 --> 00:20:20,800
radio system as an independent

387
00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:22,880
producer, which the barrier is lower

388
00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:24,000
than you would think, but it is a

389
00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:25,200
barrier.

390
00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:27,200
And so I have been through that

391
00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:29,520
and so the, the notion of kind of the,

392
00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:31,920
the almost no friction or very low

393
00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:34,240
friction, very low barrier to entry,

394
00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:36,320
um, for doing a very similar kind of

395
00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:38,560
thing would just really appeal to me.

396
00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:40,080
And so when I listened to the first

397
00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:42,000
couple of, uh, Adam's Daily Source

398
00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:44,320
Codes, uh, I more or less,

399
00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:45,840
I said I think in the very first one,

400
00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:47,120
I gave, I had, there's a great quote

401
00:20:47,120 --> 00:20:48,480
from Rick Nielsen of Cheap Trick

402
00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:49,760
for Bands. He said, when you first

403
00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:51,600
start doing a band, pick a band you

404
00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:53,920
love, find their most obscure songs,

405
00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:55,120
and cover them, and everyone will

406
00:20:55,120 --> 00:20:56,400
think they're yours.

407
00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:58,400
I remember you saying, yeah, yeah,

408
00:20:58,400 --> 00:20:59,280
remember that. No one will, no one

409
00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:00,640
will know the song and then you

410
00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:02,480
find your own voice while you're

411
00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:04,080
slavishly imitating them and

412
00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:05,360
eventually it'll come out and it'll

413
00:21:05,360 --> 00:21:06,800
be different and it'll be you. And I,

414
00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:08,000
I kind of think that's what happened

415
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:09,680
is my first, I don't know, five or

416
00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:11,440
ten were more or less the junior

417
00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:13,280
varsity version of, of Adam's show,

418
00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:15,520
but over time it's kind of become

419
00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:16,880
different and I, you know, we're

420
00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:18,320
doing different sorts of things now

421
00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:19,520
and so it kind of worked like it

422
00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:21,760
was supposed to. But, uh, you know,

423
00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:24,240
so that's just, you know, I, I have

424
00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:28,320
over time, uh, uh, Dana Greenlee

425
00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:30,720
from, uh, Web Talk Radio actually

426
00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:33,680
in one of the, discussing the show

427
00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:35,360
mentioned that I sounded like

428
00:21:35,360 --> 00:21:37,280
Ira Glass and until she said

429
00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:39,360
that, I hadn't realized that

430
00:21:39,360 --> 00:21:42,240
I probably actually am because I'm

431
00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:43,440
a huge fan of that guy. I think

432
00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:44,960
that's maybe the most brilliant

433
00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:46,160
show in the history of public

434
00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:48,720
radio at This American Life,

435
00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:50,640
which is hard to remember now

436
00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:51,520
because we've been soaking in it

437
00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:52,800
for almost a decade, but it was

438
00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:54,320
so different when it first came

439
00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:55,920
out and so that's actually kind

440
00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:56,880
of the direction I've been

441
00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:58,960
trying to take things and without

442
00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:00,640
probably really realizing it.

443
00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:03,280
But, uh, what I like about that

444
00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:04,480
is, is it brought kind of a

445
00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:07,040
personal connection, uh, to public

446
00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:08,240
radio that maybe hadn't been

447
00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:09,680
there and that's, that's what

448
00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:12,400
this is all about to me is, uh,

449
00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:15,440
when I listen to whomever it is,

450
00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:17,200
I always feel more of a personal

451
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:20,000
connection from engaging, uh, in

452
00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:22,320
their podcast. Even somebody like

453
00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:23,600
you who I've been reading your

454
00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:25,680
text for years and years, uh, I

455
00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:27,360
feel more connected to you when

456
00:22:27,360 --> 00:22:29,040
I listen to one single episode of

457
00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:31,040
your show than I did for a

458
00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:32,800
year of reading text blogs

459
00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:34,720
because I hear your voice, uh, you

460
00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:36,320
know, I get, I, I feel like

461
00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:37,520
there's more of a person at the

462
00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:40,320
other end and so that's what I

463
00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:42,080
like doing. I love the fact that

464
00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:43,040
I've, I don't know, I've talked to

465
00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:45,520
15 or 20 people who like, feel

466
00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:47,280
like they know me since I've

467
00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:50,960
been here and, uh, and vice

468
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:52,400
versa. I feel like I know people.

469
00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:53,440
I feel like I know Mike Butler.

470
00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:54,640
I've never met the guy, you know?

471
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:56,160
It, it used to be that way also

472
00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:57,920
on radio. You would, you would

473
00:22:57,920 --> 00:22:59,360
intimately know your favorite

474
00:22:59,360 --> 00:23:00,480
DJ. You know, you would

475
00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:01,840
intimately know all about him

476
00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:02,880
because he could talk a lot more

477
00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:04,640
freely and I think this, uh,

478
00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:05,840
you know, it's, it's a lot more

479
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:07,200
of the reality of life that's

480
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:08,400
getting back into that. I agree.

481
00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:09,280
They just want to briefly

482
00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:10,560
explain how, how the pod, how

483
00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:11,680
podcasting came about because

484
00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:12,400
that's, I would just want to

485
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:13,520
make sure that that's really

486
00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:14,640
clear because it's interesting

487
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:15,680
way it happened.

488
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:17,200
I'm sitting next to, uh, Danny

489
00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:19,040
Gregory who I'd like to, uh,

490
00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:20,240
make sure everyone realizes is

491
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:21,840
a brilliant bastard and he's

492
00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:23,280
the guy who coined the term

493
00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:24,320
podcast.

494
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:25,520
All right Danny.

495
00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:31,440
He, uh, so he's the guy who

496
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:33,200
coined the term and a few of us

497
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:34,400
started running with it so

498
00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:36,880
either the credit or the blame

499
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:38,000
goes kind of towards this end.

500
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:40,240
I tend to think it's credit,

501
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:41,360
certain people think it's blame,

502
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:44,800
but, uh, I just saw a referral.

503
00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:46,240
So you had coined the term

504
00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:47,680
and registered the domain

505
00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:50,400
and I saw like a robot hit

506
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:51,440
my weblog and I'm like,

507
00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:52,160
podcast?

508
00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:54,560
Hmm, what is this podcast

509
00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:55,280
of which you speak?

510
00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:57,840
And then he used the term on

511
00:23:57,840 --> 00:23:59,280
the iPod or dev list and it's

512
00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:00,160
one of those kind of,

513
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:01,680
it's like it hit the

514
00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:03,040
resonance energy and it just

515
00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:04,400
made everything vibrate

516
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:05,520
perfectly.

517
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:07,440
And so we had been

518
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:08,480
talking about a lot of stuff

519
00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:09,120
and we had been,

520
00:24:09,120 --> 00:24:10,080
we all knew what we were

521
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:10,720
talking about,

522
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:12,240
but none of the terms like

523
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:13,200
plucked the string and,

524
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:14,080
you know, made a note.

525
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:16,080
And that was the one and

526
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:17,200
you'll notice that we talked

527
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:18,560
about, Steve Gilmore had

528
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:19,680
been talking about the iPod

529
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:21,440
platform and everyone kind of

530
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:22,160
knew what he meant,

531
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:23,440
but once you had this like

532
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:24,640
sexy term,

533
00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:26,640
an explosion happened and kind

534
00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:26,960
of the,

535
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:28,800
I tend to kind of

536
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:30,480
think there's something

537
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:31,200
causal there,

538
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:32,080
but you know,

539
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:34,640
there's an argument that

540
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:35,600
can be made either way,

541
00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:36,400
but that's,

542
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:37,680
that's where the actual word

543
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:38,480
came from.

544
00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:39,680
Podcasters like to talk.

545
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:40,960
It's really good.

546
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:41,440
Sorry.

547
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:42,400
Thank you very much, Dave.

548
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:43,360
Steve, I was going to call on

549
00:24:43,360 --> 00:24:44,400
Steve Gilmore actually.

550
00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:45,920
Steve, could you raise your

551
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:47,120
hand or stand up?

552
00:24:47,120 --> 00:24:47,360
Thank you.

553
00:24:47,360 --> 00:24:48,240
Can we get a microphone?

554
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:50,720
You may or may not have heard

555
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:51,520
the Gilmore gang,

556
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:53,440
which you can find through.

557
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:54,240
I, yes.

558
00:24:58,080 --> 00:24:58,880
You can find that through

559
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:01,440
itconversations.com,

560
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:02,080
Doug Kay,

561
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:03,920
who runs and produces

562
00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:04,960
and does everything

563
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:06,160
as up there at the back.

564
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:07,680
He's also working on our webcast.

565
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:08,480
Thank you very much, Doug.

566
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:14,080
If you want to jack in,

567
00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:14,560
by the way,

568
00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:16,400
there's plenty of connectors.

569
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:17,440
But Steve,

570
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:18,240
the Gilmore gang was

571
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:19,520
around before

572
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:22,880
the iPod functionality came out.

573
00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:24,640
You want to-

574
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:25,760
Yeah, it was all my idea,

575
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:26,240
basically,

576
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:26,880
this whole thing.

577
00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:29,360
We knew that, Steve.

578
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:31,840
And I just want to

579
00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:32,640
point to

580
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:34,000
another member of the Gilmore gang

581
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:35,200
in the third row,

582
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:35,840
Doc Searles.

583
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:36,480
Searles, yep.

584
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:42,160
So what do you want me to say?

585
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:46,080
I just want you to take credit

586
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:47,200
for inventing all this, Steve,

587
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:47,760
that's all.

588
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:49,280
Okay, well, my job is done.

589
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:52,400
Tell me what has happened

590
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:54,080
since you started

591
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:55,440
with the Gilmore gang

592
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:56,480
and now we have

593
00:25:57,200 --> 00:25:59,200
what you call the iPod platform.

594
00:25:59,200 --> 00:25:59,760
Well, you know,

595
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:00,640
there was an interesting

596
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:02,880
evolution of the Gilmore gang.

597
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:04,240
When I first

598
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:06,240
started talking with Doug Kay

599
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:06,720
about this,

600
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:08,800
how long ago was that, Doug?

601
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:10,160
About six months?

602
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:11,520
Six months?

603
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:12,240
I don't know.

604
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:12,720
Six months.

605
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:16,800
Doug was doing,

606
00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:17,920
as you can see,

607
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:20,160
from his IT conversation site.

608
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:21,280
He was doing a lot of

609
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:23,360
transcripts

610
00:26:23,360 --> 00:26:26,400
for the performances

611
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:28,080
that he was putting on the network.

612
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:30,240
And so

613
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:31,840
we had a couple of transcripts

614
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:33,520
cut of the first few Gilmore

615
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:34,160
gangs.

616
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:35,120
And I read them

617
00:26:35,120 --> 00:26:35,600
and, you know,

618
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:36,480
first of all, I had to,

619
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:38,400
they, you know,

620
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:39,760
I think they went off to India.

621
00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:41,680
So it was an interesting

622
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:42,640
version of English

623
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:43,360
that came back.

624
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:46,080
And so I just didn't

625
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:46,880
want to do the work

626
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:48,480
of proofing it.

627
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:49,440
You know, it was basically,

628
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:50,640
I was lazy.

629
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:52,400
But over time,

630
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:53,280
we started watching

631
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:54,800
the characteristics of the

632
00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:57,840
relationship between

633
00:26:57,840 --> 00:26:59,600
streaming and downloads.

634
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:01,760
And for almost from the beginning,

635
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:04,880
the downloads outnumbered

636
00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:06,080
streaming by two to one.

637
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:08,560
So this was the beginning

638
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:09,120
of a hint.

639
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:11,200
And I kept, you know,

640
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:12,000
Tim Bray once

641
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:13,760
I am to me and said,

642
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:15,040
you know,

643
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:17,520
that he just didn't have time

644
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:18,400
for the Gilmore gang.

645
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:19,440
And, you know, that it was,

646
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:20,400
you know, an hour and,

647
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:21,520
you know, maybe 10 minutes,

648
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:22,720
you know, whatever.

649
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:24,640
And I sort of at that point

650
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:26,160
made it my goal in life

651
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:28,080
to make it as long as possible.

652
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:33,200
And one time,

653
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:34,240
we had Brendan Eich,

654
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:36,800
who's the architect of Mozilla on.

655
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:39,040
And the next day,

656
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:43,040
Tim calls me,

657
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:44,720
doesn't even I am me,

658
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:46,560
calls me to say,

659
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:48,240
and he wrote this long post

660
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:49,120
about, you know,

661
00:27:49,120 --> 00:27:50,640
obviously he'd been trapped

662
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:51,840
into this discussion

663
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:52,800
because it was all about

664
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:54,560
stuff that he was interested in.

665
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:56,560
And from that moment on,

666
00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:57,200
we had him.

667
00:27:57,760 --> 00:27:58,560
So I,

668
00:27:58,560 --> 00:27:59,680
we're never going to do any

669
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:01,200
transcripts on the Gilmore gang.

670
00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:04,480
And essentially,

671
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:05,520
that is the,

672
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:07,040
you know, the capturing

673
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:07,760
the attention,

674
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:09,920
the voice as you've done

675
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:11,040
and as Dave has done,

676
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:11,840
you know,

677
00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:14,720
and as Dave Slusher

678
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:16,320
and Don and Drew,

679
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:18,240
I mean, the cast of characters

680
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:20,320
is already beyond

681
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:22,080
what we can consume,

682
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:24,960
you know, and have real lives.

683
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:28,320
So, you know,

684
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:29,520
I think we're now we're poised

685
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:30,880
for the next generation of this,

686
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:32,320
which is where we figure out

687
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:34,160
how to be able to mine attention

688
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:36,880
and tag

689
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:38,240
and provide metadata

690
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:39,440
on these feeds.

691
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:40,960
Because from my perspective,

692
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:41,840
and I know this is,

693
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:43,920
you know,

694
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:44,880
may not be,

695
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:45,680
I know there are people

696
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:46,320
like Dave Weiner

697
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:47,200
who disagree with me,

698
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:48,880
I think.

699
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:52,160
But I see the blogosphere as

700
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:56,800
an annotation for the

701
00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:57,680
for the podosphere.

702
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:00,400
I think that's where the

703
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:01,760
metadata is going to go.

704
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:02,720
I think that the,

705
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:04,400
you know, the information

706
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:06,000
that is in the blogosphere

707
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:08,720
is going to be used

708
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:10,960
to reveal the opaque

709
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:13,280
network of the podosphere

710
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:15,040
that is emerging here,

711
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:15,680
you know,

712
00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:16,960
how you find out about

713
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:18,080
what is interesting,

714
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:19,520
who is interested in what,

715
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:21,120
the kind of conversation

716
00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:21,840
that you're having

717
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:24,400
in the podosphere

718
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:25,760
between Dave Slusher

719
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:27,440
and Don and Drew

720
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:28,240
and all the people

721
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:30,080
that you're putting

722
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:30,720
on your show

723
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:31,840
for the first time.

724
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:33,600
You're the Alan Freed

725
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:35,760
of podcasting.

726
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:36,800
Is that a compliment, Steve?

727
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:39,120
Well, we'll talk about that later.

728
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:40,480
You know,

729
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:41,920
that's an old reference,

730
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:42,880
but Alan Freed was,

731
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:43,120
you know,

732
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:44,000
the sort of the

733
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:45,600
considered to be the reason

734
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:46,640
that the Rock and Roll

735
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:48,320
Hall of Fame is in Cleveland

736
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:49,920
is because Alan Freed

737
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:50,480
was born

738
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:51,200
and grew up there.

739
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:53,760
So this was a disc jockey who

740
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:56,640
basically promoted

741
00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:58,880
a bunch of very small bands

742
00:29:58,880 --> 00:29:59,280
into,

743
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:00,480
you know,

744
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:01,600
into a revolution.

745
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:03,680
So what we're dealing with here,

746
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:04,960
I was just saying to

747
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:05,760
Nick Bradbury,

748
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:06,560
who's one of the,

749
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:06,800
you know,

750
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:08,080
the author of Feed Demon,

751
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:09,120
one of which is now

752
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:10,240
supporting podcasting,

753
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:10,720
by the way.

754
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:11,120
Right on.

