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Well, hi, everybody. Welcome to the Daily Source Code coming to you from Central Park

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in New York City. It's Saturday, it is 115 in the afternoon. Today is the 16th of April,

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2005, and it couldn't be a more beautiful day in the city. This is one of those picture

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perfect moments, and I've kind of got the right mood for sitting here on a bench central

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park on the west side, actually. That's I see right off of Fifth Avenue, and so that's

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the loud was at 57th Street. That's kind of where you enter the park across from the Plaza Hotel.

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And the sun is shining, I'd say it's about, oh, just a guess, probably about 75, 76 degrees,

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is it a slight breeze, which just makes it absolutely beautiful. Sun, of course, is bright,

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and it's the oasis in this madhouse known as madhattan. This is actually one of the few places

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in the world where I don't feel self-conscious about talking into myself, which I'm not. I'm talking

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to you. You listening to this in your computer, or maybe you have it in your ears. You're listening

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on your MP3 player, or perhaps you've got your FM transmitter blasting on your car radio. Maybe

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you've burned this to a CD. That's all completely valid ways to listen to a podcast.

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A couple of things, I mean, well, we're at a start, right, and I'm a little bit fuzzy because

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definitely went to bed way too late last night. Had one night to catch up with a couple of friends,

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and I'll talk about that, but that's, I got to go back, was it three days now, back to

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Thursday. Yeah, Thursday, right, when I went to Denver. So I'm just going to try and

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wrap up a little bit of the week here in New York and talk to you a bit about what's been going on,

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and some things you can expect in the next couple of weeks. Actually, I was planning on having

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Ron Bloom do a strategy cast with me. Excuse me, this is a fine cup of Chino that I'm

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sipping here from Angela's Rock and Roll Delhi. I'm actually looking to look at this cup for a second.

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We are crazy about great food in Rock and Roll, 1428-6 Avenue, right at the park, open seven days,

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we deliver, and we cater for all occasions. Corporate accounts, welcome. But we were just so wiped out

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from from the week, and last night, Ron is here with his wife, Martha. They pretty much,

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if Ron is out of town for more than a day or two, then she always comes along. They used to live in New York,

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so she got plenty of friends. And she's been kind of taking care of us every night, making sure

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that we had a place to eat, and that we were everything. We were taking care of it just so sweet.

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And last night, she said, no, we're going to go out to dinner, we're going to have our last dinner

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New York, and I looked at Ron and I knew he was so fucking fried and I said, dude, let's just chill out.

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It's actually went to sleep for an hour or two before my friends showed up around 1030.

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So let's go back to Thursday. Thursday, Ron and I flew out for a day trip to Denver.

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And this is kind of funny because we did this trip 10 years ago, almost to the day, probably.

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We flew out to meet with Glenn Jones. Glenn Jones is the founder, and I guess he still does.

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I don't know if he's the solo owner, but it bears his name, and I think he pretty much is the guy

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calls all the shots of Jones cable, and Jones cable owned a lot of cable networks.

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And at that at least 10 years ago, he did. And we went out at that time to talk to him about the

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internet. And I don't remember all of them meeting, but I remember a lot of it, and I think that we met

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with some other people primarily, you know, like his managers and or what you might call

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to tenants and pitch this idea of the internet. And at the time he was certainly interested.

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He's a, either a techno file. He's very interested in technology. He has, well, and he kind of

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have to be, if you're a certainly 10 years ago cable, even though it may have been perceived by many

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is trench diggers. You know, there's a lot of technology that has grown up within the cable business.

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Just look at your cable mode. And you know, that was not something people were thinking of 10 years ago.

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But I think Glenn Jones might have been. And although he was interested at the time,

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we were looking at that time for investment. He didn't take any, and he wished us well,

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and that went very well, as far as I'm concerned. So we had the opportunity to go back and talk

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to about podcasting, and he was very well prepared. But you kind of got a, and I really wish

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like I could have done some sound seeing, and maybe one day I'll go back, and then I will do some

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sound seeing of the offices there, because it's, you know what it is? He's really an American dream

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come true. He's a, really the epitome of an American entrepreneur. He's, you know, he's got

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his beautiful offices there in Denver. He's building his legacy, which is Jones University,

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which is a university by a satellite. He was, he actually, he was just starting that 10 years ago,

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and I'm not quite sure how it's doing, but I think it's doing very well, just looking all the

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uplink dishes that are in the scattered amongst the grounds there. And he's also a major contributor

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to the US, the Congress, the Library of Congress. Is that right? Library of Congress?

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Oh, here comes a little squirrel. Hey squirrel. How are you doing?

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There's no tame here. Hey, hey buddy. Just walking right back.

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And so we, we didn't do a tour of the building, because it, not that much had changed, but

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what has changed is he sold all of his physical assets. I think he's pretty smart, you know,

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where people are saying, now you got to buy cable, but one more cable stations, you know,

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consolidate and he's saying, nah, it's over. He's selling. He's getting, he got rid of it all.

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He's rebuilding his empire in cyberspace, his virtual empire. He's doing, excuse me for a second.

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Perhaps I should have warned you. He's doing a building systems and all kinds of

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interesting projects. But he basically has a big water cache, and he's investing it. As I said,

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he's building his legacy. And my question of all of his assets, but he's heavy into radio,

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and he's very interesting. He knows a lot about it. And he's not a, not an extremely young guy.

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He's 74 years old. It doesn't look 74. But he's got to set up, you know, he's got,

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right across his offices. He's not quite sure what the name of the airfield is. Of course,

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not the main-gen airport. There's not an airfield, like five minutes across the way from his office.

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And he's got his, his hawker 800 jet there. So this is the guy that many guys would like to be.

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And he has his inner sanctum inside the office, and that, you know, it's kind of,

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what is it like? The real beautiful shiny wood kind of French 18 layers of lacquer.

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Just phenomenally beautiful with a library dining room area. He has a bedroom there if he wants to crash

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out, you know, the private inner sanctum. He also has, and this is so cool. He has a war room.

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We didn't go in at this time. Remember, 10 years ago, it's, you know, you go through these

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security revolving doors, only one person at a time, and, you know, you really can't get in or out

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without, without him, you know, the retinal scan type, the wheel, which is just, it's showy, but it's,

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it's cool, you know, if you're going to build something, you're going to build a war room,

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build it anyway, and there he's got, you know, just topped a bottom monitors and, you know,

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the theater seats, and he can control his entire empire and monitor everything from there,

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which is, you know, the kind of the, wah-ha-ha, I'll give you a white kitten to pet to what I

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sit in my war room. But really, now the nowadays, it's a use for his, for his Jones University.

