WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:14.000 Hey, good afternoon. Good morning. We're a good evening, depending on where you are. Welcome to Trade Secrets. I'm 00:14.000 --> 00:22.000 out. I'm curry in Belgium. I'm a parcel. Dave Winner at 5am in Seattle. You're such a trooper, Dave. 00:22.000 --> 00:30.000 You're such a nice. I hardly even get a chance to like open my eyes. I don't want to lie to you. 00:30.000 --> 00:35.000 Let's do a Trade Secrets. Yeah, that's so cool. All right. Let's do it. You got to do it. 00:35.000 --> 00:41.000 The thing is we talk and then we, we, we, we jabber a little bit and then we're done. And then it's like, 00:41.000 --> 00:49.000 I don't want to do a show. No, I got nothing left to say. So, yeah. It's like a turtle. Yeah. Well, it's good to do 00:49.000 --> 00:55.000 one. We haven't done a Trade Secrets since podcasting became all the rage. Right. Which was last week. 00:55.000 --> 01:03.000 Yeah, I'm pretty good. It's, it's good. How was your trip? You got back from San Francisco yesterday? 01:03.000 --> 01:09.000 Yeah. It was really an easy trip. I found a hotel in just the perfect location. 01:09.000 --> 01:18.000 It's easy into San Francisco, easy down to the peninsula. So I can get to Palo Alto. And I spent a lot of time at Stanford. 01:18.000 --> 01:24.000 Working out the details. Got a whole bunch of things settled for blogger time three, 01:24.000 --> 01:30.000 which is on as you know that ever six. We found room for everybody who was on the wait list. 01:30.000 --> 01:38.000 Yeah, that's a lot of things. Well, I kind of figured at some point that when things, when the 01:38.000 --> 01:43.000 registration slowed down that, you know, basically when they were really raging, I had to put the weight 01:43.000 --> 01:50.000 list on because I didn't know how high it was going to go. And it was like middle august. 01:50.000 --> 01:59.000 And we had to, you know, leave room for Stanford people because, you know, they're one of their goals was that they'd be participating in 02:00.000 --> 02:07.000 firecons. So all things put together, said, okay, let's cut it off at 250 because we know we can do that. 02:07.000 --> 02:11.000 And let's win a lot bigger than 250 to me. 02:11.000 --> 02:14.000 Yeah, we're officially at 421 right now. 02:14.000 --> 02:20.000 And that's pushing it because at the same time we're 421. 02:20.000 --> 02:26.000 We're not that high in terms of dollars and we're going to need to feed people to provide them 02:26.000 --> 02:31.000 investments and mundane stuff like we have to pay for to clean the rooms. 02:31.000 --> 02:33.000 And we have to get Wi-Fi, right? 02:33.000 --> 02:34.000 Got it. 02:34.000 --> 02:36.000 We have Wi-Fi on it. 02:36.000 --> 02:41.000 And the webcast, which you'll be very interested to know, we've probably talked about that actually. 02:41.000 --> 02:48.000 Well, we haven't talked about the fact that Doug K has generously offered to take care of most of it. 02:48.000 --> 02:53.000 Well, it turns out that I don't think that's the way it's actually going to work. 02:53.000 --> 02:56.000 Well, it does news, you better tell me what's going on. 02:56.000 --> 02:58.000 Well, it's interesting. 02:58.000 --> 03:06.000 I mean, I talked with Doug before we went, you know, basically Doug was on the speaker phone at the meeting at Stanford. 03:06.000 --> 03:19.000 And so I was there with John Harrison, who was the AV guy at Stanford and Lauren Gellman, who is with the their Institute for the Internet and Society, 03:19.000 --> 03:22.000 which is the Stanford counterpart to Berkman Center. 03:22.000 --> 03:28.000 And there, Lauren is like the Stanford person who I'm working with on this conference. 03:28.000 --> 03:33.000 And so Doug has a stick that really works. 03:33.000 --> 03:40.000 You know, I mean Doug's IT conversations and coming up the other end of Doug's work is going to be like one beautiful, you know, 03:40.000 --> 03:48.000 every regard of beautiful product, you know, podcast, what audio, whatever you want to call it. 03:48.000 --> 03:54.000 I mean, it's thinking of Bob and MP3 and lots of different formats and it's going to stream and whatever. 03:54.000 --> 04:01.000 However, only one of his, he's only going to live stream one of the three set concurrent sessions. 04:01.000 --> 04:02.000 Right. 