755
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:14,720
And I was saying that,

756
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:14,960
you know,

757
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:16,160
we're listening

758
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:16,800
and we're sort of

759
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:18,480
thrilled to see,

760
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:18,800
you know,

761
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:19,680
we're in the same room

762
00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:21,200
with Don and Drew, you know.

763
00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:23,520
But seriously,

764
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:25,360
this is the beginning of,

765
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:26,800
we're going to look back on this,

766
00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:28,000
not very long from now

767
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:28,800
and realize that

768
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:30,480
all of these players,

769
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:32,240
all of us in this room,

770
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:33,200
in this space,

771
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:36,000
pardon the expression,

772
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:38,720
are the next generation

773
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:40,000
of the media.

774
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:41,040
This is the new media

775
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:42,400
and it's being born right now

776
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:45,120
and this is a seriously big wave.

777
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:48,160
Is, did Michael Butler make it in?

778
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:51,200
Stand up, Michael.

779
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:52,000
This is Michael Butler

780
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:53,440
from the Rock and Roll Geek Show, everybody.

781
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:00,000
Something that Steve said,

782
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:02,240
I obviously want to lead into music

783
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:03,440
and as it relates

784
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:04,800
to what we're doing with podcasts.

785
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:06,800
It's great to be

786
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:08,880
in a law school,

787
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:10,640
to be able to talk about that.

788
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:13,600
I don't know if we need to go deep into stuff,

789
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:17,040
but Michael has been in a band

790
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:18,000
for about seven years,

791
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:20,000
I guess called American Heartbreak.

792
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:22,160
Yeah, I have all my CDs here for you too, by the way.

793
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:25,440
Why don't you tell us about yourself

794
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:26,960
and how you got into podcasting

795
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:28,480
and what's going on?

796
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:31,200
I stumbled across your site,

797
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:34,560
just goofing off one day,

798
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:35,520
avoiding my wife

799
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:39,200
and I'm really in the doghouse

800
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:40,240
right now too, by the way.

801
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:41,440
I got you, you know, everything okay?

802
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:43,920
We'll see how it is when I get home.

803
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:46,080
Anyway, so I stumbled across your site

804
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:49,280
and saw that you did an audio blog,

805
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:50,640
so I was like, hey, that might be kind of cool

806
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:52,640
because I was doing a blog for a long time

807
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:55,840
and every musician probably thinks they're a DJ

808
00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:57,840
and wants to turn everybody on to their music.

809
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:01,840
So I just tried it, played some music I like,

810
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:04,080
figured I'd throw my own band in there occasionally

811
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:05,840
and here it is.

812
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:08,880
Has it done anything?

813
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:10,400
Have you gotten any responses?

814
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:11,440
Has it done anything for you

815
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:12,800
or for the band or for your music?

816
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:14,800
Well, my site's been shut down a couple of times

817
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:17,760
for too much traffic, which I guess is kind of cool.

818
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:19,920
People have been,

819
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:22,000
a lot more people have been showing up to the shows,

820
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:23,040
get a lot of emails.

821
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:25,920
So you've been plugging me, I appreciate that.

822
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:27,440
Well, it's good stuff.

823
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:28,800
All right then.

824
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:32,000
And this is something that's a conversation

825
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:35,760
that's going on about, just about music in general

826
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:39,520
and are there any other radio people here who,

827
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:42,000
right there, it doesn't pipe up

828
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:42,960
any time you feel like it.

829
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:46,160
Radio, to me, is,

830
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:47,200
I'm going to bring the mic over to Tony,

831
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:50,960
has been the soundtrack to my life.

832
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:54,320
So, whether it doesn't even have to be music,

833
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:56,400
but music really works well in my brain.

834
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:00,880
What we don't have yet

835
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:03,440
or what we haven't had with what we're coining

836
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:08,480
non-RIAA music or music that basically,

837
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:11,040
that with the creator's permission,

838
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:12,320
you can play and don't have to deal

839
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:15,040
with a whole bunch of rights organizations

840
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:17,520
and payments and legalese.

841
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:21,760
Is it, yeah, you can go to garageband.com

842
00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:23,920
and surf through stuff and listen to it.

843
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:24,560
Yeah, you can go.

844
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:26,480
There's just a million places

845
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:28,000
with great independent music.

846
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:32,080
But to have someone you listen to

847
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:33,280
because you like the show

848
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:35,120
or you trust them or whatever you feel,

849
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:36,400
to say, oh, and by the way,

850
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:38,240
here's American Heartbreak

851
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:40,800
or here's Mo Jones.

852
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:42,640
I know I've sold at least one CD

853
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:44,400
to Steve Gilmore of Mo Jones.

854
00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:47,440
It becomes a whole different feeling

855
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:49,120
and it's like your friend

856
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:50,720
is recommending something to you.

857
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:52,560
It's almost intangible,

858
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:54,640
but it's starting to work so well,

859
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:56,080
in fact, that my daughter,

860
00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:58,400
who's a weblogger, she's 14,

861
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:00,000
she's a big fan of Good Charlotte.

862
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:01,680
She has a, her weblog is

863
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:03,360
land of the young and the hopeless.com.

864
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:08,720
And the opening band for the Good Charlotte tour

865
00:34:08,720 --> 00:34:10,400
is an unsigned band

866
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:11,280
called Three Quarters.

867
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:13,920
And she sent me the MP3.

868
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:15,520
She's not a podcaster yet,

869
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:16,800
but she said, hey dad,

870
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:18,080
you know, I'm talking to their manager

871
00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:19,600
and you got to play this on your show.

872
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:22,720
And think about what,

873
00:34:22,720 --> 00:34:23,760
and I'm going to,

874
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:24,720
you know, even if it sucks,

875
00:34:24,720 --> 00:34:25,840
I'm going to play it.

876
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:28,880
But this really important,

877
00:34:30,240 --> 00:34:31,280
that's how hits are born.

878
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:33,680
That's how music gets out there.

879
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:35,520
In the top 40 radio,

880
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:36,720
you know, you want to make sure

881
00:34:36,720 --> 00:34:38,320
that Z100 in New York

882
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:39,200
adds the record

883
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:40,480
to their playlist rotation

884
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:41,520
at the same time

885
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:43,040
KISS FM Los Angeles does it,

886
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:43,840
you know, because then,

887
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:45,120
of course, you'll pour some marketing

888
00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:46,800
on top and everyone's hearing it

889
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:48,240
and it starts to all gel together.

890
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:49,200
Tony?

891
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:52,320
I just wanted to ask you a question, Adam,

892
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:53,040
because I think,

893
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:55,360
you know, I'm thinking about this idea of,

894
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:58,560
well, users here really means producers,

895
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:01,040
you know, the users of all this technology

896
00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:03,360
of people who want to make a podcast.

897
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:05,760
And almost every,

898
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:07,760
for almost every podcaster I've spoken with,

899
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:11,920
the road has led to you as the podcaster,

900
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:14,720
because you sort of anthologized.

901
00:35:14,720 --> 00:35:16,560
Among other things, you set a tone,

902
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:18,080
you said, okay, this is going to be really personal.

903
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:18,880
It's going to be about me.

904
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:20,320
It's going to be about my relationship

905
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:22,160
with my wife and my kid.

906
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:24,240
It's going to be about my doing it out of my house.

907
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:26,400
It's going to be about me standing up

908
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:28,000
and walking around while I'm doing this

909
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:30,400
so that there was a very low buttock factor,

910
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:32,560
you know, as well in the broadcast.

911
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:33,280
You set a tone,

912
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:34,080
but you also said,

913
00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:35,920
I'm going to collect what you're sounding like

914
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:37,040
and play it back to you.

915
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:42,000
So you made everybody feel that there was something

916
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:44,960
that was possible that they could do

917
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:46,640
that would make a personal connection.

918
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:48,080
It's been very, very personal.

919
00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:49,840
And as someone from public radio,

920
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:53,040
I'm really trying to think about this personal side.

921
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:57,600
Do you think that there is something about podcasting

922
00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:01,520
that is going in a direction that is really different

923
00:36:02,720 --> 00:36:04,720
in terms of the kind of relationship

924
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:07,920
that listeners want to form with a podcast

925
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:10,160
that public radio should be looking at?

926
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:13,680
We see ourselves as content providers for thoughtful people,

927
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:15,280
but we may not be thinking enough

928
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:18,320
in terms of actually making direct connections

929
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:20,240
with people and having people want

930
00:36:20,240 --> 00:36:22,480
to connect with the people in public radio.

931
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:25,760
I yield my time to the distinguished gentleman

932
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:26,640
from Seattle.

933
00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:29,200
That was good.

934
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:30,320
That was good.

935
00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:34,160
That's like saying that it's like a blog.

936
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:37,520
I mean, Adam, and it's also like saying it's like MTV.

937
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:39,520
That's what Adam did on MTV, right?

938
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:42,640
So he would get the stars would come and wearing knee pads

939
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:44,640
to try to get them to play their song.

940
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:49,600
He gets that and he does it.

941
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:52,080
That's just his nature.

942
00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:56,880
And to Steve, it is just like a blog.

943
00:36:57,600 --> 00:36:59,600
I don't see that there's a difference.

944
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:00,960
I do a morning coffee notes.

945
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:03,840
I'm a writer and I'm a talker.

946
00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:04,960
Both.

947
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:06,880
And you get a different story

948
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:08,480
when it comes out of the mouth

949
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:11,120
than you do when it comes out of the fingers, right?

950
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:15,120
But I've gone back to writing morning coffee notes now.

951
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:17,040
And sometimes I feel like writing

952
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:18,400
and sometimes I feel like talking.

953
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:22,160
And I sort of just go with the flow, whatever.

954
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:24,960
And so I don't see one as annotating the other.

955
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:26,800
And so when Tony, you say that it could

956
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:30,880
fertilize public radio, of course it could.

957
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:34,000
And that's like saying that the New York Times

958
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:35,040
should be a weblog.

959
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:36,880
And the New York Times should be a weblog.

960
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:39,040
And the New York Times will be a weblog

961
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:40,000
at some point in the future.

962
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:44,720
Why doesn't the New York Times have an archive?

963
00:37:44,720 --> 00:37:47,040
Why can't I see what the front page

964
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:48,960
of the New York Times website looked like

965
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:50,000
on a specific date?

966
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:53,120
Is there any sense to not having that feature?

967
00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:54,400
Why wouldn't they want to have it?

968
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:56,960
But yet they don't...

969
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:00,080
There's some reluctance to actually

970
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:02,240
take an idea from outside of their...

971
00:38:02,240 --> 00:38:04,080
You know, they're sort of...

972
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:06,320
They're very insular and they want those ideas

973
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:07,680
to come self-generated.

974
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:09,280
But they'll do it at some point.

975
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:10,880
They'll also put stories up in reverse

976
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:12,560
chronological order because it's a very

977
00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:14,880
sensible way to put up stories, right?

978
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:17,440
So, yeah, you will distribute programs

979
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:19,920
that are created in amateur space.

980
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:22,560
You pretty kind of already do in some way.

981
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:27,200
And just the same way that a reporter

982
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:30,480
for NPR or a reporter for a newspaper

983
00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:34,320
quotes people that are experts on what they're doing.

984
00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:37,120
It's just the same idea applied to a different medium.

985
00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:39,680
And I'd say that one other comment

986
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:43,040
that is all going so much faster with podcasting

987
00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:47,040
because we don't have to wait for the traditional media

988
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:50,320
to figure out what we're doing to carry our message

989
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:51,680
because we can do it ourselves

990
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:52,640
because we already have one,

991
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:54,160
which is called the blogosphere.

992
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:57,040
And the blogosphere carries the message of podcasting

993
00:38:57,040 --> 00:38:59,840
and so this thing bootstraps up in one tenth,

994
00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:01,440
one one hundredth the time

995
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:03,280
that the blogosphere itself bootstrapped up

996
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:04,800
because we already get it.

997
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:06,000
We already understand

998
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:08,880
that the voice of an individual is a powerful thing

999
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:12,480
whereas there's sort of a sense in the professional world

1000
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:14,320
that they kind of know it,

1001
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:16,080
but they are in denial of it

1002
00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:18,400
and they need it as the security blanket

1003
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:21,280
because that's all between them and being on the street.

1004
00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:26,640
So anyway, it's kind of a way of thinking,

1005
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:27,920
I guess is what all I'm saying.

1006
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:29,760
Can you just bring the mic up there

1007
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:30,880
because now people are getting into it.

1008
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:31,360
This is good.

1009
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:34,960
Thanks.

1010
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:36,800
Chris Carthy from Half Moon Bay here

1011
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:38,080
in the great state of California.

1012
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:40,640
Question I have for the room

1013
00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:42,960
is how do we deal with the discrepancy

1014
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:44,400
between a podcast

1015
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:47,440
which is forced to be listened to

1016
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:48,960
and absorbed in real time

1017
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:51,600
versus the written word

1018
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:53,200
which can be scanned,

1019
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:54,560
which can be absorbed

1020
00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:58,160
and can be sort of self filtered

1021
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:01,120
in a quarter or a tenth of the time

1022
00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:02,560
as listening to something

1023
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:04,640
that you need to listen to

1024
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:07,280
at the rate it was created.

1025
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:12,080
Well, I'll just grab a couple of things there.

1026
00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:15,120
First of all, the iPod basically sucks

1027
00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:16,560
for a lot of your problems

1028
00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:18,000
because you can't fast forward

1029
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:20,400
and just jump ahead and jump back.

1030
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:22,800
So there's some definite interface issues.

1031
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:24,480
When I play songs in my podcast,

1032
00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:26,400
I say, or not always say,

1033
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:28,480
but I should say three minutes and 30 seconds

1034
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:29,600
if you don't want to hear it,

1035
00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:30,320
just skip ahead.

1036
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:31,200
I shouldn't have to say that.

1037
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:31,920
It should be just a button

1038
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:33,520
that kind of does something like that.

1039
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:38,720
You want to try it?

1040
00:40:38,720 --> 00:40:39,760
You want to jump in here?

1041
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:42,160
Yeah, maybe this takes this conversation

1042
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:43,600
in a little bit of a different direction.

1043
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:45,760
My name is Cole Jolly.

1044
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:46,640
I work for IDC

1045
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:49,200
and I'm a product manager.

1046
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:51,840
So I listen to problems

1047
00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:53,440
and I try to, like a yentai,

1048
00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:55,200
try to match solutions to problems.

1049
00:40:55,200 --> 00:41:01,440
And the constituency of end users

1050
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:03,440
that I listen to is a little bit different.

1051
00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:05,760
They're not necessarily producers

1052
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:07,680
or broadcasters per se,

1053
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:10,320
but they're like analysts on Wall Street

1054
00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:12,080
and bankers and people

1055
00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:13,520
that work for large corporations

1056
00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:14,800
that manufacture technology.

1057
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:18,160
And they have their own constituencies

1058
00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:19,440
that they broadcast to.

1059
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:22,560
And to this question,

1060
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:25,920
how can I put this?

1061
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:29,280
So podcasting, I got this immediately

1062
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:31,200
when I saw you talking about this

1063
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:32,960
in your conversations with Dave

1064
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:35,200
and I listened to your show.

1065
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:38,560
It's the logical next step of RSS for me,

1066
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:39,840
which I've been evangelizing

1067
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:41,360
into Wall Street now for two years.

1068
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:43,920
And all of a sudden, they got it this year.

1069
00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:45,680
Before they didn't,

1070
00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:47,680
they managed a lot of information all day long.

1071
00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:50,800
They need something faster than real time.

1072
00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:54,480
And to Steve Gilmore's point

1073
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:55,760
about metadata,

1074
00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:56,720
that we're at this point

1075
00:41:56,720 --> 00:41:58,480
where I need to be able to kind of index

1076
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:02,800
what you say and to crawl it quickly

1077
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:04,800
across all of these conversations

1078
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:06,160
and zero in like Google

1079
00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:08,400
to the point where I can find,

1080
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:11,360
you know, this pivotal information

1081
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:13,280
that causes me to make a decision,

1082
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:15,680
then I, as a, let's say I'm an analyst,

1083
00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:18,320
can turn around and broadcast,

1084
00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:20,400
podcast my analysis,

1085
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:21,440
I just got off of a call

1086
00:42:22,240 --> 00:42:23,920
with numbers being reported

1087
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:26,720
to the analysts that listens to me

1088
00:42:26,720 --> 00:42:27,920
and they make decisions,

1089
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:29,760
they make buy or sell decisions

1090
00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:33,120
that affect pension funds and economies.