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So, you know, you kind of want to bring each other up to date, you know, what you've been doing,

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and he served lunch for us, and it was Ron, myself, Gary Schoenfeld from Media America, who I started

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on-ramp with 10 years ago, before Ron joined, and I think Gary sold his company to Jones,

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and so he's a member of the InterSanctum. So, you know, we were kind of talking, and they were

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sort of, what, what do we get? We first got a nice, pronged cocktail, you know, the jumbo shrimp,

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and then the main course was this, just, I, I, I, I, I, I, in fact, I actually said, you know,

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Glenn, I got to tell you this, this, this, this beef, this meat, it's just so wonderful. It's so

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the texture, the flavor, and I knew that they, I saw on the balcony of, uh, of the offices,

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of the office suite, that, you know, there was actually a barbecue, and they were, they'd barbecue

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this lunch for us at the office, go figure. Um, it's just wonderful, and he said, well, that's

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because it's, uh, Buffalo, and I never had Buffalo before, but, oh, man, it's just, what a great

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taste, and your knife almost just falls through this meat, you know, like butter almost. So,

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so we're in this, this, this, this meeting, and again, it's in the InterSanctum, and, you know, it's

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very chic, and it's, uh, it's very plush. And all I could think of as we're talking, and, you know,

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catching up on 10 years of history is man. Chris Rockwell from the Daily Download would love to

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experiment with Buffalo, you know, what comes out the other end after you've had Buffalo.

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So that was my, my private little joke moment that was going on there. Uh, so then we, uh,

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and we actually talked for quite a while, and then after that, we had a, uh, a presentation, uh,

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for several executives within, within the company, uh, to talk about, you know, what podcasting is,

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what, uh, where we feel it's going to go, what could be done, what the opportunities are,

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what the industry needs if we really want to turn this into a medium, which believe me is money,

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but was really exciting. First of all, there's some very smart people there,

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know a lot about radio and understand the current, uh, dynamics of the radio industry and,

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and have dreams that have wishes, you know, man, if only we could do this, and I think they got

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really excited every single time they figured out exactly what they could do. Um, um, one of the

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things that was exciting to me was, uh, in fact, talking to a couple of people from Jones University,

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they immediately glammed on to the power of, of podcasting, uh, in the scholastic system, and

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something that I'd like to bring up, if you haven't heard of it before, if you haven't seen it,

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a for about, oh, man, I think almost five years now, I've been running schoolblocks.com,

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and schoolblocks.com is a free weblog service for anyone who's going to use it for scholastic purposes,

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so that can be teachers, students, uh, administrative personnel, professors,

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anyone who was going to use this for an educational purpose, uh, is welcome to open up a weblog at schoolblocks.com.

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And, uh, it's not, you know, the fastest service in the world because, uh, well, it runs on one

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server, which is as tuned as possible, you know, but there's a lot of support that goes into

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at Marcus Mowler, who's been working with me for, uh, for as many years at least, um,

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maintains that 24-7, make sure the server's running provides support to people who kind of fall off the edge.

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It's, it runs on a vanilla server, so sometimes shit just breaks and fucks up, and, you know, that happens,

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and stuff that, um, a user can't even fix. I don't know if you've ever seen that with a vanilla site,

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where somehow something with the calendar and you switch over, or you switch over to the next month,

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and I'm not quite sure how you can get into the situation, but it can just break, and then you get this,

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or error at the home page of your weblog. So he fixes all that stuff regularly, and it just helps people

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when they don't quite understand. Um, we have a donation button on, uh, on all of the

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school blogs, um, a PayPal donation button. I think that I've received a whopping total of,

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maybe $500, and now probably $1,000 and five years, but that's not what it's about.

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It's, uh, maybe it's, we'll just call it one of my ways of, uh, of contributing back.

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Um, but they completely understand, uh, the power of, uh, of that interactivity. And you know,

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that was something that started in my daughter's class. And if, if you look at the traditional

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student teacher relationship, her, her, I'm going to say her, um, fifth grade class. That is with the

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Peter Ford or teacher. I talked about this in blog about it many, many times. Look up Peter Ford.

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He's one of the true heroes behind this project. And, um, if you have, you know, if a teacher

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says, okay, here's your assignment. I want you to write this, you know, story or paper or whatever,

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then the student will write it and we'll hand it into the teacher, you know, basically saying,

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okay, teach here it is. And, you know, here's my effort towards you because you're really writing it

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for the teacher and maybe not for anybody else. Now if the teacher said, if the assignment says,

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you know, write this on your web blog or write some blog posts about this topic or create a project

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outlined for this, uh, for this assignment. Um, then it kind of the dynamics change because not only

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will the teacher be able to see it, they'll be able to see it as you're writing it perhaps as

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edits occur. Your peers and the classroom will be able to read along and check it out. And, uh,

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as well as your family and friends and anyone else who give the URL to. So, all of a sudden there's

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an audience and then the dynamics are writing and reading and the interactivity between the two

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with comments, uh, really changes the way, you know, the work is done. And, uh, I'm not an educator.

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I, you know, I don't know anything about teaching. Uh, I wasn't too brilliant in school myself,

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but I've seen the results and I've seen how incredibly motivated kids got, um, to be a part of

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something like this. And, essentially, the podcasting part is, you know, we can add just a few

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bits to it and, you know, you can turn all of these, oh, I don't know how many thousands of school

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blogs are already created. You know, they all could be podcasting. They could be podcasts, uh, show notes

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and, uh, and podcast feeds. And, we talked about all the different kinds of opportunities there.

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And, uh, I think that something might come out of that. I'd be very excited to see if we can, uh,

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set something up, uh, particularly with Jones University, who knows what else. So, let's see,

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then we flew back, we flew coach. I mean, I can't, I just can't bring myself anymore to pay for

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business class or hire. I think we've talked about this a couple times, uh, the price is just so

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fucking outrageous. It's just, you know, it's not normal anymore. And what do you get? You know,

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you don't get any real extra benefit, a little bit of legroom perhaps, but, um, you know,

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what we're talking about, three and a half hours. That's not too bad. And it was an Airbus A319,

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you know, my favorite. I love the Airbus. That's what easy jet flies. So, I actually discovered now

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that I could take easy jet for a longer period than, uh, than the regular hour that it takes to get to Amsterdam.

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So, in total, I was on easy jet for seven hours, uh, easy jet on, uh, United, uh, back and forth

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from Denver, uh, for total of seven hours. Uh, and it didn't kill me. I wasn't too bad. We did

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investigate an upgrade, which is going to be $325 per person each way. That's as screw it dude. Well,

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let's drink $700 worth of wine and we get back, which we haven't done. So, I guess we did pretty good.

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I was something else I was going to say about the two. Oh yeah, United is the only airline

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by the way. Uh, and as far as I know, the only airline, uh, ever in the states to have a, on channel nine,

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they, uh, they do from the flight deck. And essentially, you're just listening into the comms on the radio.

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So, you're not actually hearing the cockpit, but you're listening to whatever is the, uh, the, the,

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the captain and, uh, whatever is heard up on the flight deck on the radio. So, you can really follow

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along air traffic control, um, on the way out, uh, there was only music on channel nine and I said,

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I asked the, uh, flight attendant, you know, can you please ask the captain to turn it on and

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say, no, this captain won't do that. I don't like what the fuck. What are you afraid of, dude? You know,

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afraid that we're going to hear you screw up or something like that? Who told on my battery

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pack almost fell out? Um, but the way back, um, I was able to track us all the way from Denver,

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from Denver to, uh, let's see Minneapolis. I think it was Minneapolis first.

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Minneapolis, then Chicago, it was Chicago Minneapolis. Uh, there's my topology for you.

