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Delta Sierra Charlie 34-0.

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The $60 million worth of airplane strapped to my ass.

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The next generation radio content in my ears.

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I like to think I'm flying into the future.

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Fantastic, it's a battle curry.

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Hey everybody, it is time for the Charlie.

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Some different today.

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You've probably read somewhere in a newspaper or more likely you've seen on television.

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The bird flu is coming.

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But I don't know much about it.

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I was lucky enough to find out that our investors are one of our investors in pod show and

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smaller burkins.

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Can tell us a lot more about it and are actually doing something about it.

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So I thought I'd share that today with you on the source code.

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And we're going to get to that.

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Well right after we hear from our friends over, or a think of course.

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Do you believe anything is possible?

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We do.

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We believe in an internet that's safe from viruses and scammers.

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We're Earthlink.

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We believe your personal information should be just that.

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Personal.

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And we believe your internet should be a friend, not a foe.

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We're Earthlink.

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Make this smart choice.

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Visit earthlink.net and discover what our internet experts can do for you.

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Earthlink.

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We revolve around you.

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Joining the conversation on the Charlie now

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is bookbires.

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The B in cleaner perkins.

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Callfield and buyers.

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And Dr. Beth Sidenberg of Biocrist Pharmaceuticals.

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Both are on the board of directors of the pandemic preparedness and bio defense fund, which

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was announced last week.

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I thank you both for taking the time to talk about this.

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So I was in New York last week.

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And I read the announcement in New York Times.

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And it blew me away.

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Mainly because all of a sudden this thing became real for me.

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We're talking specifically about avian flu or the bird flu.

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Here's a group of very smart people who I guess believe that something is probably going

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to happen or it's inevitable and putting their money where the mouth is so to speak.

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Maybe I should start with Brooke with you.

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Can you just explain, what exactly?

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This is a $200 million fund.

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What does that mean?

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Is there already?

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Is there $200 million that you are now starting to invest?

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Does this money already exist?

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How exactly does that work?

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What is an investment fund, I guess, is what I'm asking?

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Sure, Adam.

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So yes, our firm, client-approved, and call to the buyers, is a venture capital firm based

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in Manlo Park, California.

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And we have raised and completed that process.

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$200 million fund specifically targeted toward what we call pandemic preparedness innovation.

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And the reason we're doing this is to call attention to the severity of the problem.

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And our belief that more attention needs to be paid to innovation gaps in preparing for

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pandemic pathogens and global public health issues.

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And by innovation gaps, what we mean are vaccine, any viral, and diagnostic products that are needed

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by the world that are just not getting developed quickly enough.

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So this is the thing that almost troubles me when I think about this.

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And clearly when you get into the business of investing, other people's money as well into this area,

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that means that you are expecting this to work.

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I presume that that's kind of funny.

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Will the fund be successful if the flu actually breaks out, or if we actually need something,

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or am I seeing that a little too short-sighted there?

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Well, the innovations that are needed in vaccines, any viral drugs and diagnostics,

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are ones that are platform technologies.

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So we hope a pandemic never happens, even a mild one.

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If it does, the world is going to need these innovative products to make it as less severe as possible.

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If a pandemic does not occur, these kinds of innovations, these kind of products,

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can be applied to other infectious diseases as well.

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And it's very fortuitous for our firm that last spring, Dr. Bestseinberg joined us as a partner here at

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Clienter Procus, Coffield and Buyers.

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And she brings the background of 25 years of product development experience at the

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National Institutes of Health, Mer, Crystal Myers, and Amgen.

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And so Beth, one or two come in on this.

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Okay, great. Thank you, Brooke.

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Yeah, Adam, I think that it's important for us to recognize that influenza is a great example of what we call emerging

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or an emergent infectious disease, meaning something that occurs and can change on an annual basis

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and create disease in millions of people.

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In order to really understand the disease that's developing,

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you need to be able to see it coming in the environment, you know,

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so in a specific country, be able to diagnose it with rapid tools and then treat it and prevent it.

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And technology needs to be flexible, needs to be able to be applied quickly,

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and made available to people around the world.

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And flu gives us an opportunity to focus on those types of innovations and technologies,

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and apply them to other infectious diseases if they were to occur.

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Okay, so a lot of the media talk now, which I actually despise it because all they're doing,

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I feel is just freaking people out and not even talking about possible solutions other than this so-called

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stockpile of Tammy flu or whatever it should be available.