04:02.000 --> 04:07.000 So that's problem number one or opportunity number one is, but the other sessions would be recorded. 04:07.000 --> 04:10.000 Right. 04:10.000 --> 04:11.000 Pardon me. 04:11.000 --> 04:14.000 All the sessions would be recorded though. 04:14.000 --> 04:21.000 I don't see, you know, if we can do it, I don't see why not webcast all the sessions too. 04:21.000 --> 04:23.000 If we can, I want to try to do that. 04:23.000 --> 04:24.000 Okay. 04:24.000 --> 04:32.000 Last time, we had a deal with advanced net with Jeff Jarvis and they had huge capacity for webcasting. 04:32.000 --> 04:37.000 And, you know, at the very last minute, we thought, okay, let's ask Jeff Jarvis and Jeff said, yeah, 04:37.000 --> 04:42.000 and they helped us out and we were doing like, you know, huge amounts of webcasting through his network. 04:42.000 --> 04:44.000 So that was good. 04:44.000 --> 04:53.000 And they also, it was really interesting because I had been trying to explain to Doug about how the hobbyists decided this is so important. 04:53.000 --> 04:59.000 You know, but here we are, we're doing podcasting and, you know, what is podcasting, but amateur radio, right? 04:59.000 --> 05:05.000 And it's very much like blogging is amateur journalism, right? 05:05.000 --> 05:06.000 Right. 05:06.000 --> 05:15.000 And so, but Doug thinks in terms of professional and he thinks that what he's doing is enough and some sense it is enough. 05:15.000 --> 05:16.000 But it's not for me. 05:16.000 --> 05:22.000 I want to get this thing wide open for anybody, for any for you and for any of your podcasting. 05:22.000 --> 05:24.000 We're going to have a lot of AV geeks there. 05:24.000 --> 05:27.000 And it's just a podcast. 05:27.000 --> 05:28.000 Right. 05:28.000 --> 05:32.000 And, you know, I'm not going to tell them that hey, you know, well, Doug's doing a professional job and, you know, 05:32.000 --> 05:37.000 therefore, blah, blah, blah, you know, because that's, you know, they're going to go, well, Dave, what happened to the blogging religion here? 05:37.000 --> 05:40.000 And I'm going to go, uh, good point. 05:40.000 --> 05:46.000 So, and what really convinced me of this was that the Stanford people asked me about that after the meeting was over. 05:46.000 --> 05:52.000 This is what about the random people who want to, you know, record this or whatever. 05:52.000 --> 05:54.000 And I said, right on, exactly. 05:54.000 --> 06:01.000 You know, and that's the, that's where why holding these conferences at universities is such a good thing to do because 06:01.000 --> 06:04.000 universities think that way. 06:04.000 --> 06:08.000 They, they're not looking necessarily for the maximum policy. 06:08.000 --> 06:13.000 And especially at a place like, you know, Stanford Law School and a Berkman Center. 06:13.000 --> 06:17.000 It's, you know, it's, it's the internet for the people basically. 06:17.000 --> 06:22.000 So we're going to, we're going to try to come up with something where we're not only just 06:22.000 --> 06:28.000 going to record and do his usual very great job, but that it's also going to be wide open. 06:28.000 --> 06:32.000 There'll be a way for anybody to tap into the audio out in all three rooms. 06:32.000 --> 06:33.000 Really? 06:33.000 --> 06:34.000 Those are stuff. 06:34.000 --> 06:36.000 Yeah, well, that's what we want to do. 06:36.000 --> 06:37.000 Yeah. 06:37.000 --> 06:39.000 And they just have to work with us in advance. 06:39.000 --> 06:41.000 That's going to be the requirement, okay? 06:41.000 --> 06:42.000 So how do people get in touch with it? 06:42.000 --> 06:45.000 If they want to, if they want to help out and get in touch with an advance. 06:45.000 --> 06:47.000 I, I'd like them to get in touch with you. 06:47.000 --> 06:50.000 And then you tell me what your people, you tell me what they, 06:50.000 --> 06:51.000 I need more email. 06:51.000 --> 06:52.000 Thank you. 06:52.000 --> 06:54.000 Yeah, you do. 06:54.000 --> 06:56.000 I was thinking about you, right? 06:56.000 --> 06:59.000 I was thinking, I didn't get any of that email. 06:59.000 --> 07:02.000 You know, I don't get enough of the new podcast. 07:02.000 --> 07:04.000 The please add me to the directory emails. 07:04.000 --> 07:06.000 Oh, add it if you keep it. 07:06.000 --> 07:09.000 If you start whining, they're going to stop sending it to you. 07:09.000 --> 07:10.000 It's a little secret. 