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Netcasts you love.

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From people you trust.

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This is TWIT.

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Bandwidth for This Week in Tech is provided by AOL Radio and AOL.com slash podcasting.

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This is TWIT This Week in Tech, episode 85 for January 22, 2007 The Podfather.

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It is time to TWIT and Patrick Norton is back from a long hiatus.

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I hope that hiatus has been operated on and is now completely removed.

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We missed you, Patrick.

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Oh, well, it's that darn business production schedule.

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See us holiday travel thing.

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Yeah, between dusty trucks and trade shows in Vegas, it's hard to get Patrick, but we're

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glad to have you.

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And I know you have a lot of us being trapped in Wyoming behind the snowstorm was part

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of it.

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Oh, dear.

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Oh, wow.

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That was unplanned?

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No.

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I love Laramie Wyoming.

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It's one of my favorite towns in Wyoming after Jackson Hole, but I was not planning on spending,

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you know, a day and a half there waiting for Route 80 to open up on my way home.

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Wow.

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Wow.

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Also from Great Britain on the line, Will Harris from bit-tech.net, he's become one

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of our most welcome regulars and he's the guy who stirred up the whole thing with

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the pink jumper and the pink glasses and Adam Curry.

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It was your idea to offer him $20 and lo and behold, look here, he is, ladies and gentlemen,

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the Podfather himself, the founder of Podshow, of course, the original podcaster with his

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daily source code still going strong over 500 episodes.

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Adam, I'm so glad we could have you on Twitter.

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Oh, it's really great to be here, Leo, and you may now kiss the ring.

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Go ahead.

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Can I tongue it?

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Is it okay to tongue it?

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Yeah.

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As long as you get around all the edges.

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I'll polish it.

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Will and I were just going to the pub.

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Y'all can call us when you're done with this.

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Slightly unsettling this flow.

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I'm just glad Adam's got his connectivity.

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He's in San Francisco today and I guess Comcast was not behaving earlier this

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week.

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Oh, this is so amazing.

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I am literally, I literally, now you've got to check this out.

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I'm going to do a whole video show about this.

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I jacked into the telco closet.

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I put a Wi-Fi range extender into a hub.

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That is picked up by my iMac, which then routes to a Linksys, which then spreads

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it throughout the condo.

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Do not mess with curry, man, when it comes to connectivity.

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Damn it.

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Damn it.

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This is one of the things I think that's so cool about you, Adam, is you're kind of

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a movie star.

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I mean, starting with MTV and everything.

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And yet, you're really quite a geek deep down.

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In fact, really, that's perhaps what your legacy will be.

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Do people, have they finally stopped introducing you as former MTV VJ?

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I don't think that will ever stop.

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Does that drive you crazy?

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No, no, no.

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I'm very proud of the time I spent there.

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Not proud of all the work that I did, but it was a very exciting time at an interesting

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point in the history of media when things were changing dramatically.

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True.

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But it is true that if you look at the roots of my broadcasting career, it started with

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me building my own transmitter and having my mom drive me around the block to see how

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far the signal would reach.

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And I had the Radio Shack 101 project kit, so I was always making stuff.

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So I'm totally a geek.

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I just met the right people who knew how to do my hair.

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Well, and your wife still does your hair, I think, so she's doing her hair.

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Absolutely.

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Absolutely.

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I'll tell her, Leo.

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Thank you.

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Still looking good.

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A little shorter, but still looking like a movie star.

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Pink jumper or not?

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Let me just say one thing about the pink jumper.

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When you go, this was at the Podcast Con UK, which is not really the epitome of the

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fashion industry.

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So no matter what, no matter what you come in, dressed as, you know, and the

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pink jumper, okay, but I just want to make one thing very clear, the glasses,

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the rose-tinted glasses are really foreseeing.

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They're not, you know, sunglasses.

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Yes, they're purposely rose-tinted because, let's face it, the wood looks

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nicer that way.

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Well, in the interest of full disclosure, we didn't give you 20 bucks either, so.

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That's true.

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Although I am just...

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I'm using a Splenda flavor blend right now in my Senseo coffee, so.

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Leo, I appreciate it.

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I'll send that snippet to the client.

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And, in fact, I use GoDaddy to register all my domains.

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Well, you know, you laugh about it, but this is exactly what brand

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advertising is about.

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Brand advertising is not about finding some relevance on a web page and

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putting a relevant link to a product to click.

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You know, it's about creating a brand messaging.

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Yeah, exactly.

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And it carries through.

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Here you are, talking about Splendas, if it's the most normal thing in the world.

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Well, it is.

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It is with the advantage of...

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I don't know.

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Folks, don't worry, this isn't going to become inside podcasting for the rest of

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the show.

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We will get to the tech news.

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I want to talk to MckiSplend.

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I want to talk to MckiSplend.

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I want to talk to MckiSplend.

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People are fascinated that people actually use Splenda in real life.

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I love Splend.

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I'll be honest with you, I use Splenda.

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In fact, I...

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Callie and Neil were up doing Call For Help a few months ago and they got the call

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on the show and I said, oh, hey, Neil, I'm a big Splendid.

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I don't use the flavor blends, I'll be honest with you,

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but I do love Splendid.

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I hate to think, you know, nobody knows what it's doing to me,

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but it's, but it's, you know, well, sure it's fine.

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Now that you can go to the truthaboutsplendid.com,

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you can find out what it's not doing to you, Leo.

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Oh, good, all right.

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Just for the record, I am a very big fan of the Pink Jump.

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I did think it was very nice.

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All right, thank you.

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Thank you.

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It was the, it was the context.

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You're confirming everything,

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everybody thinks about Brits right now, Will.

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You understand that.

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Well, why is that?

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I don't know why that is.

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I've never met a more macho, manly, you know, people as a whole.

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Are you kidding me, Leo?

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It's like 70% of all British men are gay.

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Oh, wait a minute.

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You see, you see, you see.

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Well, let's slow down a little bit.

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Now, before we get into it.

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You're living in San Francisco while you're saying that.

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Don't get too excited.

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At least skew the results a little bit.

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And he has an I Want You poster as his icon on Skype,

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so I don't know what that means.

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And what neighborhood are you living in?

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I think may as well get all the facts out.

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Now, come on.

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Not that there's anything wrong with that,

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but we're getting back to it.

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There's nothing wrong with that.

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Getting back to what you were saying

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about podcasting and advertising.

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I think that that's an interesting juxtaposition.

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You obviously were talking about Google ads

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versus podcast ads.

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And I think that that is one of the strengths

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of podcasting ads.

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They're personal as opposed to impersonal.

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Well, from a business perspective,

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and I've always made very clear,

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pod show is about commercializing whatever we can

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in this new media revolution.

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Google is extremely successful with their ad words.

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There's no doubt about it.

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They've turned advertising on their head.

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But the big end game that even Google

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is working towards is brand advertising

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and creating an affinity.

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And if you look at the relationship

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between the producer of a podcast

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who is also often a host and the audience,

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that's what they call the customer engagement,

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what we call audience, Leo.

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Engagement is the big word in advertising right now,

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isn't it?

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Right, but it's all about audience.

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And no matter what you're talking about,

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your audience will, they'll buy stuff

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that you're not even getting paid to promote.

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Mostly that's the case, because we have so few advertisers.

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Well, I'm happy to talk to you about that, sir.

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You know that.

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First of all, I actually would like to ask you

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a little bit about pod show.

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Because it isn't exactly clear what the notion is.

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Some people said you're trying to build

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a new media network.

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Is it an advertising network?

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Is it a network of programs?

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What exactly is the plan with pod show?

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Well, it is a new media network.

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Because in order to have network entertainment,

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you have to be able to do the networking side

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and the entertainment side.

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And it's all built around our version

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of an advertising platform.

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The way we sell packages to advertisers,

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the way we work with producers and hosts,

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who we have relationships with, or things

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that we create ourselves.

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And it does make sense to integrate that

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across the board, I have to say.

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You have to scale it, absolutely.

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And also, advertisers are looking for,

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I'm sorry, advertisers, of course,

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are looking for their audience.

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But the agencies they work with,

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they're looking for a place where they can go

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where they're going to get consistency.

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They know what's going to be delivered.

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They know how it's going to be reported to them.

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So that's kind of where we fit in.

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And it's going well.

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Adam, I've got to say, if your advertisers are looking

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for that much, they're ahead of the curve in a lot of places.

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Because most of the places I've seen

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are trying to define how video and audio

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is delivered on the web.

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And there's more tracking systems

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I've run into in the last year than ever thought

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would be possible.

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Numbers are the problem, aren't they, really?

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Well, what we work on the hardest,

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you can't have media change the way it's created,

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the way it's distributed, who creates and distributes it.

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You can't have that change without advertising changing.

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That is what we work on the hardest,

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is changing advertising.

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And that's what our agency spends a lot of time doing,

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educating ad agencies, trying to explain to them,

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this is something different.

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It's not radio, it's something different.

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We don't have to sell it in 30-second chunks

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because we have no limitation on time.

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Ergo this conversation that's going on.

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And on, and on, and on, and on.

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And in this week's technique.

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I want to talk about Pirate Bay.

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It's a little bit of an old story,

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but I think since we've got two Brits on here,

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or two people who live in Britain anyway,

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this is such a tradition in Britain

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to have these pirate radio stations,

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like Radio Luxiport.

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Oh, the Sea Land thing?

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Sea Land and Radio Caroline.

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Now Pirate Bay, the BitTorrent tracker site

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that has been up and down in Sweden,

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is trying, I think it's more publicity than anything else,

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but wants to buy Sea Land.

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Sea Land's got a kind of crazy quilt history.

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Will Harris, are you following this story?

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Yeah, it's pretty crazy.

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I mean, a Sea Land.

259
00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:23,320
Sea Land was...

260
00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:25,280
Well, they might call it Bit Land when they own it.

261
00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:26,360
I don't know.

262
00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:28,320
Like an oil rig.

263
00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:30,240
No, it's a naval platform.

264
00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:31,720
It was for target practice.

265
00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:32,880
Oh, it's a naval platform.

266
00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:33,720
Yeah.

267
00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:36,480
Well, it's a pile of concrete off the British coast.

268
00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:40,280
It looks like a drilling rig, it does.

269
00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:42,320
Well, so I don't know if the guy still owns it,

270
00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:43,320
but for many years,

271
00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:44,160
he does.

272
00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:45,000
There's a guy who lived on Sea Land,

273
00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:47,160
and he had his own passports and his own money,

274
00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:48,960
and he wasn't recognized internationally.

275
00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:52,120
Roy of Sea Land, and he's still there,

276
00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:54,160
and the problem is he's getting old,

277
00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:56,200
and he's trying to sell it off.

278
00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:58,200
But were they ever acknowledged

279
00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:00,080
as a real sovereign nation?

280
00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:01,200
No, I don't think so.

281
00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:05,760
I mean, if they could shut down all of mp3.com in Russia,

282
00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:08,160
eventually, I'm sure they can shut down Sea Land,

283
00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:10,440
so it sounds like more like a publicity stunt to me,

284
00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:11,280
which is a nice one, of course.

285
00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:12,120
So what I want to know is,

286
00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:14,640
if they're going to set up Pirate Bay on Sea Land,

287
00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:16,400
what exactly is the net connectivity

288
00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:17,760
in the middle of the ocean on a naval platform?

289
00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:18,920
Apparently, it's one megabit.

290
00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:20,280
It's not enough to run a track.

291
00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:22,400
Dude, I've got this set up here in my condo.

292
00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:23,400
I can sell it to him.

293
00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:24,240
No condo.

294
00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:25,080
Yeah, I'm gonna come out.

295
00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:25,920
He can wire it for Y5.

296
00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:27,400
It'll be great.

297
00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:29,440
All you need is a Pringles cantana,

298
00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:30,800
and you're set.

299
00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:32,680
Well, of course, the concept with BitTorrent

300
00:11:32,680 --> 00:11:35,360
is that they only have to seed it from Sea Land.

301
00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:37,280
They don't actually have to have all the bandwidth.

302
00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:39,160
But imagine the bandwidth on the Pirate Bay

303
00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:40,000
is pretty serious.

304
00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:42,120
I mean, there's a lot of people using it.

305
00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:43,280
How is all of mp3?

306
00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:44,120
It's still alive.

307
00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:44,960
It's still running.

308
00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:45,800
You can't use a credit card,

309
00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:47,120
but they don't seem like they're out of business.

310
00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:48,480
I don't know how well they're...

311
00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:51,480
I mean, the RIAA's attempt to shut them down

312
00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:52,600
isn't that effective.

313
00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:54,840
Yeah, I don't know.

314
00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:58,240
It's, you know, that's on an agenda somewhere at the UN.

315
00:11:58,240 --> 00:11:59,360
Oh, it's on a big agenda.

316
00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:01,240
Absolutely, you know.

317
00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:03,160
You think it's really on a big agenda?

318
00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:05,440
Well, if the United States it is.

319
00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:06,280
Yeah, I mean, there's...

320
00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:08,440
It's been a part of economic policy

321
00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:09,960
of the United States government

322
00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:12,640
that's been beating on Russia.

323
00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:15,720
It's actually written into these treaties now.

324
00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:17,360
By name.

325
00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:19,400
Well, it's pretty much like the Gucci bags

326
00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:21,640
and the sunglasses that you can buy on any street

327
00:12:21,640 --> 00:12:23,720
in New York or LA or San Francisco.

328
00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:25,960
You know, yeah, they're supposed to be stopping that, too.

329
00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:26,800
Yeah, right.

330
00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:27,640
But it's...

331
00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:29,800
And I tell my wife all the time,

332
00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:31,440
don't buy that shit, man,

333
00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:33,240
because one day someone will rip your shit off

334
00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:35,040
and you'll be really angry.

335
00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:36,240
Adam, I'm gonna have to edit those.

336
00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:37,080
We have a clean tag.

337
00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:37,920
Oh, we can't say that?

338
00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:38,760
We have a clean tag.

339
00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:41,160
This is not the daily source code, my friend.

340
00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:44,160
I can't go around with $13 million

341
00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:46,040
to airplane strap to my Tukas.

342
00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:46,880
It's $15.

343
00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:47,840
$15, I'm sorry.

344
00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:50,560
Actually, that's an interesting story

345
00:12:50,560 --> 00:12:52,480
is Virgin Atlantic's attempt

346
00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:55,160
to get into the U.S. market with a viral video.

347
00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:56,840
Have you seen the viral video?

348
00:12:56,840 --> 00:12:57,680
No, I haven't.

349
00:12:57,680 --> 00:13:00,080
The problem is that U.S. law prohibits

350
00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:03,040
non-U.S. citizens from operating an airline

351
00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:03,920
in the United States.

352
00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:06,560
Virgin would like to get into the U.S.

353
00:13:06,560 --> 00:13:10,200
and the Department of Transportation's blocking them

354
00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:11,160
right now.

355
00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:12,000
And so...

356
00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:12,840
I think Arnold will fix that.

357
00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:14,240
Arnold, if it's coming in and say,

358
00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:16,360
if I can become president, Richard,

359
00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:18,400
you can become an American citizen.

360
00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:21,240
Now, they're doing it through a shell company.

361
00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:22,080
It's a shell.

362
00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:23,200
It's all Americans running it,

363
00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:24,600
but the Department of Transportation

364
00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:26,520
seems not to be swayed.

365
00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:28,080
So now they've gone to YouTube.

366
00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:29,000
And you can actually see this.

367
00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:30,040
Our friend, Alex Lindsey,

368
00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:33,200
produced a commercial for these new jets,

369
00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:34,280
which looks slick.

370
00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:37,200
Linux Box is running with entertainment.

371
00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:40,000
And they're trying to get people to sign petitions,

372
00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:41,320
which I signed,

373
00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:45,000
to get the DOT to get off their B-U-T-T

374
00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:47,200
and let Virgin in.