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Cleveland and eventually, uh, into New York. Um, and I hadn't really had a chance to

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really sit there and listen to air traffic control for, you know, the big guys, uh, because usually

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I'm, um, you know, much, much lower altitude. We're talking, like, between, uh, 500 and, uh, and

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4,000 feet versus, you know, flight level 35. Oh, it was like 35,000 feet and higher. Uh, but I could, of

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course, follow along the knew what they were talking about. And, uh, that was quite enjoyable. Uh,

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that made it, especially because Oceans 12 was the movie and I'd already seen that. So, uh,

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I was, uh, I was kind of cool just chilling back and just, uh, kind of, uh, flight. It was,

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you know what it was? It was basically a sound seeing tour for me. That's what it was.

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Shitty quality, of course, on the, uh, in the, in flight entertainment system, but it was a total

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sound seeing experience, uh, and I, and I really enjoyed that. I think it was anything funny that I

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heard them talking about on the way. Not basically, they were just asking for ride reports, you know,

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well, how's the chop, which means any turbulence? And, uh, if there's turbulence, the

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pilots will pass that on to air traffic control. And, uh, you know, they can change altitudes accordingly,

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uh, to kind of avoid it and make the flight for the passengers that much more enjoyable.

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I knew, I know there's something that I'm forgetting to say about, uh, about the flight back. But

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anyway, so got in back to LaGuardia, we got in late, completely fried. Uh, so that was the, the first

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source code that I wasn't able to be able to cut for the week because of, uh, just total fried

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ness. And I wanted to say something about the elevator cast. Um, so the responses that I received to

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it, uh, were overwhelmingly positive. Uh, it seems that this theater of the mind and, you know,

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what's going to happen next and, and just being there and closing your eyes and listening to, you know,

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whatever I was doing or describing as we're going through steps, uh, is very compelling to people.

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Uh, and I personally, I'd love to hear lots more sound seeing towards, I love listening to

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bicycle mark and, you know, match-wine steering going to target, you know, trips me out. Um,

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but some people made some very, a very valid point which I hadn't thought about. Um, it's one

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thing I guess to be walking around and have kind of a, a background of noise that you can listen to

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and follow along with. It's another thing, well, actually, and also, and I feel that if I'm in an

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elevator and, you know, that's a public space and if people are talking to each other while I'm

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standing there, then, you know, that's okay. That's a part of background noise and, you know,

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if someone just, if we just strike up a conversation, I think that's kind of where maybe I did go a

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little bit overboard, uh, because essentially I'm, I'm recording people illegally, uh, or

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without their knowledge. And so I talked to, you know, the extra who, um, who was waiting in line

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for her shot at, uh, being an extra. Uh, there was the auditions. Uh, on the, the WB, uh, pilot

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for, what is it, the new WB show, the prince? That actually isn't very cool, uh, to do that without

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someone's consent. Uh, yeah, it's cool to talk and ask people for someone questions and say,

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hey, what's going on, but it's, I guess, not cool to, to put that on a podcast. There just really

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wasn't thinking about it. So, uh, there's a good point there, and I, and I won't do that, uh,

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again, purposely. Now, if I'm just sitting here on the, on the bench, and someone would sit next

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to me and strike up a conversation, I think I'd probably talk to him for a couple of minutes before I'd

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say, you know, by the way, this is being podcast, uh, but purposely going out probably wasn't okay.

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And, and one of two people mentioned it, and, and first I thought, I don't know what's that

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shit, man. And then I thought, no, that really is kind of a good point. Although, um, it's happened to

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me in another context. I was, um, at the BBC, um, a while back. Remember I did the BBC sound

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seeing tour, which I announced I was doing it at that, at that point, so that was cool. And I said,

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hey, you know, I'm, I'm recording all of this. And that's, uh, uh, uh, that was for click online.

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And, uh, a couple days later, um, uh, the pieces from the interview that I was doing on camera,

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showed up in a piece on BBC.com, uh, in a technology piece, which, by the way, I like, I like,

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was written. I thought it was pretty funny. Uh, Koso wrote that. He's, uh, from the blog cast,

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VLUG. Um, but he didn't tell me that he was going to, you know, because he was basically sitting

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next to the camera next to the person interviewing me. Uh, he didn't tell me that that was going

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to be written up into an interview as if we had sat down and we're doing an interview. And it was

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kind of surprising. Um, and also, and, and the thing that was really surprising to me is that on

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camera, um, uh, I was talking about podcasting, you know, a camera, of course,

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camera, exactly what the question was. But then I said, as a joke on camera, which is a totally

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different context, I say, you know, I really should be knighting for this stuff. And when you, you know,

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I was doing it to the camera, you know, doing a play to the audience who would be watching if they

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were to use, I don't know if they used that in the, in the, in the, in the, in the piece or not.

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But I did that in a very different context than I would have done it with someone who was doing a

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written piece. And so when it showed up in writing, I was like, oh, well, that kind of is taking

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out of context. So, oops, the trash cart passing by. So it was taking a bit out of context.

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And I was surprised. And, you know, and, and I, and I, and I really said, oh, memo to self, you know,

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got to be careful about stuff like that because, uh, if you don't know that you're being recorded

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in a certain context, it can come across pretty weirdly. And so that really struck home with me

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when people said, you know, hey, dude, maybe you shouldn't be recording people without their consent.

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Just, I mean, forget the legal standpoint. The ethical standpoint is more important. And I received an email

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from Dave Slusher, uh, who pointed out to me as well. And I got a degree. So I appreciate you guys

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sent me straight on that one. You're totally right. Okay. So now we're at Friday. Friday we had

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planned to kind of spend time in New York. Um, um, we have a relationship with Bear Stearns,

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which is a big banking company. Uh, there's, uh, they have a private banking, basically it's people

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who who help you spend your money. And, uh, Ron and I are both clients there. And, uh,

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it was certainly by no means, you know, the most important clients on the block. But they're very,

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very nice to us and set us up with a conference room and facilities whenever we're in towns.

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We basically can have an office. Um, and it's, it's so cool. They have, um, you know, of course,

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the, you know, banks are basically big, um, databases, you know, that would have database operators.

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And those would be the, the traders and people who are using the system. That's what it is. It's all

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about systems. And when banks merge, you know, the offices aren't important. It's merging their

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incredibly large data systems together, uh, because, you know, there's computations that are

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being made. And we did some work at a previous company for bankers trust and the derivatives

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division. So I learned a lot about what goes on in banks. And it's, it's all about computers and

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data and how fast it can be calculated, computated, how you can apply models and predictions

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and it's risk management. Um, so of course, you can't just, you know, jacking to a network there.

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And if you think there's no Wi-Fi networks believe me, um, uh, uh, so they have a conference room for us,

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which actually has a separate DSL line coming into the building. So it's a very convenient.

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Oh, I just remembered what I was going to say about, uh, about our flight from Denver. Um,

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it's, it was, it was about security because, you know, it's now still at New York, every single,

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office building you walk into, particularly if it, uh, if it has a bank in it, um, there's the equivalent

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of airport security that you go through and your pictures take. And interestingly enough, by the

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same Logitech setup, you know, that is used when you come into the country. So there was a big sales

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job there, man. Someone really made a bunch of dough on, on selling the, uh, the security equipment.