1091
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:34,720
You just mentioned that,

1092
00:42:34,720 --> 00:42:35,600
I just wanted to bring up

1093
00:42:36,720 --> 00:42:37,600
a little bit less different.

1094
00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:38,640
It's different from music,

1095
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:41,840
but it's kind of the same thing,

1096
00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:43,440
which is all about this relationship.

1097
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:45,440
I just wanted to bring up a podcast

1098
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:46,960
that I bumped into the other day

1099
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:48,160
called Earnings Cast,

1100
00:42:48,720 --> 00:42:50,720
which is literally...

1101
00:42:50,720 --> 00:42:53,120
Today, welcome to the Audible 8th third quarter,

1102
00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:54,720
2004 Home Conference.

1103
00:42:55,600 --> 00:42:57,520
It's literally all the conference calls

1104
00:42:57,520 --> 00:42:58,400
of the quarters that,

1105
00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:01,120
you know, where the analysts call in

1106
00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:04,240
and talk about the latest earnings.

1107
00:43:04,240 --> 00:43:05,920
All of those are now coming in

1108
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:06,720
through podcasts.

1109
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:09,280
I'm not doing it,

1110
00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:12,640
but this is clearly an issue that...

1111
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:13,600
Metadata?

1112
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:14,960
Oh, sorry.

1113
00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:16,880
Okay.

1114
00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:18,880
When people wave frantically,

1115
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:20,160
you just got to go to them, I guess.

1116
00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:20,720
That's it, right.

1117
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:22,800
You can always throw something at me

1118
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:23,440
if I don't see you.

1119
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:23,920
That will help.

1120
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:30,960
Part of the reason I waved

1121
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:31,920
is I'm just so shocked

1122
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:33,120
because I'm doing earnings cast

1123
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:33,840
and you plugged it.

1124
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:37,280
But I do actually have something to say,

1125
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:40,400
which is a little bit

1126
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:42,960
more philosophical

1127
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:44,240
about what's going on here.

1128
00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:47,120
You know, I came home

1129
00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:48,240
from traveling last week

1130
00:43:48,240 --> 00:43:50,320
and my TV had been changed

1131
00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:51,520
and suddenly there were like

1132
00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:53,680
five channels of national public TV,

1133
00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:54,400
KQED.

1134
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:55,280
Why?

1135
00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:56,800
Because it changed to digital

1136
00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:58,400
and they've got more bandwidth.

1137
00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:00,240
So they've got tons of content

1138
00:44:00,240 --> 00:44:00,960
that they...

1139
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:01,600
On the analog,

1140
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:02,400
they could only get into...

1141
00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:03,440
They only had one channel.

1142
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:04,320
Suddenly on digital,

1143
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:06,240
they could put five channels there

1144
00:44:06,240 --> 00:44:06,960
on this...

1145
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:09,520
And so there's now five KQEDs on my TV.

1146
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:11,920
And I started thinking, you know,

1147
00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:13,200
podcasting basically means

1148
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:14,640
there's an unlimited number of channels.

1149
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:18,640
And that's going to dawn on people real quick

1150
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:20,720
because bandwidth suddenly becomes meaningless.

1151
00:44:20,720 --> 00:44:21,040
You can...

1152
00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:22,880
Insofar as you want

1153
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:24,480
to say something, you can.

1154
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:26,160
With the earnings cast,

1155
00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:29,440
you know, I was doing a job for a company

1156
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:31,760
and I wanted them to listen to Google's earnings call

1157
00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:33,680
because I thought they'd learn something from it.

1158
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:34,400
And they said,

1159
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:35,840
well, how am I going to get to listen to it?

1160
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:36,880
So I threw up a website

1161
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:38,720
and put it on for them to download.

1162
00:44:38,720 --> 00:44:40,240
And then I thought, just a minute,

1163
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:43,680
I could do this for a lot more about these things.

1164
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:45,920
And I kind of did earnings cast almost by accident.

1165
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:48,320
But I think the bottom line here is

1166
00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:50,480
there's an unlimited number of subjects,

1167
00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:51,680
content areas,

1168
00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:53,760
and there's an unlimited number of bandwidth.

1169
00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:55,840
And now there's an unlimited number of producers.

1170
00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:58,160
So I'm not so much worried

1171
00:44:58,160 --> 00:44:59,360
about having enough time in the day

1172
00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:00,160
to listen to stuff

1173
00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:02,080
because I'll just listen to what I'm interested in.

1174
00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:04,160
I do need help figuring out what's out there.

1175
00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:06,000
And I think that's a big deal.

1176
00:45:06,560 --> 00:45:08,160
But I think the world's going to change

1177
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:09,040
really, really quickly

1178
00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:11,360
and the whole meaning of consuming

1179
00:45:12,720 --> 00:45:14,320
all kinds of media is going to change

1180
00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:15,280
very, very quickly now.

1181
00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:16,240
Right.

1182
00:45:16,240 --> 00:45:17,120
Let's go down to the front here.

1183
00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:18,400
He's been very patient.

1184
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:18,560
Great.

1185
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:19,520
Oh, yeah.

1186
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:19,760
Don't touch the mic.

1187
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:20,960
I'll touch that mic.

1188
00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:21,200
Okay.

1189
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:21,360
Yeah.

1190
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:21,920
My name's Karen.

1191
00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:22,720
I'm just a user.

1192
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:23,760
But I...

1193
00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:28,640
Yeah, I mean, my comment was,

1194
00:45:28,640 --> 00:45:29,680
you know, it was 52 minutes

1195
00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:30,400
into this discussion

1196
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:32,400
before a non-famous person got to speak.

1197
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:35,200
So if you're pseudo famous

1198
00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:37,440
or anybody would recognize your name

1199
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:37,760
in the room,

1200
00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:39,760
it'd be great if you let a user speak for a while.

1201
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:41,360
But I just want to say

1202
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:43,600
one of the cool things about podcasting

1203
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:45,280
is now I started playing

1204
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:47,280
Grand Theft Auto San Andreas.

1205
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:48,640
And it has radio.

1206
00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:49,760
Yeah, it's great.

1207
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:51,360
But the thing is you get tired of the radio

1208
00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:53,840
in San Andreas pretty quickly.

1209
00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:55,120
So, you know, now I've started

1210
00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:56,960
overlaying podcasting in.

1211
00:45:56,960 --> 00:46:02,560
And so, and my wife is...

1212
00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:04,400
My wife's a vegetarian.

1213
00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:05,920
So, you know, I went to Adam's Directory

1214
00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:06,960
and I said, okay, well, you know,

1215
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:07,840
she likes vegetarian stuff,

1216
00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:09,680
so I'll start listening to vegan radio.

1217
00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:12,400
So now, so now I can play Grand Theft Auto

1218
00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:13,760
and like, you know, do drive-bys

1219
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:14,800
and shoot and stuff like that,

1220
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:16,320
as long as, you know,

1221
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:18,080
vegan talk is running in the background.

1222
00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:23,520
But it's, you know,

1223
00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:24,560
so the thing is, you know,

1224
00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:25,760
it's great that there's all these people

1225
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:27,440
in this room who have five days a week

1226
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:29,440
or seven days a week to do podcasts.

1227
00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:31,360
But, you know, I'm looking for a subtext

1228
00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:32,000
to my life.

1229
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:33,280
I'm looking for people to talk

1230
00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:36,240
about things that can interact with my life.

1231
00:46:36,240 --> 00:46:38,240
So, I hope people don't, you know,

1232
00:46:38,240 --> 00:46:39,840
feel that they have to jump into podcasts

1233
00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:41,040
and they have to do it five days a week.

1234
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:42,240
You know, what I'd love

1235
00:46:42,240 --> 00:46:44,080
is to be able to put in a DVD

1236
00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:45,920
and then put us,

1237
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:47,680
know that somebody watched the DVD with me

1238
00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:49,200
and then like had a bunch of their friends

1239
00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:50,720
just like chat about it

1240
00:46:50,720 --> 00:46:52,400
as they were watching so I could listen to it.

1241
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:53,520
So start thinking about how you're

1242
00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:56,480
going to plug yourself into people's lives

1243
00:46:56,480 --> 00:46:57,360
so that, you know,

1244
00:46:57,360 --> 00:46:59,280
we can use this podcasting medium

1245
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:01,040
to interact and provide a more personal

1246
00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:02,480
experience to things we share in comments.

1247
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:04,160
That's great. Thank you. That's a great comment.

1248
00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:09,280
I'm afraid now to say who's next,

1249
00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:10,960
you know, is a non-famous people here?

1250
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:14,080
Over here, don't mind.

1251
00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:17,200
Hi, I'm Joseph Palmer

1252
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:19,600
and I have all the words of the book

1253
00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:21,600
of the Monty Python skits.

1254
00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:23,920
So the answer to your question about

1255
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:27,520
whether the content has to flow

1256
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:28,800
at the rate you're reading it

1257
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:30,480
or the content should be vocal,

1258
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:31,280
guess what?

1259
00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:32,960
There are different kinds of stories

1260
00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:34,480
that can be told in different ways.

1261
00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:35,760
So if you read,

1262
00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:37,680
is your wife a goer?

1263
00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:39,120
Know what I mean?

1264
00:47:39,120 --> 00:47:39,920
Know what I mean?

1265
00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:40,720
That isn't funny.

1266
00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:41,920
Know what I mean?

1267
00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:42,880
Right?

1268
00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:45,680
So audio is good for things different than text.

1269
00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:48,320
You can do things in audio with music.

1270
00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:49,360
You can do things in audio

1271
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:50,560
with the pacing,

1272
00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:51,360
the timing

1273
00:47:51,360 --> 00:47:52,880
that you can't do in the text.

1274
00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:54,160
And that's,

1275
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:55,120
that's it.

1276
00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:55,520
I'm done.

1277
00:47:56,800 --> 00:47:57,840
And I'll just add to that.

1278
00:47:57,840 --> 00:48:00,320
I think that we've been conditioned by

1279
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:02,160
what media is,

1280
00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:04,880
what broadcast radio is certainly

1281
00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:06,800
is to expect it to be a certain way.

1282
00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:08,320
And it's very rare that you,

1283
00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:09,600
that you hear kind of burst out.

1284
00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:11,520
We've forgotten what audio is all about.

1285
00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:12,240
Audio is beautiful.

1286
00:48:12,240 --> 00:48:13,840
You can do so many things with it.

1287
00:48:13,840 --> 00:48:15,120
You can manipulate it

1288
00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:16,640
in so many fantastic ways,

1289
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:19,040
particularly in the digital realm.

1290
00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:20,080
I think we have,

1291
00:48:20,080 --> 00:48:21,520
we have a lot to relearn actually.

1292
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:23,520
Yeah, oh man,

1293
00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:24,640
we're never going to get to all this.

1294
00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:27,200
I'm Andy Abramson,

1295
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:28,560
co-host of the World Technology Roundup

1296
00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:29,280
on Ken Radio.

1297
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:30,800
We've been broadcasting on the internet

1298
00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:32,240
since 1994,

1299
00:48:32,240 --> 00:48:34,080
186,000 listeners we've grown

1300
00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:35,360
since 1998.

1301
00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:38,320
We look at podcasting very interestingly.

1302
00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:39,440
I look at it as,

1303
00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:41,120
as instead of mass media,

1304
00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:42,160
as very personal media,

1305
00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:43,120
very narrow casting,

1306
00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:44,640
it's not a matter of

1307
00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:46,960
how many people are listening,

1308
00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:48,160
it's who's listening.

1309
00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:49,360
And that's what really matters

1310
00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:50,400
because whether you have to write

1311
00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:51,200
10 people,

1312
00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:52,880
or the right 10,000 people,

1313
00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:53,840
that's the first,

1314
00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:54,880
most important thing

1315
00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:55,600
about all this.

1316
00:48:55,600 --> 00:48:56,400
Second,

1317
00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:57,040
you have,

1318
00:48:57,040 --> 00:48:57,840
as we talk about,

1319
00:48:57,840 --> 00:48:58,720
we don't break the news,

1320
00:48:58,720 --> 00:48:59,680
we fix it.

1321
00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:02,160
I think what we're going to see here

1322
00:49:02,160 --> 00:49:03,200
is a lot of

1323
00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:06,320
correction and accuracy

1324
00:49:06,320 --> 00:49:08,160
that the general media does not have.

1325
00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:10,000
There really is no oversight.

1326
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:11,360
Plays into the web log.

1327
00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:12,320
Plays into the web log

1328
00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:14,480
and you have this feedback mechanism

1329
00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:16,000
which is instantaneous,

1330
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:17,280
or you have a feedback mechanism

1331
00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:17,600
that says,

1332
00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:18,800
I just listened to what you said

1333
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:19,760
three weeks ago

1334
00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:21,040
and we see this with our

1335
00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:22,000
regular listeners now

1336
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:23,920
who correct us or point out things

1337
00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:25,200
and we play this little game

1338
00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:26,160
of I love blogs,

1339
00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:27,280
can hate blogs

1340
00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:29,280
and our listeners are the same way.

1341
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:30,000
Some of them like it,

1342
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:31,120
some of them don't.

1343
00:49:31,120 --> 00:49:32,880
But you're very accountable

1344
00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:34,320
and your audience becomes

1345
00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:34,960
your friends,

1346
00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:35,520
your family,

1347
00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:36,720
your community.

1348
00:49:36,720 --> 00:49:37,360
And again,

1349
00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:39,440
whether it's 10 or 10,000

1350
00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:40,720
or 10 million,

1351
00:49:40,720 --> 00:49:41,440
we're in an era of

1352
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:43,120
one-to-one communication.

1353
00:49:43,120 --> 00:49:44,960
We're in an era of where accuracy,

1354
00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:48,000
focus and targeting

1355
00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:49,920
is all being made apparent

1356
00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:51,920
by technologies like podcasting

1357
00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:53,520
and being powered by streaming.

1358
00:49:53,520 --> 00:49:54,000
So it doesn't matter

1359
00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:54,960
whether you listen live,

1360
00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:56,320
you listen on download,

1361
00:49:56,320 --> 00:49:57,360
you listen streaming.

1362
00:49:57,360 --> 00:49:58,640
You're hearing somebody's thoughts

1363
00:49:58,640 --> 00:49:59,760
and you have the ability then

1364
00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:01,280
to shape your opinions

1365
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:01,920
and feedback.

1366
00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:02,080
So.

1367
00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:02,640
Right.

1368
00:50:02,640 --> 00:50:03,840
I totally agree.

1369
00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:04,720
Just one thing I want to say

1370
00:50:04,720 --> 00:50:05,600
which also comes into the

1371
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:07,280
how do we consume all this information

1372
00:50:08,080 --> 00:50:10,080
if you're thinking about podcasting.

1373
00:50:10,720 --> 00:50:11,600
We're already setting

1374
00:50:11,600 --> 00:50:12,880
a whole bunch of rules

1375
00:50:12,880 --> 00:50:14,640
that we shouldn't be setting, I feel.

1376
00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:16,320
You don't have to create a show.

1377
00:50:16,320 --> 00:50:17,520
It doesn't have to be

1378
00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:18,720
an opening sequence.

1379
00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:20,560
Here's what's coming up.

1380
00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:21,680
It doesn't have to be

1381
00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:23,120
like what Dave is doing

1382
00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:25,920
or Donna Drew or Michael.

1383
00:50:26,720 --> 00:50:27,920
I would love to,

1384
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:28,720
like earnings cast,

1385
00:50:28,720 --> 00:50:30,320
that to me was a real eye-opener.

1386
00:50:30,320 --> 00:50:33,360
I'm waiting for a Wall Street analyst

1387
00:50:33,360 --> 00:50:36,000
to record a minute every morning

1388
00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:38,560
of here's the stock picks for today.

1389
00:50:38,560 --> 00:50:39,920
I would love to have someone

1390
00:50:40,560 --> 00:50:41,920
do a weather report

1391
00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:43,840
even though Pete Perdil did it for me once

1392
00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:46,560
of my hometown.