375
00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:50,720
Now, I fly Virgin once a month,

376
00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:52,720
and their in-flight entertainment system,

377
00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:54,320
which indeed, the one they're using currently

378
00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:55,520
is based on Linux,

379
00:13:55,520 --> 00:13:57,720
because I've seen the boot screen a couple of times,

380
00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:01,000
is phenomenal.

381
00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:03,160
And it's really not just that it works,

382
00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:06,680
but they also refresh the content every month.

383
00:14:06,680 --> 00:14:07,960
They're trying to bring this to the U.S.

384
00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:10,800
They've got RJ-11 jacks at every seat.

385
00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:13,600
They've got standard power supplies at every seat.

386
00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:15,680
Wait, wait, they've got POTS jacks at every seat?

387
00:14:15,680 --> 00:14:17,360
No, no, I'm sorry, IJ-45.

388
00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:18,520
I'm sorry.

389
00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:20,400
I'm sorry, I'm standing in the presence of...

390
00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:21,240
I bow down.

391
00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:22,800
I'm sorry, I'll kiss your ring, too, Patrick.

392
00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:23,640
RJ-45.

393
00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:24,640
No, no, no, I was just sitting there,

394
00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:25,880
I was like, you bring your own phone?

395
00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:27,840
That's amazing.

396
00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:29,880
They've got dial-up networking in every seat.

397
00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:31,240
It's amazing.

398
00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:32,720
No, I don't...

399
00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:34,480
Do they offer internet connectivity

400
00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:35,320
on these Virgin flights?

401
00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:36,880
No, not currently.

402
00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:37,720
They have...

403
00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:40,480
You can use an SMS service.

404
00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:42,040
I wish they would do it,

405
00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:45,080
because that's the only thing missing from that experience.

406
00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:46,120
I love them to death.

407
00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:48,280
I have a million miles, only one million more,

408
00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:50,560
and I can get a free flight on Spaceship One.

409
00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:51,400
Really?

410
00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:52,840
Yeah, two million miles.

411
00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:55,120
How long did it take to get the first million?

412
00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:56,200
A year.

413
00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:57,120
Really?

414
00:14:57,120 --> 00:14:57,960
Yeah, so if I get the second million.

415
00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:00,880
You did a million miles in one year?

416
00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:02,400
Yeah, but there's a lot of bonuses

417
00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:03,920
and promotions in there.

418
00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:04,960
So I probably did the...

419
00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:07,240
Maybe about a quarter million miles, 300,000 miles?

420
00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:09,240
Yeah, I'd say it's about that, yeah.

421
00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:10,680
Good Lord.

422
00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:12,720
It's time to stay home.

423
00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:14,600
Holy cow, that's crazy.

424
00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:17,160
So a million miles and you would get to go to space,

425
00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:18,440
would you do that?

426
00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:19,320
Absolutely.

427
00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:20,320
You would?

428
00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:21,160
Oh, yeah.

429
00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:22,000
Oh, man, I'd love to.

430
00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:23,040
You're talking to the guy

431
00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:25,760
who refused to go in the Blue Angels plane.

432
00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:27,720
Patrick went, but I wouldn't do it.

433
00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:28,760
Well, I'm a pilot, you know,

434
00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:31,240
so I kinda have that bug.

435
00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:32,520
You trust Richard Branson.

436
00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:33,760
One of the features they do have

437
00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:36,320
on these new jets is you can chat

438
00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:37,320
with the other people on the plane.

439
00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:39,280
In fact, they create a chat room

440
00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:40,240
of everybody on the plane,

441
00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:41,520
which you can go into.

442
00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:42,360
Cool.

443
00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:43,960
Is that bizarre?

444
00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:46,280
I don't know exactly what that would be like.

445
00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:47,120
So...

446
00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:49,360
It's a hotty in 24G, look over here, baby.

447
00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:52,040
They also, you can order food from the screen

448
00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:53,200
and they said the stewardesses

449
00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:54,280
will bring it to you, or the...

450
00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:56,840
Can you imagine just like an IRC back channel

451
00:15:56,840 --> 00:15:58,520
at a conference where the stewardesses

452
00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:01,320
or the flight attendant is doing the safety demonstration,

453
00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:05,360
everyone's rankin', rankin' on them in the chat.

454
00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:07,880
It's the bad kids in the back of the class.

455
00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:09,080
I love it.

456
00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:11,080
Oh yeah, the little parking margarine cup attached

457
00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:12,840
to the enema bag's gonna be real useful

458
00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:16,760
in shoulder rolling at 500 miles an hour.

459
00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:18,000
Yeah, I can see that happening.

460
00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:20,680
Netflix is gonna start streaming movies as well.

461
00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:23,800
Now this is something that you won't be able to do, Will,

462
00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:25,320
but those of us who live in the States

463
00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:27,360
will be able to, next to the add button,

464
00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:29,320
where you add a movie to your Netflix queue,

465
00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:30,760
press a play button on some movies

466
00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:34,040
and we'll actually be able to watch it on the net.

467
00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:36,400
We actually had a viewer email us in about this.

468
00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:38,840
It's very similar to a lot of the existing systems,

469
00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:40,920
except for the cinema now, kind of, or...

470
00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:42,920
Yeah, except that apparently Netflix

471
00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:45,000
spent $40 million developing this one.

472
00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:45,840
Wow.

473
00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:49,280
PC-only, IA Internet Explorer-only,

474
00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:52,800
WMV-based encryption it looks like or feels like.

475
00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:55,240
It would have to be, there's no way they'd allow that.

476
00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:58,320
But you can't stop and start and switch films, right?

477
00:16:58,320 --> 00:16:59,920
Well, yeah, and that's what's kind of interesting

478
00:16:59,920 --> 00:17:01,760
is they're charging it based on the amount of time

479
00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:03,800
you physically watch the movie,

480
00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:05,800
which means you have to be logged into the net

481
00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:07,400
every time you wanna watch the movie.

482
00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:08,240
Right.

483
00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:10,040
Because it has to revalidate the DRM,

484
00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:11,920
because it's essentially streaming.

485
00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:14,760
So you're not gonna be able to purchase a movie

486
00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:17,560
or rent a movie and then drive up to the ski house

487
00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:18,400
and watch it there.

488
00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:20,280
You're gonna have to have a broadband connection

489
00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:21,280
anywhere you are.

490
00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:23,520
Reed Hastings, the CEO of Netflix said,

491
00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:24,800
we've gotta have a second act.

492
00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:27,800
Everybody agrees DVDs aren't gonna last forever.

493
00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:29,400
Is this a legitimate second act

494
00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:31,200
or is this just a, I mean,

495
00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:33,200
lots of other players as you point out.

496
00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:35,000
Well, they're in an interesting position

497
00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:36,760
in that they already have,

498
00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:39,920
I've heard numbers as high as 6 million regular subscribers

499
00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:40,760
to their service.

500
00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:41,600
Wow.

501
00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:43,720
So if all of those 6 million subscribers

502
00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:46,680
or even a small percentage or a moderate percentage

503
00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:49,400
of the 6 million subscribers have broadband,

504
00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:51,720
that could give them a pretty huge leg up

505
00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:53,960
over all of these online services.

506
00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:55,960
That said, they suffer from the same problems.

507
00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:58,200
They're claiming they'll be near instantaneous starting,

508
00:17:58,200 --> 00:17:59,920
but people have noted, tried it out.

509
00:17:59,920 --> 00:18:01,720
You know, like I said, we had a viewer who wrote it.

510
00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:04,160
He said, one movie started in like 30 seconds.

511
00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:06,440
It was a black and white Abbott Costello movie.

512
00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:08,960
You know, another movie, which was, you know,

513
00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:10,880
a modern, you know, full color feature.

514
00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:12,640
It took about 15 or 20 minutes to queue

515
00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:13,480
before it started.

516
00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:14,880
That's my problem with all these offerings

517
00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:17,600
is they don't tend to have pirates of the Caribbean

518
00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:18,800
on these streams.

519
00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:20,840
Well, actually a lot of the, a lot of the,

520
00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:23,320
a lot of the, of the major ones,

521
00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:26,800
like the, you know, movie links, cinema and out type ones.

522
00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:27,800
Are they starting to actually

523
00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:29,840
do have, they've had, they've had big movies on

524
00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:30,920
for a very long time.

525
00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:33,920
In fact, I believe movie link was actually started by the,

526
00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:37,560
it's either movie link or cinema now

527
00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:40,680
or both were actually started by the studios.

528
00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:45,840
This, you know, this concept, this business model

529
00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:48,600
of taking Hollywood content,

530
00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:50,960
licensing that for distribution over the internet

531
00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:53,400
I think is seriously flawed.

532
00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:57,080
The distribution costs are going to be enormous.

533
00:18:57,640 --> 00:18:58,840
The bandwidth costs.

534
00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:00,560
To get this to the customer.

535
00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:02,520
And if they make any money,

536
00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:04,320
the first thing that Hollywood is going to do

537
00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:05,720
is renegotiate.

538
00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:07,280
You know, it's, it's a dead end.

539
00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:09,120
It's, it's just like iTunes.

540
00:19:09,120 --> 00:19:09,960
Of course the.

541
00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:11,000
It's just like podcasts

542
00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:12,640
and video delivery online.

543
00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:13,480
Well, no.

544
00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:14,320
How are we different?

545
00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:15,160
How are we different?

546
00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:17,920
It's because we're willing to negotiate

547
00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:21,520
and deal with each other in a much more civilized manner.

548
00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:23,920
Hollywood is all about squeezing the last nickel.

549
00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:25,760
So if you don't own the content

550
00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:28,080
that you're distributing,

551
00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:30,240
you own your content, Leo, that you're distributing.

552
00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:32,960
So you're not going to rob yourself, you know,

553
00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:35,240
but Hollywood, you know, believe me,

554
00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:37,280
Apple does not make a lot of money per track.

555
00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:39,600
In aggregate, if you sell a billion songs, that's great,

556
00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:41,480
but it's not about the music.

557
00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:42,320
And we know that.

558
00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:43,160
Right.

559
00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:44,960
It's not a profit deal for them.

560
00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:46,240
It's about selling iPods.

561
00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:47,600
Yeah, it's about selling the hardware.

562
00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:48,440
Absolutely.

563
00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:49,280
Yeah.

564
00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:51,120
We're talking about squeezing every last.

565
00:19:51,120 --> 00:19:53,160
Are you going to bring up the Zoom?

566
00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:54,280
Yeah, baby.

567
00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:55,120
Tell me about this.

568
00:19:55,120 --> 00:19:56,560
Is this just fraud?

569
00:19:56,560 --> 00:19:57,720
Well, okay, go ahead.

570
00:19:57,720 --> 00:19:58,960
I mean, everybody knows, right?

571
00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:02,240
The Zoom catchphrase is welcome to the social.

572
00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:03,080
Yeah.

573
00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:06,280
By the way, I found a nightclub in Toronto called The Social.

574
00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:08,640
So I finally figured out what that means.

575
00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:10,640
It's this nightclub in Toronto.

576
00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:12,400
They all want you to go there.

577
00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:13,240
No?

578
00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:14,720
But also, we also know that, you know,

579
00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:17,680
Microsoft is pimping the Zoom out to all the big studios

580
00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:19,280
to try and get some support.

581
00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:21,680
So the units and the Sonys and whatever,

582
00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:26,680
well, it turns out now that there are some songs

583
00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:30,480
in the music catalog that you can't squirt.

584
00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:31,200
Not some.

585
00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:35,800
It's quite, somebody told me it's almost half.

586
00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:36,840
It's a huge number.

587
00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:38,400
So how pointless is that?

588
00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:39,520
You can't even squirt them.

589
00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:40,360
I mean, what kind?

590
00:20:40,360 --> 00:20:42,000
These record companies are insane.

591
00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:43,240
The thing is so protected.

592
00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:45,400
You can only three days or three plays

593
00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:48,040
and they don't even want you to do that.

594
00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:50,800
Yeah, it's pretty, I mean, it's pretty bonkers.

595
00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:54,240
It's a bit of a half-cut measure, really, isn't it?

596
00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:55,800
It makes it look like even more of a gimmick

597
00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:56,640
than it was before.

598
00:20:56,640 --> 00:20:57,480
It's kind of stunning.

599
00:20:57,480 --> 00:20:59,880
Is it Sony that's one of the...

600
00:20:59,880 --> 00:21:01,520
It's Universal and Sony, right?

601
00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:03,080
Universal.

602
00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:06,680
That's pretty much, that covers a lot of material.

603
00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:07,520
And you won't know.

604
00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:10,160
You can't tell until you try.

605
00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:13,640
Yeah, and Gadget says it's roughly 40 to 50% of artists.

606
00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:15,840
Unbelievable.

607
00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:17,600
Whereas if they had only made the Zoom

608
00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:21,080
a little bit more compatible with MP3s

609
00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:23,000
and a little more easy to work with MP3s,

610
00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:25,440
I think it would gain a lot more traction.

611
00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:27,840
Hey, if they just supported podcasts.

612
00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:29,000
Yeah, exactly.

613
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:31,040
Well, that's, you know...

614
00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:33,680
They brought this to market so quickly.

615
00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:35,640
They knew from day one that podcasting

616
00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:37,200
was not gonna be in the first release

617
00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:40,440
and they will support it one way or the other, I'm sure.

618
00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:42,240
I mean, I talked to the product manager

619
00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:46,320
for Windows Media Play 11 last year at CES 2006

620
00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:50,040
and they said, yeah, we really wanna have RSS

621
00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:51,960
and we should have RSS, but we don't

622
00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:54,560
and we're gonna try to add it in as quickly as possible.

623
00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:55,680
You know, and I was kind of sitting there

624
00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:57,560
just kind of like, you're kidding me, right?

625
00:21:57,560 --> 00:21:59,640
You know.

626
00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:01,360
By the way, Adam, you might be interested,

627
00:22:01,360 --> 00:22:06,360
there are 100 Pink Zoons out there to go with your jumper.

628
00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:09,720
It's just random whether you'll get one.

629
00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:12,320
Thanks, Leo, always support me.

630
00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:14,320
Although I understand they're available on eBay

631
00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:16,800
if you really have to have it.

632
00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:19,560
I was at Fry's Electronics in Concord,

633
00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:20,920
which of course is kind of a...

634
00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:22,280
Oh, that's a Mecca.

635
00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:25,320
Yeah, that is a Mecca when you're in Northern California

636
00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:27,560
and it was the first time I was able

637
00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:30,360
to get my hands on a Zoon and I was surprised.

638
00:22:30,360 --> 00:22:31,880
Of course, everyone else who's had,

639
00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:33,520
who's tried one knows this,

640
00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:35,920
but I was surprised that that turn wheel doesn't turn.

641
00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:38,120
It's up down left-right.

642
00:22:38,120 --> 00:22:39,760
Yeah, I was like, huh, it's not working right

643
00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:42,320
and then I figured it out.

644
00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:44,080
I like the Zoon in a lot of ways.

645
00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:45,800
I like the Zoon, but I think it's clear now

646
00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:48,840
that this DRM thing is just broken.

647
00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:50,880
Well, I played Room 1 for the first time at CES

648
00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:52,480
this year, I hadn't seen it before.

649
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:54,840
And what amazed me was it was basically like,

650
00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:56,640
like the first iPod.

651
00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:58,440
Yeah, it feels like that, doesn't it?

652
00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:01,760
Kind of big and clunky and yeah, you're right.

653
00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:04,280
The interface is pretty clean though.

654
00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:05,120
I like the UI.

655
00:23:05,120 --> 00:23:07,560
I wish there was the word podcaster in the UI.