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And then, you know, you put your bag through a scanner and, uh, you know, it's all basically,

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I think, just for insurance purposes. But I wanted to point out that it is now illegal

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to carry a lighter or matches on board of any, uh, US air carrier. Um, and I was,

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it's actually, I think it's been illegal to carry matches or lighter in your bag or your check

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baggage for the past 30 years. Nice cigar here. Let me get that cranking. Um, but now you

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not let allowed to even have one in your pocket, uh, which sucks if you're carrying like a really

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nice lighter, uh, because they'll confiscate it. And, uh, you cannot take it on board in any way.

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And the reason for this is, uh, the same reason we're taking our shoes off, ladies and gentlemen,

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uh, the genesis of the lighters is because of the one guy, uh, and I'm not trying to downplay it,

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you know, who tried to set off an explosive device in his shoe. So the way to make it, so apparently

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what the transport security TSA has decided is that the way to eliminate that risk besides taking your

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shoes off and having those examined is to not allow you to like anything. Uh, which of course makes

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sense, but you know, why don't we just, uh, take your fucking grain out, okay? So you can't think

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and can't do anything and then just leave all the damn checks to for what it is, you know,

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then we don't have to worry about it. It's getting pretty fucking frustrating. And now, uh,

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the news reports are that, uh, although we've, you know, we've hired and are paying for 45,000

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people at, uh, airport security. Um, we're pretty much not that much more secure than we were before,

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yet, duh. Um, um, and, and so now, uh, I think, uh, the administration is saying the solution to

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that is to put more technology in place. So again, I'm just for a temporary lobotomy, so that you

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can't think or act like a terrorist. I guess that's the best solution. It's pretty fucking tedious.

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It really pisses me off. It's a, I just hate being lied to when it's snow job, you know, it's like,

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it's marketing and has nothing to do with security. You're not any more safe, um, going through

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the current security than you were, you know, 10 years ago. It's just not true. So in once

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a do something, there's plenty of ways to do it. And by the way, you can still fly down right through

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the New York corridor with, you know, with a lightweight aircraft or an aircraft you want, you know,

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you, it's just don't think that just because they're taking your tax dollars and spending it on

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people in, uh, in white suits with impressive looking logos that is really any more effective.

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So Friday, um, we had a conference room all set up at Bear Stearns and we had Brian,

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Brian Longus. He haven't met yet. Brian is doing, doing operations for us at Pod Show.

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He lives in DC and he came up. It was a mess because of the trains, you know, the, the high

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speed trains apparently have faulty brakes. So they're, uh, checking them all out and that just

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really messed up the train systems. He, he was coming in a lot later. And I got, well, first of all,

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I got a call from, um, Dave from Rolling Stone Magazine and he wanted to do an interview and I'll tell

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you that, uh, Rolling Stone Magazine when they call, you know, he kind of want to make some time

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for him. It's, uh, it's an influential publication and I was just delighted to hear that, uh,

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that the, the journalist, um, had worked at Sonic Net back in the days when, uh, we were just

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starting up on ramp and, uh, we were actually looking at Sonic Net. We were pretty jealous because,

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you know, those guys had some great funding and they were doing all kinds of cool content later.

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I think that actually was, it was sold to MTV, uh, and we were doing Metaverse.com and the vibe

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and cyber sleaze and not making a fricking dime with it. Um, and we essentially, uh, in order to

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create a business, started doing things like that, but uh, worked for hire for companies like

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Anheuser Bush for Budweiser. We built Budweiser.com and, um, and Reebok.com and did a lot of fun

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sites that at the, at the time had a lot of entertainment. It was related to, uh, activities the company

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was involved in. So Reebok, you can only imagine, you know, we went to lots of games, interviewed

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superstars, like Shaq, for instance, who had signed up with Reebok back then, uh, for Budweiser.

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We went to a lot of their sporting events and we did, uh, cyber cast, which meant, you know,

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like, see you see me streaming video, audio recordings of, you know, anything we could get our hands on.

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And, uh, that was, uh, those were really fun days actually. So he had grown up with, uh, the internet

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and, uh, and had witnessed all the, the going commercial part. He's actually written, uh, a book.

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Now, forgetting the title, uh, but it's the story about, uh, the guys that id software,

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who created Doom and Quake, and now he's writing another book. And, uh, so we, uh,

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walked a bit on the streets, uh, talked about, you know, the potential of podcasting,

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certainly in relation to music, which I'm getting really excited about, what, what we can do with

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pod save music, because the more I'm exposed to what's out there.

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New York is a great place to get exposed to all kinds of pod save music, because this is where

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people come to try and make it, you know, it's, uh, this is where people are playing in the clubs,

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waiting to be discovered. He, uh, pauses you here once in the while, it's been taking a

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sip of coffee or a choke on the sea guard. 31 minutes into this. I'm going to try and keep it at

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40. Uh, and I, uh, I kind of squeezed him in because I received a call when I got in, uh,

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late Thursday night from Denver. There was a call on my voicemail from a music industry legend,

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his name is Harvey Leeds. And if you've heard us talk about the Ken Clark and I on the MTV

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Chronicles, heard us talk about, uh, Steve Leeds at MTV. Harvey is his brother, and Harvey has been

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an epic, uh, which is now Sony records or epic Sony records for 30 years. Um, he was there at the,

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the very beginning of MTV, you know, when, you know, when no one knew how to promote a video,

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promote a band through a video. He's always been, uh, in the promotion part of the record industry.

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And he's, uh, he's just, he's a great guy to know. I mean, he's extremely well-loved, extremely

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connected. Um, he knows how to, you know, and he loves the music, you know, he'll, he'll fly a million

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miles in the baggage space of an airplane just to see a band play that he really believes in and

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and he'll promote the heck out of him. He, he does a great job with that. Um, and he, uh, called me and

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he said, you know, I don't want to talk about podcasting, you know, can you? He, come on over. And

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come on over means he invited Ron and I to lunch in the Sony club, which is, this is kind of funny.

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This is on the, oh god, I don't know, it's what it's like, the 40th or 50th floor of the Sony building

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it's 55th and, uh, a Madison. And it's a, um, what kind of, it's kind of like an observation deck,

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only it's one big restaurant with multiple rooms. And it's only for, uh, the big, important meetings.

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It's, yeah, every band has this as well. It's, you know, when, when either just before you're about

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to sign the big artist or if you want to celebrate or, you know, if anyone's doing a big deal,

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then you take him up to the Sony club, that is if you have enough pull, right? If you got the

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juice of the cloud to, to, to be allowed to eat up in the Sony club, uh, then you, uh, then you go up there

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and it's very classy and chic. And I've been there, I was there 10 years ago, I think with Sony,

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it was that it was the hardware division. I'm not quite sure why, but I was invited up there,

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you know, personal waiters and butlers and, you know, everything's just right in the food is, you know,

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prepared personally and there's all different types of kitchens and and cuisines and you name it.

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It's impressive. And it's fun, you know, it's fun to do that because you can, when you're up there,

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you look out the south side and you can almost reach out to David Copperfield's three-story penthouse

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apartment, you know, we can basically see him walking up and down his own house. That's kind of

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funny. I don't know, the wind is picking up a little bit. And Harvey totally has the juice, you know,

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you can, uh, everyone is like, hey, Harvey, how you doing? The waiter is, hey, Harvey, how are you?