1393
00:50:47,120 --> 00:50:48,000
So that in the morning

1394
00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:49,040
when I just go through

1395
00:50:49,040 --> 00:50:50,080
all the new podcasts,

1396
00:50:50,080 --> 00:50:51,760
eventually I'll get exactly

1397
00:50:51,760 --> 00:50:52,240
what I want

1398
00:50:52,240 --> 00:50:53,520
and maybe even in the order I want it.

1399
00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:55,040
No, and here's a weather report.

1400
00:50:55,040 --> 00:50:57,440
So if you're thinking about

1401
00:50:57,440 --> 00:50:58,320
doing podcasting,

1402
00:50:58,320 --> 00:50:59,200
let's not get trapped

1403
00:50:59,200 --> 00:51:00,400
into it. It has to be a show.

1404
00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:03,200
But I think what we're learning here

1405
00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:05,280
is that what really makes it

1406
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:06,400
fun for everybody

1407
00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:07,600
is exactly that.

1408
00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:09,360
It sounds like you're having fun.

1409
00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:10,880
Like you're just

1410
00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:12,640
the way you might write on your weblog.

1411
00:51:12,640 --> 00:51:14,080
I think that's a really important

1412
00:51:15,280 --> 00:51:16,080
important part of what we're doing.

1413
00:51:16,080 --> 00:51:17,200
Is anyone at this point

1414
00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:18,400
who does not understand

1415
00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:19,280
what we're talking about

1416
00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:19,680
and saying,

1417
00:51:19,680 --> 00:51:20,960
help, I'm lost.

1418
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:21,920
I don't get it.

1419
00:51:21,920 --> 00:51:23,520
What the fuck is going on?

1420
00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:24,880
Sir, please.

1421
00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:25,600
Take the mic to him.

1422
00:51:27,600 --> 00:51:28,880
I knew I had to give me the microphone.

1423
00:51:30,160 --> 00:51:30,480
Sorry.

1424
00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:32,080
One thing I think is kind of

1425
00:51:32,080 --> 00:51:33,920
interesting is in the contrast here

1426
00:51:33,920 --> 00:51:34,880
is that if you go on

1427
00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:35,600
and listen to the people

1428
00:51:35,600 --> 00:51:37,200
that basically grew up with the technology,

1429
00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:38,000
still in the language

1430
00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:40,560
formation phase of their existence,

1431
00:51:40,560 --> 00:51:41,360
they're actually going

1432
00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:42,560
and relate to the technology

1433
00:51:42,560 --> 00:51:43,760
a lot differently

1434
00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:44,720
than the old fogies,

1435
00:51:44,720 --> 00:51:45,120
in fact,

1436
00:51:45,120 --> 00:51:46,320
that a lot have been speaking.

1437
00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:46,880
In particular,

1438
00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:47,600
if you go on and listen

1439
00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:48,640
to the guy that winds up

1440
00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:50,320
overlaying vegan talk radio

1441
00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:50,880
or whatever it is

1442
00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:52,800
over a grand theft auto thing,

1443
00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:53,760
that strikes me.

1444
00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:55,520
Maybe I'm off here

1445
00:51:55,520 --> 00:51:57,200
as a fundamentally different experience

1446
00:51:57,200 --> 00:51:57,840
than going on

1447
00:51:57,840 --> 00:51:59,280
and podcasting out

1448
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:02,000
financial reports

1449
00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:03,200
every morning on stuff.

1450
00:52:03,200 --> 00:52:04,080
One thing I'd be interested

1451
00:52:04,080 --> 00:52:04,960
in getting feedback from,

1452
00:52:04,960 --> 00:52:05,360
in fact,

1453
00:52:05,360 --> 00:52:06,240
is guys,

1454
00:52:06,240 --> 00:52:07,120
I guess the requirement

1455
00:52:07,120 --> 00:52:08,320
is that they're under 25

1456
00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:09,360
and have been using a computer

1457
00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:10,640
for at least 15 years.

1458
00:52:10,640 --> 00:52:11,360
How do they go on

1459
00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:12,720
and relate to the media?

1460
00:52:12,720 --> 00:52:13,360
How do they go on

1461
00:52:13,360 --> 00:52:14,400
and see this thing being used

1462
00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:15,200
and how does it integrate

1463
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:16,160
with their life day to day?

1464
00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:16,640
That's kind of,

1465
00:52:16,640 --> 00:52:17,600
I guess, an open question.

1466
00:52:17,600 --> 00:52:18,880
Does anyone want to tackle that?

1467
00:52:19,840 --> 00:52:24,240
I'm not going to touch it then.

1468
00:52:28,960 --> 00:52:29,440
Just,

1469
00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:31,360
well, Dave just gave me a note of paper.

1470
00:52:31,360 --> 00:52:32,240
I'm going to get to that in a second.

1471
00:52:32,240 --> 00:52:33,520
Let's just grab one more here.

1472
00:52:34,320 --> 00:52:36,080
So there's been a lot of talk here

1473
00:52:36,080 --> 00:52:37,920
about the need for annotation,

1474
00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:41,600
the need for being able to find the good stuff.

1475
00:52:41,600 --> 00:52:43,360
And so I think it's maybe important

1476
00:52:43,360 --> 00:52:46,320
to consider from a user perspective

1477
00:52:46,320 --> 00:52:48,320
what a user will expect

1478
00:52:48,400 --> 00:52:50,640
to use all of these annotations.

1479
00:52:50,640 --> 00:52:52,080
How will they consume them?

1480
00:52:52,080 --> 00:52:53,120
And so one of the things

1481
00:52:53,120 --> 00:52:54,400
I've been thinking about,

1482
00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:55,440
by the way, I'm Brendan Wilson,

1483
00:52:55,440 --> 00:52:56,080
forgot about that,

1484
00:52:57,920 --> 00:53:00,720
is if you consider blogging

1485
00:53:00,720 --> 00:53:01,520
as sort of like

1486
00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:06,960
an uncensored letters to the editor almost,

1487
00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:07,280
right?

1488
00:53:07,280 --> 00:53:08,320
Someone puts something up

1489
00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:10,160
and everyone can respond to it.

1490
00:53:10,160 --> 00:53:12,720
You can consider that podcasting

1491
00:53:12,720 --> 00:53:13,760
with annotations

1492
00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:16,320
becomes like the radio call-in show,

1493
00:53:16,320 --> 00:53:17,760
Howard Stern on PCP.

1494
00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:21,760
So I think it'd be really interesting

1495
00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:23,280
despite the limitations of,

1496
00:53:23,280 --> 00:53:24,960
say, the iPod and what it can do,

1497
00:53:25,760 --> 00:53:27,040
I think there's a possibility

1498
00:53:27,040 --> 00:53:28,160
for more intelligence

1499
00:53:28,160 --> 00:53:30,560
in the software on the client side

1500
00:53:30,560 --> 00:53:31,920
to sort of pull down,

1501
00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:33,680
I pull down Adam's show,

1502
00:53:33,680 --> 00:53:34,960
someone pulls and says,

1503
00:53:34,960 --> 00:53:36,640
hey, this section's quite interesting.

1504
00:53:36,640 --> 00:53:37,760
A number of other people

1505
00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:39,760
add that interesting information.

1506
00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:41,520
And then my iPod or software

1507
00:53:41,520 --> 00:53:42,480
remixes it

1508
00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:45,120
so I can either listen to the whole show,

1509
00:53:45,120 --> 00:53:46,480
listen to the greatest hits

1510
00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:48,160
that people said were interesting,

1511
00:53:48,160 --> 00:53:49,440
or sort of listen to it

1512
00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:50,960
with the interjections

1513
00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:52,720
within Adam's show.

1514
00:53:52,720 --> 00:53:53,520
You know, he says this

1515
00:53:53,520 --> 00:53:56,160
and then oh, so-and-so thinks this after it.

1516
00:53:56,880 --> 00:53:58,480
That's what I would expect as a user

1517
00:53:58,480 --> 00:53:59,440
to be able to use this

1518
00:53:59,440 --> 00:54:01,600
in a completely away from my computer,

1519
00:54:01,600 --> 00:54:02,720
sitting on my iPod,

1520
00:54:03,360 --> 00:54:04,880
but limiting the amount of time

1521
00:54:04,880 --> 00:54:05,840
I'm spending on this.

1522
00:54:08,240 --> 00:54:09,920
Maybe you're a shill that Dave put there,

1523
00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:11,120
but the note that Dave gave me

1524
00:54:11,120 --> 00:54:12,880
was how could the iPod work better?

1525
00:54:13,440 --> 00:54:16,480
Open standard remixes allow a lot of-

1526
00:54:16,480 --> 00:54:17,040
Oh!

1527
00:54:17,040 --> 00:54:17,600
Oh!

1528
00:54:17,600 --> 00:54:17,840
Oh!

1529
00:54:17,840 --> 00:54:18,240
Oh!

1530
00:54:18,240 --> 00:54:18,480
Oh!

1531
00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:18,640
Oh!

1532
00:54:18,640 --> 00:54:19,040
Oh!

1533
00:54:19,040 --> 00:54:19,280
Oh!

1534
00:54:19,280 --> 00:54:19,600
Oh!

1535
00:54:19,600 --> 00:54:20,080
Oh!

1536
00:54:20,080 --> 00:54:20,400
Oh!

1537
00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:20,640
Oh!

1538
00:54:20,640 --> 00:54:20,880
Oh!

1539
00:54:20,880 --> 00:54:21,200
Oh!

1540
00:54:21,200 --> 00:54:21,440
Oh!

1541
00:54:21,440 --> 00:54:21,680
Oh!

1542
00:54:21,680 --> 00:54:22,000
Oh!

1543
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:22,240
Oh!

1544
00:54:22,240 --> 00:54:22,800
Oh!

1545
00:54:22,800 --> 00:54:23,040
Oh!

1546
00:54:23,040 --> 00:54:24,240
You want to say anything else

1547
00:54:24,240 --> 00:54:24,880
with the microphone?

1548
00:54:26,880 --> 00:54:27,680
I'm sorry.

1549
00:54:28,400 --> 00:54:29,920
Yeah, making it an open standard

1550
00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:30,640
allow people to write

1551
00:54:30,640 --> 00:54:31,600
third-party applications

1552
00:54:31,600 --> 00:54:36,240
that'll run on the iPod hardware.

1553
00:54:36,240 --> 00:54:37,280
I mean, I haven't bought it

1554
00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:38,240
because I don't want to get

1555
00:54:38,240 --> 00:54:40,080
locked into a fixed standard.

1556
00:54:40,080 --> 00:54:41,040
I mean, last week,

1557
00:54:41,040 --> 00:54:42,080
you know, Apple just chose

1558
00:54:42,160 --> 00:54:42,800
to shut it off,

1559
00:54:42,800 --> 00:54:44,000
shut off some functionality.

1560
00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:44,960
I'm not going to buy into that.

1561
00:54:45,760 --> 00:54:46,640
Does anyone want to talk

1562
00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:48,560
about who is not using an iPod

1563
00:54:48,560 --> 00:54:49,600
but another MP3 player

1564
00:54:49,600 --> 00:54:51,040
they think is better than an iPod?

1565
00:54:51,040 --> 00:54:51,920
I'd love to hear that

1566
00:54:51,920 --> 00:54:52,800
because I-

1567
00:54:52,800 --> 00:54:53,120
Go ahead.

1568
00:54:54,080 --> 00:54:55,200
Stacey Kramer from

1569
00:54:55,200 --> 00:54:56,400
online journalism review

1570
00:54:56,400 --> 00:54:58,000
and paid content, etc.

1571
00:54:58,880 --> 00:55:00,480
And I'm not actually using-

1572
00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:01,920
I mean, I have access

1573
00:55:01,920 --> 00:55:02,880
to a lot of different ways

1574
00:55:02,880 --> 00:55:03,280
to do this

1575
00:55:03,280 --> 00:55:04,960
and I've started trying to,

1576
00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:06,720
but I'm concerned

1577
00:55:06,720 --> 00:55:08,240
about the fixation on iPod

1578
00:55:09,280 --> 00:55:10,480
and a little bit concerned

1579
00:55:10,480 --> 00:55:11,760
about the podcasting name

1580
00:55:11,760 --> 00:55:12,480
in that respect

1581
00:55:12,480 --> 00:55:13,600
because it leads people

1582
00:55:13,600 --> 00:55:14,320
to the idea

1583
00:55:15,520 --> 00:55:16,560
that you can only do this

1584
00:55:16,560 --> 00:55:17,680
effectively with an iPod.

1585
00:55:17,680 --> 00:55:18,320
And guess what?

1586
00:55:18,320 --> 00:55:19,200
When you start to try

1587
00:55:19,200 --> 00:55:19,680
and do it

1588
00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:20,720
with all the other different

1589
00:55:20,720 --> 00:55:21,600
things you have access to

1590
00:55:21,600 --> 00:55:22,880
to play MP3s,

1591
00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:23,840
it's not easy.

1592
00:55:25,120 --> 00:55:26,480
I started just downloading

1593
00:55:26,480 --> 00:55:27,520
things piece by piece

1594
00:55:27,520 --> 00:55:28,640
from IT conversations

1595
00:55:28,640 --> 00:55:29,600
to take here

1596
00:55:29,600 --> 00:55:30,800
because I couldn't figure out

1597
00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:31,760
how to make it all work.

1598
00:55:32,320 --> 00:55:32,960
I'm glad you're here

1599
00:55:32,960 --> 00:55:34,080
and I'm glad you're saying this

1600
00:55:34,080 --> 00:55:37,360
because just like I said

1601
00:55:37,360 --> 00:55:39,280
my original iPod program

1602
00:55:39,280 --> 00:55:39,760
sucked,

1603
00:55:40,720 --> 00:55:42,000
in general I think

1604
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:42,560
most of the people

1605
00:55:42,560 --> 00:55:43,760
who are working on these programs

1606
00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:44,400
will think that

1607
00:55:44,400 --> 00:55:45,600
there's a lot of work to be done

1608
00:55:45,600 --> 00:55:46,400
and hearing that

1609
00:55:47,120 --> 00:55:47,520
from you

1610
00:55:48,400 --> 00:55:48,800
is like,

1611
00:55:49,520 --> 00:55:50,480
here's a great opportunity.

1612
00:55:50,480 --> 00:55:51,360
We have to figure out

1613
00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:52,400
how to make that better for you

1614
00:55:52,400 --> 00:55:53,600
so that it does work.

1615
00:55:53,600 --> 00:55:54,480
The name thing though,

1616
00:55:55,280 --> 00:55:56,400
it's unchangeable.

1617
00:55:56,400 --> 00:55:57,040
Forget about it.

1618
00:55:57,040 --> 00:55:57,520
It's out there.

1619
00:55:57,520 --> 00:55:58,880
We'll never change that.

1620
00:55:58,880 --> 00:55:59,600
I realize that.

1621
00:55:59,600 --> 00:56:00,960
I think that requires

1622
00:56:00,960 --> 00:56:02,080
a little better education

1623
00:56:02,080 --> 00:56:02,880
from people

1624
00:56:02,880 --> 00:56:03,600
and a little better sense

1625
00:56:03,600 --> 00:56:04,720
of removing the concept

1626
00:56:04,720 --> 00:56:05,680
of podcasting

1627
00:56:05,680 --> 00:56:07,200
from the hardware

1628
00:56:07,200 --> 00:56:08,400
of iPod

1629
00:56:08,400 --> 00:56:09,360
to a lot of people.

1630
00:56:09,440 --> 00:56:10,560
The other thing I would just point out

1631
00:56:10,560 --> 00:56:11,760
is not everybody is listening

1632
00:56:11,760 --> 00:56:13,040
to this on portable players

1633
00:56:14,240 --> 00:56:16,480
or on little gadgets.

1634
00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:17,280
I mean, I'm sitting here.

1635
00:56:17,280 --> 00:56:18,320
I've got a pocket PC.

1636
00:56:18,320 --> 00:56:19,040
I've got a laptop

1637
00:56:19,040 --> 00:56:20,640
I was traveling with yesterday.

1638
00:56:20,640 --> 00:56:21,760
I could listen to this

1639
00:56:21,760 --> 00:56:22,720
on any of these.