656
00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:10,480
So you think, Patrick, that they will,

657
00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:12,240
at some point, release an update to the Zoon

658
00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:13,880
and then suddenly you'll see that word podcaster.

659
00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:14,920
Well, they use the word podcaster?

660
00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:17,240
Well, part of the issue with podcasters

661
00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:20,240
is they don't currently have RSS support

662
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:21,800
in Windows Media Player 11.

663
00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:23,760
And like I said before, that's something

664
00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:26,600
they were aware of being a major flaw

665
00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:29,560
in Windows Media Player 11 12 months ago.

666
00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:32,880
So, WMP11's out, it'd be nice to see them,

667
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:35,080
maybe after Vista ships, they'll finally turn around

668
00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:38,400
and, you know, because without the RSS integration,

669
00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:39,240
you know what I mean?

670
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:41,480
Without the RSS screen or podcatcher.

671
00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:43,120
Hey, Patrick.

672
00:23:43,120 --> 00:23:44,520
You can use juice.

673
00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:47,360
You can use the iPod or, you know, juice.

674
00:23:47,360 --> 00:23:49,480
Well, there's a reason such a huge number.

675
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:52,720
Like, you know, 40% of the people downloading,

676
00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:55,120
like at least 40% of the people downloading,

677
00:23:55,120 --> 00:23:59,400
yeah, for DLTV, use iTunes.

678
00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:00,240
Patrick?

679
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:01,080
Yeah.

680
00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:04,440
Do you think that the reason why Microsoft

681
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:07,520
has been so in limbo about RSS in Media Player

682
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:10,880
and the Zoon is because they were supposed

683
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:15,880
to be using this central RSS repository in Vista

684
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:20,160
that is under the hood and that no longer got support

685
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:21,400
and it's just everyone's confused

686
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:23,200
about where they should be getting it from?

687
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:24,480
That would certainly be a start of it.

688
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:27,600
I also want to say, I was surprised at how fervent

689
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:31,880
they were about, you know, getting RSS built into IE7.

690
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:33,360
You know, as part of their sort of checklist

691
00:24:33,360 --> 00:24:34,960
for things they were two years late

692
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:37,280
on capturing up to Firefox with.

693
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:38,840
It would make sense though if they'd relied

694
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:42,520
upon a central capability in Vista

695
00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:44,400
and it was one more thing yanked at a Vista

696
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:47,040
that, well, all the plans are now on the back burner

697
00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:48,880
because they can't count on it.

698
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:50,160
That's what I think probably happened.

699
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:51,320
Yeah, that makes sense.

700
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:54,160
I would like to see you, Adam,

701
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:58,320
and other new media people really kind of put some pressure.

702
00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:00,680
Certainly, I've just been outspoken on Microsoft

703
00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:03,600
to really make this a priority, to put this into.

704
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:05,640
Let me tell you a little story, Leo.

705
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:11,640
Before Apple integrated podcasting into iTunes,

706
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:14,480
well before that, probably six months,

707
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:17,440
my partner and I, Ron Bloom, we went to Microsoft

708
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:19,720
and we had a number of conversations

709
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:22,640
and we talked about, we actually were willing

710
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:25,560
to put our developers to work,

711
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:28,760
to put a headless version of iPod

712
00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:32,640
or Juicy, if you will, into something

713
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:34,640
that we would install, that would be on Windows.

714
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:38,400
We had all these conversations and at that point,

715
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:40,240
it was like, it's definitely coming in the next release

716
00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:44,440
of Windows Media Player and then we didn't hear anything

717
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:46,440
and then Apple called and said it had

718
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:49,280
the exact same spiel to them and they just did it

719
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:53,000
and they just integrated it and quite honestly,

720
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:54,120
I'm really tired.

721
00:25:54,120 --> 00:25:57,080
Why the hell should I have to push Microsoft?

722
00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:58,280
It's impossible.

723
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:00,120
You can't push that company to do anything.

724
00:26:00,120 --> 00:26:00,960
But I'll tell you why,

725
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:02,760
because 95% of the world's using it.

726
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:06,720
If they don't support it, we're gonna hit a ceiling.

727
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:08,400
I think we've hit the ceiling

728
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:10,440
and we can't go much beyond that

729
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:13,400
until it's kind of on the desktop in Windows.

730
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:14,760
Well, that's true, but you have to look

731
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:19,440
at how many people use iTunes on Windows.

732
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:22,440
It's all very well saying, 95% of people use Windows.

733
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:24,760
How many Windows users are using iPod

734
00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:26,160
and therefore using iTunes?

735
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:29,840
Well, every iPod user on Windows is using iTunes

736
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:31,720
and so is it really a ceiling?

737
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:36,080
We see about 70% of all downloads

738
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:38,800
that are iTunes related coming from the Windows version.

739
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:42,400
It used to be 50-50 and now it's about 70%.

740
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:44,200
I think our numbers are something similar,

741
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:46,120
although it's almost 90% of their listeners

742
00:26:46,120 --> 00:26:48,720
are using iTunes on some platform.

743
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:51,640
I just think we need an ecology here.

744
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:53,520
It's Apple's so dominant and it's not.

745
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:56,520
And again, kudos to Apple for stepping up and doing it.

746
00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:58,040
I'm not complaining about that at all.

747
00:26:58,040 --> 00:26:58,880
I wanna see Microsoft.

748
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:00,680
Well, we're the open source guys outside of,

749
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:05,280
I mean, here's what I think happened where we went wrong.

750
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:08,760
Juice, formerly known as iPod or Lemon.

751
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:10,640
Which you wrote the first version of.

752
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:12,280
Yeah, well, I didn't write any of that code

753
00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:15,080
because I think it was in Python initially.

754
00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:17,880
Well, I wrote an Apple script and then it went to Python

755
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:21,120
and PHP, or it's now it's Python, I think.

756
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:24,080
What I think they did wrong there

757
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:26,600
is they then turned it into a player

758
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:28,640
and that really confuses a lot of people.

759
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:32,200
It was just a utility, which was what my original script was,

760
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:33,800
just hidden and doesn't do anything,

761
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:36,600
but made me notify you of what it's doing.

762
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:37,720
I think that's where they went wrong

763
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:41,120
because creating a player is very, very difficult business.

764
00:27:41,120 --> 00:27:42,120
And honestly.

765
00:27:42,120 --> 00:27:44,360
And you don't need to because there is a player.

766
00:27:44,360 --> 00:27:45,520
There's plenty of players.

767
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:46,800
Yeah, our Windows media player.

768
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:48,960
I think the more it looks like Windows, the better

769
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:50,840
and that's why I'd like to see Microsoft.

770
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:52,120
But you think the open source community

771
00:27:52,120 --> 00:27:54,240
could step up and provide a solution

772
00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:55,960
that people would adopt?

773
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:57,520
Well, one of two ways,

774
00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:02,080
is maybe someone revisits the whole concept of juice

775
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:05,680
and creates a new version that somehow makes it clearer

776
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:10,240
to users and how it integrates with their favorite player.

777
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:11,080
It's an extension.

778
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:11,920
It's a widget.

779
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:14,640
It just does it and then media player takes over.

780
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,680
Yeah, or conversely, the open source community,

781
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:19,880
of course, could easily create a kick-ass player.

782
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:23,160
But what I typically find is that it just misses

783
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:26,080
the beautiful art that Apple cranks out.

784
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:27,760
It just never looks right.

785
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:29,680
There's Songbird, which is pretty gorgeous,

786
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:32,200
but it's hard to get people to download that.

787
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:35,080
I mean, it certainly hasn't hurt Apple.

788
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:37,760
They reported on Wednesday that their first quarter profit

789
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:41,240
was up 78% exceeding Wall Street's expectations,

790
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:44,520
a profit of $1 billion,

791
00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:48,360
with apologies to Dr. Evil.

792
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:50,480
That's a buck 14 a share.

793
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:55,560
iPod sales $21 million in a quarter.

794
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:56,720
That's pretty astounding.

795
00:28:56,720 --> 00:29:00,480
Total iPod sales $90 million since October 2001.

796
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:02,120
That's pretty crazy.

797
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:04,560
Well, do you remember the cassette Walkman's?

798
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:05,400
Yeah, Sony.

799
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:07,600
We've been through this before.

800
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:08,440
You think it'll happen?

801
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:09,280
Same thing will happen?

802
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:10,400
Something else will come along?

803
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:13,480
Or will somebody make a better iPod?

804
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:15,640
Well, I was thinking about this the other day

805
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:18,880
and I remember when you just had to have the Walkman.

806
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:21,160
And if you didn't have the Sony Walkman,

807
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:24,080
you had the cheesy kind and it's exactly...

808
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:25,280
You got the shitty headphone...

809
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:26,120
Oh, sorry, Leo.

810
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:26,960
You got the crappy...

811
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:27,800
Can I say crap?

812
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:29,400
You got the crappy headphone.

813
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:30,960
You got the crappy headphones

814
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:35,960
or you don't have the new Dolby DBX noise reduction.

815
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:39,080
And then something along the way happened

816
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:42,320
and I'm not quite sure what, honestly.

817
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:44,280
Then we tried the portable DVD players

818
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:45,880
that wasn't really too successful

819
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:48,080
because there was too much skipping, typically.

820
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:50,680
So maybe it was just pent-up demand

821
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:52,040
that built over the years.

822
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:53,000
I remember Patrick, though,

823
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:58,000
when we saw the first hard drive MP3 players.

824
00:29:58,080 --> 00:29:58,920
Remember that?

825
00:29:58,920 --> 00:29:59,760
What was it?

826
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:00,600
PJB 100.

827
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:01,440
Yeah.

828
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:02,280
That was pretty exciting.

829
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:03,120
I still have one.

830
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:03,960
You did?

831
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:04,800
It was amazing.

832
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:06,520
There was clearly something special

833
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:09,320
about the idea of having that many songs in a device.

834
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:10,600
It wasn't as small as an iPod,

835
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:12,160
but it was very exciting.

836
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:14,760
Well, it predated, it was before the iPod.

837
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:16,880
Well before, yeah, you don't know, I know.

838
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:18,120
And then there was a company

839
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:19,840
that was doing that with the Indash.

840
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:20,680
Was it Q?

841
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:21,920
What was the name of that?

842
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:23,120
The MP3 car.

843
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:24,200
MP3 car, yeah.

844
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:25,240
Or car MP3.com.

845
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:28,360
I wonder if some of the impetus for Apple's iPhone

846
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:32,440
is not to be there when that time has come,

847
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:35,200
you know, when the iPod reaches end of life

848
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:37,200
to have the next thing.

849
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:38,040
Isn't that something?

850
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:38,880
That's very possible.

851
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:40,360
Is that what Apple's goal is?

852
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:44,800
Maybe it's just having another next thing.

853
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:45,640
Right.

854
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:48,160
That's how Steve's positioning it for sure.

855
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:49,000
It's the next thing.

856
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:51,320
Yeah, when you had the first Motorola flip phones

857
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:55,800
in 1996, 1997, and everyone loved it

858
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:57,320
and it was the coolest thing to have,

859
00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:00,040
then all of a sudden they were completely out of style.

860
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:02,360
It was, you know, they were also breaking

861
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:04,040
because you'd open it, the lid would flip off

862
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:06,640
in the space and stuff.

863
00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:09,120
But now the flip phone is, without a doubt, is back.

864
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:12,200
It's fashion, Leo, it's just fashion.

865
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:13,480
Yeah, that's a very good point.

866
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:15,440
And it's hard to influence fashion.

867
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:18,400
I mean, I don't think Apple,

868
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:20,600
any more than anybody else has a handle on how to do that.

869
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:24,160
Ah, but wait, this is where Steve Jobs is brilliant.

870
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:25,800
You know, he brings in Bono,

871
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:27,760
the epitome of rock and roll in fashion.

872
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:28,600
Right.

873
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:31,000
Whether you, I mean, I don't agree with his fashion sense,

874
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:32,760
but yeah, exactly, very debatable,

875
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:37,480
but you know, coming out with a red iPod

876
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:40,680
for the red brand, that's a huge fashion statement.

877
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:42,600
That doesn't explain why John Mayer

878
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:44,320
keeps showing up at the keynotes though.

879
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:45,160
I don't understand that at all.

880
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:46,600
But that's also Steve's weird.

881
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:48,720
I mean, Steve's been obsessed with rock stars forever.

882
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:49,560
Yes.

883
00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:51,720
He's got this sort of like NPR target audience

884
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:53,400
for all of his presentations these days.

885
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:54,600
That's true. Yeah, that's a good point, yeah.

886
00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:55,680
Dude, he's doing a show.

887
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:58,240
You gotta have different opening and closing acts sometimes,

888
00:31:58,240 --> 00:31:59,440
you know, and you, and you, and sometimes.

889
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:00,520
Kanye West was great.

890
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:01,360
I love that.

891
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:04,200
But John Mayer, I can do without.

892
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:05,040
I don't know, maybe.

893
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:06,640
Well, the question is, I mean, can they, can they get,

894
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:10,040
I mean, the, you know, nobody, nobody at Apple

895
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:12,120
could have known that the iPod was going to explode.

896
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:15,120
No, I mean, if you, if you gave this headline to Apple,

897
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:18,720
you know, five years ago, they would go, huh?

898
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:20,920
You know, what we make most of our money on what?

899
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:21,920
A music player?

900
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:26,320
We are not Apple computer ink, we're just Apple ink, huh?

901
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:28,720
Although Mac sales were up 40% too.

902
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:30,920
I mean, Mac sales did well.

903
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:32,760
Yeah, but it's also, I mean, it's also,

904
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:34,800
it's a big quarter for spending for a lot of people, too.

905
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:35,640
Well, but.

906
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:36,880
For the first time in a while,

907
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:38,480
everybody wasn't looking around going.

908
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:41,200
Mac, Mac sales, Mac sales grew at double

909
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:42,840
the growth of overall PC market.

910
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:45,680
I mean, it was a good quarter for Apple.

911
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:48,400
Yeah, but it'll be curious to see what the next quarter is like.

912
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:49,400
People were waiting for Vista.

913
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:52,200
A lot of pent up demand is coming out.

914
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:53,440
You think they'll, you think they'll be glad

915
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:55,000
they waited for Vista, Patrick?

916
00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:57,760
Oh, I don't know.

917
00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:01,120
Vista's, I, I, you know, Vista's,

918
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:03,600
Vista's better than Windows ME.

919
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:07,960
You know, Walt Mossberg in the journal this week

920
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:09,640
said something that kind of surprised me

921
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:11,400
because lately he's been a bit of an Apple cheerleader.

922
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:13,840
He said, this is the best version of Windows ever.

923
00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:15,080
And frankly, I'd agree with him.

924
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:17,920
I mean, it's very impressive, but it's,

925
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:21,000
and then he goes on to say, but it's still Windows.

926
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:25,000
Cold, but hard, but fair.

927
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:27,000
He said, yeah.

928
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:29,640
He said it's more, I mean, and this is true too.

929
00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:32,040
I mean, and I think Microsoft has to respect its DNA.

930
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:34,200
It's more of Windows.

931
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:37,280
It's not going to be a revolution.

932
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:39,720
Well, part of what's interesting is you kind of take a look

933
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:44,200
and I'm gonna send my apologies out

934
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:46,160
to the entire open source community

935
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:48,760
to sort of prevent a flood of email,

936
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:52,920
but if you step away from Linux and BSD

937
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:54,520
and the other open source operating systems

938
00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:57,520
and you basically look at the two highest profile

939
00:33:57,520 --> 00:33:59,760
operating systems out there, and again,

940
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:01,840
don't send me emails saying more people using Linux

941
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:02,680
than OS 10.

942
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:04,000
I don't care for the purposes of this operation.

943
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:05,040
Is that true?

944
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:06,840
Well, I don't know.

