1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,000 Tell us, you're a Charlie, two, five, four. 2 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:11,800 Please save me from people who've been told what to like and then like it. 3 00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:16,160 In my opinion, if you're over six years of age and you're still getting your music 4 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:20,760 from the radio, something is desperately wrong with you. 5 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:27,440 I can only hope that somehow MP3 players and file sharing will destroy FM radio the way 6 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:29,920 they're destroying record companies. 7 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:34,720 And even though the air will probably never be safe to breathe again, maybe it will 8 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:36,920 be safer to listen to it. 9 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:39,920 I don't see rats. 10 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:44,920 I'm sorry, information you don't get higher. 11 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:47,920 I'm Korean. 12 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:52,920 With $16 million worth of airplane strapped to my ass. 13 00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:55,920 In the next generation radio content in my ears. 14 00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:58,920 We don't need no sticking greens in. 15 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:04,920 I like to think I'm flying into the future. 16 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:05,920 And we've hit the hump by friends. 17 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:11,920 Today is Wednesday, October 5, 2005. 18 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:13,920 And good morning from Curry Cottage. 19 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:16,920 It is just barely still morning five minutes before 12. 20 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:20,920 I was up early, really excited when I woke up this morning. 21 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:21,920 I just woke up. 22 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:27,920 I had a whole bunch of ideas and things to talk about, about pot-safe music and music licensing. 23 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:30,920 And I was really excited. 24 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:35,920 I started going through the email and how much crap hit me, which we'll talk about, which 25 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:39,920 maybe has to do with directories in the potter.org and podcastallie.com. 26 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:41,920 So we will be talking about that. 27 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:46,920 Then of course, I had something really important, which was go off to the hair salon. 28 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:49,920 And of course, it's not Sam and Dave. 29 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:50,920 We're a Tony and Guy. 30 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:51,920 Whatever the hell those guys named it. 31 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:52,920 No, I know God too. 32 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:55,920 I go to Patricia's hairdresser and she goes with me. 33 00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:58,920 Since I have to take my glasses off and can't keep control over what's happening. 34 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:00,920 You know, I am so lucky. 35 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:05,920 I am blessed with what I have for 41 years and still a full head hair. 36 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:06,920 Yeah! 37 00:02:09,920 --> 00:02:11,920 Oh, that enough is just to be happy about it, isn't it? 38 00:02:11,920 --> 00:02:13,920 We've got promos galore. 39 00:02:13,920 --> 00:02:15,920 All kinds of new promos, even from some shows 40 00:02:15,920 --> 00:02:16,920 that have been around a while. 41 00:02:16,920 --> 00:02:19,920 It's nice to see that got some new stuff coming. 42 00:02:19,920 --> 00:02:24,920 And actually, there's a lot coming in now, which is great because if we have a slow day, 43 00:02:24,920 --> 00:02:30,920 I'll know I have plenty of stuff, excuse me, to pull from from the archives. 44 00:02:30,920 --> 00:02:34,920 And it's all about getting exposure for more shows, right? 45 00:02:34,920 --> 00:02:35,920 Podsafe music. 46 00:02:35,920 --> 00:02:40,920 I think I've got probably a time to roll out two of those and some great feedback on this 47 00:02:40,920 --> 00:02:41,920 music licensing stuff. 48 00:02:41,920 --> 00:02:45,920 This is really just hitting me. 49 00:02:45,920 --> 00:02:50,920 I turned everything upside down on the world with a hell of a lot better when I did that. 50 00:02:50,920 --> 00:02:55,920 So we will get into that with a little bit of hiccups from the Mac, which we're still working on. 51 00:02:55,920 --> 00:03:01,920 First though, we have a mashup from mashuptown.com, ArtSent this one in. 52 00:03:01,920 --> 00:03:04,920 Romantic is the new fantastic. 53 00:03:04,920 --> 00:03:06,920 The groove blaster. 54 00:03:07,920 --> 00:03:10,920 This one's feel else to me. 55 00:03:10,920 --> 00:03:13,920 I'm so happy with it. 56 00:03:13,920 --> 00:03:18,920 But you can stay if you want to. 57 00:03:18,920 --> 00:03:21,920 Check it out now. 58 00:03:23,750 --> 00:04:06,920 [ Music ] 59 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:24,920 I've been thinking about this in life. 60 00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:28,920 I might just stay here with you tonight. 61 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:49,920 Check it out now. 62 00:04:53,750 --> 00:05:28,750 [ Music ] 63 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:35,920 Ladies and gentlemen, this break is made out of respect for the TV fans, our audience. 64 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:44,920 We're considering to constant interruptions in their programs for messages and sponsors. 65 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:49,920 We want all you TV fans to see the whole and not forget the thrill you get. 66 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:50,920 Come on. 67 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:54,920 How does a girl like you get to be a girl like you? 68 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:56,920 Black girls. 69 00:05:56,920 --> 00:05:59,920 Not like you're not wicked up to no good. 70 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:02,920 Have a kill anyone? 71 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:09,920 Because I bet you could tease a man to death without having to try. 72 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:11,920 You told him to kiss me. 73 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:13,920 Ladies, I know he was going to kiss you. 74 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:15,920 I want to send a boy to do a man's job. 75 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:16,920 Oh, that's for the man. 76 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:18,920 You can tell him the job's filled. 77 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:20,920 Check it out now. 78 00:06:21,250 --> 00:06:56,250 [ Music ] 79 00:06:56,920 --> 00:07:11,920 That's like that's nice. 80 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:15,920 Welcome. 81 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:19,920 This is the podshow podcast network. 82 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:21,920 It's the Davy source code. 83 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:25,920 After this, you'll get Mads Weinstein on a true attention tech. 84 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:28,920 We've got pdubs, half hour friends. 85 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:31,920 We've got podsake music all coming up in the next four or four hours. 86 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:36,920 If you're checking this out on the podcast, well, you are truly wired. 87 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:39,920 So, as I said, this morning I woke up. 88 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:49,920 I was so enthusiastic about stuff that I'm still enthusiastic about about podsake music and podsake music network and music licensing. 89 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:50,920 We're going to get to that. 90 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:59,920 But first, I want you to know that for the past, I think two weeks now, we have been completely consumed at podshow. 91 00:07:59,920 --> 00:08:05,920 Part of it when I was still in San Francisco and part of it this week with listings in our directories. 92 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:12,920 Now, just so you know, podshow owns and operates two domains, and I'm saying this very specifically domains. 93 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:17,920 We have indiepodder.org, formerly known as iPodder.org. 94 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:19,920 We have podcastalley.com. 95 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:26,920 Two directories where you can pretty much submit your podcast and have it listed. 96 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:33,920 Now, there's very distinct differences between these two domains and what they do and what their function is. 97 00:08:33,920 --> 00:08:36,920 Let me start with indiepodder.org first. 98 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:43,920 This started as a community resource back in the early days before there was actually a word pod casting. 99 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:47,920 And it's a brilliant system, brilliant. 100 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:52,920 And I can easily say that because I'm just going to sit down for a second for this one. 101 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:55,920 I love the stool, I still have here. 102 00:08:55,920 --> 00:09:02,920 The main reason it's brilliant is because it's architected as an open distributed directory based on OPML. 103 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:07,920 Huge props to Dave Winner for his vision of how this works. 104 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:10,920 And boy, I'd actually love to hear him weigh in on this. 105 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:13,920 Although I think that he's going to agree with me. 106 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:16,920 Wouldn't that be a great. 