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Actually, I lived in Belgium for about five years, and I think it was two years ago,

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what they were calling the bird flu, swept through continental Europe,

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and actually we were only one kilometer outside of the quarantine area,

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and we actually had officials come by and investigate,

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we had a family of like six black swans, and, you know, they were ready to quote,

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call them if necessary, and one of my neighbors was working on a lot of the calling,

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and he actually got, I guess, the bird flu, which I presume that, you know,

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that is indeed possible that you get this from birds, and he was really quite ill.

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He, you know, he was okay.

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Are we really talking now about the, you know, a pandemic or the one that everyone is talking about,

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and I'd love to talk about some more, you know, just bio-defense in general,

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is it, is it the tipping point where it spreads from human to human,

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and is that something that is a reality?

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You know, Adam, I think the way to look at this is,

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there, if you think about the birds, whether it's, you know, swans or chickens,

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or just any kind of migratory bird, consider them the natural reservoir for influenza.

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It's not uncommon that these birds carry flu,

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and the key question and what we're worried about is, will the virus change

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when it replicates, when it makes more of itself, will it change to a form

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that will allow it to be infectious, not only from birds to people or birds to pigs, for example,

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but from person to person.

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And the only way that that can happen is when it's making more of itself,

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the virus, and it's called replication, it has to make a mistake,

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and change or mutate that virus to a form where then it becomes highly infectious

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from person to person.

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Is it possible for that to happen?

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Absolutely.

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Can we predict when it will happen or the probability of that happening?

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We can't predict that.

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We do know that annual flu often goes through that process.

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Birds, or the reservoir, it goes into what you consider a mixing vessel

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or another kind of intermediary species, which is a pig,

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and then it can be transformed or mutated into a form that infects person to person.

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So KPCB is really known for a lot of its technology investments

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certainly in the recent decade.

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The technology, as I understand it, of creating vaccines,

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is actually antiquated, maybe not the right word,

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but you still use chicken eggs to actually develop anti-virus matter?

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Well, that's right, Adam.

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The way vaccines are made today are in eggs.

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I mean, literally tens of millions of them.

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And that's where the vaccine that we all get, hopefully everyone,

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listening gets every year for what we call the seasonal flu.

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And that vaccine contains the best guess by public health experts

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each year of three strains that were probably going around the world.

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But that technique has not been replaced.

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So that's part of the innovation gap set that we were talking about.

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And so what we're doing with this new funding is we're searching worldwide

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for innovators, young companies, inventors, and scientists,

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who are developing ways of making vaccines and cells.

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So, so-called cellular production.

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Or even beyond that, not in cells, so a DNA-based vaccine.

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And the advantage of these is, first of all, they don't use eggs,

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which would be problematic, a baby, and flu breaks out human human.

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And secondly, these production techniques allow a shorter time

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of response, what we call surge capacity.

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So instead of the current six months it takes to scale up a lot of vaccine doses

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for the world, it could take literally six weeks,

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or maybe even shorter.

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And then also new vaccine production techniques

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and product development techniques, formulation, and so on.

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We call it would allow vaccines that are more exquisitely immunogenic,

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which means less can be given to a person to protect them.

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In the antiviral space, there is Tamiflu, which is a good drug,

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but we don't know how will it would work against

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really strong new viruses that come out.

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It works okay against the seasonal flu,

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but against avian flu so far in Southeast Asia.

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It hasn't worked so well in humans.

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And so there is some new antivirals that are being developed.

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We want to invest in those and encourage the development of them

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by our capital as well.

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So, as a broken obvious question is,

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in the grand scale of preparedness and defense against anything

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in today's world, you know, $200 million

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with all respect is chump change.

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If you just look at what we're spending on the war against terror.

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Is this, I mean, is that enough?

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If it's, and if it's only $200 million,

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why isn't the government doing this type of funding

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and working hard or NGOs or any other organizations

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besides venture capital?

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Well, they are as well.

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So, there are a lot of people working on this problem.

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The United States Federal Government works on it

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from a variety of points of view.

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The National Institutes of Health has an allergy and infectious disease

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division that funds research.

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But, and so does the HHS and the CDC,

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Health and Human Services and Centers for Disease Control.

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But, their role as government is to encourage research

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to fund some of it.

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Government doesn't develop products.

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The private sector does that.