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Usually table Harvey, you're like your usual iced tea, Harvey, you know, and as I said, you know,

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if you can be in the industry that long, certainly at one company and he's worked with every single

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artist you can you can think of and he knows them all personally and he has this little kind of like

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cubby hole of an office, but it's just it's a shrine to 30 years of music history piled up all over the

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place and I'm sure he has five times that size somewhere stored away, he just filled with crap that

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that he can't put in his current configuration. And I'm trying to think which part of the story I want

356
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:11,360
to tell first. Yeah, well, so basically what he wanted and the meeting was not just with Harvey,

357
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:21,760
it was also with the vice president of new media and his name is Corey, Corey Luellen. Yeah,

358
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:27,760
vice president of Epic Records, New Media, that's just getting his business card here.

359
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:35,200
And what it is is, Harvey was saying, you know, dude, I've been listening to these podcasts.

360
00:35:36,240 --> 00:35:42,080
I want to podcast, you know, I want to like promote and there he is, right, Harvey promoting stuff,

361
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:46,400
you know, he's he's they're all these records that have to people that so many probably don't

362
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:49,680
even know these signed these artists, you know, and he's like, I kind of want to promote and

363
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:55,360
want people to catch your buzz. You know, Harvey is the guy that when he has new band he wants to promote

364
00:35:55,360 --> 00:36:00,640
and one way to do that is through getting them out in front of public, you know, get them playing

365
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:07,440
for people. Then, you know, if he finds out whichever act is performing somewhere and he'll basically

366
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:14,160
beg and plead and do whatever to get one of the newer acts to open up for the successful big act.

367
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:21,760
And it was pretty interesting because he isn't the kind of guy that's thinking about lawyers and,

368
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:28,240
you know, RIA, even though he is essential part of that wheel, he just wants to get good music out there.

369
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:36,080
And we went through a couple scenarios and we talked about, you know, why not a lot of RIA

370
00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:40,160
music is being played on podcast. And we can't put a couple of really interesting ideas,

371
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:44,720
some of which would have landed us both in jail and made us beautiful cellmates. I should

372
00:36:44,720 --> 00:36:50,640
anyone decide to come down on us. We also can't put some really good ideas of ways to promote

373
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:57,280
basically pod safe music and, you know, some other ways to create sign-off and put some

374
00:36:58,240 --> 00:37:03,920
and basically trying to create ways to make some or as much as possible,

375
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:10,160
available for use in podcasting. It really is just a just a question of legality.

376
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:16,240
Which is the same I learned for satellite radio. Here's something I learned.

377
00:37:16,240 --> 00:37:21,440
Satellite radios, although not entirely regulated the way it's restory or radio is regulated,

378
00:37:22,240 --> 00:37:27,200
does have to adhere to the digital millennium copyright act. And part of the stipulation of the

379
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:33,200
digital millennium copyright act because it does involve digital streams and downloading or a version

380
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:38,720
of downloading from digitally digital copies. Let's put it that way. It's that you cannot,

381
00:37:38,720 --> 00:37:45,360
on satellite radio, you cannot play more than two tracks by one artist or I think from the same

382
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:52,560
album after each other. So there has to be a separation there of, I don't know exactly what the

383
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:58,560
separation is. It's hours or channels or whatever, because then essentially the theory is that if

384
00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:04,400
you didn't do that, you could cobble together the entire CD, which of course is ludicrous.

385
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:10,880
I'm sure people could do it, but who the heck is doing that? Some, maybe, all, probably not.

386
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:19,040
And so there's, you know, if you want to do like the, what should we say? If you want to do the

387
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:24,000
Bruce Springsteen tribute hour or Bruce Springsteen's coming out with a new record and you want to

388
00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:29,680
cut up an interview with Bruce Springsteen with, with tracks with a new record, it's either you

389
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:35,120
can't do it or you have to get an actual sign off for each individual project and Harvey is one

390
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:43,920
of the people who can sign off. So we had a lovely lunch. They had pineapple slushies just perfect.

391
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:50,320
We sat in a nice, you know, curved little booth and a couple of observations. First of all,

392
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:59,120
the lobby downstairs. So you have the Sony lobby, which is, I don't know, it's, you have the public

393
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:03,520
space down in the Sony building. You get up in one elevator bank that only goes to the Sony

394
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:08,240
music lobby and that's basically where you enter into the Sony music realm and you have to

395
00:39:08,240 --> 00:39:14,240
check in and, you know, it's a security check once again. And the elevator doors open and it

396
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:20,720
looks like a hip hop convention. There must be 15 different hip hop groups. Some of them

397
00:39:20,720 --> 00:39:30,960
cutting a video, others just walking around with cell phones. It was a madhouse essentially and

398
00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:37,120
everyone had to wait in line for their name to be taken down and it's like four or five reception

399
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:40,960
is just, you know, going out at all the time and then they have to call up and the way they're

400
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:44,480
doing it because it was, you know, just so crowded and like everybody was there. It seemed like

401
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:48,720
everyone there had a record deal, it was cutting a record deal or it was going to be the next p-ditty.

402
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:56,080
You know, it took a while and what they do is they take down your name and then you wait and

403
00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:59,840
then they call out your name really loudly and then you pick up your badge and then you can go through.

404
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:05,840
And it's a madhouse and we're like it's exactly one o'clock and so I call up to Harvey's office and

405
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:10,160
talk to his lovely assistant and I said, you know, we're down in the lobby, it's a madhouse so

406
00:40:10,240 --> 00:40:14,400
we're going to probably about 10 minutes late just let, you know. And Simon LeBon is standing right

407
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:19,280
in front of me, Simon from LeBon from Duran Duran who on Wednesday night I think sold out the garden

408
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:25,600
completely sold it out for a concert and he's standing there just like like us two Joe Shmoans

409
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:30,400
waiting in line and you know, the guy says, okay, what's your name? It's his Simon LeBon.

410
00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:36,320
You had a picture ID and he says, no, I don't, you know, because, you know, maybe he didn't, you know,

411
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:41,280
in Europe, you don't have pictures on your driver's licenses and I don't, I guess he didn't have his passport with him.

412
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:46,560
I've learned now to carry my passport with me and, you know, and then so he's waiting and Simon,

413
00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:51,120
you can just see he's like, oh man, he's getting impatient, but he's taken it with great stride,

414
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:55,840
but it's not like the old days, you know, where you'd have a real vibe and it was cool music playing

415
00:40:55,840 --> 00:41:00,400
when you come into a record company and, you know, people were zigging and zagging and getting

416
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:06,000
shit done and now it's just like this huge corporate marble piece of shit structure and he's

417
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:11,920
Simon LeBon, you know, and he's a, to me, he's still a superstar and he's being treated just with

418
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:19,600
as much disrespect as the rest and then they call out his name Simon LeBon so he could pick up his

419
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:26,880
past to get in and then Harvey's assistant came down and actually got us and walked us through

420
00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:32,640
as that was kind of cool, I got a better treatment than Simon LeBon, so that was one thing

421
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:37,280
that I noticed right there, I'm like, you know, man, this is really weird, you know, this is not

422
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:41,520
the type of image you want to project of a hip swing and company that knows what it's doing

423
00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:45,920
and is really going to, you know, is on the cutting edge of music, take another sip.