107 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:25,920 The nature of a distributed directory means that indiepodder.org really is no more than one page if you. 108 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:26,920 It's not a database. 109 00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:31,920 There's no database sitting behind that it's one page which is an HTML rendering of an OPML. 110 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:36,920 That means that there's a bunch of links in that OPML file, which is just a format. 111 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:40,920 So it's just a file, see it as a regular file with a bunch of links in it. 112 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:49,920 And those links point to other OPML files hosted on other servers by other people, which are maintained by those people. 113 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:56,920 Now what's beautiful about this is it's actually a very democratic system because although indiepodder.org, 114 00:09:56,920 --> 00:10:02,920 the main page there and the top level of directory may be seen as the all encompassing top level. 115 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:09,920 It's actually quite cool because you could take the entire file we make that available for anyone. 116 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:18,920 Apple did that and other companies and many other directories, of course, have pre-populated their directories with that data. 117 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:21,920 And we make no claims about that. 118 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:22,920 Go ahead and grab it. 119 00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:23,920 There's a link right there. 120 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:25,920 We explain very clearly how it can be done. 121 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:28,920 But just to reiterate. 122 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:29,920 Sensei. 123 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:37,920 Just to reiterate, there's no database, there's no storing of any links other than the links to these other directory nodes. 124 00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:41,920 Now what the system does do and this does add to some confusion. 125 00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:44,920 We're going to work on that is it renders. 126 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:47,920 So if you say I want to look at the automotive category, you click on that link. 127 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:53,920 What the system is actually doing is saying, okay, let me go pull in that OPML file from another server. 128 00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:58,920 And I'm going to render that through our rendering engine to turn it into an HTML representation, 129 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:04,920 which is why you basically get just a bunch of links to RSS feeds, which is many of said is, you know, 130 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:06,920 that's not the way to do a directory. 131 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:11,920 Well, it in fact is the way to do a directory because it is a complete resource. 132 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:13,920 It's just a resource. 133 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:14,920 Do you hear that? 134 00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:15,920 That's my blackberry. 135 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:21,920 That's the one thing I do not like about the blackberry is it provides a lot of interference on the equipment here. 136 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:23,920 The MDA does not do that. 137 00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:29,920 So I have to kind of find the right spot so I can still read my show prep on it and not have that sound crappy. 138 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:39,920 Anyway, so we are quite happy to point to anyone who wants, that's why you see it's kind of funny. 139 00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:43,920 People say, well, you've got way too many top level links there. 140 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:48,920 When someone says they have a new category, we bought it in. 141 00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:51,920 Well, I'm happy to put anything in the top category. 142 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:55,920 If there isn't a category that it already fits in, I'm happy to put it there. 143 00:11:55,920 --> 00:11:58,920 So for instance, we have a politics node right now. 144 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:04,920 If someone decided they wanted to do an alternative politics node and was different from the one we already have, 145 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:06,920 they would probably get a top level listing for me. 146 00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:11,920 But again, it's just a link to whatever they're linking to. 147 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:13,920 So very much like a weblog. 148 00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:18,920 In fact, it's kind of the two different sides of the same coin in a way. 149 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:22,920 Where I have a weblog and I can point to someone's website, 150 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:25,920 but I'm not really responsible for everything they link to. 151 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:27,920 And nor do I have the time to go and read everything. 152 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:31,920 You would presume that if God damn that really pisses me off. 153 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:32,920 There we go. 154 00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:36,920 You would presume that no one has time to go and read through everything. 155 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:41,920 Maybe I would disagree and I could perhaps remove a link. 156 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:46,920 But the whole kind of idea of the links on the web is that a link is in place and you hope it stays. 157 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:49,920 And we don't want a link rot and we want it to kind of be in place. 158 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:53,920 So it's very, very critical to understand. 159 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:57,920 Crucial really that any potter.org is nothing. 160 00:12:57,920 --> 00:12:58,920 There's no not a database. 161 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:02,920 It is just a list of links to other lists of links. 162 00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:05,920 That is the nature of the open directory. 163 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:08,920 By the way, anyone maintaining a node can also. 164 00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:11,920 And that's not only can they. 165 00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:14,920 I hope they do and many do such as the music category. 166 00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:17,920 There's one music maintainer of the category. 167 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:24,920 And that person has linked in other opium nodes to what I call sub directory. 168 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:29,920 So there's someone is maintaining under the music category. 169 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:32,920 Different like the rock music category. 170 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:34,920 And that's actually that can be someone else. 171 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:36,920 And it all kind of flows together. 172 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:37,920 And it's a different system. 173 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:45,920 It is, in my opinion, the only way an open directory can work because in this case we have over a hundred volunteers. 174 00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:52,920 All of them, you know, so passionate about what they do that they often even hand code these opium 175 00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:56,920 files in like note pad, you know, just to just to get it up and running. 176 00:13:56,920 --> 00:13:59,920 And of course, that also means that we sometimes have breakage, you know, from day to day. 177 00:13:59,920 --> 00:14:03,920 You'll see that maybe a node will drop out because someone's web server one away. 178 00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:07,920 And we usually wait and see if it comes back. 179 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:12,920 And from time to time, someone will say, hey, this node hasn't been maintained for six months. 180 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:13,920 I'd like to take over the node. 181 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:14,920 I think they can do a better job. 182 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:18,920 Then I'll have an email conversation with the original maintainer of the node. 183 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:20,920 Most of the times the maintainer of the nodes says, oh, shit. 184 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:23,920 I didn't even know that, you know, I've been updating somewhere else. 185 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:27,920 And I screwed up and they fixed it and everything kind of seems to cope with Saturday. 186 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:31,920 Because the people who usually want to maintain a node are the ones who haven't been able to get listed. 187 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:38,920 By the way, to get listed in a node on indie potter, you communicate directly with through an email or submission link. 188 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:41,920 Actually, you communicate directly with that node manager. 189 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:50,920 So the way the only way that works is that the node managers are responsible for what they link to. 190 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:54,920 Okay, that said, let's look at podcastiley.com. 191 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:57,920 The name itself says what it is. 192 00:14:57,920 --> 00:14:59,920 It's the alley behind podcasting. 193 00:14:59,920 --> 00:15:01,920 It's kind of the back end. 194 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:08,920 It's where we figure where we built, where I didn't, where Chris McIntyre built a community around podcasters. 195 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:13,920 And the community focus on a number of different things. 