1640
00:56:23,360 --> 00:56:25,040
And so I think that's,

1641
00:56:25,040 --> 00:56:27,360
my phone has MP3 capability.

1642
00:56:27,920 --> 00:56:29,920
So I would like to just encourage

1643
00:56:29,920 --> 00:56:32,400
us to keep in mind

1644
00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:34,000
the variance of platforms

1645
00:56:34,000 --> 00:56:34,960
that people are using

1646
00:56:34,960 --> 00:56:35,920
and not only think of this

1647
00:56:35,920 --> 00:56:37,440
as a tiny mobile concept.

1648
00:56:38,000 --> 00:56:39,520
And excellent.

1649
00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:41,120
Because I totally agree with you.

1650
00:56:41,120 --> 00:56:42,560
And there are things

1651
00:56:42,560 --> 00:56:43,520
Steve Gilmore came up

1652
00:56:43,520 --> 00:56:45,760
with a number of 650 million

1653
00:56:45,760 --> 00:56:46,800
new MP3 players

1654
00:56:46,800 --> 00:56:48,000
that are going to come into the market

1655
00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:49,200
in cell phones.

1656
00:56:49,200 --> 00:56:50,080
And what's really neat

1657
00:56:50,080 --> 00:56:51,680
about cell phones is,

1658
00:56:51,680 --> 00:56:52,720
oh, yeah, they're connected.

1659
00:56:53,600 --> 00:56:54,480
And they can be connected

1660
00:56:54,480 --> 00:56:55,360
through multiple ways.

1661
00:56:55,360 --> 00:56:56,720
I think you're absolutely right.

1662
00:56:56,720 --> 00:56:58,080
And we need to work on that.

1663
00:56:58,080 --> 00:56:59,280
So, you know,

1664
00:56:59,280 --> 00:57:00,480
this is where the developers

1665
00:57:00,480 --> 00:57:02,640
should start to raise their hands.

1666
00:57:04,560 --> 00:57:05,680
That one looks like a developer.

1667
00:57:05,680 --> 00:57:06,480
Could you please...

1668
00:57:11,200 --> 00:57:12,720
Hi, my name is Mike Levin,

1669
00:57:12,720 --> 00:57:13,600
MikeLevin.net.

1670
00:57:13,600 --> 00:57:14,480
And I have a podcast

1671
00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:15,840
called Podcast from the Swamp.

1672
00:57:17,600 --> 00:57:18,160
One thing...

1673
00:57:19,040 --> 00:57:19,600
Yeah, thanks.

1674
00:57:20,320 --> 00:57:22,080
One thing that we can do,

1675
00:57:23,760 --> 00:57:25,600
everyone who creates a podcast,

1676
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:28,000
even if you're not a developer,

1677
00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:31,200
you have to create the RSS XML feed.

1678
00:57:31,760 --> 00:57:34,080
And you can put keywords in there.

1679
00:57:34,080 --> 00:57:35,520
And that's how search engines work.

1680
00:57:35,680 --> 00:57:39,520
So, if you want your podcast to be indexed...

1681
00:57:43,520 --> 00:57:44,880
You just put it like that, yeah.

1682
00:57:45,760 --> 00:57:47,280
If you want your podcast to be indexed

1683
00:57:47,280 --> 00:57:48,800
and picked up by search engines,

1684
00:57:48,800 --> 00:57:49,680
you could put,

1685
00:57:49,680 --> 00:57:51,600
I guess you could call it a pod roll

1686
00:57:51,600 --> 00:57:52,960
or something like that in there.

1687
00:57:52,960 --> 00:57:55,040
You can name the topics

1688
00:57:55,040 --> 00:57:56,160
that you cover.

1689
00:57:56,720 --> 00:57:59,280
And then the search engines

1690
00:57:59,280 --> 00:58:00,000
will pick it up.

1691
00:58:02,480 --> 00:58:04,400
As far as the iPod

1692
00:58:04,560 --> 00:58:07,520
and podcast moniker,

1693
00:58:08,560 --> 00:58:10,000
I guess after a while,

1694
00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:12,640
we started calling photocopies Xeroxes.

1695
00:58:13,280 --> 00:58:14,960
And, you know, whatever.

1696
00:58:14,960 --> 00:58:15,920
It's a catchy word.

1697
00:58:16,640 --> 00:58:17,600
I think the important thing

1698
00:58:17,600 --> 00:58:18,640
is that people understand

1699
00:58:18,640 --> 00:58:19,840
what the word means.

1700
00:58:19,840 --> 00:58:21,600
It's unfortunate that it's a brand name,

1701
00:58:22,160 --> 00:58:24,720
but that's just how it goes.

1702
00:58:26,320 --> 00:58:28,320
John Dvorak wrote an article

1703
00:58:28,880 --> 00:58:30,960
kind of putting down a podcasting.

1704
00:58:31,760 --> 00:58:32,560
Oh, no, no, no, no.

1705
00:58:32,560 --> 00:58:33,680
Hold on, hold on, hold on.

1706
00:58:34,160 --> 00:58:35,440
I want to say publicly,

1707
00:58:35,440 --> 00:58:36,880
I agree with John Dvorak.

1708
00:58:37,600 --> 00:58:41,040
It's not there yet for everyone.

1709
00:58:41,040 --> 00:58:42,240
It is not easy.

1710
00:58:42,240 --> 00:58:43,120
It doesn't work.

1711
00:58:43,120 --> 00:58:43,840
Shit breaks.

1712
00:58:43,840 --> 00:58:44,960
You're falling off the edge.

1713
00:58:46,240 --> 00:58:47,280
We'll kick his ass later

1714
00:58:47,280 --> 00:58:48,640
when we have it all fixed.

1715
00:58:48,640 --> 00:58:49,360
Don't get me wrong.

1716
00:58:50,080 --> 00:58:51,040
But I think he's right

1717
00:58:51,040 --> 00:58:51,840
at this moment in time.

1718
00:58:51,840 --> 00:58:52,400
Sorry.

1719
00:58:52,400 --> 00:58:53,120
Oh, well, that's okay.

1720
00:58:53,120 --> 00:58:53,920
Well, I mean,

1721
00:58:53,920 --> 00:58:54,800
you know, he pointed out

1722
00:58:54,800 --> 00:58:56,480
a couple of things about podcasting

1723
00:58:56,480 --> 00:58:58,000
that, you know, some podcasts...

1724
00:58:58,640 --> 00:58:59,760
Well, some podcasters

1725
00:58:59,760 --> 00:59:00,960
look like they came from

1726
00:59:00,960 --> 00:59:02,160
High Times Magazine.

1727
00:59:04,640 --> 00:59:06,080
Where's the lighter click, everybody?

1728
00:59:09,200 --> 00:59:10,560
Yeah, I wasn't sure

1729
00:59:10,560 --> 00:59:11,440
where he was coming from

1730
00:59:11,440 --> 00:59:12,080
with that one.

1731
00:59:12,080 --> 00:59:15,520
And you know that some podcasts

1732
00:59:15,520 --> 00:59:17,360
may not be that interesting?

1733
00:59:17,360 --> 00:59:19,280
Well, I don't know about that either.

1734
00:59:19,280 --> 00:59:20,560
Anyway, I wrote a response

1735
00:59:21,600 --> 00:59:23,920
to his article in PC World.

1736
00:59:25,680 --> 00:59:31,600
But anyway, the idea of podrolling

1737
00:59:31,600 --> 00:59:32,880
and adding keywords

1738
00:59:32,880 --> 00:59:35,280
to your RSS.XML feed,

1739
00:59:35,280 --> 00:59:37,120
I think would really help

1740
00:59:37,120 --> 00:59:38,720
add relevance to the podcast

1741
00:59:38,720 --> 00:59:40,800
because it's hard to search

1742
00:59:40,800 --> 00:59:42,160
and audio feed.

1743
00:59:42,160 --> 00:59:42,960
I don't think we have

1744
00:59:42,960 --> 00:59:44,080
very good technology

1745
00:59:44,080 --> 00:59:45,440
to do that kind of thing yet.

1746
00:59:46,480 --> 00:59:47,680
But index, you know,

1747
00:59:47,680 --> 00:59:49,600
keywords would help us approach that.

1748
00:59:50,560 --> 00:59:52,480
I'm just going to take this

1749
00:59:52,480 --> 00:59:53,440
discussion for a second

1750
00:59:53,440 --> 00:59:54,640
because everyone's talking about

1751
00:59:54,640 --> 00:59:56,960
now we're getting into metadata

1752
00:59:56,960 --> 00:59:57,680
and all these words

1753
00:59:57,680 --> 00:59:58,640
that maybe not everybody

1754
00:59:58,640 --> 00:59:59,200
understands.

1755
00:59:59,200 --> 01:00:00,400
I just want to show something

1756
01:00:00,400 --> 01:00:01,360
that I'm working on,

1757
01:00:01,440 --> 01:00:02,480
which is basically the next

1758
01:00:02,480 --> 01:00:03,360
crappy program

1759
01:00:03,360 --> 01:00:04,240
that I'm going to throw out there,

1760
01:00:04,240 --> 01:00:04,560
I hope.

1761
01:00:06,560 --> 01:00:07,760
It doesn't work at all right now,

1762
01:00:07,760 --> 01:00:08,560
but at least you can kind of

1763
01:00:08,560 --> 01:00:10,320
get the idea as to what I'm doing.

1764
01:00:11,760 --> 01:00:14,160
The iPod directory, which,

1765
01:00:14,160 --> 01:00:14,800
yeah, here it is,

1766
01:00:16,640 --> 01:00:19,120
which I'm trying to help everyone,

1767
01:00:19,120 --> 01:00:19,840
you know, we're all working

1768
01:00:19,840 --> 01:00:22,000
together to build this out,

1769
01:00:22,000 --> 01:00:24,400
is based upon OPML.

1770
01:00:25,200 --> 01:00:26,400
And on the other side

1771
01:00:26,400 --> 01:00:27,120
of the screen here,

1772
01:00:27,120 --> 01:00:29,040
you can see my Outliner,

1773
01:00:29,040 --> 01:00:30,240
which is an Outliner

1774
01:00:30,240 --> 01:00:31,200
in Radio User Land.

1775
01:00:32,080 --> 01:00:33,440
And that is literally

1776
01:00:33,440 --> 01:00:34,880
the same as that.

1777
01:00:36,720 --> 01:00:37,760
So if you go to,

1778
01:00:37,760 --> 01:00:38,400
well, what's new

1779
01:00:38,400 --> 01:00:39,360
is already open here.

1780
01:00:40,000 --> 01:00:40,720
This is interesting

1781
01:00:40,720 --> 01:00:41,440
doing it this way.

1782
01:00:42,560 --> 01:00:43,200
And if you click on

1783
01:00:43,200 --> 01:00:44,000
what's new here,

1784
01:00:45,760 --> 01:00:47,120
and you'll see the representation

1785
01:00:47,920 --> 01:00:49,360
of exactly the same things.

1786
01:00:49,920 --> 01:00:52,000
Now, the point

1787
01:00:52,000 --> 01:00:53,200
where it gets cool

1788
01:00:53,200 --> 01:00:53,920
is that I don't own

1789
01:00:53,920 --> 01:00:54,720
this directory.

1790
01:00:55,840 --> 01:00:56,800
It's not, you know,

1791
01:00:56,800 --> 01:00:58,400
I own the top level

1792
01:00:58,400 --> 01:00:59,040
that I showed you,

1793
01:00:59,040 --> 01:00:59,920
which is there,

1794
01:01:00,000 --> 01:01:01,040
because I basically put

1795
01:01:01,040 --> 01:01:02,720
some categories in place,

1796
01:01:02,720 --> 01:01:04,800
but I'm not maintaining

1797
01:01:04,800 --> 01:01:05,840
this entire thing.

1798
01:01:05,840 --> 01:01:06,800
In fact, I'm maintaining

1799
01:01:06,800 --> 01:01:07,680
very, very little

1800
01:01:07,680 --> 01:01:08,880
of it at this point

1801
01:01:08,880 --> 01:01:10,000
because anyone

1802
01:01:10,000 --> 01:01:11,120
who can create

1803
01:01:11,120 --> 01:01:12,560
an OPML document

1804
01:01:12,560 --> 01:01:14,160
and just think HTML,

1805
01:01:14,160 --> 01:01:14,480
you know,

1806
01:01:14,480 --> 01:01:15,840
there are programs

1807
01:01:15,840 --> 01:01:16,400
that will do this,

1808
01:01:16,400 --> 01:01:17,040
there are editors,

1809
01:01:17,040 --> 01:01:18,080
it's not very complicated.

1810
01:01:18,080 --> 01:01:18,960
You don't have to know

1811
01:01:18,960 --> 01:01:19,680
a hell of a lot

1812
01:01:19,680 --> 01:01:21,440
except how to just basically

1813
01:01:21,440 --> 01:01:23,360
type and paste in links.

1814
01:01:24,400 --> 01:01:25,040
They can become

1815
01:01:25,040 --> 01:01:26,080
a part of this directory.

1816
01:01:26,080 --> 01:01:28,000
So just to show you,

1817
01:01:30,880 --> 01:01:31,680
sorry, under,

1818
01:01:33,360 --> 01:01:33,920
where am I?

1819
01:01:35,120 --> 01:01:35,840
I want to go back

1820
01:01:36,880 --> 01:01:37,760
to categories.

1821
01:01:40,400 --> 01:01:41,440
Is this working?

1822
01:01:44,400 --> 01:01:44,800
Okay.

1823
01:01:44,800 --> 01:01:45,520
Well, that's coming up

1824
01:01:45,520 --> 01:01:46,560
and I'll show you the

1825
01:01:46,560 --> 01:01:47,600
categories here.

1826
01:01:49,760 --> 01:01:51,280
So anything that

1827
01:01:51,280 --> 01:01:52,320
that has this little arrow

1828
01:01:52,320 --> 01:01:53,360
is basically a link

1829
01:01:53,360 --> 01:01:55,040
to someone else's

1830
01:01:55,040 --> 01:01:55,520
maintain,

1831
01:01:55,520 --> 01:01:56,720
someone else's OPML.

1832
01:01:57,440 --> 01:01:58,480
So if I were to open

1833
01:01:58,480 --> 01:01:59,600
a health and fitness

1834
01:01:59,920 --> 01:02:01,120
I'm maintaining that

1835
01:02:01,120 --> 01:02:02,400
and here's a link to

1836
01:02:03,840 --> 01:02:05,600
to the RSS feed

1837
01:02:05,600 --> 01:02:06,640
for that particular show.

1838
01:02:07,280 --> 01:02:08,720
But if we look at the music node

1839
01:02:10,560 --> 01:02:11,360
and if I double click

1840
01:02:11,360 --> 01:02:12,320
you see that it's a link

1841
01:02:12,320 --> 01:02:13,120
so actually

1842
01:02:13,120 --> 01:02:14,400
just to show you that

1843
01:02:18,880 --> 01:02:19,520
get info

1844
01:02:20,240 --> 01:02:22,240
it's going to a guy in Holland,

1845
01:02:22,240 --> 01:02:23,520
Hans von Rand

1846
01:02:23,520 --> 01:02:25,120
and that's his OPML file.

1847
01:02:26,560 --> 01:02:27,200
Now in my

1848
01:02:28,160 --> 01:02:29,920
Outliner when I click that

1849
01:02:29,920 --> 01:02:30,960
it's basically bringing that

1850
01:02:30,960 --> 01:02:31,920
OPML file

1851
01:02:32,480 --> 01:02:33,760
and everything associated

1852
01:02:33,760 --> 01:02:34,000
with it

1853
01:02:34,000 --> 01:02:35,040
and it's going to expand it.

1854
01:02:35,040 --> 01:02:36,240
Hope, oh no, I'm sorry

1855
01:02:36,240 --> 01:02:37,600
I'm no longer connected

1856
01:02:37,600 --> 01:02:38,320
it's not going to do that.

1857
01:02:39,600 --> 01:02:40,480
But the way it looks

1858
01:02:41,280 --> 01:02:41,920
over on the

1859
01:02:43,120 --> 01:02:44,400
on the iPod directory

1860
01:02:44,400 --> 01:02:45,040
under music.

1861
01:02:48,880 --> 01:02:49,600
Oops, that was

1862
01:02:49,600 --> 01:02:50,400
that wasn't that was

1863
01:02:51,520 --> 01:02:52,400
Yeah, no problem Michael.