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And so, our $200 million will go to that

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to developing the products that then go out

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into the public health system.

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Now, as your question of a quantitation of that

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or size of it, generally when we invest in a company,

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there are other investors who will follow our lead.

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And so, usually, there's a four or five

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to one multiple on that.

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So, we estimate that.

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So, our investing will probably lead to about a billion

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dollars of investment in these companies.

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So, then, there's two obvious questions that arise.

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One is, so let's say the fund produces one or more

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technologies or products that actually are effective.

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That has the capability, of course, of making the investors

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and the fund in these products wealthy beyond their wildest dreams.

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And there's always the question of, well, is it made affordable

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for everyone can, you know, will it only be a certain segment

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that then kind of access to this technology or this medication

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to actually survive an outbreak?

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Is, you know, how do you look at that?

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Well, it's way more complicated than that.

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First of all, I don't think in infectious diseases

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or anyone gets wealthy beyond their wildest dreams.

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Because there's a desire just as you said

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to get these products out to everyone.

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In the developed countries, the drugs like this

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would be priced at a rate, what we call a reasonable price.

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And then it's our goal to have these drugs available

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in the less developed countries at cost or some other method

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of getting it to them so that this can be a worldwide phenomenon.

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And it's important to think as Tom Friedman says the world is flat.

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It's especially true in infectious diseases

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because with worldwide travel and how people move around today

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and infectious diseases starts in one country

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really is local to every country in the world.

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Beth, I believe that part of the fund has already been allocated

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towards your work.

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Could you tell me what you're doing?

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Yes, sure, Adam.

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So one of our first investments is in a company called Biocrist,

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which is a drug discovery company that has an important

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antiviral agent called Paramavir.

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We believe as Brooke mentioned that it's very important to have

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multiple options to choose from when if there is a diagnosis of flu

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in your ability to treat patients.

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Paramavir is a similar mechanism to Tamiflu

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and it can be given intravenously.

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So in particular for patients who are very ill and in the hospital

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parameter we hope will be a very important therapeutic option.

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Now let's just say there's no pandemic or maybe just a very mild one.

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I presume we don't lose.

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I presume the investments are for long term and not just a short term.

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Oh my gosh, the black death plague is coming.

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Is this all for the long term?

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Yes.

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This is not dependent upon anything bad happening.

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Sure.

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Yeah.

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So venture capital is really a 10 year horizon on investing.

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That's true in all technology and science areas.

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It's especially true in this one.

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And as I mentioned earlier, so a new vaccine production technique for flu

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or avian flu or new strains of that would be applicable to new vaccine technology

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production methods for hepatitis and herbysimplex and many other kinds of diseases

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respiratory viral diseases that are around today.

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It's important to remember that there are over 20 new infectious pathogens that have emerged

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since 1970 in the world, HIV being one, of course, that's been devastating in this tragic.

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We haven't talked about diagnostics and that's another area that's very important.

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There is, for example, today, no rapid diagnostic test that can be used point of care

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to determine if someone has avian flu.

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It's possible to go in right now and get a rapid test to see if you have the annual flu, but not avian.

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What's the incubation period of the avian flu?

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What's the incubation period?

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Well, that's an interesting question.

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The incubation period, it doesn't show symptoms so far on avian flu for at least seven days,

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but the person can be infectious by the second day.

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So a person could be walking around in the infectious state, but not be symptomatic.

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So there's a need for a test that could be done by an untrained technician with agricultural workers

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or at an airport check-in facility or something like that.

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So the sick people will know that they're sick and healthy will know that they're okay.

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And then you would know who to give like aggressive antiviral therapy to.

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If you read the paper today when they take the samples that you read about in Turkey or Iraq or India now or wherever,

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it takes days to get confirmation.

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So that's a second diagnostic test that's needed.

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There would use less technology of instruments in a special lab and more out in the field.

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Well, that does sound like your first line of defense is identification within timely manner, I agree on that.

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Just moving on to the bio-defense part of the fund.

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Whenever I read the word defense, I immediately think of aerospace and defense and I think war.

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Is that how I should interpret that?

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No, the way we think of that is that these are infectious pathogens, regardless of the delivery system.

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So what works for public health works sort of across the board?

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Excellent.

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Well, I guess the only thing that's left is to stay close to you guys and real happy.

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Because if something breaks out, you know I'm going to be living in your basement.