196 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:20,920 You know, primarily how to create shows, make shows, produce shows, create feeds. 197 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:29,920 I mean, there's a lot of stuff that really the community has created in that space at podcastiley.com. 198 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:35,920 Now, podcastiley.com does have a database and it has an automatic submission. 199 00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:39,920 So you send it into one place and it basically just all goes in. 200 00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:43,920 It's verified to see if your feed is valid and that's about it. 201 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:49,920 So what is the issue at hand? 202 00:15:49,920 --> 00:16:02,920 The issue at hand is that a couple of podcasts have popped up into these directories in the past couple of weeks that the majority of people find offensive. 203 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:12,920 One is a hate podcast and one is a podcast apparently about Peter Felia. 204 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:21,920 And these both of these podcasts were listed in both directories in indie potter.org. 205 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:25,920 It was listed in a node maintained by a separate node manager. 206 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:30,920 And I can't speak for the new issue that is popped up because I haven't been able to find it in any of the nodes yet. 207 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:33,920 Nor is anyone pointed out to me. 208 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:38,920 It did, by the way, pop up automatically on the homepage of indie potter.org. 209 00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:41,920 Both of these podcasts were submitted to podcastiley. 210 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:44,920 Now, as you can understand, again, it's an automatic submission. 211 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:51,920 There's sometimes there's a hundred to six or seven hundred new podcasts coming out in a day or in a span of a couple days. 212 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:59,920 And there is no human intervention there, which I think places a much bigger responsibility on the community. 213 00:16:59,920 --> 00:17:05,920 And primarily the people who run podcastiley.com, which is Podshow. 214 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:15,920 And Chris McIntyre as the spiritual leader of that community and of that website. 215 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:30,920 So the question that has a risen is, should every single podcast be listed in these directories regardless of what the content of the podcast is? 216 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:40,920 This is not the official Podshow statement, but I was so emotional about the conversations that have been going on on podcastiley. 217 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:45,920 Because it's become very, actually hateful and very aggressive. 218 00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:53,920 The way people are attacking Chris, myself, Podshow, other members of the community about this issue. 219 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:58,920 I think the conversation is just no longer a grown-up conversation. 220 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:08,920 Let me state right up front that our organization, which is its own little community, a very young and growing community, because we're all just kind of getting to know each other. 221 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:14,920 We've only been, you know, a company for, for really a few weeks and, you know, new people coming on every single day. 222 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:17,920 We are very diverse group. 223 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:38,920 And I think it intuitively, you can probably figure out that not a single person in our organization would endorse any type of hate or any, any crime or violence or anything that would potentially hurt children. 224 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:40,920 I mean, that's obvious. 225 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:46,920 This is not, I repeat, this is not a free speech issue. I really thought about this. 226 00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:51,920 Free speech means the right for someone to say whatever they want to say. 227 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:59,920 That doesn't necessarily mean that we have to promote that or link to it or highlight it or list it. 228 00:18:59,920 --> 00:19:01,920 I'll take it one step further. 229 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:12,920 Since the podcast Ali.com community is owned and operated by all of us, not just Adam Curry and Ron Bloom or Chris McIntyre, but, you know, it's pod show. 230 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:19,920 And it's, and that takes significant resources. It takes people and takes money and, you know, there's, there's a, a lot that goes into it. 231 00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:28,920 Chris actually said it very, very, very suit yesterday. He feels that anything on podcast Ali.com basically reflects what we are as people and I totally agree. 232 00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:36,920 Because we do maintain the database. We do maintain what is being linked to, we do maintain the listings. 233 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:43,920 Indiepoter.org, that homepage, that, that, that top level listing, that reflects who we are as people. 234 00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:48,920 The linking, and this is really, really, really important that you understand this. 235 00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:55,920 The linking to other OPML files, which, in fact, are a little mini directories. 236 00:19:55,920 --> 00:20:00,920 We cannot be responsible for what other people put in their OPML files. 237 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:05,920 We can't tell a node manager to put something in or take something out. 238 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:10,920 So, and again, we're going to write this down and come out with an official statement. 239 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:24,920 And, you know, words are always turned around and I'm not always the best communicator, particularly not when I'm emotional, but I want you to know that the only way to solve this is to put our foot down and say that we have the right. 240 00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:32,920 We reserve the right to not list a podcast if we feel we don't have to or want to. 241 00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:35,920 See, that already didn't come out the way I wanted to sound. 242 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:45,920 But we reserve the right to not list anything on podcastally.com and on the homepage, the top level of the indiepoter.org directory. 243 00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:52,920 In fact, the, one of the offensive podcasts through automatic script showed up on the homepage of indiepoter.org. 244 00:20:52,920 --> 00:21:04,920 And I removed it because that is my space. That is the space that I control and that is owned by pod show and the community of people who do not want anything poorly to reflect upon us. 245 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:10,920 Anything else in indiepoter.org should be taken up with the maintainer of that node. 246 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:15,920 And by the way, we, of course, do reserve the right to drop a node or place it with something else. 247 00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:21,920 But that's where we have to be really, really careful, my friends. 248 00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:29,920 The way we're going to release our policy, if you will, will be exactly that. 249 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:38,920 If you have an issue with a link on an independently hosted and maintained node, you'll have to take it up with that node manager. 250 00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:47,920 We are only linking to nodes. If nodes are properly maintained, that's all we care about, that the links work. 251 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:56,920 And that they're updated fresh and that they're, you know, that they're maintained basically and people can get their stuff listed in it. 252 00:21:56,920 --> 00:22:05,920 So I think you will see that the offensive quote unquote offensive podcasts will be removed from podcast alley. 253 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:11,920 At the same time, we will also, I think, be looking at members of the community who are offensive. 254 00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:18,920 And we might have to remove them because if this has this discussion or what people are trying to call discussion, 255 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:22,920 podcast alley.com is not the place for it. 256 00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:30,920 Because we're trying to create a positive community that works towards podcasting, creating better podcast. 257 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:35,920 We don't, I don't think it's the right forum for a huge free speech discussion because it's inappropriate. 258 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:41,920 Free speech would mean that we tell these podcasters that they can't do a podcast. 259 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:50,920 Okay? So be very, very, I want to be as clear as possible about the distinction that anything we own, 260 00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:54,920 we reserve the right to remove things and we will. 261 00:22:54,920 --> 00:23:00,920 And I think the reasons will be clear, but we don't have to even give a reason if we don't want to. 262 00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:09,920 What I'm so emotional about, though, is the tactics that have been played out in this without even any consideration for time, 263 00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:14,920 for thought, for the resources, for the consequences that go into this. 264 00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:25,920 And people are blackmailing us, people are sending emails with half truths and sometimes lies to mainstream media to try and quote, 265 00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:29,920 quote, stir the shit up or call us out. 266 00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:35,920 You know, it's a completely wrong way to go about it. It is so incredibly disappointing. 