1864
01:02:54,720 --> 01:02:55,760
There we go music.

1865
01:02:55,760 --> 01:02:56,320
Now you see

1866
01:02:57,760 --> 01:02:58,480
immediately a whole bunch

1867
01:02:58,480 --> 01:02:59,440
of subcategories

1868
01:02:59,440 --> 01:03:00,960
which aren't necessarily

1869
01:03:00,960 --> 01:03:02,160
maintained by him.

1870
01:03:02,160 --> 01:03:03,120
We go into general

1871
01:03:03,680 --> 01:03:04,640
you'll see that

1872
01:03:04,640 --> 01:03:05,600
because he's

1873
01:03:05,600 --> 01:03:06,960
he has an OPML file

1874
01:03:06,960 --> 01:03:07,920
and there's all kinds of

1875
01:03:07,920 --> 01:03:09,520
let's just call it metadata

1876
01:03:09,520 --> 01:03:11,200
rolling through this OPML file.

1877
01:03:12,480 --> 01:03:13,600
Stuff happens automatically

1878
01:03:13,600 --> 01:03:14,720
like the suggest a link

1879
01:03:14,720 --> 01:03:15,840
is going to go to him

1880
01:03:15,840 --> 01:03:16,480
and not to me.

1881
01:03:17,920 --> 01:03:18,960
I'm just going to finish

1882
01:03:18,960 --> 01:03:19,680
this one thought

1883
01:03:19,680 --> 01:03:20,400
because now I'm

1884
01:03:21,200 --> 01:03:22,160
when I started

1885
01:03:22,160 --> 01:03:23,040
to understand this

1886
01:03:23,040 --> 01:03:23,760
and the power

1887
01:03:24,560 --> 01:03:25,920
of having

1888
01:03:25,920 --> 01:03:27,040
this completely distributed

1889
01:03:27,120 --> 01:03:28,320
that anyone can maintain

1890
01:03:28,320 --> 01:03:28,960
a node and it's

1891
01:03:28,960 --> 01:03:30,160
and the amount of

1892
01:03:30,960 --> 01:03:31,920
nodes and feeds

1893
01:03:31,920 --> 01:03:32,640
that are being added

1894
01:03:32,640 --> 01:03:34,080
as added is just astronomical.

1895
01:03:34,080 --> 01:03:34,960
Sometimes it's

1896
01:03:34,960 --> 01:03:36,080
it's 20 in a day

1897
01:03:36,080 --> 01:03:36,800
or 30 in a day.

1898
01:03:36,800 --> 01:03:37,200
It's really

1899
01:03:37,200 --> 01:03:37,840
it's really growing

1900
01:03:37,840 --> 01:03:38,320
quite quickly

1901
01:03:38,320 --> 01:03:38,880
and it's just kind of

1902
01:03:38,880 --> 01:03:40,080
all flowing up to the

1903
01:03:40,080 --> 01:03:41,280
even to the what's new portion.

1904
01:03:42,560 --> 01:03:43,840
Yeah, it made sense for me

1905
01:03:43,840 --> 01:03:44,640
to start to figure out

1906
01:03:44,640 --> 01:03:45,280
what else we could do

1907
01:03:45,280 --> 01:03:46,480
with OPML

1908
01:03:46,480 --> 01:03:47,440
and I started doing

1909
01:03:48,160 --> 01:03:48,720
kind of a

1910
01:03:49,840 --> 01:03:50,960
a production console

1911
01:03:52,240 --> 01:03:52,960
and this is actually

1912
01:03:52,960 --> 01:03:54,000
how I how I prepped

1913
01:03:54,000 --> 01:03:54,880
for my podcast.

1914
01:03:55,520 --> 01:03:57,520
This is nothing more

1915
01:03:57,520 --> 01:03:58,720
than than a simple

1916
01:03:58,720 --> 01:03:59,200
outliner

1917
01:04:00,720 --> 01:04:01,520
and under

1918
01:04:01,520 --> 01:04:02,160
each node

1919
01:04:02,160 --> 01:04:02,720
you know

1920
01:04:02,720 --> 01:04:03,200
I can

1921
01:04:03,200 --> 01:04:04,160
I usually expand this

1922
01:04:04,160 --> 01:04:04,800
by using the

1923
01:04:04,800 --> 01:04:05,360
apple key

1924
01:04:06,640 --> 01:04:07,200
comma

1925
01:04:07,200 --> 01:04:08,240
because that's easier than

1926
01:04:08,240 --> 01:04:08,800
you know I need to

1927
01:04:08,800 --> 01:04:09,600
keep my hands on the

1928
01:04:09,600 --> 01:04:10,720
computer for starting

1929
01:04:10,720 --> 01:04:11,440
music and stuff.

1930
01:04:12,720 --> 01:04:13,440
So there's a link

1931
01:04:13,440 --> 01:04:14,160
if I click on that

1932
01:04:14,160 --> 01:04:15,200
it'll open up a browser

1933
01:04:15,760 --> 01:04:16,320
but there's other

1934
01:04:16,320 --> 01:04:17,120
different types of

1935
01:04:17,120 --> 01:04:17,840
nodes in here

1936
01:04:18,400 --> 01:04:19,040
and this is I think

1937
01:04:19,040 --> 01:04:19,840
what people are going

1938
01:04:19,840 --> 01:04:20,560
to be looking for.

1939
01:04:21,920 --> 01:04:24,000
So if I expand this

1940
01:04:24,000 --> 01:04:24,960
this Rick Lyons

1941
01:04:24,960 --> 01:04:26,000
Stephanie De Bruzzo

1942
01:04:26,640 --> 01:04:27,760
that's the album title

1943
01:04:28,960 --> 01:04:29,760
if I open that

1944
01:04:31,120 --> 01:04:32,240
that's the actual song

1945
01:04:34,000 --> 01:04:35,920
and if I double click on that

1946
01:04:35,920 --> 01:04:37,440
it's going to open it up here

1947
01:04:38,320 --> 01:04:38,960
hold on

1948
01:04:38,960 --> 01:04:39,920
it opened it here

1949
01:04:39,920 --> 01:04:41,280
it opens up this player

1950
01:04:41,280 --> 01:04:42,000
ready for me to go

1951
01:04:42,000 --> 01:04:42,560
all I have to do is

1952
01:04:42,560 --> 01:04:43,440
hit the space bar.

1953
01:04:54,640 --> 01:05:01,680
I don't have the lyrics

1954
01:05:01,680 --> 01:05:02,480
but you'll get

1955
01:05:02,480 --> 01:05:03,440
you'll get it pretty quickly.