424
00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:55,520
And as we were upstairs, I always, first went to his office who went up to the Sony club, I noticed

425
00:41:55,520 --> 00:42:01,840
that the Sony club is fraying at the edges, my friends, it no longer, the other carpet isn't

426
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:08,880
well, the carpet's probably 15 years old by that this point, it's fraying, you know, it's just,

427
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:16,400
it's not as, they had, you know, it's decaying, it's slowly decaying and we were the only guys in there

428
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:23,040
that were talking about music, all the other tables were lawyers and, you know, the discussion

429
00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:27,040
invariably at points is we're talking, then Harvey would lower his voice and say, you know,

430
00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:31,920
the lawyers, because that's the culture of these places now, everything is being run by lawyers who are

431
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:38,160
just trying to figure out who can get the most money from each little piece of music and it hit me

432
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:44,000
then that these record companies, they're already, they understand the long-tail concept and they're

433
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:48,400
already applying it, you know what, hold on a second, I want to, the spot where I'm sitting right now

434
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:56,160
is now longer in the sun, so let me just move over two benches to get in the sun like, hold on

435
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:04,000
all the benches, by the way, have placards on and we'll read a couple of them to you,

436
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:10,880
a memory of Benjamin and Estelle Wachtell for Carol E. Holtzmann, in celebration of her 80th birthday

437
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:19,520
with love from her grandchildren, Brooke Alexandra Jackman, a shining star with a radiant smile,

438
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:25,760
compassionate, intelligent and beautiful, always loved the joy of our lives, didn't live very long,

439
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:38,000
82878, of course 9101, wow just hit me when I saw the date, let's sit on this one, shall we?

440
00:43:38,240 --> 00:43:48,880
Wow, I just got a chill, I didn't recognize the 9101 because European date would be 11901,

441
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:57,680
quick reflection there people, okay, so now we're sitting back in the sunshine,

442
00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:01,520
I was talking about the long-tail concept,

443
00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:09,840
the record companies, at least this one, I presume the other three at this point, whatever it is,

444
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:16,080
they're totally applying the long-tail concept, what they're doing is they're just, you know,

445
00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:20,880
and so the long-tail concept is, you know, you can have, let's say, one record that will sell

446
00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:27,840
10 million copies, doesn't happen that often anymore, or you can have 10 records that sell a million

447
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:32,880
and that's what the record companies are doing, they're just signing up hip-hop groups for

448
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:37,200
predominantly, I think, or at least that's what I saw on the lobby, left and right, given

449
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:41,520
him shitty deals, you know, the first deal is always shitty when it comes to record companies,

450
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:46,000
you get nothing, you'll wind up with nothing, you might get a little advance, you can go buy some

451
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:52,160
bling, but that's pretty much it, and they just pump them out, you know, and each one, if they

452
00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:57,520
can sell 100,000 copies, that's a million bucks, you know, and they just keep cranking it out and

453
00:44:57,520 --> 00:45:03,920
cranking it out, and what they've done very successfully, which seems unethical, and you could argue

454
00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:10,560
about that, is they've just set it up so that if there's no more sales, you drop them, just drop

455
00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:15,840
it like it's hot, drop it like it's hot, and you get rid of it, and then just let them disintegrate

456
00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:18,960
into nothing, you know, that's what the record business has been really good at, because the

457
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:24,080
record business is all about contracts and laws, et cetera, and a little bit about the creativity,

458
00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:28,960
and so that's what's going on there, you know, while the big guys are upstairs fighting about

459
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:33,520
every single penny and trying to squeeze blood from a stone and, and therefore, hampering the

460
00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:39,040
distribution of music and hampering, in our case, the discovery of music, that's what podcasting

461
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:45,840
is bringing, I think, is ways to discover new talent, discover new artists, new music, new creative

462
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:53,680
people, that's being stifled, and then doing that themselves, and bully for them, you know,

463
00:45:53,680 --> 00:46:00,800
let them do whatever the heck they want. Harvey is, of course, the guy who gave me four CDs of

464
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:10,000
new stuff that no one has ever heard of, particularly sushi su is a name of a girl, I think it's a

465
00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:15,680
girl or a group who he's, he's really nuts about, and he has given me the personal Harvey

466
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:21,760
leads permission to play that on the podcast, so I'm going to do that when I get back to the cottage,

467
00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:24,880
I'm going to listen to the CDs, and if I like it, I certainly will play it.

468
00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:39,440
46 minutes, let's start wrapping this up. So here's what I learned with all the meetings, and we've

469
00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:44,000
done, you know, I can't just can't even physically tell you about everything because it's just so much.

470
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:49,360
First of all, New York is great, New York is kicking, New York is alive, and people are,

471
00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:58,240
to me, people are just here to get shit done, they're excited, everyone's trying to help each other

472
00:46:58,240 --> 00:47:02,560
in business, that's always kind of been that way, New York, but to me it feels like this city is

473
00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:11,600
really bounce back. I hooked up with Rick Kalman, the audio guy at MTV was my first,

474
00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:16,320
our Patricia and my, our first friend in New York, he was the guy that when we actually started

475
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:20,000
on the same day, I think at MTV, he started doing audio, and I started, of course, on air,

476
00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:25,360
and but he'd been in New York for a while doing radio, and doing all kinds of various types of

477
00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:28,800
jobs, and he was the first one that said, hey, come on, let's go out to dinner and he took us to a

478
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:33,040
show, which was simply what I think was playing at the Beacon Theatre, and he was just nice and

479
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:40,080
been friends for almost 20 years now, and we lose touch, and then we hook up again, and he came

480
00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:47,040
over last night, and we were talking about podcasting, and actually, of course, I said, Rick,

481
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:52,080
he hooked me up, you know, I haven't had anything to smoke in like a week, and he said,

482
00:47:52,080 --> 00:48:00,480
no, he's now working for Division of the New Jersey Police, where, of course, he has some

483
00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:05,920
tests that he has to take regularly, so he doesn't smoke anymore, but he invited one of

484
00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:12,080
two of his friends over who were kind enough to bring some of the holy herb along with them,

485
00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:22,800
and one of them was a musician, a nice girl, Shelly, and did I say that right?

486
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:34,640
I'm spacing on the names, and she was showing me where she has her music uploaded on her

487
00:48:34,720 --> 00:48:42,480
myspaces.com, they called a weblog, it's kind of a weblog, or you can set it up as a weblog,

488
00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:46,480
and that's kind of her community, that's where she gets gigs from, it's how she hooks up

489
00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:51,360
with other musicians, she produces and records all her stuff at home, it was a nice fire trek,

490
00:48:51,360 --> 00:49:00,560
truck going by the park with a police siren, and we were, you know, there's like three people

491
00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:04,000
in the room, and we're just hanging out, it was very much the American party, you know,

492
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:09,280
like, you got a bottle of coke, you got some potato chips, yeah, we got a party, and we're just chilling,

493
00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:14,640
and we're talking, and we're hanging out, and we talked about podcasting, and everyone had read about

494
00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:19,280
or heard about it, but really hadn't heard of podcast, and so I played a couple of four,

495
00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:24,560
I played a bit of East Radio, played a daily download, played some digital slots, some

496
00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:30,480
Catholic insider, you know, I tried to do a nice mix of, as an example of all kinds of different

497
00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:36,800
stuff, and of course, they were blown away and just loving every single moment of these podcasts,

498
00:49:38,240 --> 00:49:45,920
and that's one of the things I really learned while educating people about podcasting,