267 00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:39,920 Anyway, how, what time are we now? 268 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:42,920 God damn, never gonna make this show. 269 00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:48,920 So today at the California hasn't broken up yet, it'll be a few more hours yet. 270 00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:53,920 We're going to publish our policies. You'll see that they'll look very much like Google. 271 00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:57,920 And by the way, you know, threats were made to our investors. 272 00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:03,920 They're very aware have dealt with this before have been giving us some excellent advice on the topic. 273 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:06,920 And we're trying to be as mature as possible about this. 274 00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:18,920 So we can move on and get on with creating great podcasts, better podcasting and a thriving community that does not yell, shout, and threaten each other. 275 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:30,920 Okay, now for some fun stuff. 276 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:35,920 Hi, this is Apocalypse Dahl. I'd like to tell you about my podcast novel, Brace for Impact. 277 00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:38,920 This novel follows the story of Apocalypse Dahl. 278 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:41,920 Hey, that's me. And Mick Aloha, my arch enemy. 279 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:45,920 As we join forces to journey across the country for a common cause. 280 00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:53,920 Along the way, win counter truckers, pro wrestlers, robots, ghosts, sex craved middle-aged Japanese women. 281 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:58,920 In saying farmers, a plot to destroy the internet and midget cowboys. 282 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:04,920 New episodes come out every Tuesday. You can check out the website at www.freepodcastnomel.com 283 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:09,920 or do a search for brace for impact in the directories. Thanks a lot. 284 00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:16,920 Hot show. Content that will make you squeeze the dog and burp your mother. 285 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:18,920 Want to hear something different? 286 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:21,920 Want to hear how South Africans are doing it? 287 00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:22,920 Well, I'm Glenn. 288 00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:25,920 And I'm Bridget. 289 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:27,920 A Zedershow. 290 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:30,920 Come and experience Cape Town, South Africa. 291 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:32,920 We talk about anything. 292 00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:37,920 But not for cons. It's such an expressive language. 293 00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:39,920 But in Africa, you can't just say four. 294 00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:41,920 Oh, close. Come on, South Africa. 295 00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:43,920 And we talk to interesting people. 296 00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:48,920 Going to break the landscape record for the fastest blind driver. 297 00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:52,920 All I'm going to find is close to possible in the end of the moment now. 298 00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:55,920 So come and join the Zee Cape Townian. 299 00:25:55,920 --> 00:26:01,920 To subscribe, search for the Zedershow and iTunes or go to www.TheZedershow.Zedet.net. 300 00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:09,920 And podcasting all's live and I'm curry. 301 00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:12,920 My pod.com. 302 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:17,920 And James. 303 00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:21,920 Yes, we have a big interview on Friday show at madpot.com. 304 00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:22,920 Barry Manolo. 305 00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:25,920 That's right. Barry Manolo and madpot. 306 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:28,920 And I floated down, made it into a ballad. 307 00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:30,920 That's what he was hearing. 308 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:35,320 Hearing me doing it is a ballad and it was the first number one song for me and for Arespa. 309 00:26:40,120 --> 00:26:41,160 Oh, my singing mandi. 310 00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:42,120 Mabpa. 311 00:26:42,120 --> 00:26:43,120 Doc Call. 312 00:26:43,120 --> 00:26:44,120 Sing mandi. 313 00:26:44,120 --> 00:26:45,120 There you go. 314 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:46,720 The ultimate mannel L. 315 00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:49,120 And an extremely rare interview. 316 00:26:49,120 --> 00:26:51,520 This is only one of six and ten years. 317 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:52,120 Mannel L. 318 00:26:52,120 --> 00:26:53,720 Speaks with Shadow Steel. 319 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:57,320 Regarding his hits, entertainment career and personal life. 320 00:26:57,320 --> 00:26:58,440 Mabpa. 321 00:26:58,440 --> 00:26:59,320 Doc Call. 322 00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:00,320 Hi. 323 00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:04,320 This is Shadow Steel and you're listening to your global audio connection, madpod.com. 324 00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:06,320 Doc Call. 325 00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:07,320 Yeah. 326 00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:09,320 Shadow Steel or whatever. 327 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:10,320 Baga. 328 00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:12,320 That's a district or trucker name. 329 00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:15,320 I think there are 25 Shadow Steel's running around the country right now. 330 00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:16,320 But it sounds interesting. 331 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:17,320 I definitely want to hear the Barry. 332 00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:20,320 I like Barry Manelow's stuff. 333 00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:24,320 Let me think what I'm going to do now because I don't think I'm going to happen. 334 00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:28,320 I mean, I'm going to remove the track I was going to play here. 335 00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:32,320 I'll play that tomorrow so we can get into the music licensing conversation. 336 00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:33,320 Okay. 337 00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:36,320 Where to start? 338 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:43,320 I think the easiest and most logical place to start is to talk about, oh actually. 339 00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:44,320 Yeah. 340 00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:48,320 It's to talk about what music licensing is, how it came about. 341 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:51,320 And I'm a semi-professional in this area. 342 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:52,320 I'm certainly not a lawyer. 343 00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:54,320 Certainly not a music lawyer. 344 00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:57,320 But I have dealt with the material long enough to get the conversation. 345 00:27:57,320 --> 00:28:00,320 Going a little bit more. 346 00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:07,320 And this is purely about podcasting and radio and streaming and the digital Millennium Copyright Act. 347 00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:20,320 So historically radio stations have been able to play records on the radio at no cost other than a contribution to Ask Cap BMI. 348 00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:24,320 And if you're in a different country like the Netherlands, it's Buma Stemera. 349 00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:29,320 If you're in England, it's the PMRS, I think it is. 350 00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:33,320 These are all territorial based organizations. 351 00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:35,320 And a little fuzzy on this. 352 00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:43,320 But I believe they have acquired the right from the government to be the collection agency for authors, composers. 353 00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:48,320 And there are actually two separate organizations that I think are in some places. 354 00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:53,320 Well, there are separate organizations that actually got and collect money for the producer. 355 00:28:53,320 --> 00:29:00,320 Of a song as well as for the vocalist of a song. 356 00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:01,320 Believe it or not. 357 00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:03,320 I know this because Patricia gets them. 358 00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:05,320 It's called the Sainat in Europe. 359 00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:09,320 And they actually got and get money for the for the vocalist, even if they haven't written the song. 360 00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:14,320 So the concept behind this is that the record companies who own the actual product. 361 00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:15,320 Okay. 362 00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:20,320 So the product of a song, which is it's the disc that it comes on. 363 00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:23,320 It's the complete, it we call it the master. 364 00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:29,320 You know, basically in 99.9 cases when you have a record deal. 365 00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:31,320 The record company owns the master. 