1956
01:05:20,400 --> 01:05:21,200
So we could listen

1957
01:05:21,200 --> 01:05:22,000
that all day of course

1958
01:05:22,640 --> 01:05:23,360
but meanwhile

1959
01:05:24,080 --> 01:05:24,640
you might have seen

1960
01:05:24,640 --> 01:05:25,680
that I right clicked

1961
01:05:25,680 --> 01:05:27,280
on this song

1962
01:05:27,280 --> 01:05:28,080
and it brings up

1963
01:05:28,880 --> 01:05:30,480
what I think is the metadata

1964
01:05:31,280 --> 01:05:31,760
don't ask me

1965
01:05:31,760 --> 01:05:32,480
how it got in there

1966
01:05:32,480 --> 01:05:33,040
because I'm not quite

1967
01:05:33,040 --> 01:05:34,080
I haven't quite figured that out

1968
01:05:34,800 --> 01:05:36,800
but in my opml file

1969
01:05:36,800 --> 01:05:37,200
I have

1970
01:05:38,000 --> 01:05:38,960
the album artist

1971
01:05:38,960 --> 01:05:39,600
and then under

1972
01:05:40,480 --> 01:05:41,440
ads is where you get

1973
01:05:41,440 --> 01:05:43,120
basically a lot of the

1974
01:05:43,120 --> 01:05:44,720
ID3 information

1975
01:05:45,360 --> 01:05:46,320
and it takes me

1976
01:05:46,320 --> 01:05:47,760
zero effort

1977
01:05:47,760 --> 01:05:48,800
to actually create this

1978
01:05:48,800 --> 01:05:50,160
I drop the mp3 files

1979
01:05:50,160 --> 01:05:50,800
I want to use

1980
01:05:50,800 --> 01:05:51,920
into a folder

1981
01:05:51,920 --> 01:05:52,800
and this just kind of

1982
01:05:53,440 --> 01:05:54,480
opens up

1983
01:05:54,480 --> 01:05:56,080
I'm not sure what to do with this

1984
01:05:56,080 --> 01:05:56,960
I hope people who are

1985
01:05:56,960 --> 01:05:57,440
in this room

1986
01:05:57,440 --> 01:05:58,400
who are developing

1987
01:05:58,400 --> 01:05:59,360
and thinking about this

1988
01:05:59,360 --> 01:06:00,320
will look at it

1989
01:06:00,320 --> 01:06:01,040
and figure out

1990
01:06:01,040 --> 01:06:02,400
how we can use this

1991
01:06:02,400 --> 01:06:03,200
to me it feels like

1992
01:06:03,200 --> 01:06:03,760
I can literally

1993
01:06:03,760 --> 01:06:04,400
I should be able to

1994
01:06:05,200 --> 01:06:06,000
copy

1995
01:06:06,000 --> 01:06:06,880
and paste a link

1996
01:06:06,880 --> 01:06:07,840
into an outline

1997
01:06:07,840 --> 01:06:08,480
and you know

1998
01:06:08,480 --> 01:06:09,040
that should be able

1999
01:06:09,040 --> 01:06:10,000
to bring in

2000
01:06:10,000 --> 01:06:11,360
the the source files

2001
01:06:11,360 --> 01:06:11,920
from

2002
01:06:11,920 --> 01:06:12,800
you know Michael Butler's

2003
01:06:12,800 --> 01:06:13,120
shows

2004
01:06:13,120 --> 01:06:14,080
so I can actually

2005
01:06:14,080 --> 01:06:14,960
just get the mp3

2006
01:06:14,960 --> 01:06:15,440
of the song

2007
01:06:15,440 --> 01:06:16,560
that he was playing

2008
01:06:16,560 --> 01:06:17,280
or it could be

2009
01:06:17,280 --> 01:06:17,920
a browser link

2010
01:06:17,920 --> 01:06:18,640
for that matter

2011
01:06:18,640 --> 01:06:19,440
so I just want to

2012
01:06:19,440 --> 01:06:19,760
bring that up

2013
01:06:19,760 --> 01:06:20,480
so people can start

2014
01:06:20,480 --> 01:06:21,280
thinking about that

2015
01:06:22,160 --> 01:06:22,400
okay

2016
01:06:22,400 --> 01:06:23,040
can we get a mic

2017
01:06:23,040 --> 01:06:23,360
over there

2018
01:06:23,360 --> 01:06:23,760
real quick

2019
01:06:24,480 --> 01:06:25,040
we have about

2020
01:06:26,000 --> 01:06:26,800
eight minutes left

2021
01:06:31,520 --> 01:06:31,920
sorry

2022
01:06:32,880 --> 01:06:33,280
demo

2023
01:06:36,720 --> 01:06:37,360
okay

2024
01:06:37,360 --> 01:06:38,080
well let's just

2025
01:06:38,080 --> 01:06:38,880
take that one

2026
01:06:38,880 --> 01:06:39,360
comment then

2027
01:06:40,480 --> 01:06:41,040
hi Adam

2028
01:06:41,040 --> 01:06:42,000
I'm David Sifri

2029
01:06:42,000 --> 01:06:43,040
from Technorati

2030
01:06:43,040 --> 01:06:43,520
hey David

2031
01:06:44,320 --> 01:06:45,280
and I just wanted to

2032
01:06:45,920 --> 01:06:46,160
you know

2033
01:06:46,160 --> 01:06:46,640
to the point

2034
01:06:46,640 --> 01:06:47,200
of people saying

2035
01:06:47,200 --> 01:06:47,600
oh well

2036
01:06:47,600 --> 01:06:48,320
how do you do

2037
01:06:48,320 --> 01:06:48,560
that

2038
01:06:48,560 --> 01:06:49,520
those kinds of searches

2039
01:06:49,520 --> 01:06:50,320
how do you find

2040
01:06:50,880 --> 01:06:51,200
you know

2041
01:06:51,200 --> 01:06:52,000
this incredible

2042
01:06:52,000 --> 01:06:52,880
wealth of information

2043
01:06:52,880 --> 01:06:53,520
that's out there

2044
01:06:54,240 --> 01:06:55,520
so what we started to do

2045
01:06:56,320 --> 01:06:57,280
is just

2046
01:06:57,280 --> 01:06:57,840
you know

2047
01:06:57,840 --> 01:06:58,400
looking at

2048
01:06:58,400 --> 01:06:58,800
where

2049
01:06:58,800 --> 01:06:59,600
what are the

2050
01:06:59,600 --> 01:07:00,400
podcasts

2051
01:07:00,400 --> 01:07:00,880
that people

2052
01:07:00,880 --> 01:07:01,600
are linking to

2053
01:07:02,640 --> 01:07:02,960
and actually

2054
01:07:02,960 --> 01:07:03,920
that's up there now

2055
01:07:03,920 --> 01:07:04,240
on

2056
01:07:04,240 --> 01:07:04,640
on

2057
01:07:04,640 --> 01:07:04,880
on

2058
01:07:04,880 --> 01:07:05,760
now that's

2059
01:07:05,760 --> 01:07:06,240
commercial

2060
01:07:06,240 --> 01:07:06,800
I just

2061
01:07:06,800 --> 01:07:07,760
I just posted it

2062
01:07:07,760 --> 01:07:08,400
on my blog

2063
01:07:08,400 --> 01:07:09,120
go to my blog

2064
01:07:09,120 --> 01:07:09,600
and see it

2065
01:07:12,320 --> 01:07:13,280
oh I'm sorry

2066
01:07:13,280 --> 01:07:13,600
like

2067
01:07:13,600 --> 01:07:14,480
I just posted

2068
01:07:14,480 --> 01:07:15,200
something that

2069
01:07:15,200 --> 01:07:16,000
that talks about

2070
01:07:16,560 --> 01:07:17,600
how people can get

2071
01:07:19,120 --> 01:07:20,080
I'm sorry Dave

2072
01:07:20,160 --> 01:07:21,280
I didn't realize that

2073
01:07:21,280 --> 01:07:21,600
you know

2074
01:07:21,600 --> 01:07:22,560
the stuff on

2075
01:07:22,560 --> 01:07:23,120
you know

2076
01:07:23,120 --> 01:07:24,240
it's just another directory

2077
01:07:25,520 --> 01:07:26,320
all right hey

2078
01:07:26,320 --> 01:07:27,280
no problem

2079
01:07:27,280 --> 01:07:28,000
sorry for the

2080
01:07:28,000 --> 01:07:28,640
it's what

2081
01:07:28,640 --> 01:07:29,360
really wasn't meant

2082
01:07:29,360 --> 01:07:30,480
there's a commercial message

2083
01:07:30,480 --> 01:07:31,040
no problem

2084
01:07:31,040 --> 01:07:31,760
I was just saying

2085
01:07:31,760 --> 01:07:32,160
it's good

2086
01:07:32,160 --> 01:07:32,640
it's good that we're

2087
01:07:32,640 --> 01:07:33,280
talking about

2088
01:07:33,280 --> 01:07:33,840
it's good well

2089
01:07:33,840 --> 01:07:34,320
it's good that we're

2090
01:07:34,320 --> 01:07:34,960
learning the ground

2091
01:07:34,960 --> 01:07:35,920
rules and reiterating them

2092
01:07:35,920 --> 01:07:36,160
so

2093
01:07:36,960 --> 01:07:37,840
people want to

2094
01:07:37,840 --> 01:07:38,160
see it

2095
01:07:40,320 --> 01:07:40,960
yeah sure

2096
01:07:40,960 --> 01:07:41,280
Hank

2097
01:07:41,280 --> 01:07:41,840
Hank Berry

2098
01:07:41,840 --> 01:07:42,160
you know

2099
01:07:42,160 --> 01:07:43,040
introduce yourself

2100
01:07:43,040 --> 01:07:44,400
Dave Sifri's my hero so

2101
01:07:45,120 --> 01:07:46,320
you can say whatever you want to say

2102
01:07:46,320 --> 01:07:47,520
um

2103
01:07:47,520 --> 01:07:49,760
um

2104
01:07:49,760 --> 01:07:50,640
I think that a lot of

2105
01:07:50,640 --> 01:07:51,200
the energies

2106
01:07:51,200 --> 01:07:51,760
I'm Hank Berry

2107
01:07:51,760 --> 01:07:52,320
this a lot of

2108
01:07:52,320 --> 01:07:53,440
energy is being expended

2109
01:07:53,440 --> 01:07:54,000
on something that

2110
01:07:54,000 --> 01:07:54,720
Apple can shut off

2111
01:07:54,720 --> 01:07:55,680
relatively quickly

2112
01:07:56,320 --> 01:07:56,720
and

2113
01:07:57,440 --> 01:07:58,080
I know

2114
01:07:58,080 --> 01:07:59,120
from personal experience

2115
01:07:59,120 --> 01:07:59,360
that

2116
01:08:00,480 --> 01:08:01,360
the r-a-a doesn't

2117
01:08:01,360 --> 01:08:02,400
like mp3 files

2118
01:08:03,120 --> 01:08:04,000
and I think that

2119
01:08:04,000 --> 01:08:04,960
is the

2120
01:08:04,960 --> 01:08:06,240
the technology proliferates

2121
01:08:06,240 --> 01:08:06,640
is going to be

2122
01:08:06,640 --> 01:08:07,760
this question of

2123
01:08:07,760 --> 01:08:08,320
are people going to

2124
01:08:08,320 --> 01:08:09,920
support open mp3 files

2125
01:08:09,920 --> 01:08:10,480
and so I think

2126
01:08:10,480 --> 01:08:11,120
somebody like

2127
01:08:11,120 --> 01:08:11,680
feedburner

2128
01:08:11,680 --> 01:08:12,400
should think about

2129
01:08:12,400 --> 01:08:13,120
writing a client

2130
01:08:13,120 --> 01:08:13,760
that'll go down

2131
01:08:13,760 --> 01:08:14,960
on an mp3 player

2132
01:08:15,920 --> 01:08:16,640
so that you can

2133
01:08:16,640 --> 01:08:17,520
be assured that

2134
01:08:17,520 --> 01:08:18,080
you're going to have

2135
01:08:18,880 --> 01:08:19,760
some client software

2136
01:08:19,760 --> 01:08:20,160
down there

2137
01:08:20,160 --> 01:08:20,800
close to the

2138
01:08:21,360 --> 01:08:23,040
to the portable device

2139
01:08:23,040 --> 01:08:24,320
that will remain

2140
01:08:24,320 --> 01:08:24,800
open

2141
01:08:24,800 --> 01:08:25,680
because I don't think

2142
01:08:25,680 --> 01:08:27,280
you can rely on that

2143
01:08:27,280 --> 01:08:28,320
connection existing

2144
01:08:28,320 --> 01:08:29,680
for a long period of time

2145
01:08:29,680 --> 01:08:30,400
Sony has announced

2146
01:08:30,400 --> 01:08:30,800
of course that

2147
01:08:30,800 --> 01:08:31,360
they're going to

2148
01:08:31,360 --> 01:08:32,080
continue to support

2149
01:08:32,080 --> 01:08:32,720
they're now going to

2150
01:08:32,720 --> 01:08:34,240
support open mp3s

2151
01:08:34,240 --> 01:08:35,040
on their devices

2152
01:08:35,040 --> 01:08:35,520
and people need

2153
01:08:35,520 --> 01:08:36,240
to form alliances

2154
01:08:36,240 --> 01:08:36,720
with people

2155
01:08:36,720 --> 01:08:37,440
other than Apple

2156
01:08:37,440 --> 01:08:37,840
in order to make

2157
01:08:37,840 --> 01:08:38,320
sure this thing

2158
01:08:38,320 --> 01:08:38,800
keeps going

2159
01:08:44,000 --> 01:08:44,720
well I mean

2160
01:08:44,720 --> 01:08:45,200
yeah just keep

2161
01:08:45,200 --> 01:08:45,680
can you just keep

2162
01:08:45,680 --> 01:08:46,320
the mic with Hank

2163
01:08:46,640 --> 01:08:47,520
you said two things

2164
01:08:47,520 --> 01:08:48,400
that freak me out

2165
01:08:48,400 --> 01:08:49,120
one was Apple

2166
01:08:49,120 --> 01:08:49,840
could shut it down

2167
01:08:50,560 --> 01:08:51,200
Apple could decide

2168
01:08:51,200 --> 01:08:51,520
that they're not

2169
01:08:51,520 --> 01:08:52,080
going to support

2170
01:08:52,080 --> 01:08:53,440
mp3 files anymore

2171
01:08:53,440 --> 01:08:54,400
they could very easily

2172
01:08:54,400 --> 01:08:54,720
do that

2173
01:08:54,720 --> 01:08:55,360
as the latest

2174
01:08:55,360 --> 01:08:56,160
rev of the software

2175
01:08:56,160 --> 01:08:56,400
but that doesn't

2176
01:08:56,400 --> 01:08:56,960
shut down

2177
01:08:56,960 --> 01:08:58,560
I mean mp3 players

2178
01:08:58,560 --> 01:08:58,960
are rampant

2179
01:08:58,960 --> 01:08:59,440
it's not just the

2180
01:08:59,440 --> 01:09:00,000
iPod

2181
01:09:00,000 --> 01:09:00,640
no I understand

2182
01:09:00,640 --> 01:09:01,840
but my point is that

2183
01:09:01,840 --> 01:09:02,320
that if you look

2184
01:09:02,320 --> 01:09:02,800
around the room

2185
01:09:02,800 --> 01:09:03,600
here this is

2186
01:09:03,600 --> 01:09:04,640
we have a lot of

2187
01:09:04,640 --> 01:09:05,360
a lot of

2188
01:09:05,360 --> 01:09:06,720
Apple materials here

2189
01:09:06,720 --> 01:09:07,360
the fact that

2190
01:09:07,360 --> 01:09:08,400
people are using

2191
01:09:09,120 --> 01:09:09,680
iPods

2192
01:09:09,680 --> 01:09:10,160
I'd say for

2193
01:09:10,160 --> 01:09:10,800
the majority

2194
01:09:10,800 --> 01:09:11,520
of podcast

2195
01:09:11,520 --> 01:09:12,800
listening in the world

2196
01:09:12,800 --> 01:09:14,240
on a portable basis

2197
01:09:14,240 --> 01:09:14,880
is that I mean

2198
01:09:14,880 --> 01:09:15,920
maybe I'm mistaken

2199
01:09:16,000 --> 01:09:16,560
to disagree

2200
01:09:16,560 --> 01:09:17,440
I don't think we have

2201
01:09:17,440 --> 01:09:18,240
many of those numbers

2202
01:09:18,240 --> 01:09:19,440
really we don't know

2203
01:09:19,440 --> 01:09:21,120
okay then that's great

2204
01:09:21,120 --> 01:09:21,840
but I do think

2205
01:09:21,840 --> 01:09:22,880
that there is this issue

2206
01:09:22,880 --> 01:09:23,840
out there about mp3

2207
01:09:23,840 --> 01:09:24,320
and that people

2208
01:09:24,320 --> 01:09:25,200
shouldn't rely on that

2209
01:09:25,200 --> 01:09:26,080
being around forever

2210
01:09:30,080 --> 01:09:30,640
we don't have enough

2211
01:09:30,640 --> 01:09:31,360
time to go into this

2212
01:09:31,360 --> 01:09:32,960
but I strongly disagree

2213
01:09:32,960 --> 01:09:33,760
with that mp3s

2214
01:09:33,760 --> 01:09:34,400
are going away

2215
01:09:34,400 --> 01:09:35,120
I don't see that

2216
01:09:36,000 --> 01:09:37,120
mp3 files maybe

2217
01:09:37,600 --> 01:09:38,080
no I just

2218
01:09:42,080 --> 01:09:42,480
hold on just

2219
01:09:43,760 --> 01:09:44,320
just give them the mic

2220
01:09:44,320 --> 01:09:44,640
because he's

2221
01:09:44,640 --> 01:09:45,200
supported by the

2222
01:09:45,200 --> 01:09:45,920
Apple platform

2223
01:09:45,920 --> 01:09:46,720
being supported by the

2224
01:09:46,720 --> 01:09:47,520
Windows platform

2225
01:09:47,520 --> 01:09:48,160
those are the two things

2226
01:09:48,160 --> 01:09:48,480
I'm saying

2227
01:09:49,840 --> 01:09:50,480
where do you want to go

2228
01:09:50,480 --> 01:09:50,960
to Larry

2229
01:09:52,960 --> 01:09:53,200
so

2230
01:09:54,320 --> 01:09:54,880
so I

2231
01:09:54,880 --> 01:09:55,600
I want to talk about

2232
01:09:55,600 --> 01:09:56,320
a different kind of

2233
01:09:56,320 --> 01:09:56,800
development

2234
01:09:56,800 --> 01:09:57,520
that has to happen

2235
01:09:57,520 --> 01:09:58,080
in this space

2236
01:09:59,920 --> 01:10:00,400
if you look at the

2237
01:10:00,400 --> 01:10:01,200
history of the Internet

2238
01:10:01,200 --> 01:10:02,080
looks something like this

2239
01:10:02,640 --> 01:10:03,440
tech

2240
01:10:03,440 --> 01:10:04,880
people have great ideas

2241
01:10:04,880 --> 01:10:05,280
about how to

2242
01:10:05,280 --> 01:10:06,240
make stuff work

2243
01:10:06,240 --> 01:10:07,280
and lawyers come in

2244
01:10:07,280 --> 01:10:08,160
with hatchets

2245
01:10:08,160 --> 01:10:09,040
and cut it apart

2246
01:10:10,080 --> 01:10:10,720
that's basically

2247
01:10:10,720 --> 01:10:11,440
the life that

2248
01:10:11,440 --> 01:10:12,240
Hank lived

2249
01:10:12,240 --> 01:10:13,520
it's the life that

2250
01:10:13,520 --> 01:10:14,320
I think we should

2251
01:10:14,320 --> 01:10:15,920
design this system

2252
01:10:15,920 --> 01:10:16,800
to avoid

2253
01:10:16,800 --> 01:10:17,680
so I think

2254
01:10:17,680 --> 01:10:18,400
one important

2255
01:10:21,120 --> 01:10:22,640
one important development

2256
01:10:22,640 --> 01:10:23,920
which I'd be eager to help

2257
01:10:24,800 --> 01:10:25,360
begin

2258
01:10:25,360 --> 01:10:26,240
would be thoughts

2259
01:10:26,240 --> 01:10:27,040
about how we can

2260
01:10:27,040 --> 01:10:28,320
begin to wrap this

2261
01:10:29,200 --> 01:10:31,040
so that it's impenetrable

2262
01:10:31,040 --> 01:10:33,200
by the 20th century

2263
01:10:33,200 --> 01:10:34,160
legal mind

2264
01:10:34,160 --> 01:10:35,520
so it can flow

2265
01:10:36,080 --> 01:10:36,720
and develop

2266
01:10:36,720 --> 01:10:37,520
in all sorts of ways

2267
01:10:37,520 --> 01:10:37,920
none of us

2268
01:10:37,920 --> 01:10:38,560
can predict

2269