499
00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:52,960
because that's a big part of what I'm still doing is, you know, teaching people

500
00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:58,160
within the business community, you know, what it is, how it works, where it's going, what the

501
00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:04,080
potential is, what can be done with it, you know, and that varies from, as we've talked about,

502
00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:10,640
from the educational system to advertisers. It's the same thing I did 10 years ago, and that's

503
00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:14,560
exactly the same thing, so then it was like, you know, people said, what's this internet thing,

504
00:50:14,560 --> 00:50:18,960
and now they've kind of got that, and they know what an MP3 player is, or at least an iPod,

505
00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:26,560
and so in explaining this, again, I'm realizing that we are not by a long shot doing enough

506
00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:33,200
to get people listening. All of this talk, all of these, you know, tools that are being put out there,

507
00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:39,040
is really for podcasts, there's, and for people who are already podcasting, and maybe for people

508
00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:46,480
who have a real drive to podcast, but want a better tool, what is not being done, and this is,

509
00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:53,840
of course, going to be the part of the secret sauce of podshow.com, is people are not helping,

510
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:58,400
the listener, people need to learn how to tune into these things. You know, for me,

511
00:50:59,840 --> 00:51:05,120
my contribution to podcasting, or what is now called podcasting, was really creating,

512
00:51:05,120 --> 00:51:09,920
you know, the radio receiver portion, making the experience seamless. You know,

513
00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:16,320
people that have been recording programs, call them radio programs, or audio blogs, or whatever,

514
00:51:16,320 --> 00:51:22,720
and putting them up on the web on HTTP servers for years and years and years, people have been

515
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:29,760
attaching those to RSS files ever since Dave Weiner and I met, and he created the enclosure

516
00:51:29,760 --> 00:51:38,880
element in RSS 2.0. You know, that's been done, but what really made it happen, or at least what

517
00:51:38,880 --> 00:51:45,120
was the spark, I think, was the magical part, and I still call it magic, and I intended it to be magic.

518
00:51:45,120 --> 00:51:49,120
That's why my original iPod, or when I wrote it, was invisible, it was a script, you know,

519
00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:54,000
ran in the background, there was no player, no playlists, no organizational tool, it was just,

520
00:51:54,000 --> 00:52:00,560
you know, just go download this and put it on my iPod. That was the magical step, was removing,

521
00:52:00,560 --> 00:52:09,360
eliminating the waiting part, or any intervention, which gives it the illusion of a radio,

522
00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:13,920
a transistor radio that you pick up except the differences, you know, you don't have to

523
00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:18,240
tune in to find something, or, you know, or tune in at a certain time to listen to something

524
00:52:18,320 --> 00:52:23,760
that you want to, you know, you have the control there, your fingertips, and within a very

525
00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:29,200
short amount of time what I'm noticing is that it's gone beyond the MP3 player. It's beyond the box.

526
00:52:29,200 --> 00:52:34,240
People are hooked on the shows, on the content, on the creativity. That's what's going on,

527
00:52:34,240 --> 00:52:38,240
but we need to help more people learn how to listen, so when it comes to

528
00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:46,160
subscribing to a feed, it's still way too difficult. We have to do a hell of a lot more to help

529
00:52:46,240 --> 00:52:52,640
people learn how to receive and listen. We have to help listeners. We have to grow the listening

530
00:52:52,640 --> 00:52:57,680
audience, and I think there's ways to do it that go beyond the organic nature of it.

531
00:52:58,960 --> 00:53:03,040
Particularly because there's so many different ways that you can enjoy great audio.

532
00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:07,280
You could, you could buy it from audible, if you wish, you could, you know, that's a

533
00:53:07,280 --> 00:53:11,760
service that people know how to use, you know, that's a reasonably simple system.

534
00:53:12,720 --> 00:53:16,640
You should be able to get it from the iTunes music store. I'm not saying that you should have to buy it,

535
00:53:16,640 --> 00:53:19,600
you know, that's the business part of it. I'm just talking about the ease of use.

536
00:53:20,880 --> 00:53:27,680
It would be the most beautiful way is if you had an MP3 player that had everything built in and you

537
00:53:27,680 --> 00:53:32,240
just, you know, click and select and you don't have to do any cutting and pasting and, you know,

538
00:53:32,240 --> 00:53:38,480
or if there's a, you know, if you want to subscribe to a show, you use a barcode scanner. I don't

539
00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:41,840
know what the hell it is, but there's a million more ways to make this easy, because I think for

540
00:53:41,840 --> 00:53:46,560
every one person that is subscribed to a podcast and listening to it and enjoying it, there's

541
00:53:46,560 --> 00:53:53,520
10 that have fallen off the edge and have not figured out how to do it. Mainly because of it's still

542
00:53:53,520 --> 00:53:58,960
unclear, you know, and it's what's this little, why don't orange XML icon? Yeah, there's millions

543
00:53:58,960 --> 00:54:02,080
of people who understand what it is, but there's hundreds of millions who don't.

544
00:54:03,040 --> 00:54:10,800
So, part of the, the overall mission of podshow.com will be for listeners. In fact,

545
00:54:10,800 --> 00:54:17,200
our slogan is going to be, stick it in your ear and we're about making it easier for people

546
00:54:17,200 --> 00:54:23,120
to find the shows that want to listen to and actually listen to them and no matter where they

547
00:54:23,120 --> 00:54:28,640
are, no matter what system they have and there's going to be a lot of promotion in that and

548
00:54:28,640 --> 00:54:35,280
a lot of marketing and getting podcasters exposure. That's the way, you know, that's, that's the

549
00:54:35,280 --> 00:54:42,720
words with any of these kids are cute chasing their mom with little sticks. So cute.

550
00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:49,840
Oh, maybe it's their nanny who knows. So that's an important part of the mission of podshow.com,

551
00:54:49,840 --> 00:54:53,840
and that's what Ron and I were going to talk about in a strategy cast today, but that's going to

552
00:54:53,840 --> 00:54:58,320
have to wait until next week when I'm back in the UK at the cottage and we'll get on Skype,

553
00:54:58,320 --> 00:55:04,880
because that is one of the things we promised each other to do. It's definitely keep podcasting

554
00:55:04,880 --> 00:55:12,240
between the two of us so we can, you know, shit, how can you run a podcasting company in whatever

555
00:55:12,240 --> 00:55:18,960
sense of the word it is without, you know, podcasting yourself. So I hope everyone with an

556
00:55:18,960 --> 00:55:23,520
or company will be a podcaster or will do some form of podcasting. And of course, that doesn't

557
00:55:23,600 --> 00:55:29,520
have to be the salilicoid that I've done now for the past 55 minutes, which is way over my budgeted

558
00:55:29,520 --> 00:55:36,640
time. But then again, hey, Dougie, how are you Dougie? That's German Shepherd. That's way over my,

559
00:55:36,640 --> 00:55:42,400
my budgeted time for a daily source code. But of course, it's the weekend. So what the hey?

560
00:55:45,120 --> 00:55:52,400
Okay, so that will be my final thought for the day. It's

561
00:55:53,600 --> 00:56:00,320
as if on Q, let's probably run hold on. No, it's not wrong. Okay, another call.

562
00:56:01,840 --> 00:56:08,000
I'm going to wrap this up. It's been great in New York. I'm going to be back pretty soon.