366 00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:36,320 That means they own whatever happens with that physical product and how it is used. 367 00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:40,320 Traditionally, radio's record companies have waived any fee. 368 00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:42,320 I've said, go ahead radio stations. 369 00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:49,320 You can use this because it promotes our product and it helps us in our entire marketing campaign to sell the physical product. 370 00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:53,320 So that's a great hand off and an up until streaming, which I get to in a second. 371 00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:57,320 That was a very cut and, you know, very cut and straight cut deal. 372 00:29:57,320 --> 00:29:59,320 Everyone understood it. 373 00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:05,320 Now, of course, radio stations who play music and music is not just, you know, the number one hit of the week, 374 00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:12,320 but it can also be a filler that you use or some background music during an interview or all any type of music. 375 00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:22,320 Just as with clubs, restaurants, bars, elevators, concerts, anywhere that the music is performed. 376 00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:23,320 Okay. 377 00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:25,320 And by performance, I also mean broadcast. 378 00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:29,320 So it is, it's not that you're just putting a record on and playing it for your friends. 379 00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:31,320 And there's, there's actually some legal language about that. 380 00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:33,320 What constitutes the real performance. 381 00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:39,320 In fact, you've probably seen that there's all kinds of disclaimers that if you buy a direct TV, 382 00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:43,320 satellite dish and you have all your buddies come over and you, if you were to charge money at the door, 383 00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:48,320 if you just let anyone in and a hundred people watching the game, you could get a knock at the door, 384 00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:51,320 and they could start charging you money for that. 385 00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:52,320 But think about it. 386 00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:57,320 You know, if you're in a commercial venture, such as Radio Station, you're using this art, 387 00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:01,320 which, of course, the record companies aren't getting compensated for directly, 388 00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:07,320 but the people who created the song, they need to be compensated. 389 00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:12,320 They're partially compensated through sales, and there's a whole division key of that, 390 00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:16,320 who gets what, and that all depends on, you know, the publishing rights, 391 00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:21,320 and, you know, that's probably a little bit too complicated to go into in depth here. 392 00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:25,320 But that's why there are these organizations, and they've been around for a long time, 393 00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:29,320 like BMI and like ASCAP and PMRS and Bumush Damara. 394 00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:36,320 And their job is to cut deals with all of these places where the music is used in a commercial, 395 00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:38,320 and a commercial venture. 396 00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:43,320 So a radio station will typically pay a percentage of revenue, 397 00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:47,320 I think it's, they based it on audience size and revenue, 398 00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:49,320 but it's all negotiation is what it is. 399 00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:54,320 In fact, we did a trade show recently, that recently, when I was still back in, 400 00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:59,320 at the Curry Castle, for Grandmaster View screens, we did a trade show, 401 00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:04,320 and a guy from the local ASCAP BMI authorities came by and said, 402 00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:07,320 hey, you're playing music here, do you have a license? 403 00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:08,320 And we said, no, we don't. 404 00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:12,320 We thought that was included with the stand and, you know, with our booth. 405 00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:15,320 No, sorry, you got to pay, and you have to pay right now, 406 00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:17,320 or we'll send you, we'll find you. 407 00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:22,320 And it wasn't much, you know, they based upon the size of the booth, 408 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:24,320 and with the traffic that was going by the booth, you know, 409 00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:29,320 it's all kind of fuzzy logic and math, but it's, you know, it's fair. 410 00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:32,320 We're using music to attract people into buy our products. 411 00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:36,320 I mean, maybe we'll pay like 50 bucks or something per day, 412 00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:38,320 for the week that we were there. 413 00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:40,320 So, you know, it's, it's, it's fair. 414 00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:42,320 It just makes sense. 415 00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:50,320 So, taking into consideration that history will repeat itself, 416 00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:55,320 I think we need to do something similar for the pod safe music scene, 417 00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:58,320 and particularly through the pod safe music network. 418 00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:04,320 Because often, even though often the, 419 00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:08,320 the creator of the song of the product that you can either buy, 420 00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:12,320 yeah, a protract download, or that you can buy as a physical CD, 421 00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:17,320 even though they may also be the songwriter and composer at the end of the day, 422 00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:20,320 when someone is making money, and I've already heard this conversation crop up, 423 00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:23,320 you know, if I'm making money through doing the daily source code, 424 00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:25,320 which I'm not making directly yet, but we will eventually, 425 00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:28,320 there's going to be some kind of sponsorships and advertising, 426 00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:31,320 or so there's going to be some monetization. 427 00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:36,320 And if I'm using music to do that, then the people who created that music 428 00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:40,320 should be fairly compensated, and the people who are selling the product of that music 429 00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:43,320 will be compensated if it's good enough, and it catches on, 430 00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:46,320 and people go and buy the product. 431 00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:51,320 So, I do believe that we have to come up with something for the pod safe music 432 00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:59,320 authors, composers, producers, and let's just say performers, okay? 433 00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:04,320 And that's a huge job to set that up, but it's really going to be worth it. 434 00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:07,320 Let me just tell you how they fixed that with streaming, 435 00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:10,320 because when streaming came out in the late 90s, 436 00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:15,320 radio stations, essentially radio stations in the beginning, 437 00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:18,320 were a simultaneous feeding of their radio station, 438 00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:20,320 so you could pick it up anywhere in the world. 439 00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:26,320 Of course, you were tied to your computer, so it didn't have all the benefits of pod casting. 440 00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:31,320 But this also adheres to the satellite radio, 441 00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:36,320 that all falls under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. 442 00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:39,320 And if you read this act outside of the, you know, 443 00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:42,320 all the stuff about cracking encryption, et cetera, 444 00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:45,320 it was a freaking negotiation. 445 00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:48,320 And it literally says things like, 446 00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:53,320 you can't play a song by the same artist back to back, 447 00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:56,320 because, of course, they're afraid that you'll eventually, you know, 448 00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:59,320 that you could play all 12 of a CDs tracks, 449 00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:02,320 and someone could record that, and then they would effectively have the CD. 450 00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:05,320 It was really a negotiation with people, 451 00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:07,320 with big radio stations who were into streaming, 452 00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:14,320 as well as the then still infant and not even open for business satellite radio operators. 