284
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Well, you're welcome too.

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And just break that car.

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Yeah, we'll we'll turn it by.

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But so I just in general, just as a final question, should we really be,

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I mean, this is great to hear.

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I'm really happy to know that there, you know, at least understand some of the work that's going on,

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and even understanding about, you know, the identification in a timely manner,

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and knowledge of if someone is infected, is all the fear that is being built up now,

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particularly on television.

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Is it warranted?

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And I guess that's the best question.

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Is it really warranted?

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It feels like this thing is just around the corner.

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And now in the United Kingdom, it's like, you know, bring all the birds in because it's coming.

298
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It just feels like, you know, it's being whipped into a frenzy almost.

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Well, Adam, I think that there's reason to worry because the virus that we've seen that's infected people directly from birds.

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Is a very, very, very, very severe type of infection that develops in people.

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And so there is reason to have careful evaluation, increased surveillance and diagnosis,

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whether it's in the birds or people.

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And I think that, you know, the silver lining for us here is being prepared,

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and moving innovation forward in this area of emerging infectious diseases is going to be a very good thing for the population at large for the global,

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for the world, whether we have a pandemic from an avian flu or not.

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We're going to modernize with vaccine business.

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We have an opportunity to have better diagnostics and better therapies for people.

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And we think it'll make an important contribution.

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Well, I appreciate both of you taking the time to explain some of this to me today.

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And definitely, you know, keep me updated on progress.

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Brooke, if someone's listening right now and thinks, you know,

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Wow, you know, I have an idea or I have a plan.

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I mean, how do they reach out to you?

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Oh, they just go to the our website www.kpcb.com.

315
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Okay, and then I'd like to know if you've ever considered doing a podcast,

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because you've got a great voice, Brooke, you'd be perfect for one.

317
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Well, I'm just trying to be like you.

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Got to grow the hair man, that's all.

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Best side in Bergberg by us.

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Thank you very much.

321
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And let's definitely keep in touch on this and see where it goes.

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I'm sure the audience would love to be updated as well.

323
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And if you feedback, I get from all past on you guys.

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All right, thank you.

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Thanks, Adam.

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Well, I don't know, but you guys, are you freaked out by that?

327
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Or not?

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I'm still a little bit confused about how I should feel about this pending pandemic that is upon us.

329
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And by the way, this was the first time that I used Cas Blaster with Skype.

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And I'm pretty happy with the result.

331
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I mean, we did all in one go.

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No glitches, everything sounded pretty cool.

333
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Although, you know, a lot of room noise, man.

334
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I never noticed that when I shut up and when someone else is talking,

335
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it's like you can hear the whole condo kind of breathing, breathing upon you.

336
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And a couple of lighter clicks there in the background,

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but considering the topic, I think it was necessary.

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So this is just a temporary format change for the Charlie.

339
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I just wanted to mix it up a little bit.

340
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You know that I'm working on getting my Uncle Don in.

341
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I don't think he'll fit in 20 or 30 minutes,

342
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we'll probably have to do a series of Uncle Don conversations,

343
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which I might have to edit, because you know,

344
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what is it?

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It's like 50 years of life in Washington and in politics,

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and not just in Washington, but in Asia.

347
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Gosh, I should have asked him about the avian flu as well.

348
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Anyway, so that turned out pretty successful.

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Those of you interested, the way I did it with Casplaster is using two sound cards,

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and I just routed Skype through a different sound card,

351
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and it went through the mixer,

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and came back into Casplaster so that worked out perfectly.

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If you're listening to us on serious stars 103,

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soon to be moving to channel 102.

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So I think that's coming up in a week or so,

356
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as we move just a little bit closer to God,

357
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as we can move closer to the Stern channels on 101.

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You've got Pacific Coast Hillway coming up next.

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After that, it's a Madge Weinstein Donandru Gilmour Daily.

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Today, maybe, DVD weekly, or which at all.

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I'm not quite sure what's coming up.

362
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And of course, I'm pod save music.

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We do that every single week,

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after noon between 6 and 10 Eastern 3 and 7 Pacific.

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Tomorrow I'll be back right here with more daily source code.

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We'll get back into some music.

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And we'll finish out the week,

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because I'm hurrying up, getting a lot of stuff done.

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So I can go back home.

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I'll see you, everybody.

371
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Bye-bye.

372
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Another pod show pod guest.

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Stick it in your ear.