563
00:56:08,000 --> 00:56:15,280
We're going to sit here. Actually, I'm going to be back in at the cottage for at least a couple

564
00:56:15,360 --> 00:56:24,160
weeks. Patricia is, see, she's going to be away May 12, 15th. I think 12th of the 15th. She's going

565
00:56:24,160 --> 00:56:30,160
to 3-8 trip to the south of France. So of course, I'll be home with Christina for that. This week,

566
00:56:30,160 --> 00:56:34,560
I believe, with a little bit of luck, if the weather holds out, the wing commander is picking me up

567
00:56:36,400 --> 00:56:41,600
at Therrokes, which is about 15 minutes from the cottage, with the, with the Sess No 182RG,

568
00:56:42,080 --> 00:56:47,040
we're going to do two days of training. I'm going to fly on Tuesday. We'll make a channel crossing.

569
00:56:47,680 --> 00:56:52,640
I'm going to stay overnight and then we'll do more training on Wednesday and then fly back. So

570
00:56:52,640 --> 00:56:59,360
that'll be just a little bit of relaxation. Get my mind off of, get my mind off of podcasting and

571
00:56:59,360 --> 00:57:05,920
work and the world the issues for a little while and just chill. And we'll be announcing some

572
00:57:05,920 --> 00:57:12,960
of the exciting deals that we've put together. Great ways for people to tune into podcast,

573
00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:18,480
to find podcasts, to listen to them, to really build some more momentum and excitement. Because I

574
00:57:18,480 --> 00:57:23,440
do see that still as my mission as a part of what we've created here in the podcast and community.

575
00:57:24,480 --> 00:57:29,360
So now we've, we've all got shows and we're creating and we're tracking probably about almost

576
00:57:29,360 --> 00:57:37,920
5,000 now at iPod.org. Popularity is going nuts. Popularity voting on podcast alley in other places

577
00:57:37,920 --> 00:57:44,720
like that. It's just phenomenal. But we have to expose this to more people and make it simpler for them

578
00:57:44,720 --> 00:57:50,880
to find out about podcasting and listen to podcasts and sample podcasts and and start to understand

579
00:57:50,880 --> 00:57:55,360
what it is and evangelize. Another part of that is meetup.com. That's another great place but

580
00:57:55,360 --> 00:58:00,640
shouldn't just be for podcasters. It should also be for people interested in podcasting and finding

581
00:58:00,640 --> 00:58:07,040
out what it is and listening and finding out how they can participate. That's, and I think that's

582
00:58:07,040 --> 00:58:13,840
really the way it goes. Because I asked the girl last night who was at our little party

583
00:58:14,400 --> 00:58:19,040
saying, okay, so you have myspaces.com, how do you find people? She says, well really, you just

584
00:58:19,040 --> 00:58:24,800
usually, you, you, someone tells you about it, you look at their myspaces, weblog. And this is the

585
00:58:24,800 --> 00:58:29,920
way it goes in weblogging, right? And then, you know, you'll join as a friend. So that's kind of

586
00:58:29,920 --> 00:58:35,360
the social networking aspect of it. You'll join with your own weblog. And then, you know, you'll

587
00:58:35,360 --> 00:58:38,880
find more people and people will find you. And it's how they find you. Well, usually buy your

588
00:58:38,880 --> 00:58:43,120
picture. You know, so everyone has beautiful pictures of themselves and sexy pictures and you click

589
00:58:43,120 --> 00:58:46,880
on it and then you hear their music and then you get information about them and you see more

590
00:58:46,880 --> 00:58:50,480
friends there. So that's kind of the viral aspect of it. And that's how it should be going with

591
00:58:50,480 --> 00:58:57,200
podcasting. And it could not only can't work, but it is working. It's just we have to make more

592
00:58:57,200 --> 00:59:05,040
of that available. And that's not just going to be tools and, you know, create, listen, synchronize,

593
00:59:05,040 --> 00:59:10,560
you know, that's not it. That is part of it, but that's more for people who are already podcasting

594
00:59:10,560 --> 00:59:15,120
and already in this medium that we're trying to build. And remember, we're still building this.

595
00:59:15,120 --> 00:59:21,600
So if that means, it's funny because Dave Winner is written on scripting news and had heard

596
00:59:21,600 --> 00:59:26,960
him say it in a podcast recently that the quote is, Adam Curry has sold out to the dark side.

597
00:59:27,840 --> 00:59:30,960
And I'm not quite sure what he means. I haven't sold anything out.

598
00:59:31,840 --> 00:59:37,680
That I'm not quite sure if you split that up sold out. I mean, that's like an artist and musician

599
00:59:37,680 --> 00:59:43,280
selling out, which basically means going commercial. And the dark side, I'm not quite sure what the

600
00:59:43,280 --> 00:59:50,560
dark side means for Dave Winner probably means mainstream media. So I'm not, you know, my action

601
00:59:50,560 --> 00:59:55,600
so far, I don't think have shown any selling out of anything. Certainly not anything we've announced.

602
00:59:55,600 --> 01:00:02,240
And I don't know what the dark side is. I don't know. Is the dark side Microsoft? You know,

603
01:00:02,240 --> 01:00:08,640
I don't think so. I think the people of Microsoft are very intelligent and are very smart.

604
01:00:08,640 --> 01:00:12,560
And you know, is that the big record business? No, I don't think so. That's Harvey League, you know,

605
01:00:12,560 --> 01:00:18,320
guys who would actually love to podcast themselves and are trying to make it so that we can use

606
01:00:18,320 --> 01:00:25,760
RIA music. These are all just people. You know, I think that's, you know what, if something

607
01:00:25,760 --> 01:00:30,800
Dave sent me in a private email once, he said, why do you take it up the ass from the mainstream media?

608
01:00:31,360 --> 01:00:35,280
And because, you know, I do a lot of interviews when someone wants to, and actually haven't

609
01:00:35,360 --> 01:00:40,720
done a lot of them recently, I've been rejecting a lot or not even responding really to the emails

610
01:00:40,720 --> 01:00:45,120
for requests because just I don't have enough time in the day to even go through my regular email,

611
01:00:45,120 --> 01:00:49,440
let alone all these requests. So I try to fish out ones that I think will be beneficial. We'll get

612
01:00:49,440 --> 01:00:54,320
the word out there, get people understanding how cool it is and how you can tune in and how you can

613
01:00:54,320 --> 01:00:58,480
listen and what you can expect and what you can get. And if that's selling out to the dark side,

614
01:00:58,480 --> 01:01:04,640
my friends, then so be it. I'm proud to be doing it. So this has been the daily source code for

615
01:01:04,720 --> 01:01:14,160
April 16th Saturday in the park. That's a great tune by Chicago. I'll have to play that when I get

616
01:01:14,160 --> 01:01:21,120
back to the cottage. Atimentcurry.com is where you can send your responses, where you can check out my

617
01:01:21,120 --> 01:01:27,520
weblog at www.curry.com. And daily source code.com is where you can pick up the podcast feed to

618
01:01:27,520 --> 01:01:31,680
subscribe to this show when you can always find the latest one to listen to it right from your

619
01:01:31,680 --> 01:01:38,240
computer or the archives. Take care everybody. Next time we speak, I'll be back at the cottage. Bye-bye.