453 00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:19,320 So none of this really applies to pod casting 454 00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:21,320 when it comes to the traditional system, 455 00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:25,320 which means licensed music, which belongs to the RIA, 456 00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:27,320 and of course, the songs themselves, 457 00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:31,320 which belong to the authors, composers, producers, 458 00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:34,320 and performers on the track. 459 00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:41,320 So that's the problem with playing songs that aren't pod safe in your podcast. 460 00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:46,320 The problem is that there is a collection agency, 461 00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:49,320 and their mission in life is to go out and collect money 462 00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:53,320 if you're using the works, 463 00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:57,320 not the physical product, but the works of these artists. 464 00:35:57,320 --> 00:36:04,320 Again, the composer, the writer, the producer, and the performers. 465 00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:07,320 If you're using those works in a commercial venture, 466 00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:09,320 and of course, what's commercial is very fuzzy, 467 00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:12,320 but at the end of the day, if you're making money using that product, 468 00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:14,320 they'll come and collect. 469 00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:19,320 So that's why you see ASCAD BMI coming out with licenses for podcasters. 470 00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:22,320 Because they're saying, hey, this is very clearly defined. 471 00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:25,320 If you have permission to use the master to use the product, 472 00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:29,320 then all we want is we want to fairly compensate these other guys over here. 473 00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:31,320 Totally agree with it. 474 00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:34,320 Of course, the way they've set that up, 475 00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:39,320 the size of the fee, the reporting you have to do, 476 00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:44,320 is nowhere near possible for any podcast. 477 00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:46,320 I can't even do my own frickin' show notes myself. 478 00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:50,320 Let alone do all the work on figuring out. 479 00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:54,320 And we used to do this at the big radio stations before it was all automated. 480 00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:59,320 You have to write down, title the song, the artist, the label it's on, 481 00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:02,320 and then on the record is always stated who's the composer, 482 00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:06,320 and who is the author, producer, 483 00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:09,320 and performers don't apply, 484 00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:15,320 and those rights start to be collected much later on. 485 00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:20,320 So while we could really focus on getting a license with ASCAD BMI, 486 00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:23,320 which is kind of what I was talking about the other day, 487 00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:27,320 I think maybe we should turn the tables and turn it around. 488 00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:31,320 And before I get to that, I want to play for you, 489 00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:34,320 kind of a, it's a promo, but it's kind of a joke, 490 00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:38,320 because, and by the way, it's completely not safe for children's ears. 491 00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:43,320 These guys totally understand the vibe of the record companies, 492 00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:47,320 the RIA, because they would probably sound a lot like this 493 00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:51,320 if they were trying to deal with us podcasters. 494 00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:56,320 We've been checking out this pod safe music network a year. 495 00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:59,320 We like what we see. You know what I mean? 496 00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:01,320 Look, we've got a deal for it. 497 00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:05,320 I think it's going to work out pretty good for all of us. 498 00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:07,320 We really see it, baby. 499 00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:08,320 What the fuck? 500 00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:10,320 Who else is fucking Frenchy in here? 501 00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:11,320 I don't know. 502 00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:12,320 What the fuck? 503 00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:14,320 Joey, take care of the fucking Frenchy for me, would you? 504 00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:15,320 I got it. 505 00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:16,320 Forget about it. 506 00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:22,320 Where the fuck was I before that French fuck in a ruptuous? 507 00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:26,320 Look, we don't let just anyone into the family. 508 00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:29,320 I think it's about time we make an exception. 509 00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:31,320 See, it's a thing. 510 00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:33,320 We got ourselves a business back into Troy. 511 00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:36,320 Go ahead, boat and sing music studios. 512 00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:39,320 Yeah, yeah. We pretty much run the whole town down there. 513 00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:41,320 Joey, shut the fuck up. 514 00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:44,320 Look, we got some talented people recording there. 515 00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:47,320 We like to see if we can make a deal with you. 516 00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:49,320 Go ahead. 517 00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:51,320 You can take a head of that. 518 00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:55,320 Look, we'll get you some good music for your pod safe music network. 519 00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:59,320 And in return, you just tell them where you got it. 520 00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:01,320 It's as simple as that. 521 00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:03,320 What do you think? 522 00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:06,320 Well, first of all, we got the really good shit. 523 00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:10,320 I mean, all this music, top notch. 524 00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:13,320 And second of all, it's a really good fun. 525 00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:14,320 You know what I mean? 526 00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:16,320 The shit rocks. 527 00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:17,320 Forget about it. 528 00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:19,320 Joey, shut the fuck up. 529 00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:21,320 So, what do you think, Adam? 530 00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:23,320 We got ourselves a deal. 531 00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:27,320 Oh, man. 532 00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:29,320 Piece of crap. 533 00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:31,320 I think that was the end of it. 534 00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:33,320 So you kind of get the gist there, right? 535 00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:36,320 So he was my thought. 536 00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:40,320 And by the way, I clearly like to play mashups, 537 00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:42,320 and that's an issue. 538 00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:44,320 And I'd like to pay for that. 539 00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:49,320 And if I want to, and if we can come to terms with AskCADBMI, 540 00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:51,320 or PMRS, or whoever it is, 541 00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:54,320 we'll gladly do that if there's money coming in, of course. 542 00:39:54,320 --> 00:40:00,320 You know, the people who created that work deserve to deserve to have that. 543 00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:05,320 By the way, you know, this is the entire reason why copyrights are extended, 544 00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:07,320 and are extended primarily by artists. 545 00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:08,320 Members Sonny Bono did that. 546 00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:11,320 And Cliff Richard is bitching and moaning over here, 547 00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:13,320 because most of his copyrights are about to expire, 548 00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:16,320 which means basically, you know, he won't get any money 549 00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:18,320 for what he created. 550 00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:21,320 And you know, so that's, I shouldn't even brought that up. 551 00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:23,320 That's a whole different conversation about expiration 552 00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:24,320 of copyrights. 553 00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:27,320 But what we can do here. 554 00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:28,320 Here's what we can do. 555 00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:29,320 Podsafe Music has happened. 