945
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:08,400
Somebody is asserting that, however.

946
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:11,160
I'm certainly going to get email if I say

947
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:12,520
that OS 10 is more popular,

948
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:14,600
but if you look at the way, I mean.

949
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:16,520
Actually, more people are using World of Warcraft

950
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:18,960
as their base operating system than any other.

951
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:20,720
Or at least to occupy most of their day.

952
00:34:20,720 --> 00:34:22,720
And how about that guy that got the levels?

953
00:34:22,720 --> 00:34:24,520
Burning Crusade, baby.

954
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:29,320
I was gonna rename to the Burning Crusade,

955
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:30,560
but then they did that and I couldn't,

956
00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:31,480
so I'm very disappointed.

957
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:34,720
All I'm thinking is like in the era of cyber war,

958
00:34:34,720 --> 00:34:36,000
France is gonna clean up.

959
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:39,520
So we should explain the Burning Crusade,

960
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:40,840
and then we can get back to your,

961
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:43,160
because we've now gone completely down a rat hole,

962
00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:47,760
but the newest, actually the first expansion pack

963
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:48,880
for World of Warcraft is out.

964
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:51,840
Burning Crusade allows you to go to a whole new world

965
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:56,680
and allows you to go from the top 60 to 70 now,

966
00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:57,920
which is one beta.

967
00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:01,680
It's the version of 11 for World of Warcraft users.

968
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:04,040
And I just want you to know I am not a geek.

969
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:05,880
I am a level 12 paladin, baby.

970
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:08,160
And, uh...

971
00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:09,000
Dude, that's Paul.

972
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:09,840
You're a casual player.

973
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:11,720
Somebody did that, somebody did that in,

974
00:35:11,720 --> 00:35:13,040
yeah, I'm a very casual player.

975
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:14,760
Somebody did that, you said in 28 hours

976
00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:16,240
a French fella did that to a 10.

977
00:35:16,240 --> 00:35:17,080
Leveled up 10.

978
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:17,920
From 60 to 70.

979
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:18,760
Unbelievable.

980
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:20,440
And reported the whole thing on YouTube.

981
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:22,120
Is it on YouTube?

982
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:22,960
I'm pretty sure.

983
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:23,960
A 28 hour mirror.

984
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:26,920
Perhaps they fast forwarded through it.

985
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:27,760
All right, so.

986
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:28,600
Just the highlights.

987
00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:29,440
So that's the Burning Crusade rat hole.

988
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:30,680
Let's get back to what you were saying,

989
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:33,280
which was, I forgot something about Linux.

990
00:35:33,720 --> 00:35:35,600
Looking at the way the two major players,

991
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:37,280
like I think in the public spine,

992
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:38,720
there's two major players right now

993
00:35:38,720 --> 00:35:40,120
for personal operating systems.

994
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:42,320
And there's Apple and there's Microsoft.

995
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:43,640
And Apple's, you know, they've always,

996
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:45,560
you know, every three years they wipe off

997
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:47,160
an entire generation of hardware.

998
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:49,640
And now they're basically doing these sort of annual,

999
00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:53,280
you know, little more than annual updates to OS 10.

1000
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:54,640
And, you know, they charge you

1001
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:57,560
what's starting to look more and more like a fair amount.

1002
00:35:57,560 --> 00:35:59,320
If a video game can cost 60 bucks,

1003
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:02,920
an operating system at 120 doesn't sound too bad.

1004
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:05,200
Versus the sort of massive attempts

1005
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:07,440
to rewrite Microsoft's operating system

1006
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:09,600
coupled with a massive cost to upgrade.

1007
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:11,800
What is it like for most people to be at least 100

1008
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:14,160
and many 200 and more, right?

1009
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:16,440
Yeah. To get to ultimate anyway.

1010
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:19,720
Yeah, well, ultimate's fascinating, but, you know,

1011
00:36:19,720 --> 00:36:21,480
I mean, it's, you know, we're, what,

1012
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:22,800
two weeks less than two weeks away

1013
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:24,120
at this point from the release.

1014
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:24,960
That's right.

1015
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:25,800
The consumer version.

1016
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:26,920
Yeah.

1017
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:28,600
Actually, I wonder if anybody's pre-ordering for that.

1018
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:31,320
But it's just, it's such a very different, you know,

1019
00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:32,280
Apple's kind of like, hey,

1020
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:33,120
we've got the, you know,

1021
00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:35,400
we've got the foundation is good.

1022
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:37,040
We've got these open source cats

1023
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:38,560
that are doing great things with the kernel

1024
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:40,000
and we're just gonna keep plugging away.

1025
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:41,000
I'm excited about leopard.

1026
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:43,280
I think it's got a long way off.

1027
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:46,240
Interesting twist, however, to this Apple story.

1028
00:36:46,240 --> 00:36:49,320
You know, that all the Core 2 Macs

1029
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:51,840
have come with, it turns out,

1030
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:54,040
airport cards that could do 802.11

1031
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:57,680
and it does require a firmware patch

1032
00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:00,320
and Apple's claiming that it's Sarbanes Oxley

1033
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:02,480
that's making them charge a buck 99.

1034
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:03,960
It's some weird accounting rule

1035
00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:06,920
that since they've already booked the revenue

1036
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:08,880
from selling these machines,

1037
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:09,920
if they're going to upgrade,

1038
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:11,000
I don't buy this.

1039
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:11,840
Anybody buy this,

1040
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:13,400
if you're gonna upgrade the capabilities of the machine,

1041
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:14,800
they have to charge you a buck 99.

1042
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:16,000
What?

1043
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:16,840
Well, I can't support it.

1044
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:18,800
I think it's true.

1045
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:20,440
Adam, did you study accounting in school?

1046
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:22,160
Cause we need some help here.

1047
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:24,480
Well, no, but I did run my own public company.

1048
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:27,160
So, you know, bad socks.

1049
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:30,000
Well, this is before socks.

1050
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:32,440
I mean, Sarbanes Oxley has been a class weird.

1051
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:33,280
Yeah.

1052
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:35,520
As somebody, like one of my best friends is an accountant,

1053
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:37,840
if you wanna hear him sort of go off in strange directions,

1054
00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:38,920
just bring up socks.

1055
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:40,520
This was the U.S. law that came in

1056
00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:42,120
after the Enron scandal,

1057
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:45,440
to, well, one hoped to add transparency

1058
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:46,920
and accounting.

1059
00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:50,560
Well, it used to be much easier to indeed,

1060
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:53,920
if you, so from what I understand of it,

1061
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:55,720
and I certainly don't want to be an expert

1062
00:37:55,720 --> 00:37:57,440
or know everything about it,

1063
00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:00,200
they did recognize the revenue from this in advance,

1064
00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:02,560
which of course is something that props up your 10 Q

1065
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:04,440
and your quarterly numbers.

1066
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:07,000
And I think it used to be a lot easier

1067
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:10,280
to explain that away later

1068
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:12,400
without charging the customer for it.

1069
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:13,240
I understand.

1070
00:38:13,240 --> 00:38:15,360
When I download an update to software for free,

1071
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:17,560
doesn't that add value to the software

1072
00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:19,760
and wasn't that revenue already recognized?

1073
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:21,200
I'm not, I don't, I don't get it.

1074
00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:22,880
Well, I think this is,

1075
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:24,360
I think this is something to follow

1076
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:27,000
because if this is a trend,

1077
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:29,960
then it may very well be that you have to,

1078
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:31,200
you know, pay for this stuff

1079
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:33,440
where it has to be accounted for some way

1080
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:36,040
directly with the consumer instead of, you know,

1081
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:38,000
between balance sheets within a corporation.

1082
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:39,320
That could be pretty messed up.

1083
00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:41,720
So I do have my eye on this one.

1084
00:38:41,720 --> 00:38:43,520
See that's actually got a pretty good article

1085
00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:44,520
written up on this.

1086
00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:47,600
And they're saying basically this was a choice

1087
00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:49,000
of how to book the revenue.

1088
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:51,880
And they're probably a little bit conservative

1089
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:53,160
given the option scandal.

1090
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:54,840
The SEC is looking closely at them.

1091
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:57,400
This might be a good time to tow the line.

1092
00:38:57,400 --> 00:38:59,080
Here's another thought.

1093
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:01,160
Is it possible this is a licensing issue

1094
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:03,360
that if you, you know, they put something in

1095
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:04,840
that they license.

1096
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:05,680
They have to pay for.

1097
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:08,800
Yeah, they have to pay for per user essentially

1098
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:09,640
if it's activated.

1099
00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:10,480
Could it be that?

1100
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:12,120
It does seem a rather token amount.

1101
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:15,200
I mean, Apple probably will have some revenue from this

1102
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:16,640
but not a significant amount.

1103
00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:19,240
I'll pay it, it's a buck 99.

1104
00:39:19,240 --> 00:39:22,160
I mean, I'll pay it to get in in my MacBook Pro

1105
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:24,440
but it just, it's an odd thing to do.

1106
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:25,640
The good news is the current,

1107
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:27,680
the new U.S. Congress is apparently

1108
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:29,320
reevaluating Sarbanes-Oxley.

1109
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:31,520
So maybe this is something that...

1110
00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:35,320
Well, we're in deep Kimche with Sarbanes-Oxley.

1111
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:36,760
Another word for crap Leo.

1112
00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:40,720
No, I mean, this is really horrible.

1113
00:39:40,720 --> 00:39:43,760
All the, the IPO market has gone overseas.

1114
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:46,120
It's in London is thriving now

1115
00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:47,600
and just look at the, you know, the dollars.

1116
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:49,120
Is that what happened to IPO?

1117
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:51,640
We haven't had an IPO in years.

1118
00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:53,760
Certainly no tech IPO in years.

1119
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:55,040
Nobody wants to do it.

1120
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:55,880
An alternative.

1121
00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:57,680
Even GoDaddy came right up to the line

1122
00:39:57,680 --> 00:39:59,640
and said, whoa, and backed off.

1123
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:00,480
Yep.

1124
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:02,400
And that's cause of socks.

1125
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:03,240
Oh, absolutely.

1126
00:40:03,240 --> 00:40:04,080
Very interesting.

1127
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:06,120
Well, it sounds like a bad law if it's doing.

1128
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:08,160
While we're on the topic of...

1129
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:09,000
Bad laws?

1130
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:11,440
Sort of, you know, I was gonna go with

1131
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:14,560
the transmission and sort of data rates and things.

1132
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:16,520
Well, I was absolutely amazed to see this month

1133
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:18,680
that the latest issue of Playboy

1134
00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:21,880
has got a two page editorial on net neutrality,

1135
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:24,480
FCC and bandwidth utilization.

1136
00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:26,080
Well, I only read it for the pictures,

1137
00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:27,600
so I must have missed that.

1138
00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:30,000
Well, the article was written three months ago.

1139
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:31,160
Has it changed now?

1140
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:34,680
Well, no, it's just, that's their lead time

1141
00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:36,080
is three months.

1142
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:36,920
Oh, I see.

1143
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:39,320
So it was a big story three months ago.

1144
00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:40,160
Yep.

1145
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:42,400
I mean, I thought it was amazing that the tech community

1146
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:44,240
has done such a great job of making

1147
00:40:44,240 --> 00:40:45,480
such a who heart out of this

1148
00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:46,800
that it can reach something, you know,

1149
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:49,200
as completely mainstream as Playboy.

1150
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:51,080
Well, I don't know if it was the tech community

1151
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:52,640
so much as the content community

1152
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:54,920
that made such a huge noise about it.

1153
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:56,200
I thought it was Trisha Helfer.

1154
00:40:56,200 --> 00:41:00,680
Playboy makes a lot of money online.

1155
00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:01,520
You know what I mean?

1156
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:02,440
It's certainly in their, yeah,

1157
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:04,320
absolutely in their interest to keep an eye on it.

1158
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:05,160
Yeah.

1159
00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:06,840
They certainly took their time and sort of,

1160
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:08,480
you know, I mean, what was the gist of the,

1161
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:10,600
what was the gist of the article?

1162
00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:13,640
It was just basically saying how absolutely useless

1163
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:15,720
the FCC was, how it was in the grasp

1164
00:41:15,720 --> 00:41:17,680
of all the big content companies

1165
00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:18,640
and that it was giving, you know,

1166
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:21,000
it was trying to stiff users effectively.

1167
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:22,720
By selling out to all these people

1168
00:41:22,720 --> 00:41:25,920
and that the FCC had gone, had lost its remit

1169
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:27,600
of public service and they basically become

1170
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:29,360
a sort of business evangelist.

1171
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:33,000
Which is, well, I think this whole net neutrality

1172
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:35,840
debate has been a very feudal one.

1173
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:37,880
And I don't, I'm not even sure I understand

1174
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:39,560
what people are trying to communicate

1175
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:41,360
with net neutrality, nor do I believe

1176
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:44,640
that these people understand what networking is

1177
00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:46,280
and what it costs to make a network

1178
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:48,360
and to maintain it and how that's utilized.

1179
00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:49,760
You say these people, who do you mean?

1180
00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:51,680
Do you mean the Congress or do you mean?

1181
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:54,160
No, everybody who was yelling and screaming

1182
00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:56,000
about net neutrality.

1183
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:59,760
You think that, so you're in the AT&T court on this one.

1184
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:04,760
No, I'm not necessarily in either court,

1185
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:08,000
but I do know a lot about networking

1186
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:12,040
and when you see what it, look, it's all about money.

1187
00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:14,160
It's very expensive to set up a network

1188
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:15,840
and if you have lots of traffic,

1189
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:18,200
that means more switches, bigger switches,

1190
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:20,220
that comes at a huge cost.

1191
00:42:20,220 --> 00:42:25,220
So I'm not necessarily against ISPs and telcos

1192
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:29,720
charging the content providers for that distribution.

1193
00:42:29,720 --> 00:42:33,040
Oh, but it sounds like then you've got this kind of toll road,

1194
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:35,680
this gerrymandered network where every time

1195
00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:38,160
you wanna go somewhere, you've gotta pay a little fee

1196
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:39,600
because we've got toll roads everywhere.

1197
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:40,440
Is that what we want?

1198
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:44,200
I'm also not worried about the sheer force

1199
00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:47,840
of human beings to get something

1200
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:51,080
if they want it, no matter if they have to beg,

1201
00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:52,880
steal, or borrow to get it.

1202
00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:54,200
Mostly.

1203
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:56,040
There will be alternatives,

1204
00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:58,360
but we already have a toll road.

1205
00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:00,120
I pay for bandwidth going out

1206
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:01,480
and you pay for bandwidth coming in.

1207
00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:02,880
The toll road's already there.

1208
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:04,400
There's nothing new here.

1209
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:05,240
Yeah, but let's not add more.

1210
00:43:05,240 --> 00:43:07,640
The AT&T, the toll road needs to be paid for.

1211
00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:10,800
Although it's our, but we're paying for it now

1212
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:14,040
and it's a variable cost and it's competition.

1213
00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:15,840
Adam, we're arguing on the same side.

1214
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:19,440
AT&T basically claims that they can't deliver.

1215
00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:22,440
They can't deliver the download.

1216
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:26,160
Ironically, they've kind of backed off on this.

1217
00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:27,520
They said, we'll never do that.

1218
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:30,680
We didn't mean that and we don't wanna do it.

1219
00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:31,920
Oh, I think they will, Leo.

1220
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:33,520
I think they will most definitely do it,

1221
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:36,840
but they won't do it to people

1222
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:41,840
who are providing media and other content

1223
00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:44,680
peer to peer or one to few

1224
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:46,600
or even one to many.

1225
00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:51,600
It'll really come companies like YouTube, PodShow, Google,

1226
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:53,640
a Tweet may have to deal with that as well

1227
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:55,400
because you're just pushing tremendous amounts

1228
00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:57,960
of bandwidth through their system.