01:10:38,560 --> 01:10:39,440
without somebody

2270
01:10:39,440 --> 01:10:40,000
saying that

2271
01:10:40,000 --> 01:10:41,280
the RIAA lawyers

2272
01:10:41,280 --> 01:10:41,920
have deemed this

2273
01:10:41,920 --> 01:10:42,640
to be illegal

2274
01:10:42,640 --> 01:10:43,280
and therefore

2275
01:10:43,280 --> 01:10:44,480
Apple has to shut it down

2276
01:10:44,480 --> 01:10:45,200
or Microsoft

2277
01:10:45,200 --> 01:10:46,400
has to shut it down

2278
01:10:46,400 --> 01:10:48,000
so one part of the development

2279
01:10:48,000 --> 01:10:49,600
is architecting

2280
01:10:49,600 --> 01:10:50,400
the freedoms

2281
01:10:50,400 --> 01:10:51,360
into this system

2282
01:10:51,360 --> 01:10:52,160
to guarantee

2283
01:10:52,160 --> 01:10:52,880
that it can be used

2284
01:10:52,880 --> 01:10:54,160
in all sorts of different ways

2285
01:10:54,720 --> 01:10:56,560
without requiring

2286
01:10:56,560 --> 01:10:57,520
people that I train

2287
01:10:57,520 --> 01:10:58,080
for a living

2288
01:10:58,080 --> 01:10:59,120
to stand between you

2289
01:10:59,120 --> 01:10:59,680
and the people

2290
01:10:59,680 --> 01:11:00,800
you want to talk to

2291
01:11:00,800 --> 01:11:01,280
oh we

2292
01:11:01,280 --> 01:11:01,920
certainly welcome

2293
01:11:01,920 --> 01:11:02,640
your help on that

2294
01:11:05,360 --> 01:11:05,680
hold on

2295
01:11:05,680 --> 01:11:07,360
how many blocks do you have

2296
01:11:07,360 --> 01:11:08,560
Larry listening to me

2297
01:11:08,560 --> 01:11:10,000
it's an hour and a half

2298
01:11:10,000 --> 01:11:11,120
session on the law

2299
01:11:11,760 --> 01:11:12,720
and blogging

2300
01:11:12,720 --> 01:11:13,840
and so we have

2301
01:11:13,840 --> 01:11:14,960
a whole hour and a half

2302
01:11:14,960 --> 01:11:16,240
to work on this

2303
01:11:16,240 --> 01:11:16,880
and I think there's

2304
01:11:16,880 --> 01:11:18,560
just huge power between

2305
01:11:18,560 --> 01:11:19,120
like

2306
01:11:19,120 --> 01:11:19,760
if Adam

2307
01:11:19,760 --> 01:11:21,120
and Larry could work together

2308
01:11:21,120 --> 01:11:22,560
and that being symbolic

2309
01:11:22,560 --> 01:11:23,360
users and lawyers

2310
01:11:23,360 --> 01:11:24,160
of communities

2311
01:11:24,160 --> 01:11:25,200
well there's like

2312
01:11:25,200 --> 01:11:25,920
lawyers are like

2313
01:11:25,920 --> 01:11:26,640
I learned this at

2314
01:11:26,640 --> 01:11:27,440
Harvard Law School

2315
01:11:27,440 --> 01:11:28,320
is there's like

2316
01:11:28,320 --> 01:11:29,200
good cholesterol

2317
01:11:29,200 --> 01:11:30,080
bad cholesterol

2318
01:11:30,080 --> 01:11:31,040
there's good lawyers

2319
01:11:31,040 --> 01:11:31,920
and bad lawyers

2320
01:11:31,920 --> 01:11:32,800
okay

2321
01:11:32,800 --> 01:11:34,000
Larry is

2322
01:11:34,000 --> 01:11:35,120
these are the good lawyers

2323
01:11:35,120 --> 01:11:35,600
okay

2324
01:11:35,600 --> 01:11:36,240
all right

2325
01:11:36,240 --> 01:11:36,560
yeah

2326
01:11:36,560 --> 01:11:37,680
these are our buddies so

2327
01:11:38,240 --> 01:11:39,040
okay um

2328
01:11:39,040 --> 01:11:39,760
we have exactly

2329
01:11:40,400 --> 01:11:41,520
developers and users

2330
01:11:41,600 --> 01:11:42,240
and lawyers

2331
01:11:42,240 --> 01:11:43,360
parting together

2332
01:11:43,360 --> 01:11:43,520
yeah

2333
01:11:44,720 --> 01:11:45,520
which is dull

2334
01:11:50,080 --> 01:11:50,800
sorry

2335
01:11:50,800 --> 01:11:51,840
I'm an acronym guy

2336
01:11:53,520 --> 01:11:54,320
okay so I literally

2337
01:11:54,320 --> 01:11:55,040
have

2338
01:11:55,040 --> 01:11:55,760
three minutes

2339
01:11:55,760 --> 01:11:55,920
and

2340
01:11:58,640 --> 01:11:59,520
people would like to see

2341
01:12:00,080 --> 01:12:00,560
a demo

2342
01:12:01,200 --> 01:12:01,920
there's really not much

2343
01:12:01,920 --> 01:12:02,400
to demo

2344
01:12:02,400 --> 01:12:03,440
other than I just

2345
01:12:03,440 --> 01:12:05,040
I brought my podcasting bag

2346
01:12:06,960 --> 01:12:07,680
and if I

2347
01:12:07,680 --> 01:12:08,480
if I pour the

2348
01:12:08,480 --> 01:12:08,880
well

2349
01:12:08,880 --> 01:12:09,440
shit there's

2350
01:12:09,440 --> 01:12:10,400
part something from my hair

2351
01:12:12,320 --> 01:12:14,720
it's just for bad hair day

2352
01:12:15,200 --> 01:12:15,680
that's uh

2353
01:12:17,120 --> 01:12:17,680
but literally

2354
01:12:18,320 --> 01:12:19,040
you know I just

2355
01:12:19,040 --> 01:12:20,000
brought out the pieces

2356
01:12:20,000 --> 01:12:20,800
that I use

2357
01:12:20,800 --> 01:12:21,280
it's kind of like

2358
01:12:21,280 --> 01:12:21,840
show and tell

2359
01:12:21,840 --> 01:12:22,720
in third grade

2360
01:12:24,560 --> 01:12:26,080
what a big part of what

2361
01:12:26,080 --> 01:12:26,880
makes the source code

2362
01:12:26,880 --> 01:12:27,440
different is

2363
01:12:27,440 --> 01:12:28,320
I can walk around

2364
01:12:28,320 --> 01:12:29,280
on mobile

2365
01:12:29,280 --> 01:12:30,080
and that's actually

2366
01:12:30,080 --> 01:12:30,800
the almost

2367
01:12:30,800 --> 01:12:31,760
non-podcast

2368
01:12:31,760 --> 01:12:32,880
or non-blogger

2369
01:12:32,880 --> 01:12:33,840
type piece of equipment

2370
01:12:33,840 --> 01:12:34,560
I have

2371
01:12:34,560 --> 01:12:35,200
which is this

2372
01:12:35,200 --> 01:12:35,680
this is

2373
01:12:35,680 --> 01:12:36,320
just like this one

2374
01:12:36,320 --> 01:12:36,800
it's a

2375
01:12:36,800 --> 01:12:37,520
a lav

2376
01:12:37,520 --> 01:12:38,320
mic

2377
01:12:38,320 --> 01:12:39,520
with a transmitter

2378
01:12:39,520 --> 01:12:40,320
and this is

2379
01:12:40,320 --> 01:12:41,200
the receiver

2380
01:12:41,440 --> 01:12:42,640
very expensive

2381
01:12:42,640 --> 01:12:43,520
if you want to get these

2382
01:12:43,520 --> 01:12:44,640
that really work very well

2383
01:12:45,920 --> 01:12:46,560
this costs

2384
01:12:46,560 --> 01:12:47,760
$2,000 easily

2385
01:12:47,760 --> 01:12:48,560
and yeah it's

2386
01:12:48,560 --> 01:12:49,120
this is

2387
01:12:49,120 --> 01:12:50,480
we did a reality tv show

2388
01:12:50,480 --> 01:12:51,360
and I basically

2389
01:12:51,360 --> 01:12:51,840
kept this

2390
01:12:56,240 --> 01:12:56,480
so

2391
01:12:57,200 --> 01:12:58,560
just to show you all the bits

2392
01:12:58,560 --> 01:12:59,280
and you know

2393
01:12:59,280 --> 01:13:00,000
and we can

2394
01:13:00,000 --> 01:13:00,640
talk about this

2395
01:13:00,640 --> 01:13:01,040
I'm here

2396
01:13:01,040 --> 01:13:01,840
and through Monday

2397
01:13:01,840 --> 01:13:02,640
and everyone can

2398
01:13:02,640 --> 01:13:03,200
can come up

2399
01:13:03,200 --> 01:13:03,760
and I'll show you

2400
01:13:03,760 --> 01:13:04,640
what I'm doing

2401
01:13:04,640 --> 01:13:05,040
literally

2402
01:13:05,040 --> 01:13:05,600
so this is

2403
01:13:05,600 --> 01:13:06,880
this is your microphone jack

2404
01:13:07,840 --> 01:13:08,560
I put that

2405
01:13:08,560 --> 01:13:09,520
into the

2406
01:13:09,520 --> 01:13:10,480
the microphone jack

2407
01:13:10,480 --> 01:13:11,360
here the line in

2408
01:13:12,640 --> 01:13:13,840
and after

2409
01:13:13,840 --> 01:13:14,640
many many

2410
01:13:14,640 --> 01:13:15,680
many hours of

2411
01:13:16,560 --> 01:13:18,000
extreme sadness

2412
01:13:18,800 --> 01:13:19,360
and

2413
01:13:19,360 --> 01:13:20,160
crying

2414
01:13:20,160 --> 01:13:20,960
and

2415
01:13:20,960 --> 01:13:22,160
making up excuses

2416
01:13:22,160 --> 01:13:22,400
and

2417
01:13:23,600 --> 01:13:24,960
of lost shows

2418
01:13:24,960 --> 01:13:25,440
that I

2419
01:13:25,440 --> 01:13:27,360
tried to record directly

2420
01:13:27,360 --> 01:13:28,240
to my hard disk

2421
01:13:28,240 --> 01:13:28,800
and I've used

2422
01:13:29,360 --> 01:13:30,480
every single combination

2423
01:13:30,480 --> 01:13:31,200
of programs

2424
01:13:31,200 --> 01:13:32,000
I can come up with

2425
01:13:34,000 --> 01:13:35,200
it's just not safe

2426
01:13:37,120 --> 01:13:37,760
I think that

2427
01:13:37,760 --> 01:13:38,480
a lot of people here

2428
01:13:38,480 --> 01:13:39,120
have witnessed

2429
01:13:39,120 --> 01:13:40,480
an hour's worth of recording

2430
01:13:40,480 --> 01:13:42,000
and it's gone

2431
01:13:42,000 --> 01:13:43,120
your computer crashes

2432
01:13:44,320 --> 01:13:44,880
so

2433
01:13:44,880 --> 01:13:46,320
I'm going to make a recommendation

2434
01:13:46,320 --> 01:13:47,280
which is not

2435
01:13:47,280 --> 01:13:47,680
necessary

2436
01:13:47,680 --> 01:13:48,640
I wish it were different

2437
01:13:48,640 --> 01:13:49,680
but I haven't yet to see

2438
01:13:50,640 --> 01:13:51,200
a pc

2439
01:13:51,760 --> 01:13:53,040
that can reliably

2440
01:13:53,040 --> 01:13:54,320
record audio

2441
01:13:54,320 --> 01:13:55,360
and you know

2442
01:13:55,360 --> 01:13:56,400
unless it's a

2443
01:13:56,400 --> 01:13:57,280
a high-end system

2444
01:13:57,280 --> 01:13:58,000
where they probably

2445
01:13:58,000 --> 01:13:59,120
give you external

2446
01:13:59,120 --> 01:13:59,680
hardware

2447
01:13:59,680 --> 01:14:00,800
external drives

2448
01:14:00,800 --> 01:14:02,400
and that's exactly what I did

2449
01:14:02,400 --> 01:14:03,040
is I went out

2450
01:14:03,040 --> 01:14:04,000
and bought the ugliest

2451
01:14:04,000 --> 01:14:04,640
the ugliest

2452
01:14:05,600 --> 01:14:06,720
little mp3 player

2453
01:14:06,720 --> 01:14:07,440
it's called a yep

2454
01:14:07,440 --> 01:14:08,800
I think Samsung makes it

2455
01:14:09,280 --> 01:14:10,320
orange and brush metal

2456
01:14:10,320 --> 01:14:11,520
is just totally doing it for me

2457
01:14:12,720 --> 01:14:14,560
it can take 256 megs

2458
01:14:14,560 --> 01:14:15,840
of data

2459
01:14:15,840 --> 01:14:16,560
and you can also

2460
01:14:16,560 --> 01:14:17,280
record onto it

2461
01:14:17,280 --> 01:14:17,920
so this has

2462
01:14:17,920 --> 01:14:18,720
none of the playlist

2463
01:14:18,720 --> 01:14:19,120
features

2464
01:14:19,120 --> 01:14:20,000
or any of that stuff

2465
01:14:20,000 --> 01:14:20,720
and I guess

2466
01:14:20,720 --> 01:14:21,920
that some chipset came out

2467
01:14:21,920 --> 01:14:22,320
that you know

2468
01:14:22,320 --> 01:14:23,840
these seem to be everywhere

2469
01:14:23,840 --> 01:14:24,880
and literally

2470
01:14:24,880 --> 01:14:26,000
I just plug this

2471
01:14:26,000 --> 01:14:27,040
into the headphone jack

2472
01:14:27,680 --> 01:14:28,720
of my

2473
01:14:28,720 --> 01:14:29,440
of my computer

2474
01:14:30,160 --> 01:14:30,960
and

2475
01:14:30,960 --> 01:14:31,600
anything

2476
01:14:31,600 --> 01:14:32,160
any sound

2477
01:14:32,160 --> 01:14:32,800
I can create

2478
01:14:32,800 --> 01:14:33,520
on my computer

2479
01:14:34,160 --> 01:14:35,680
will basically be recorded

2480
01:14:35,680 --> 01:14:36,640
to this thing

2481
01:14:36,640 --> 01:14:37,280
and then

2482
01:14:37,280 --> 01:14:37,840
when I'm done

2483
01:14:37,840 --> 01:14:39,360
I can plug this into the usb

2484
01:14:39,360 --> 01:14:40,640
and there's the mp3 file

2485
01:14:40,640 --> 01:14:41,760
and I go through the

2486
01:14:41,760 --> 01:14:43,600
also a completely laborious process

2487
01:14:43,600 --> 01:14:44,720
which would take me 20 minutes

2488
01:14:44,720 --> 01:14:46,000
here to show you of

2489
01:14:46,000 --> 01:14:46,880
uploading it

2490
01:14:46,880 --> 01:14:48,640
oh I forgot to do the id3 tags

2491
01:14:48,640 --> 01:14:49,680
and there's all this stuff

2492
01:14:49,680 --> 01:14:51,840
that we have no tools

2493
01:14:51,840 --> 01:14:53,360
for creating podcasts

2494
01:14:53,360 --> 01:14:54,240
now the big difference

2495
01:14:54,960 --> 01:14:55,520
with

2496
01:14:55,520 --> 01:14:56,000
what I do

2497
01:14:56,000 --> 01:14:56,720
and what most people

2498
01:14:56,720 --> 01:14:57,920
that I'm hearing doing

2499
01:14:57,920 --> 01:14:58,320
is

2500
01:14:58,320 --> 01:14:59,440
I don't edit my show

2501
01:15:00,080 --> 01:15:00,560
I don't

2502
01:15:01,200 --> 01:15:02,480
put the stuff in later

2503
01:15:02,480 --> 01:15:03,920
I do it all live on the fly

2504
01:15:03,920 --> 01:15:04,880
which is kind of like

2505
01:15:04,880 --> 01:15:06,000
playing Nintendo

2506
01:15:06,000 --> 01:15:07,360
it's hand-eye coordination

2507
01:15:08,400 --> 01:15:09,200
and

2508
01:15:09,200 --> 01:15:09,600
it's true

2509
01:15:10,640 --> 01:15:11,280
so we can

2510
01:15:11,280 --> 01:15:12,000
you know go back

2511
01:15:12,000 --> 01:15:12,960
so basically

2512
01:15:12,960 --> 01:15:14,240
I just open up my microphone

2513
01:15:14,240 --> 01:15:15,600
and just switch it on

2514
01:15:15,600 --> 01:15:15,840
and

2515
01:15:16,480 --> 01:15:17,600
and while I'm talking

2516
01:15:17,600 --> 01:15:18,480
you see what I'm doing now

2517
01:15:18,480 --> 01:15:19,120
it's kind of tougher

2518
01:15:19,120 --> 01:15:20,320
to do it looking at two screens

2519
01:15:20,320 --> 01:15:20,800
and I

2520
01:15:20,800 --> 01:15:22,160
hit the space bar

2521
01:15:22,160 --> 01:15:22,720
and I can

2522
01:15:22,720 --> 01:15:23,680
control the volume

2523
01:15:23,680 --> 01:15:24,960
you see I'm controlling the volume

2524
01:15:24,960 --> 01:15:25,360
there

2525
01:15:25,360 --> 01:15:26,880
by holding down the apple key

2526
01:15:26,880 --> 01:15:28,480
and up and down arrows

2527
01:15:28,480 --> 01:15:29,680
and that's basically my

2528
01:15:29,680 --> 01:15:30,240
fader

2529
01:15:30,240 --> 01:15:31,440
if you're working radio

2530
01:15:31,440 --> 01:15:32,720
you know there's a slider there

2531
01:15:32,720 --> 01:15:33,760
you can pull up and down

2532
01:15:35,200 --> 01:15:36,400
and then if I want to

2533
01:15:36,400 --> 01:15:37,280
go to

2534
01:15:37,280 --> 01:15:37,920
the next thing

2535
01:15:38,640 --> 01:15:39,280
which would

2536
01:15:39,280 --> 01:15:40,160
be this

2537
01:15:40,160 --> 01:15:41,040
you know I can have these

2538
01:15:41,040 --> 01:15:41,440
queued up

2539
01:15:41,440 --> 01:15:42,080
I can have them

2540
01:15:42,080 --> 01:15:42,400
I can

2541
01:15:43,040 --> 01:15:43,680
in radio

2542
01:15:44,160 --> 01:15:45,040
radio stations have

2543
01:15:45,040 --> 01:15:45,520
what we call

2544
01:15:45,520 --> 01:15:46,000
cart machine

2545
01:15:46,000 --> 01:15:46,800
we used to have what we call

2546
01:15:46,800 --> 01:15:47,520
cart machines

2547
01:15:47,520 --> 01:15:48,080
which are

2548
01:15:48,080 --> 01:15:48,880
basically

2549
01:15:48,880 --> 01:15:49,920
jacked up eight tracks

2550
01:15:49,920 --> 01:15:50,960
with a continuous loop

2551
01:15:50,960 --> 01:15:51,680
and you put a song

2552
01:15:51,680 --> 01:15:52,880
on it or a commercial

2553
01:15:52,880 --> 01:15:53,840
and then when it's over

2554
01:15:53,840 --> 01:15:54,400
it's queued up

2555
01:15:54,400 --> 01:15:55,200
and it's ready to go

2556
01:15:55,200 --> 01:15:55,520
so

2557
01:15:55,520 --> 01:15:56,320
this almost looks

2558
01:15:56,320 --> 01:15:57,200
exactly the same

2559
01:15:57,200 --> 01:15:57,520
when I

2560
01:15:58,080 --> 01:15:58,880
when I look at it

2561
01:15:59,600 --> 01:16:00,400
so I just crank up

2562
01:16:00,400 --> 01:16:01,280
the volume on this

2563
01:16:01,840 --> 01:16:02,080
and

2564
01:16:03,040 --> 01:16:03,440
perfect

2565
01:16:06,000 --> 01:16:06,720
it's 1015

2566
01:16:06,720 --> 01:16:07,840
that's the end of the podcasting

2567
01:16:07,840 --> 01:16:08,560
session everybody

2568
01:16:27,920 --> 01:16:28,560
you've been listening

2569
01:16:28,560 --> 01:16:29,840
to the podcasting session

2570
01:16:29,840 --> 01:16:30,960
from blogger con three

2571
01:16:30,960 --> 01:16:32,400
held at stanford university

2572
01:16:32,400 --> 01:16:34,240
on november 6 2004

2573
01:16:34,800 --> 01:16:35,760
my name is dug k

2574
01:16:35,760 --> 01:16:36,320
and I hope you'll

2575
01:16:36,320 --> 01:16:37,120
join me next time

2576
01:16:37,120 --> 01:16:38,240
for another edition of

2577
01:16:38,240 --> 01:16:39,440
it conversations