556 00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:30,320 There's no doubt about it. 557 00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:32,320 I get emails all the time from people who say, 558 00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:35,320 Dude, I heard, I heard Brother Love on this other podcast, 559 00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:37,320 and I recognized it just like it was a, 560 00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:39,320 you know, a regular radio station 561 00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:41,320 that I'd heard it somewhere else in a, 562 00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:42,320 and it felt like I hit to me, 563 00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:44,320 and I was loving it and singing along, 564 00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:45,320 because it's working. 565 00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:48,320 You know, we are promoting these artists. 566 00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:50,320 It's really, really working. 567 00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:56,320 So I think that I would like to investigate the Podsafe Music network, 568 00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:58,320 being a clearinghouse, 569 00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:02,320 not for the actual product again, 570 00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:04,320 not for the, for the track that's being sold. 571 00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:05,320 If that's played on your podcast, 572 00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:07,320 I feel that that should be, you know, 573 00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:08,320 that's a wash, you know, 574 00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:10,320 it's a promotion for the product, 575 00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:13,320 but we are using the works by these talented artists, 576 00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:15,320 mostly talented artists. 577 00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:17,320 And if you're monetizing, 578 00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:18,320 if you're making money, 579 00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:19,320 then you should, 580 00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:21,320 these people should be compensated. 581 00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:23,320 So I think there's a way to do that 582 00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:26,320 and have the Podsafe Music network 583 00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:28,320 be a clearinghouse for that. 584 00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:31,320 And it will be so cool because it's already happening now 585 00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:33,320 where radio stations want to play 586 00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:35,320 some of this Podsafe Music. 587 00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:37,320 Well, it's not interesting. 588 00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:39,320 You have to cut a deal with the podcasters, 589 00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:42,320 music association or whatever the hell we're going to call it. 590 00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:44,320 Well, the Podsafe Music network 591 00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:46,320 writes clearances. 592 00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:48,320 Yeah, we'll use all the big words those guys use. 593 00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:50,320 So you have to clear it through us. 594 00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:51,320 And guess what? 595 00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:52,320 If you played on terrestrial radio, 596 00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:53,320 you have a different rate, 597 00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:56,320 and it's going to be much higher than on podcasts. 598 00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:58,320 If you want to use it with your film, 599 00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:00,320 then you also have to come to the clearinghouse. 600 00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:04,320 I would love nothing more than to represent all these artists. 601 00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:06,320 And again, not just the author and composer, 602 00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:08,320 but the producer and the performers of the work, 603 00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:11,320 so that when someone uses their work, 604 00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:13,320 whether they re-record it, 605 00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:15,320 it doesn't make any difference. 606 00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:19,320 If it's being used in a commercial venture through a performance, 607 00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:22,320 then I think that should be compensated, 608 00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:24,320 and I think we can do it. 609 00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:28,320 In fact, I got an audio feedback from Adrian Pegg here in the UK, 610 00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:30,320 who said something very similar. 611 00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:31,320 Listen to what he has to say. 612 00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:32,320 I don't know if this is Adrian Pegg. 613 00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:36,320 I was one of the four organises of the recent Podcastcon UK conference. 614 00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:38,320 I was interested to hear about your attempts 615 00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:41,320 to solve the music licensing issues in Podcasting. 616 00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:42,320 I mean, I actually think that Podcast 617 00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:45,320 have found a real niche anyway with indie music 618 00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:47,320 and unlicensed side music, 619 00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:50,320 because that is something that the major broadcast 620 00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:53,320 this content wouldn't want to do anyway. 621 00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:57,320 And it really gives Podcast something different. 622 00:42:57,320 --> 00:43:00,320 But I can see why it would be nice to have 623 00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:04,320 a blanket license of some sort to play a license music 624 00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:05,320 or sign music. 625 00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:09,320 And I think the approach of going to the approach of avoiding 626 00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:14,320 the mechanical rights side of things initially is a good one. 627 00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:17,320 But I do think you could think about taking it 628 00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:19,320 at one step further. 629 00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:23,320 Imagine that you could get the odd small record label signed up 630 00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:25,320 with mechanical rights, 631 00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:29,320 and you were actually acting as a collecting agency yourself. 632 00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:32,320 Pod shows acting as a collecting agency. 633 00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:36,320 You could actually bypass the whole process. 634 00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:38,320 I know it would be a lot to set up, 635 00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:41,320 and it would have to really depend 636 00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:44,320 I suppose on there being significant revenues 637 00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:45,320 to share out. 638 00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:47,320 So that might be a little way off. 639 00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:48,320 But in the end, you know, 640 00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:51,320 what we need really is a global system in any case. 641 00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:54,320 I mean, one of the problems that I have 642 00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:56,320 with things you've been talking about 643 00:43:56,320 --> 00:44:01,320 is that they are effectively confined to the US. 644 00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:04,320 Pod is, for example, in this country, 645 00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:07,320 it would be the PRS, the Performing Rights Society, 646 00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:10,320 that you would need to be discussing with. 647 00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:13,320 And in fact, as I understand it, 648 00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:16,320 these things are territorial based, 649 00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:19,320 not about where the show is hosted 650 00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:21,320 or effectively broadcast from. 651 00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:23,320 So in fact, you know, 652 00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:25,320 your discussions with ASCAP BMI 653 00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:27,320 wouldn't even apply to your own show 654 00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:30,320 because you obviously produce that show 655 00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:32,320 for the most part in the UK. 656 00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:35,320 Or even if you did a territorial blanket agreement 657 00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:38,320 with ASCAP BMI, 658 00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:40,320 you would actually be excluded from it. 659 00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:44,320 So what we need really is some kind of global system 660 00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:46,320 a global blanket license, 661 00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:48,320 so we don't have to worry about territories. 