1229
00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:00,440
So basically, let me see if I got this straight at them.

1230
00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:03,320
I'm paying Comcast a bloody fortune

1231
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:05,080
for my connectivity,

1232
00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:07,120
which I can't actually reach

1233
00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:08,800
with any single provider

1234
00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:10,520
that can actually saturate that connection

1235
00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:12,960
because I don't deserve to get the bandwidth

1236
00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:14,160
I think I'm paying for.

1237
00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:16,520
Well, I don't think anyone has said

1238
00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:18,560
it's exactly going to be like that.

1239
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:22,080
I think that there's been talk of prioritization packets.

1240
00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:26,680
No, not reach and have a different priority

1241
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:28,520
or two different things.

1242
00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:32,120
I think that there will definitely be levels

1243
00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:35,240
of the so-called toll road

1244
00:44:35,240 --> 00:44:37,840
that will depend upon amount of media,

1245
00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:40,240
quality of media and consistency

1246
00:44:40,240 --> 00:44:41,600
that is being sent down the pipe.

1247
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:43,600
I don't think anyone's going to get cut off

1248
00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:45,480
and I don't think the consumer,

1249
00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:48,200
and we already have all kinds of restrictions

1250
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:52,120
on running servers on your ISP connections.

1251
00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:54,120
This has been around for a long, long time.

1252
00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:56,680
I'm talking about getting the download speed

1253
00:44:56,680 --> 00:44:58,160
I think I'm paying for.

1254
00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:00,680
Well, I think that's a different issue.

1255
00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:04,040
We have thousands of users that find themselves

1256
00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:07,640
dealing with packet shaping issues on the ISP level.

1257
00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:09,320
But this is a misnomer

1258
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:13,240
because it's been marketed incorrectly

1259
00:45:13,240 --> 00:45:14,720
or maybe very correctly.

1260
00:45:14,720 --> 00:45:17,640
When someone sells you an eight-megabit connection

1261
00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:21,960
and you see a video coming down at two megabits per second,

1262
00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:23,480
there's a lot of stuff in the middle

1263
00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:26,200
that that eight-megabit connection has no control over.

1264
00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:28,200
I'm not talking about eight megabits to two megabits.

1265
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:30,000
I'm talking about people being

1266
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:31,840
throttled to 20 or 50k.

1267
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:35,480
We were seeing 500k to a megabit

1268
00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:36,560
suddenly finding themselves

1269
00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:38,080
and not because they've hit a monthly cap

1270
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:39,680
and they amounted a lot of download.

1271
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:42,000
The people universally suddenly can't get it.

1272
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:43,880
Downloads paid from certain sites higher.

1273
00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:46,160
Well, this is already happening.

1274
00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:47,640
This is already happening

1275
00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:50,000
because their networks can't handle the amount of traffic.

1276
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:53,120
Is this the old argument though

1277
00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:56,800
that we can't sustain flat rate pricing on data.

1278
00:45:56,800 --> 00:45:59,440
We've got to go back to per-bit pricing.

1279
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:03,040
I mean, isn't that something people would like to do too?

1280
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:05,160
Wouldn't that solve the issue?

1281
00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:06,960
Customers want flat rate.

1282
00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:08,960
Just look at cell phone plans.

1283
00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:11,200
When networking started,

1284
00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:14,640
we came up with this whole idea of a peering agreement

1285
00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:16,800
precisely because the telcos

1286
00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:18,080
didn't really have the capability

1287
00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:19,840
or the horsepower at the time

1288
00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:21,680
to be able to calculate every bit

1289
00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:22,840
that passed through their routers

1290
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:23,760
and who would belong to

1291
00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:27,800
like they were used to doing with telephone minutes

1292
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:29,440
because there's something at the end of every month

1293
00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:30,360
that's called settlement

1294
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:32,920
and all the telcos exchange all their records

1295
00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:34,120
and hey, I paid you.

1296
00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:35,280
I sent this much your way.

1297
00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:37,200
I sent this much my way.

1298
00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:38,920
We're gonna either wash it out

1299
00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:41,520
or you owe me money or I owe you money

1300
00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:45,040
and these peering agreements started basically by saying,

1301
00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:46,040
look, we can't count it

1302
00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:48,560
but we can't see exactly what's coming through you

1303
00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:49,800
or is directed towards you

1304
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:52,160
but it's kind of the same amount so we're peers.

1305
00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:54,840
And so yes, I think the only way to do it

1306
00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:57,880
is to go back to actual packet counting.

1307
00:46:57,880 --> 00:46:58,720
At a cost.

1308
00:46:58,720 --> 00:47:00,440
I mean, that means all of a sudden

1309
00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:02,080
you're putting switches and routers everywhere.

1310
00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:03,000
You're measuring everything.

1311
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:05,320
There's some bottlenecking.

1312
00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:06,320
At the end of the day though,

1313
00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:08,520
I think the consumer will win big time.

1314
00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:10,040
I think exactly the opposite.

1315
00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:13,800
The consumer at home is going to get fantastic throughput

1316
00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:15,120
from anything they want.

1317
00:47:16,240 --> 00:47:17,320
Well, you know, it's funny.

1318
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:18,560
If they're willing to pay for it

1319
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:19,920
and their ISP is willing to pay for it.

1320
00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:21,120
Well, here's a, I mean,

1321
00:47:21,120 --> 00:47:23,520
we have listeners in Sweden who continually tell me,

1322
00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:26,640
oh, hey, we get 100 megabit downloads

1323
00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:27,840
for 20 bucks a month.

1324
00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:30,040
Why is it so cheap there?

1325
00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:31,720
It's subsidized by the government.

1326
00:47:31,720 --> 00:47:33,480
The government's paying for it.

1327
00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:34,800
Is that what you wanted, Will?

1328
00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:35,640
Thank you.

1329
00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:36,480
Sure.

1330
00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:38,920
And I think our government should pitch in too.

1331
00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:41,480
In fact, I believe that's part of the net neutrality debate

1332
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:43,960
is that there was lots of money allocated

1333
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:45,920
towards the telcos years ago

1334
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:47,760
and they were supposed to build out their networks

1335
00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:48,680
and they didn't really do it.

1336
00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:52,840
And I think that's where a lot of anger stems from.

1337
00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:54,400
But yeah, this is just important to me

1338
00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:57,280
as the electricity grid or the water network.

1339
00:47:57,280 --> 00:48:00,280
Why wouldn't the government at least have some involvement

1340
00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:02,280
or set some type of regulation?

1341
00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:04,040
I'm not against that.

1342
00:48:04,040 --> 00:48:06,720
And just in case you think this is a dead issue,

1343
00:48:06,720 --> 00:48:08,600
the new Congress has in fact reintroduced

1344
00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:09,840
a net neutrality bill,

1345
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:12,760
a pro-net neutrality bill, I might add,

1346
00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:14,080
and as long as we're talking about it.

1347
00:48:14,080 --> 00:48:16,400
Which is just pandering towards constituents

1348
00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:18,200
because they don't know what the hell they're talking about.

1349
00:48:18,200 --> 00:48:20,000
It's a series of tubes.

1350
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:23,360
So you're saying it's us that's dumb

1351
00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:25,520
and Ted Stevens knew what he was talking about.

1352
00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:26,840
He was right on the money, man.

1353
00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:29,320
He sent the truck my way just this morning.

1354
00:48:29,360 --> 00:48:30,200
I got the internet.

1355
00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:32,360
I won't work out on the smoking.

1356
00:48:32,360 --> 00:48:33,520
There's a new bill actually.

1357
00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:35,800
As long as we're talking about Congress,

1358
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:38,360
the Senate introduced a bill called the Platform,

1359
00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:40,080
I should say the US Senate,

1360
00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:42,320
introduced a bill called the Platform Equality and Remedies

1361
00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:43,800
for Rights Holders in Music Act,

1362
00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:46,560
a nice acronym that stands for Perform.

1363
00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:47,960
This is a bill that died,

1364
00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:51,040
an RIA bill that died last year.

1365
00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:52,960
It would require content protection

1366
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:54,880
on all satellite radio broadcasts.

1367
00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:56,000
You might be interested in this, Adam,

1368
00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:57,600
since you do stuff on Sirius,

1369
00:48:57,640 --> 00:49:00,640
along with cable and internet broadcasts.

1370
00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:02,560
Broadcasters would be required to use

1371
00:49:02,560 --> 00:49:06,440
reasonably available and economically reasonable technology

1372
00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:09,000
to prevent music theft.

1373
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:12,040
Another misunderstood conversation

1374
00:49:12,040 --> 00:49:15,000
that has produced a knee-jerk reaction.

1375
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:17,640
Well, you've done a lot for PodSafe music

1376
00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:20,040
with your PodSafe network.

1377
00:49:20,040 --> 00:49:21,640
Exactly, that's the point.

1378
00:49:21,640 --> 00:49:23,760
And that's what this is about.

1379
00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:25,960
It's about licensing and money.

1380
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:29,760
There's huge forces at work who make money

1381
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:32,880
based upon the reuse of content,

1382
00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:35,520
musical works, the publishing predominantly,

1383
00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:38,720
but also the duplication rights.

1384
00:49:38,720 --> 00:49:41,160
And it's always been a nice little game.

1385
00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:43,360
You have the 6,000 radio stations,

1386
00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:44,600
they all have to pay X amount

1387
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:46,840
based upon how many listeners they have.

1388
00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:48,520
And the way that money is divided

1389
00:49:48,520 --> 00:49:51,360
within the performing rights societies,

1390
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:55,400
ASCAP BMI has always been a very fuzzy black box,

1391
00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:57,000
let the people who want to make money

1392
00:49:57,000 --> 00:49:57,960
are making the money.

1393
00:49:57,960 --> 00:50:02,040
And what the PodSafe music revolution did is said,

1394
00:50:02,040 --> 00:50:05,520
hey, that's fine, we want your stuff protected

1395
00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:08,200
and we don't necessarily believe in DRM.

1396
00:50:08,200 --> 00:50:13,200
So trust your co-license agreement partners

1397
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:17,240
on this, mainly podcasters, and give your stuff for free.

1398
00:50:17,240 --> 00:50:20,040
And let them play it and we'll tell you

1399
00:50:20,040 --> 00:50:22,040
when it was played and then you can go

1400
00:50:22,040 --> 00:50:25,120
and build your business and everything's fair.

1401
00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:27,000
There's no money exchanging hands though.

1402
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:30,080
So it's only about licensure?

1403
00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:32,960
It's merely just so that they know what's going on.

1404
00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:34,600
I mean, they're getting value in terms

1405
00:50:34,600 --> 00:50:35,600
of promotional value.

1406
00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:42,400
They're getting huge value and not just financial value,

1407
00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:45,760
but there is a tremendous social reward.

1408
00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:48,200
It's something very, if you got a recommendation

1409
00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:50,480
like, oh, you were looking for the Rolling Stones,

1410
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:52,200
you might want to check out Brother Love

1411
00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:54,280
and I'd listen to a song

1412
00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:55,960
and maybe I'd buy a CD,

1413
00:50:55,960 --> 00:51:00,960
but when the creator of a product like a song

1414
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:02,640
is played on a show,

1415
00:51:02,640 --> 00:51:05,360
basically someone who's telling his thousand friends

1416
00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:07,760
or more, hey, check this out.

1417
00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:09,040
I really love this guy.

1418
00:51:09,040 --> 00:51:10,200
In fact, I love it so much

1419
00:51:10,200 --> 00:51:12,840
and I'm gonna play it back to back five times.

1420
00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:14,520
That is a great feeling.

1421
00:51:14,520 --> 00:51:17,120
That's what motivates people, I think, more than money

1422
00:51:17,120 --> 00:51:20,440
and from one can, typically, you can create the other.

1423
00:51:20,440 --> 00:51:22,000
Brother Love's very happy.

1424
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:23,800
I know he's got a lot of notoriety now

1425
00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:26,160
and it's done a great thing for him, I think.

1426
00:51:26,160 --> 00:51:27,760
Hey, Will, you had some stories

1427
00:51:27,760 --> 00:51:28,840
that you wanted to bring up.

1428
00:51:28,840 --> 00:51:30,800
Have we covered them or I'm looking for them

1429
00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:32,640
and I don't see them here, what?

1430
00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:35,280
I put them in the four-tweet kind of bucket.

1431
00:51:35,280 --> 00:51:36,120
Ah, they're in four-tweet?

1432
00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:38,360
Well, bring them up, tell me what you would like to say.

1433
00:51:38,360 --> 00:51:39,440
I can't remember what it is, man.

1434
00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:40,280
All right, I'll have to,

1435
00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:42,120
I'm still looking at Tricia Helfer's layout

1436
00:51:42,120 --> 00:51:47,120
and Playboy, so let me load delicious speaking up.

1437
00:51:47,680 --> 00:51:49,400
Which was shot three years ago.

1438
00:51:49,400 --> 00:51:50,600
Was it really?

1439
00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:51,760
Of course.

1440
00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:52,640
Took forever.

1441
00:51:52,640 --> 00:51:55,320
Now that she's a star on Battlestar Galactica.

1442
00:51:56,240 --> 00:51:58,200
Poor kid.

1443
00:51:58,200 --> 00:52:00,900
Apple says Cisco lawsuit is silly.

1444
00:52:02,040 --> 00:52:05,480
Apple actually has an interesting loophole.

1445
00:52:05,480 --> 00:52:08,520
Apparently Cisco held that trademark for iPhone

1446
00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:10,280
for six years before they released an iPhone

1447
00:52:10,280 --> 00:52:14,200
just before Apple did, hoping to revive the trademark.

1448
00:52:14,200 --> 00:52:15,960
But the patent and trade office says

1449
00:52:15,960 --> 00:52:18,680
over nine different organizations

1450
00:52:18,680 --> 00:52:21,400
have claimed ownership over the iPhone patents.

1451
00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:22,840
Yeah, that's what Apple said as well.

1452
00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:24,720
So I think Apple's gonna get away with it

1453
00:52:24,720 --> 00:52:27,160
and Cisco's trademark is gonna look like

1454
00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:29,200
it's not gonna get it because they didn't use it

1455
00:52:29,200 --> 00:52:30,040
for too long.

1456
00:52:30,040 --> 00:52:30,880
They didn't use it.

1457
00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:31,720
People are using it in the meantime.

1458
00:52:31,720 --> 00:52:33,080
They didn't use it.

1459
00:52:33,080 --> 00:52:36,280
And also, there's a great video on YouTube

1460
00:52:36,280 --> 00:52:40,520
of Steve Bulma, Microsoft being asked about the iPhone

1461
00:52:40,520 --> 00:52:42,000
and he puts on this really stupid,

1462
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:45,360
like affected kind of snort, laugh, hybrid

1463
00:52:45,360 --> 00:52:46,880
and looks like complete idiot.

1464
00:52:48,080 --> 00:52:50,280
It really looks like he's actually quite nervous

1465
00:52:50,280 --> 00:52:52,560
about the iPhone and is doing his best

1466
00:52:52,560 --> 00:52:56,520
to make it not seem so, yes?

1467
00:52:56,520 --> 00:52:57,520
It's pretty hilarious.

1468
00:52:57,520 --> 00:52:59,240
Should I play a little bit of that?

1469
00:52:59,240 --> 00:53:00,080
Yeah, go ahead.

1470
00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:02,280
Steve, let me ask you about the iPhone

1471
00:53:02,280 --> 00:53:04,280
and the Zoom, if I may.

1472
00:53:04,280 --> 00:53:06,080
Zoom was getting some traction

1473
00:53:06,080 --> 00:53:08,360
and Steve Jobs goes to Macworld

1474
00:53:08,360 --> 00:53:10,320
and he pulls out this iPhone.