07:10.000 --> 07:11.000 You have to say you love it. 07:11.000 --> 07:12.000 I love it. 07:12.000 --> 07:13.000 I love it. 07:13.000 --> 07:14.000 I love it. 07:14.000 --> 07:15.000 I love it. 07:15.000 --> 07:16.000 I love it. 07:16.000 --> 07:19.000 Now I got to, for other people already working on the directory with me. 07:19.000 --> 07:23.000 They're, they're making their OPML branches and it's working. 07:23.000 --> 07:24.000 So I'm offloading. 07:24.000 --> 07:27.000 You know, I want, that's on my list. 07:27.000 --> 07:28.000 Totally. 07:28.000 --> 07:33.000 I was listening to that on the plane from, from San Francisco to Seattle last night. 07:33.000 --> 07:42.000 And I was so proud of you out in that you like totally understand and can explain the whole concept of these included directories. 07:42.000 --> 07:44.000 Well, that's my dream. 07:44.000 --> 07:48.000 Now that, but now that I'm actually doing it, I understand it. 07:48.000 --> 07:50.000 And it's so simple. 07:50.000 --> 07:51.000 Yeah. 07:51.000 --> 07:58.000 Still a little, you know, unless you're using radio user land, I haven't really come across a tool that does it exactly right that really exports. 07:58.000 --> 07:59.000 Well, perfectly. 07:59.000 --> 08:03.000 Now, that leaves me right into my next item on my list. 08:03.000 --> 08:04.000 Oh, wait. 08:04.000 --> 08:06.000 Don't tell me, I said, I said, didn't do something for you. 08:06.000 --> 08:07.000 Damn. 08:07.000 --> 08:08.000 Totally perfectly. 08:08.000 --> 08:09.000 It couldn't be better. 08:09.000 --> 08:10.000 Alright. 08:10.000 --> 08:12.000 It really couldn't be better. 08:12.000 --> 08:13.000 Okay. 08:13.000 --> 08:17.000 I was listening to your daily source code last night as I was saying on the plane and heard you go into the story of OPML. 08:17.000 --> 08:20.000 And, you know, but a lot of people don't know. 08:20.000 --> 08:25.000 I mean, OPML is a very popular format in RSS aggregators. 08:25.000 --> 08:26.000 Yeah. 08:26.000 --> 08:33.000 Because in radio, we chose to use that as our way of listing, you know, sets of feeds. 08:33.000 --> 08:39.000 And radio was pretty influential in the early days, so basically everybody did the same way. 08:39.000 --> 08:43.000 And, but what people don't know is that as you were so well-telling them, 08:44.000 --> 08:48.000 is that OPML is actually a very rich format which can do more than that. 08:48.000 --> 08:51.000 And it can do, you know, nested directories. 08:51.000 --> 08:53.000 And it can do this thing called inclusion. 08:53.000 --> 08:57.000 And it's also the underlying format of the radio outlineer. 08:57.000 --> 08:59.000 And here's the deal at him. 08:59.000 --> 09:01.000 We open source that code. 09:01.000 --> 09:02.000 Okay. 09:02.000 --> 09:05.000 And that's all part of frontier. 09:05.000 --> 09:06.000 Aha. 09:06.000 --> 09:07.000 Yeah. 09:07.000 --> 09:08.000 Radio builds out of frontier. 09:08.000 --> 09:10.000 I mean, that's a little secret, basically. 09:10.000 --> 09:11.000 There's no such thing. 09:12.000 --> 09:14.000 There's no separate code based for radio. 09:14.000 --> 09:19.000 All of the C source code for radio was also released as open source. 09:19.000 --> 09:21.000 And that includes the outlineer. 09:21.000 --> 09:23.000 It includes all the OPML code. 09:23.000 --> 09:28.000 It includes a complete TCP stack, including HTTP. 09:28.000 --> 09:35.000 So that, you know, moving these outlines around is something that, and providing a user interface for editing. 09:35.000 --> 09:45.000 And editing them is something that radio does so natively that, you know, it's hard to stop it from doing it, basically. 09:45.000 --> 09:53.000 So the, you know, a same kind of thing could be done with that that was done with the iPodder. 09:53.000 --> 10:01.000 We could get a project going to create, you know, the easiest to use outlineer out of the code base that's there. 10:01.000 --> 10:03.000 And it would be Windows and Mac. 10:03.000 --> 10:09.000 And, uh, and could, of course, be ported to any platform, including like Linux. 10:09.000 --> 10:16.000 And we would have the bootstep for something that will be so incredible when it actually works. 