662 00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:51,320 And that's why I think it might be worth 663 00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:55,320 podger thinking about something slightly further reaching 664 00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:58,320 than a deal with ASCAP BMI. 665 00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:00,320 And if that going back to the artists themselves 666 00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:02,320 and doing a deal, setting up a separate 667 00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:04,320 collecting agency even. 668 00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:06,320 And the other thing I wanted to say 669 00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:09,320 was that as far as the million listen to March goes, 670 00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:12,320 I wanted to let you know that he's far too modest 671 00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:13,320 to tell you himself, 672 00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:16,320 but podcast pool at podcastpool.com 673 00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:18,320 who, as you know, is a lawyer in the UK, 674 00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:21,320 and also an organizer of podcast.com UK. 675 00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:24,320 Has been asked by the BBC on Radio 5 Live 676 00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:27,320 to do his pod lawyer podcast 677 00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:30,320 and put that out on National Radio in the UK, 678 00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:33,320 which is also available to international listeners 679 00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:36,320 through the BBC listen again player. 680 00:45:36,320 --> 00:45:40,320 So that is undoubtedly going to be a 681 00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:42,320 good move towards getting more listeners 682 00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:44,320 to podcasting. 683 00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:46,320 And Radio 5 is being very, very supportive 684 00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:48,320 of the whole medium at the moment. 685 00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:50,320 Anyway, thanks again, sorry I rambled 686 00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:51,320 and I love the show. 687 00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:52,320 Keep it up, thanks. 688 00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:53,320 Thank you very much, Adrian. 689 00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:54,320 Really appreciate it. 690 00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:55,320 And of course, congrats to podcast, 691 00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:57,320 Paul, he did tell me that. 692 00:45:57,320 --> 00:45:59,320 I thought I had mentioned it on the show. 693 00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:01,320 Of course the BBC is happy with that. 694 00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:03,320 He's doing it for free. 695 00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:04,320 That's great exposure. 696 00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:06,320 Great exposure for him and for podcasting. 697 00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:07,320 Love that. 698 00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:08,320 So to wrap this up, 699 00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:12,320 here's what I'm going to propose internally at pod show 700 00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:14,320 because I think this is a great opportunity. 701 00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:16,320 I would like the pod safe net 702 00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:17,320 with music network to invest 703 00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:19,320 and to become that clearing agency. 704 00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:22,320 And here's the first steps we could take. 705 00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:26,320 If you're a member of the network, 706 00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:31,320 then I think that the benefit in your podcaster, 707 00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:33,320 the first step we could take is, 708 00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:38,320 okay, we will make sure that, 709 00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:41,320 let me think about this. 710 00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:44,320 We will make sure that the collections are done 711 00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:46,320 for podcasts who are monetizing 712 00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:48,320 and using pod safe music. 713 00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:50,320 And it will be a fraction. 714 00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:51,320 It'll be small. 715 00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:53,320 It'll be freaking pennies, okay? 716 00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:55,320 But millions of pennies 717 00:46:55,320 --> 00:46:57,320 starts to become interesting for anybody 718 00:46:57,320 --> 00:46:59,320 and I think eventually we're going to go 719 00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:00,320 in that direction. 720 00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:02,320 There's no doubt about it. 721 00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:05,320 If a radio station or television station 722 00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:08,320 or some mainstream media wants to use the music, 723 00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:09,320 sure, no problem. 724 00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:10,320 But you have a very different rate. 725 00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:11,320 We're talking dollars there. 726 00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:12,320 Not pennies. 727 00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:14,320 For, you know, ten cents, 728 00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:16,320 ten cents or dimes or whatever. 729 00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:17,320 We'll figure that out. 730 00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:20,320 And it will take significant resources. 731 00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:22,320 It will take work, 732 00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:25,320 but I really would love to invest in that 733 00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:28,320 because I think that's how we fulfill 734 00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:30,320 on George Carlin's dream. 735 00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:33,320 And that's how we turn the tables. 736 00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:35,320 And I'm pretty sure, 737 00:47:35,320 --> 00:47:37,320 if we can succeed at that. 738 00:47:37,320 --> 00:47:40,320 And we really are bringing the listeners in 739 00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:42,320 because we've got exciting new music 740 00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:45,320 and tons of it and lots of diversity 741 00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:48,320 that, you know, the mainstream media 742 00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:49,320 will want to play this. 743 00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:50,320 And they'll want to be a part of it. 744 00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:51,320 I mean, it's there. 745 00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:53,320 It's the fuel that makes radio stations. 746 00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:55,320 Music radio stations run is the music. 747 00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:57,320 They're all pulling from the same 748 00:47:57,320 --> 00:47:58,320 one and a half million songs 749 00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:00,320 that you can download from iTunes 750 00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:02,320 or from Rhapsody or, you know, 751 00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:04,320 whatever other system you, 752 00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:06,320 you may be subscribed to where you buy your music. 753 00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:07,320 Everyone's, and they all say it. 754 00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:09,320 It's a million and a half songs. 755 00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:11,320 That's all that is no more songs than that. 756 00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:12,320 Well, we know that's not true. 757 00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:14,320 So I'm going to work on this. 758 00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:16,320 I'm going to keep you updated. 759 00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:20,320 But I think that as podcasting starts to move, 760 00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:22,320 not all, not all by the way, 761 00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:24,320 if you, if you have a non-commercial podcast, 762 00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:27,320 you should be able to use the music 763 00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:30,320 under almost like a creative commons license 764 00:48:30,320 --> 00:48:32,320 where you don't have to pay anything 765 00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:36,320 for the privilege of using it as long as you report it. 766 00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:38,320 But if you do and people will 767 00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:40,320 and we're helping with them with that 768 00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:41,320 with monetization, 769 00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:43,320 then we're going to pay the artists 770 00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:44,320 who are part of this. 771 00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:45,320 Okay, I'm sorry for the rant. 772 00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:47,320 I didn't get to all the songs I wanted to play. 773 00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:49,320 I didn't get to have the promos I wanted to, 774 00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:50,320 to put before you. 775 00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:51,320 We'll do that tomorrow. 776 00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:52,320 Thanks for listening. 777 00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:55,320 Bye-bye.