1475
00:53:10,320 --> 00:53:12,760
What was your first reaction when you saw that?

1476
00:53:13,640 --> 00:53:17,160
$500 fully subsidized with a plan.

1477
00:53:17,160 --> 00:53:20,080
I said that is the most expensive phone in the world

1478
00:53:20,080 --> 00:53:22,200
and it doesn't appeal to business customers

1479
00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:23,960
because it doesn't have a keyboard.

1480
00:53:23,960 --> 00:53:25,360
He almost sounds like he's crying.

1481
00:53:25,360 --> 00:53:26,200
I'll be honest with you.

1482
00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:30,080
He doesn't sound too happy about that.

1483
00:53:31,080 --> 00:53:33,520
He says something really interesting there,

1484
00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:34,520
though, about the keyboard,

1485
00:53:34,520 --> 00:53:37,280
which I'm very interested in as well.

1486
00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:39,560
I have not held an iPhone.

1487
00:53:39,560 --> 00:53:42,960
I do have a Nokia N800 internet tablet.

1488
00:53:42,960 --> 00:53:44,040
You love that thing.

1489
00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:45,800
You've been raving about that thing.

1490
00:53:45,800 --> 00:53:48,520
Yeah, and at first I thought this on-screen keyboard

1491
00:53:48,520 --> 00:53:52,440
was really no good because you have no tactile response,

1492
00:53:52,440 --> 00:53:56,520
but I forced myself to relearn

1493
00:53:56,520 --> 00:53:59,240
how to use a different type of keyboard.

1494
00:53:59,240 --> 00:54:01,560
And I have to say, it's kind of growing on me

1495
00:54:01,560 --> 00:54:05,080
and to hear Balmer laugh like that,

1496
00:54:05,080 --> 00:54:06,920
I think he has to be careful.

1497
00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:10,480
Well, he's also, I mean, that's classic Balmer kind of redirect.

1498
00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:11,320
I mean.

1499
00:54:11,320 --> 00:54:12,160
Well, but he makes a point.

1500
00:54:12,160 --> 00:54:13,080
It's very expensive.

1501
00:54:13,080 --> 00:54:14,040
There is no keyboard.

1502
00:54:14,040 --> 00:54:17,240
Everybody's kind of conditioned to the trio BlackBerry model

1503
00:54:17,240 --> 00:54:18,480
where you have a little keyboard.

1504
00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:20,440
Although Jobs addressed that in his keynote,

1505
00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:22,760
said, we don't think this is a good idea.

1506
00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:25,120
I did talk to David Pogue of the New York Times

1507
00:54:25,120 --> 00:54:26,960
who actually typed on the thing for about 20 minutes

1508
00:54:26,960 --> 00:54:29,080
and said it's very hard to type on.

1509
00:54:29,080 --> 00:54:31,200
Yeah, but it takes a lot longer than 20 minutes

1510
00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:32,040
to get used to it.

1511
00:54:32,040 --> 00:54:33,440
I'm a BlackBerry fiend.

1512
00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:35,200
I actually gave that up for my Nokia,

1513
00:54:35,200 --> 00:54:37,600
what is it, E61, which has,

1514
00:54:37,600 --> 00:54:39,080
it does have a regular keyboard,

1515
00:54:39,080 --> 00:54:44,080
but it's not in the patented fan configuration.

1516
00:54:45,600 --> 00:54:47,320
So that took me a little while to learn.

1517
00:54:47,320 --> 00:54:51,080
And I don't know, I was pretty much against the whole

1518
00:54:51,080 --> 00:54:54,400
on-screen keyboard and user interface.

1519
00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:56,600
I'm starting to back out a little bit.

1520
00:54:56,600 --> 00:54:59,960
Did you have a 770 or is this 800 that you're first in?

1521
00:54:59,960 --> 00:55:00,800
No, I did not.

1522
00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:03,320
This is, I would never buy anything like that.

1523
00:55:03,320 --> 00:55:07,120
Nokia sent me this and I was happy to try it out

1524
00:55:07,120 --> 00:55:09,280
and I'm quite enamored with what it does.

1525
00:55:09,280 --> 00:55:10,120
It's basically, I think.

1526
00:55:10,120 --> 00:55:10,960
It's very small.

1527
00:55:10,960 --> 00:55:12,080
It's almost a little tablet,

1528
00:55:12,080 --> 00:55:13,600
but it's not a full-sized tablet.

1529
00:55:13,600 --> 00:55:14,880
It's a small screen.

1530
00:55:14,880 --> 00:55:17,000
It's a small screen, but what's nice about it,

1531
00:55:17,000 --> 00:55:17,840
well, there's two things.

1532
00:55:17,840 --> 00:55:20,280
One is it doesn't have a phone integrated,

1533
00:55:20,280 --> 00:55:22,920
but it communicates with your phone through Bluetooth

1534
00:55:22,920 --> 00:55:26,200
so you can get a wireless data connection.

1535
00:55:26,200 --> 00:55:28,880
It does all the remembering of your Wi-Fi points

1536
00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:30,160
and switches automatically.

1537
00:55:30,160 --> 00:55:32,200
But the most interesting thing about it,

1538
00:55:32,200 --> 00:55:33,600
and I don't hear anyone, you know,

1539
00:55:33,600 --> 00:55:37,480
this whole conversation about iPhone being open or closed,

1540
00:55:37,480 --> 00:55:38,560
the Nokia is open.

1541
00:55:38,560 --> 00:55:40,200
It's Linux.

1542
00:55:40,200 --> 00:55:41,880
It's built on Debian, I think,

1543
00:55:41,880 --> 00:55:43,480
Debian flavor of Linux.

1544
00:55:43,480 --> 00:55:46,000
And there's an active developer community

1545
00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:47,360
creating applications for it.

1546
00:55:47,360 --> 00:55:49,960
It's got GPS in the chip.

1547
00:55:49,960 --> 00:55:52,240
It's even got radio in the chip.

1548
00:55:52,240 --> 00:55:53,480
It's got an onboard camera.

1549
00:55:53,480 --> 00:55:54,840
It's got all the things there.

1550
00:55:54,840 --> 00:55:56,840
And it's immensely slow, though.

1551
00:55:56,840 --> 00:55:58,520
No, no, not at all.

1552
00:55:58,520 --> 00:56:00,040
It's as bad as it is at X-Scale,

1553
00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:00,880
what's in there?

1554
00:56:00,880 --> 00:56:03,240
Both generations, and it just seems,

1555
00:56:03,240 --> 00:56:06,040
it takes an incredible amount of patience

1556
00:56:06,040 --> 00:56:08,400
to wait for even basic web pages to load.

1557
00:56:08,400 --> 00:56:10,720
Really, on the N800?

1558
00:56:10,720 --> 00:56:11,560
Yeah.

1559
00:56:11,560 --> 00:56:13,800
Oh, no, that hasn't bothered me at all.

1560
00:56:13,800 --> 00:56:15,280
No, I mean, I have to say,

1561
00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:16,600
what do you use it for?

1562
00:56:16,600 --> 00:56:18,600
Is it for going about town?

1563
00:56:18,600 --> 00:56:19,440
Yeah, good question.

1564
00:56:19,440 --> 00:56:23,000
Now, I use it for basically for Gmail.

1565
00:56:23,000 --> 00:56:25,560
And if I just want to look at something,

1566
00:56:25,560 --> 00:56:27,280
I download podcasts with it

1567
00:56:27,280 --> 00:56:29,080
and listen to them on the device.

1568
00:56:29,080 --> 00:56:30,800
But I will say I use the,

1569
00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:33,040
even though it has a full-functioning Opera

1570
00:56:33,040 --> 00:56:36,600
browser inside, which supports Flash 7,

1571
00:56:36,600 --> 00:56:40,040
which is also quite nice for a Linux-based device.

1572
00:56:41,040 --> 00:56:46,040
I use Gmail Mobile, which, of course,

1573
00:56:46,040 --> 00:56:48,080
loads really fast and just works.

1574
00:56:48,080 --> 00:56:50,600
But you can drag the screen around with your fingers.

1575
00:56:50,600 --> 00:56:52,320
You don't have to necessarily use scroll bars.

1576
00:56:52,320 --> 00:56:55,480
You can just tap, hold, and move a webpage left, right,

1577
00:56:55,480 --> 00:56:57,640
and up, down in any direction you want.

1578
00:56:57,640 --> 00:56:58,480
Oh, that's nice.

1579
00:56:58,480 --> 00:57:00,120
That's kind of like the iPhone, really.

1580
00:57:00,120 --> 00:57:02,200
So you're really using your hands

1581
00:57:02,200 --> 00:57:03,920
to do more with the interface

1582
00:57:03,920 --> 00:57:05,760
than a mouse click and point.

1583
00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:07,280
It's interesting, and I think there

1584
00:57:07,280 --> 00:57:09,240
is something to explore there.

1585
00:57:09,240 --> 00:57:10,680
I think that's one of the things people

1586
00:57:10,680 --> 00:57:12,680
were very interested in with the iPhone

1587
00:57:12,680 --> 00:57:14,320
and the Safari browser on the iPhone.

1588
00:57:14,320 --> 00:57:15,800
And maybe we are entering a new world

1589
00:57:15,800 --> 00:57:19,280
of touch-screen user interfaces.

1590
00:57:19,280 --> 00:57:22,080
Maybe there's some progress to be made there.

1591
00:57:22,080 --> 00:57:25,480
Well, it's open source, so I think developers

1592
00:57:25,480 --> 00:57:29,800
should go to, what is it, maibo.org, m-a-e-b-o.org,

1593
00:57:29,800 --> 00:57:33,800
and jump in, because people are creating stuff.

1594
00:57:33,800 --> 00:57:35,120
Let me ask you about this, Patrick.

1595
00:57:35,120 --> 00:57:36,560
You work for ZIF Davis.

1596
00:57:36,560 --> 00:57:40,960
According to hard OCP, ZIF's going to be broken up and sold.

1597
00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:43,600
Bids were due on Friday.

1598
00:57:43,600 --> 00:57:45,160
Do you know anything about that?

1599
00:57:45,160 --> 00:57:47,080
Yeah, this is an eight-month-old story

1600
00:57:47,080 --> 00:57:50,600
that I apparently just picked up on.

1601
00:57:50,600 --> 00:57:52,320
There's nothing, they didn't add anything new.

1602
00:57:52,320 --> 00:57:53,960
They said that the PC and gaming division

1603
00:57:53,960 --> 00:57:55,560
would be broken up, that's not new.

1604
00:57:55,560 --> 00:57:57,680
Well, there is no PC and gaming division.

1605
00:57:57,680 --> 00:57:59,360
There's three divisions to the companies,

1606
00:57:59,360 --> 00:58:01,280
the Enterprise, Consumer and Small Business,

1607
00:58:01,280 --> 00:58:02,560
and the gaming division.

1608
00:58:02,560 --> 00:58:04,320
The gaming division is the gaming magazines

1609
00:58:04,440 --> 00:58:06,560
and the enterprise is...

1610
00:58:06,560 --> 00:58:08,680
They picked this up by the, I should point out,

1611
00:58:08,680 --> 00:58:11,000
from the Post, the New York Post.

1612
00:58:12,080 --> 00:58:15,400
You know, what's, they've been shopping

1613
00:58:15,400 --> 00:58:16,480
all three divisions.

1614
00:58:16,480 --> 00:58:19,400
I think the books have been shopped

1615
00:58:19,400 --> 00:58:21,960
for the gaming division and enterprise already.

1616
00:58:21,960 --> 00:58:23,400
The final division being shopped

1617
00:58:23,400 --> 00:58:25,120
is the Consumer and Small Business division,

1618
00:58:25,120 --> 00:58:25,960
which is my work.

1619
00:58:25,960 --> 00:58:28,360
Doesn't, oh, does it impact you at all?

1620
00:58:28,360 --> 00:58:30,520
Well, you know, how many sales do we go through

1621
00:58:30,520 --> 00:58:33,040
at ZDTV, DetectTV, that'd be two.

1622
00:58:33,600 --> 00:58:35,640
I went through my last ZIF Davis sale.

1623
00:58:35,640 --> 00:58:38,000
I'm not going through any more ZIF Davis sales.

1624
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:40,160
I mean, I went through, what, three or four?

1625
00:58:40,160 --> 00:58:41,640
Three or four, yeah.

1626
00:58:41,640 --> 00:58:42,640
DetectTV was sold in June.

1627
00:58:42,640 --> 00:58:45,720
I was with it, I started it in 94

1628
00:58:45,720 --> 00:58:47,920
when it was still owned by the ZIF family.

1629
00:58:47,920 --> 00:58:49,320
Yeah, so when Bill Ziff owned it,

1630
00:58:49,320 --> 00:58:51,680
he went from Bill Ziff to a holding company

1631
00:58:51,680 --> 00:58:52,680
to a holding company.

1632
00:58:52,680 --> 00:58:53,840
To SoftBank to...

1633
00:58:53,840 --> 00:58:54,960
SoftBank to...

1634
00:58:54,960 --> 00:58:56,440
To Paul Allen.

1635
00:58:56,440 --> 00:58:57,280
Paul Allen.

1636
00:58:57,280 --> 00:58:58,440
I left before Comcast.

1637
00:58:58,440 --> 00:59:00,200
No, I guess I didn't leave before Comcast,

1638
00:59:00,200 --> 00:59:01,040
so I guess...

1639
00:59:01,040 --> 00:59:02,040
Yeah, you were out right before that close.

1640
00:59:02,040 --> 00:59:03,160
Was it just before that closed?

1641
00:59:03,160 --> 00:59:04,600
All right, and a good thing too.

1642
00:59:04,600 --> 00:59:06,000
Let me tell you, I'm happy.

1643
00:59:06,000 --> 00:59:07,720
I have some ZIF Davis related news.

1644
00:59:07,720 --> 00:59:09,200
Oh, yes?

1645
00:59:09,200 --> 00:59:12,360
Well, former ZIF Davis employee, Natalie Del Conte,

1646
00:59:12,360 --> 00:59:15,080
will start her own video news show

1647
00:59:15,080 --> 00:59:18,240
called Tech Check on Pod Show in a couple weeks.

1648
00:59:18,240 --> 00:59:19,080
Excellent.

1649
00:59:19,080 --> 00:59:21,040
How many shows are on Pod Show now?

1650
00:59:22,760 --> 00:59:24,080
Do you have any idea?

1651
00:59:24,080 --> 00:59:27,520
Yeah, on the network itself, we have 5,000

1652
00:59:27,520 --> 00:59:30,920
and of those 5,000, about 500,

1653
00:59:30,920 --> 00:59:33,360
we have expanded agreements with

1654
00:59:33,360 --> 00:59:36,080
and who are making upfront money, et cetera.

1655
00:59:36,080 --> 00:59:37,560
That's impressive.

1656
00:59:37,560 --> 00:59:38,840
Now, is she making upfront money

1657
00:59:38,840 --> 00:59:41,120
or is she doing this on spec?

1658
00:59:41,120 --> 00:59:43,920
Oh, Natalie is working for us full-time on this.

1659
00:59:43,920 --> 00:59:45,040
Oh, good, right.

1660
00:59:45,040 --> 00:59:47,920
So, I guess she was in a...

1661
00:59:47,920 --> 00:59:48,760
Tech crunch.

1662
00:59:48,760 --> 00:59:50,200
Tech crunch.

1663
00:59:50,200 --> 00:59:52,040
Interesting, I almost got Mike Harrington on this.

1664
00:59:52,040 --> 00:59:54,240
Maybe that's why he didn't want to go on.

1665
00:59:55,360 --> 00:59:59,080
He wouldn't let her work for Pod Show

1666
00:59:59,080 --> 01:00:00,520
and write for Tech Crunch.

1667
01:00:00,600 --> 01:00:02,320
He considers us a competitor.

1668
01:00:02,320 --> 01:00:04,440
That's exactly why I mentioned that you'd be on, Adam.

1669
01:00:04,440 --> 01:00:06,480
All right, just curious.

1670
01:00:06,480 --> 01:00:08,600
The Juiced is on the loose.

1671
01:00:08,600 --> 01:00:10,600
How many of you have played with Juiced

1672
01:00:10,600 --> 01:00:11,440
and what do you think of it?

1673
01:00:11,440 --> 01:00:13,560
This is the new venture from Skype Fullscreen

1674
01:00:13,560 --> 01:00:15,520
television network via streaming.

1675
01:00:17,080 --> 01:00:18,960
Pretty, I have to say, pretty impressive.

1676
01:00:18,960 --> 01:00:21,680
The user interface especially is just gorgeous.

1677
01:00:22,960 --> 01:00:25,640
BitTech does a review of it.

1678
01:00:25,640 --> 01:00:28,800
Let's first ask Nick.

1679
01:00:28,800 --> 01:00:29,640
What do you think?

1680
01:00:29,760 --> 01:00:30,800
What do you say about that, Juiced?

1681
01:00:30,800 --> 01:00:31,440
How do you like Juiced?

1682
01:00:31,440 --> 01:00:33,240
You were the one who put the story in.

1683
01:00:33,240 --> 01:00:35,600
Do you know what I think it's really interesting

1684
01:00:35,600 --> 01:00:39,600
because it's a recognition of what I think

1685
01:00:39,600 --> 01:00:41,960
is one of the big areas of content to come,

1686
01:00:41,960 --> 01:00:44,240
which is like this mid-tail of content.

1687
01:00:44,240 --> 01:00:45,560
If you take like...

1688
01:00:45,560 --> 01:00:48,000
Not long-tail, but mid-tail.

1689
01:00:48,000 --> 01:00:50,200
If you've got the top of the tail, as it were,

1690
01:00:50,200 --> 01:00:53,200
is like your fox and your 24 and lost and whatever.

1691
01:00:53,200 --> 01:00:58,200
You've got YouTube and cat in toilet at the far end.

1692
01:00:58,520 --> 01:01:00,760
And in the middle, you've got this kind of professional

1693
01:01:00,760 --> 01:01:04,480
grade programming that is possibly interest,

1694
01:01:04,480 --> 01:01:07,280
sort of specific and is really, really interesting.

1695
01:01:07,280 --> 01:01:10,280
And Juiced is going around really trying to roll up

1696
01:01:10,280 --> 01:01:12,320
some of that stuff and get it online

1697
01:01:12,320 --> 01:01:16,320
and create real sort of like a TV browser

1698
01:01:16,320 --> 01:01:18,440
and a TV channel, but on your computer

1699
01:01:18,440 --> 01:01:20,800
made up of this really kind of interesting content.

1700
01:01:20,800 --> 01:01:22,880
And I think it's going to be a great home

1701
01:01:22,880 --> 01:01:26,440
for the kind of the dignations and the Mac breaks.

1702
01:01:26,600 --> 01:01:28,560
Right now, you're even seeing much music on it.

1703
01:01:28,560 --> 01:01:31,240
You're seeing some world poker tour on there.

1704
01:01:31,240 --> 01:01:33,680
Adam, you said you sound like you had some thoughts

1705
01:01:33,680 --> 01:01:34,520
about this.

1706
01:01:36,920 --> 01:01:40,000
Yeah, I have not been able to use it.

1707
01:01:40,000 --> 01:01:43,160
I'm still waiting for my beta user password.

1708
01:01:43,160 --> 01:01:45,000
As are a lot of people.

1709
01:01:45,000 --> 01:01:46,720
Yeah, I'm obviously aware of it.

1710
01:01:46,720 --> 01:01:48,240
I think there's a couple of things

1711
01:01:48,240 --> 01:01:50,040
that are wrong with this.

1712
01:01:50,040 --> 01:01:52,800
One, it appears to me that they are soliciting

1713
01:01:52,800 --> 01:01:56,360
mainstream content and building a,

1714
01:01:56,360 --> 01:01:57,880
basically a television service,

1715
01:01:57,880 --> 01:01:59,720
which technically I'm sure is going

1716
01:01:59,720 --> 01:02:02,840
to be extremely well received.

1717
01:02:02,840 --> 01:02:05,320
And I think the experience will be great.

1718
01:02:06,920 --> 01:02:09,640
So we go right back to my example

1719
01:02:09,640 --> 01:02:11,880
of making no money on Hollywood content.

1720
01:02:11,880 --> 01:02:13,040
So I think that's a mistake.

1721
01:02:13,040 --> 01:02:14,680
And then from what I have read

1722
01:02:15,880 --> 01:02:20,480
about their business model in mainstream publications

1723
01:02:20,480 --> 01:02:22,440
that are read, that they're going

1724
01:02:22,440 --> 01:02:25,640
with a form of AdSense type model,

1725
01:02:25,640 --> 01:02:27,200
trying to provide relevancy,

1726
01:02:27,200 --> 01:02:28,720
not just based upon the content,

1727
01:02:28,720 --> 01:02:30,920
but based upon who you are.

1728
01:02:30,920 --> 01:02:33,040
So a lot of pie in the sky type stuff,

1729
01:02:33,040 --> 01:02:36,040
which is not, again, it's not the brand advertising

1730
01:02:36,040 --> 01:02:38,120
I think everyone's looking for.

1731
01:02:38,120 --> 01:02:39,400
So I'd have to really see,

1732
01:02:39,400 --> 01:02:42,200
it all comes down to the content at the end of the day.

1733
01:02:42,200 --> 01:02:45,120
Look at what people are willing to watch on crappy YouTube.

1734
01:02:46,280 --> 01:02:48,560
So can you give me the same hilarious stuff

1735
01:02:49,440 --> 01:02:53,080
on this beautiful high-def type experience?

1736
01:02:53,080 --> 01:02:53,920
You think they should go

1737
01:02:53,920 --> 01:02:56,040
with the user-generated content?

1738
01:02:56,040 --> 01:02:58,920
Well, their distribution,

1739
01:02:58,920 --> 01:03:00,240
they've always relied on other people

1740
01:03:00,240 --> 01:03:01,280
to create the content.

1741
01:03:01,280 --> 01:03:02,400
Skype is the same thing,

1742
01:03:02,400 --> 01:03:03,720
because I was the same thing.

1743
01:03:03,720 --> 01:03:06,200
So other people providing the content

1744
01:03:06,200 --> 01:03:08,160
has made them very successful.

1745
01:03:08,160 --> 01:03:09,880
But I think now they're stepping into a game,

1746
01:03:09,880 --> 01:03:11,960
which I just don't know if there's a game to be had.

1747
01:03:11,960 --> 01:03:15,040
The other issue from what I understand

1748
01:03:15,040 --> 01:03:16,720
is that this thing will chew up

1749
01:03:16,720 --> 01:03:21,720
two to 300 megabytes of data transferred down

1750
01:03:22,680 --> 01:03:25,720
and 150 megabytes of data transferred up

1751
01:03:25,720 --> 01:03:27,560
if you are within the network.

1752
01:03:27,560 --> 01:03:29,840
So I have my doubts about how that's going to sit

1753
01:03:29,840 --> 01:03:32,160
with our ISP friends.

1754
01:03:32,160 --> 01:03:33,240
But at the end of the day,

1755
01:03:33,240 --> 01:03:36,040
I've poo-pooed both of them in the past.

1756
01:03:36,040 --> 01:03:39,800
I met them when they were building Kazab,

1757
01:03:39,800 --> 01:03:41,480
because they were stationed in the North.

1758
01:03:41,480 --> 01:03:42,640
Actually, they were just about to sell it.

1759
01:03:42,640 --> 01:03:44,720
They were stationed in Amsterdam.

1760
01:03:44,720 --> 01:03:46,680
And at the time, I thought,

1761
01:03:46,680 --> 01:03:48,680
man, these wacky guys are out of their mind.

1762
01:03:48,680 --> 01:03:51,200
And I was very wrong about that.

1763
01:03:51,200 --> 01:03:53,400
So they're definitely not stupid,

1764
01:03:53,400 --> 01:03:56,320
and they know how to get press, but...

1765
01:03:56,320 --> 01:03:57,600
And they're good programmers, I think.

1766
01:03:57,600 --> 01:04:00,000
And in each case, they've written really good software.

1767
01:04:00,000 --> 01:04:01,000
This is just as beautiful.

1768
01:04:01,000 --> 01:04:02,920
Wait till you see it, it's beautiful.

1769
01:04:02,920 --> 01:04:04,200
I think it was all,

1770
01:04:04,200 --> 01:04:05,600
they do that in Romania, I think.

1771
01:04:05,600 --> 01:04:06,800
I don't know if they still do it that way,

1772
01:04:06,800 --> 01:04:07,920
but that's how they built a lot of Skype.

1773
01:04:07,920 --> 01:04:08,760
Interesting.

1774
01:04:08,760 --> 01:04:10,360
A lot of Skype and Kazab.

1775
01:04:10,360 --> 01:04:11,560
Yeah, it was just the two of them

1776
01:04:11,560 --> 01:04:12,920
sitting in an office in Amsterdam

1777
01:04:12,920 --> 01:04:15,160
and all their engineers were in Romania.

1778
01:04:16,560 --> 01:04:20,560
But again, is this what we're waiting for?

1779
01:04:20,560 --> 01:04:22,280
Is it, are we waiting for,

1780
01:04:22,280 --> 01:04:24,160
to be able to see the office?

1781
01:04:24,160 --> 01:04:25,640
You could watch the office.

1782
01:04:27,040 --> 01:04:29,000
It's like, no, I don't think so.

1783
01:04:29,000 --> 01:04:31,360
What is six, even downloadable videos,

1784
01:04:31,360 --> 01:04:33,520
I have to question stuff.

1785
01:04:33,520 --> 01:04:36,080
It's like, what is the success of video on the internet?

1786
01:04:36,080 --> 01:04:38,400
No one can deny that it's YouTube.

1787
01:04:38,400 --> 01:04:40,440
And in general, although it's possible,

1788
01:04:40,440 --> 01:04:41,680
people aren't downloading.

1789
01:04:41,680 --> 01:04:43,760
They're just viewing in web browsers.

1790
01:04:43,760 --> 01:04:47,280
And it's some combination of it being simple,

1791
01:04:47,280 --> 01:04:49,240
it working every single time.

1792
01:04:49,240 --> 01:04:50,880
But for it to be funny.

1793
01:04:50,880 --> 01:04:52,920
But for it to mature, doesn't it have to stop

1794
01:04:52,920 --> 01:04:55,640
playing on my web browser and start playing on my TV?

1795
01:04:56,840 --> 01:04:58,480
Well, I think it's two different things.

1796
01:04:58,480 --> 01:05:01,680
The television is morphing dramatically.

1797
01:05:01,680 --> 01:05:03,760
It's become flat, it's become big,

1798
01:05:03,760 --> 01:05:05,920
it's on the wall, it's like a piece of art.

1799
01:05:05,920 --> 01:05:09,600
It's delivering sports, it's delivering news,

1800
01:05:09,600 --> 01:05:12,600
it's delivering a cinema experience,

1801
01:05:12,600 --> 01:05:17,600
which is why I'm not too high on the whole Netflix streaming.

1802
01:05:19,240 --> 01:05:22,400
I don't think it's too much trouble

1803
01:05:22,400 --> 01:05:26,520
for people to go and get a high HD DVD

1804
01:05:26,520 --> 01:05:27,720
if they're gonna watch a movie.

1805
01:05:27,720 --> 01:05:29,880
So do you think that the economy is,

1806
01:05:29,880 --> 01:05:32,600
the good TV is for premium content?

1807
01:05:32,600 --> 01:05:35,480
The computer is for YouTube style?

1808
01:05:35,480 --> 01:05:37,800
No, no, no, don't get me wrong.

1809
01:05:37,800 --> 01:05:39,760
When you say premium content,

1810
01:05:39,760 --> 01:05:42,640
I think I'm talking about quality.

1811
01:05:42,640 --> 01:05:46,240
So you can't watch a sports game

1812
01:05:46,240 --> 01:05:48,600
really effectively on your computer

1813
01:05:48,600 --> 01:05:49,760
with today's technology.

1814
01:05:49,760 --> 01:05:52,520
You wanna watch sports on a big ass screen

1815
01:05:52,520 --> 01:05:55,080
with a whole bunch of your buddies around drinking beer,

1816
01:05:55,080 --> 01:05:56,920
and it's gotta have great sound.

1817
01:05:56,920 --> 01:05:58,520
And it's a whole different type of experience

1818
01:05:58,520 --> 01:06:01,240
and very, very costly to make.

1819
01:06:01,240 --> 01:06:06,240
It's 13 to 20 cameras on any good day at any game.

1820
01:06:06,880 --> 01:06:09,320
And this is just an expensive proposition.

1821
01:06:09,320 --> 01:06:11,160
But what's interesting, Adam, is until YouTube,

1822
01:06:11,160 --> 01:06:13,800
the biggest purveyor video online

1823
01:06:13,800 --> 01:06:15,880
was actually Major League Baseball,

1824
01:06:15,880 --> 01:06:18,960
who were simply taking their rights over the broadcast

1825
01:06:18,960 --> 01:06:20,720
to stream them online and make them available

1826
01:06:20,720 --> 01:06:22,520
and charge money for them.

1827
01:06:22,520 --> 01:06:24,880
Well, interim step, I think,

1828
01:06:24,880 --> 01:06:27,200
and it's a little different than a lot of sports.

1829
01:06:27,200 --> 01:06:31,400
It's not NASCAR, it's not football, it's not soccer.

1830
01:06:31,400 --> 01:06:34,800
Baseball, at times, can be a very, very slow game,

1831
01:06:35,080 --> 01:06:38,120
and that kind of fits in with what you can parse

1832
01:06:38,120 --> 01:06:39,160
through today's technology

1833
01:06:39,160 --> 01:06:41,320
and what you can actually parse with your eyes.

1834
01:06:41,320 --> 01:06:43,080
But for movies, the same thing.

1835
01:06:44,120 --> 01:06:45,960
Yeah, I think there'll be a lot,

1836
01:06:45,960 --> 01:06:47,720
I watch all kinds of movies

1837
01:06:47,720 --> 01:06:49,400
streaming through Windows Media Player.

1838
01:06:49,400 --> 01:06:51,640
I've got my porn accounts, you know, I watch that,

1839
01:06:51,640 --> 01:06:53,160
and it's exactly what I want, you know?

1840
01:06:53,160 --> 01:06:55,240
And I pay per minute, fantastic.

1841
01:06:55,240 --> 01:06:57,400
But if I'm gonna watch a movie

1842
01:06:57,400 --> 01:07:02,040
that $30 to $100 million went into to create,

1843
01:07:02,040 --> 01:07:03,520
I really enjoy it much more

1844
01:07:03,560 --> 01:07:06,280
if I'm watching that in an HD experience.

1845
01:07:06,280 --> 01:07:08,440
I'm not arguing against that, but it's like,

1846
01:07:08,440 --> 01:07:10,480
there's certainly, there's some compelling arguments

1847
01:07:10,480 --> 01:07:13,680
for streaming, live streaming of sporting events,

1848
01:07:13,680 --> 01:07:16,120
and if Major League Baseball can make it work.

1849
01:07:16,120 --> 01:07:17,440
I mean, it's interesting to think about

1850
01:07:17,440 --> 01:07:21,360
what it costs to actually get a 500K or megabit stream,

1851
01:07:21,360 --> 01:07:22,560
you know what I mean, to get it out there

1852
01:07:22,560 --> 01:07:23,880
to people and what it's gonna cost

1853
01:07:23,880 --> 01:07:26,120
in terms of either advertising revenue

1854
01:07:26,120 --> 01:07:28,800
or people being willing to pay for the subscriptions.

1855
01:07:28,800 --> 01:07:30,360
And that latter part, paying for the scripts

1856
01:07:30,360 --> 01:07:31,200
of the subscriptions

1857
01:07:31,200 --> 01:07:32,880
is kind of what made Major League Baseball work.

1858
01:07:33,560 --> 01:07:34,720
You know, it's also interesting to realize

1859
01:07:34,720 --> 01:07:37,440
there's an entire generation that's been perfectly happy

1860
01:07:37,440 --> 01:07:40,880
with media quality MP3s that they download.

1861
01:07:40,880 --> 01:07:43,240
And, you know, I mean, how many people

1862
01:07:43,240 --> 01:07:45,640
have you run into that live off of content

1863
01:07:45,640 --> 01:07:47,440
they download off of peer-to-peer?

1864
01:07:47,440 --> 01:07:49,480
So I think you're right there

1865
01:07:49,480 --> 01:07:51,200
about Major League Baseball,

1866
01:07:51,200 --> 01:07:53,560
but I think the reason, this just proves it,

1867
01:07:53,560 --> 01:07:55,840
the reason why people were willing to subscribe

1868
01:07:55,840 --> 01:07:57,200
to Major League Baseball

1869
01:07:57,200 --> 01:08:00,040
is to be able to see all the games they want to see.

1870
01:08:00,040 --> 01:08:01,200
It wasn't, you know,

1871
01:08:01,200 --> 01:08:04,120
because you just can't get access to the content,

1872
01:08:04,120 --> 01:08:06,640
to all the content in your region.

1873
01:08:06,640 --> 01:08:09,320
That's just the way everything's been set up.

1874
01:08:09,320 --> 01:08:12,080
So that just proves that people will go to any extent

1875
01:08:12,080 --> 01:08:13,960
to get content they really love.

1876
01:08:13,960 --> 01:08:18,240
But television is much more social experience.

1877
01:08:18,240 --> 01:08:19,840
You know, you're watching a game with friends.

1878
01:08:19,840 --> 01:08:22,880
You're watching a movie with your family or friends.

1879
01:08:22,880 --> 01:08:26,560
You're using it as a screen for your Wii.

1880
01:08:26,560 --> 01:08:28,920
You know, it's just a different type of device

1881
01:08:28,920 --> 01:08:29,760
and demands different content.

1882
01:08:29,800 --> 01:08:30,640
It's not that hard.

1883
01:08:30,640 --> 01:08:33,920
It's not that hard to bring online content on your screen.

1884
01:08:33,920 --> 01:08:34,760
It's whether, you know,

1885
01:08:34,760 --> 01:08:35,520
it's how long it's going to take.

1886
01:08:35,520 --> 01:08:36,760
I mean, what's in it?

1887
01:08:36,760 --> 01:08:38,760
Hey, I was watching Studio 40 that downloaded

1888
01:08:38,760 --> 01:08:42,840
from the internet on my Xbox 360 on my HDTV last night.

1889
01:08:42,840 --> 01:08:46,240
That seems, to me, that seems like a perfect world.

1890
01:08:46,240 --> 01:08:48,400
But we've got like 80% of our users download

1891
01:08:48,400 --> 01:08:49,240
rather than streaming.

1892
01:08:49,240 --> 01:08:50,600
And it's a long format program

1893
01:08:50,600 --> 01:08:54,000
and about 20, 25% actually already are watching

1894
01:08:54,000 --> 01:08:56,840
on a television or an HDTV.

1895
01:08:56,840 --> 01:08:58,320
I mean, one of the biggest demands we get

1896
01:08:58,320 --> 01:08:59,840
is people want a widescreen version

1897
01:08:59,840 --> 01:09:00,840
and they want a higher,

1898
01:09:00,840 --> 01:09:02,560
they want basically a higher bit rate version

1899
01:09:02,560 --> 01:09:04,480
that's going to look better on an HDTV.

1900
01:09:04,480 --> 01:09:06,520
I think there's no question we're in a state of flux.

1901
01:09:06,520 --> 01:09:08,640
It's kind of hard to predict exactly what's going to happen.

1902
01:09:08,640 --> 01:09:09,840
I think you both made good points,

1903
01:09:09,840 --> 01:09:10,960
but we're going to wrap this up

1904
01:09:10,960 --> 01:09:12,840
because we're out of time.

1905
01:09:12,840 --> 01:09:13,680
And you know what, Adam?

1906
01:09:13,680 --> 01:09:15,840
I think you've got to come back.

1907
01:09:15,840 --> 01:09:17,160
Oh, I'd love to.

1908
01:09:17,160 --> 01:09:19,160
If you could PayPal me another 20 bucks, I'll.

1909
01:09:19,160 --> 01:09:21,200
We got our 20 bucks worth.

1910
01:09:21,200 --> 01:09:22,520
I'll tell you, even when you convert it

1911
01:09:22,520 --> 01:09:24,920
to British pounds or euros or whatever the hell it is

1912
01:09:24,920 --> 01:09:26,480
you guys use over there.

1913
01:09:26,480 --> 01:09:27,960
I'm really glad you could be here.

1914
01:09:28,000 --> 01:09:30,720
Of course, Pod Show is Adam's great company

1915
01:09:30,720 --> 01:09:32,560
and has done so much to help podcasters.

1916
01:09:32,560 --> 01:09:34,280
I can't, when you say,

1917
01:09:34,280 --> 01:09:37,080
what did you say, 10,000 podcasts on there?

1918
01:09:37,080 --> 01:09:40,480
5,000 on the network, 500 are making upfront money.

1919
01:09:40,480 --> 01:09:41,400
That's fantastic.

1920
01:09:41,400 --> 01:09:44,200
That's just, you know, that's a great boon

1921
01:09:44,200 --> 01:09:46,720
for those 500 and for the 5,000.

1922
01:09:46,720 --> 01:09:47,560
And of course-

1923
01:09:47,560 --> 01:09:48,400
Anyone's welcome to join.

1924
01:09:48,400 --> 01:09:51,200
Daily source code is Adam's own podcast.

1925
01:09:51,200 --> 01:09:53,480
It has been since practically day one.

1926
01:09:53,480 --> 01:09:57,880
I think it's actually the second podcast of all time.

1927
01:09:57,920 --> 01:09:58,800
He's the Pod Father.

1928
01:09:58,800 --> 01:10:00,680
Adam, thank you for joining us.

1929
01:10:00,680 --> 01:10:01,520
Thank you.

1930
01:10:01,520 --> 01:10:03,400
One question, were you wearing the pink jumper?

1931
01:10:03,400 --> 01:10:05,240
No, I'm wearing the turquoise jumper, actually.

1932
01:10:05,240 --> 01:10:06,840
Thank you, very nice, so nice.

1933
01:10:06,840 --> 01:10:08,200
Of course, the American audience is saying,

1934
01:10:08,200 --> 01:10:09,320
what is all this about jumpers?

1935
01:10:09,320 --> 01:10:10,840
They think you're wearing a moomoo or something.

1936
01:10:10,840 --> 01:10:12,960
It's just a sweater, folks.

1937
01:10:12,960 --> 01:10:14,800
It's just a sweater.

1938
01:10:14,800 --> 01:10:19,040
Thanks to Will Harris, bit-tech.net is his website.

1939
01:10:19,040 --> 01:10:21,040
He's the guy who gave us the pink jumper sighting

1940
01:10:21,040 --> 01:10:22,760
and thanks to you, we got Adam on

1941
01:10:22,760 --> 01:10:25,480
and it's great to hear from you as always.

1942
01:10:25,480 --> 01:10:27,080
I get more email when you're on

1943
01:10:27,080 --> 01:10:28,040
than almost anybody else.

1944
01:10:28,040 --> 01:10:31,600
People really like hearing the international perspective.

1945
01:10:31,600 --> 01:10:33,160
It's just a British accent.

1946
01:10:33,160 --> 01:10:34,760
Nobody likes me, it's just the accent.

1947
01:10:34,760 --> 01:10:35,920
It's true, we love the accent.

1948
01:10:35,920 --> 01:10:38,240
You sound so intelligent, you know?

1949
01:10:38,240 --> 01:10:40,840
And bit-tech.net is a great place

1950
01:10:40,840 --> 01:10:43,120
to go to read up on a lot of these stories.

1951
01:10:43,120 --> 01:10:46,280
And of course, Patrick Norton is the host of DL.TV.

1952
01:10:47,360 --> 01:10:50,360
As long as Ziff Davis can hold it together.

1953
01:10:50,360 --> 01:10:51,920
But Patrick, you know there's always a home

1954
01:10:51,920 --> 01:10:53,880
for DLTV no matter where you, you know,

1955
01:10:53,880 --> 01:10:55,240
whatever happens, I don't think

1956
01:10:55,240 --> 01:10:56,360
that's any question about that.

1957
01:10:56,360 --> 01:10:58,360
It's a great show with Robert Herron.

1958
01:10:58,360 --> 01:11:01,360
And Leo, may I thank you for being such a fantastic host.

1959
01:11:01,360 --> 01:11:03,520
It's very difficult having been involved

1960
01:11:03,520 --> 01:11:06,360
with several of these type of roundtable shows.

1961
01:11:06,360 --> 01:11:08,840
There's only three guests, but you do a great job at that

1962
01:11:08,840 --> 01:11:11,240
and my wife just creams over your voice.

1963
01:11:11,240 --> 01:11:15,840
Okay, well while you're busy watching your pay-per-view

1964
01:11:15,840 --> 01:11:19,360
at porn, I might just come over and say hello.

1965
01:11:19,360 --> 01:11:20,360
Oh, you got a deal, man.

1966
01:11:20,360 --> 01:11:22,760
20 bucks, I'll send it back.

1967
01:11:22,760 --> 01:11:23,600
Hey, it really is-

1968
01:11:23,880 --> 01:11:24,720
God show channel.

1969
01:11:24,720 --> 01:11:27,480
It really has been a lot of fun.

1970
01:11:27,480 --> 01:11:29,400
I thank you all and I'm serious, Adam.

1971
01:11:29,400 --> 01:11:32,160
I would love to have you on any time you're interested.

1972
01:11:32,160 --> 01:11:34,840
You had considerably to the panel

1973
01:11:34,840 --> 01:11:35,680
and it's just really great.

1974
01:11:35,680 --> 01:11:36,520
Well, thank you.

1975
01:11:36,520 --> 01:11:38,120
I'd love to and the only reason

1976
01:11:38,120 --> 01:11:39,440
I just haven't hooked it up earlier

1977
01:11:39,440 --> 01:11:42,000
is because I usually travel on Saturday

1978
01:11:42,000 --> 01:11:44,640
and I arrive Sunday and it's midnight where I am.

1979
01:11:44,640 --> 01:11:45,480
So-

1980
01:11:45,480 --> 01:11:48,400
Well, and million dollar, you don't get a million miles

1981
01:11:48,400 --> 01:11:51,520
without doing a considerable amount of time in an airplane.

1982
01:11:51,520 --> 01:11:52,360
That's correct.

1983
01:11:52,400 --> 01:11:56,360
13 or 15 million is not that important.

1984
01:11:56,360 --> 01:11:57,800
Of course, Will is up and then let's see.

1985
01:11:57,800 --> 01:11:59,160
Let's see, Will now it's a,

1986
01:11:59,160 --> 01:12:01,600
what is it about, one in the morning there?

1987
01:12:01,600 --> 01:12:02,440
20 plus 12.

1988
01:12:02,440 --> 01:12:03,600
12, 19, all right.

1989
01:12:03,600 --> 01:12:04,920
I thank you for staying up late.

1990
01:12:04,920 --> 01:12:05,760
Another twit.

1991
01:12:05,760 --> 01:12:06,960
This week in tech.

1992
01:12:06,960 --> 01:12:07,800
He's in the care.

1993
01:12:07,800 --> 01:12:10,800
This week in tech.

1994
01:12:10,800 --> 01:12:13,800
This week in tech.

1995
01:12:13,800 --> 01:12:14,800
This week in tech.

1996
01:12:14,800 --> 01:12:15,800
This week in tech.

1997
01:12:15,800 --> 01:12:16,800
This week in tech.

1998
01:12:16,800 --> 01:12:17,800
This week in tech.

1999
01:12:17,800 --> 01:12:18,800
This week in tech.

2000
01:12:18,800 --> 01:12:19,800
This week in tech.

2001
01:12:19,800 --> 01:12:20,800
This week in tech.

2002
01:12:20,800 --> 01:12:21,800
This week in tech.

2003
01:12:22,040 --> 01:12:24,040
This is a crap society.

2004
01:12:26,040 --> 01:12:28,040
This is a crap generation.

2005
01:12:29,160 --> 01:12:33,840
This one is crap everywhere.

2006
01:12:33,840 --> 01:12:35,840
There's ads everywhere.

2007
01:12:35,840 --> 01:12:37,840
There's no ads.

2008
01:12:37,840 --> 01:12:39,840
This one's got everything in tech.

2009
01:12:39,840 --> 01:12:40,840
I'm a cranky old man.

2010
01:12:40,840 --> 01:12:43,840
And this week in tech.

2011
01:12:43,840 --> 01:12:46,840
Just made my sense of coffee with my Splendor Flavor blend

2012
01:12:46,840 --> 01:12:48,760
and I'm gonna sign up right now

2013
01:12:48,760 --> 01:12:51,640
for a Go Daddy account and I'm ready.

2014
01:12:51,640 --> 01:12:52,640
I love you.

2015
01:12:52,640 --> 01:12:58,080
How come you're not in the Go Daddy Super Bowl commercial?

2016
01:12:58,080 --> 01:12:59,480
My breast size is too small.

2017
01:12:59,480 --> 01:13:00,480
Yeah, I noticed.

2018
01:13:00,480 --> 01:13:04,560
There were quite a few women in that, but he can't make one de l'air yet.

2019
01:13:04,560 --> 01:13:06,800
I don't think he's got one yet that de l'air.

2020
01:13:06,800 --> 01:13:09,960
Well, but you certainly understand them doing that purposely.

2021
01:13:09,960 --> 01:13:10,960
Right.

2022
01:13:10,960 --> 01:13:11,960
And he's sure getting a lot of attention.

2023
01:13:11,960 --> 01:13:15,200
Yeah, that's the entire point.

2024
01:13:15,200 --> 01:13:18,640
So I haven't talked to Callie, but I know she was in one of the early ones.

2025
01:13:18,640 --> 01:13:23,160
Is she still in the later editions, or is she one of the people who is greatest?

2026
01:13:23,160 --> 01:13:28,880
Well, Callie's commercial was more one of the brand imaging things they're doing, where

2027
01:13:28,880 --> 01:13:31,680
they want to approach a whole bunch of different markets.

2028
01:13:31,680 --> 01:13:38,520
So the whole vibe of Go Daddy is big-chested, all-American, bombshell girls.

2029
01:13:38,520 --> 01:13:42,080
I know that's what I look for when I look for a domain registrar.

2030
01:13:42,080 --> 01:13:43,960
Well, I'll tell you, it's interesting.

2031
01:13:43,960 --> 01:13:51,000
We have, you know, on our homepage is the Go Daddy girl advertisement, and we've done some

2032
01:13:51,000 --> 01:13:55,520
surveys, and lots of people said, well, you know, I saw this picture on the homepage that

2033
01:13:55,520 --> 01:14:01,640
wasn't too sure, you know, what the site was about, and I'm a little worried.

2034
01:14:01,640 --> 01:14:04,320
It's a fool's paradise.

2035
01:14:04,320 --> 01:14:09,320
This is amazing.