10:16.000 --> 10:26.000 In other words, that this can go in so far beyond, I mean, I don't want to say it because podcasting so incredible, but it can go beyond podcasting. 10:26.000 --> 10:31.000 And into a whole sort of knowledge tree for the universe. 10:31.000 --> 10:39.000 Well, it's really exciting because, you know, when you start a directory and I've started many directories and then people send you links, you know, 10:39.000 --> 10:47.000 it's, it becomes a real drag to maintain it, you know, and if you're not, if people send you an addition and it's not up in the same day, you know, 10:47.000 --> 10:53.000 people get bored and then it's just not alive. And by, you know, this delegation, which is also decentralization, 10:53.000 --> 11:01.000 and, you know, gives no one any real power, certainly not an decentralized power, but only over, you know, whatever tree they're working on, 11:01.000 --> 11:06.000 just the offload, and you can see the possibilities immediately. 11:06.000 --> 11:10.000 Immediately, you see, oh, well, duh, of course, this is how this supposed to work. 11:10.000 --> 11:13.000 And it's so simple, it really is. 11:13.000 --> 11:20.000 Well, it's the outline equivalent of the link. And, you know, and it, and outline, you know, it's just that's all we do, 11:20.000 --> 11:25.000 but follow the grain of the outline and say, okay, what would a link look like in this space? 11:25.000 --> 11:31.000 And if you go back to the outline as we did in the 80s, this would be the equivalent of what we call cloning, 11:31.000 --> 11:38.000 so that an item and all of its descendants can appear in as many places as you want to. 11:38.000 --> 11:44.000 They also call them file aliases in the Macintosh and they call them shortcuts in Windows. 11:44.000 --> 11:53.000 So, it's the concept of a pointer. It's a computer science thing that they always seem to have mystical powers when you use them, 11:53.000 --> 11:54.000 and this is no exception. 11:54.000 --> 11:57.000 Is that like a send link as well? 11:57.000 --> 11:58.000 Pardon me? 11:58.000 --> 12:00.000 Is that like a send link? 12:00.000 --> 12:02.000 I don't know what a send link is. 12:02.000 --> 12:11.000 Okay, that's in unix where you, you can say, okay, this file path, it's a symbolic link, it's not real, 12:11.000 --> 12:14.000 but if you point to it, it'll take you to the real file. 12:14.000 --> 12:16.000 Is that the same thing? 12:16.000 --> 12:18.000 Yeah, that's totally like it. 12:18.000 --> 12:19.000 Okay, got it. 12:19.000 --> 12:26.000 Yeah, you see everywhere in user talk, the user talk scripting language, it's the address symbol, 12:26.000 --> 12:27.000 general, it's a pointer. 12:27.000 --> 12:32.000 So pointers are like major, big deal, but having them in an interactive product like an outline or 12:32.000 --> 12:38.000 where the outline or then can, you know, try expanding one of these things when you open it up in your outline or 12:38.000 --> 12:39.000 there. 12:39.000 --> 12:41.000 Yeah, it's quite spinning one of your links and see what happens. 12:41.000 --> 12:44.000 Yeah, it's like the outline or something. 12:44.000 --> 12:45.000 Yeah, it just keeps going. 12:45.000 --> 12:47.000 If you go on this many levels, steep as you want. 12:47.000 --> 12:50.000 Now, here's something else that people might not know. 12:50.000 --> 12:58.000 Is that, okay, Adam, you can include their OPML in your directory, and that will have 12:58.000 --> 13:02.000 the effect of including their directory in yours. 13:02.000 --> 13:05.000 But they can also include your directory in theirs. 13:05.000 --> 13:06.000 Right. 13:06.000 --> 13:11.000 So that if they think they have, you know, this is where the ego starts coming in, right? 13:11.000 --> 13:14.000 And so people go, well, geez, I'm not going to be subordinate to Adam. 13:14.000 --> 13:16.000 You know, everybody's good as Adam. 13:16.000 --> 13:20.000 Unfortunately, or fortunately, or whatever, that happens a lot in the computer business. 13:20.000 --> 13:22.000 It's also true, just, you know. 13:22.000 --> 13:27.000 Yeah, well, it's true, but you know, sometimes following your pride is a good thing to do so that it's 13:27.000 --> 13:29.000 for the greater good. 13:29.000 --> 13:34.000 But, okay, so even if that isn't going to happen, then what can happen is if you've got 13:34.000 --> 13:40.000 the master directory for the pod space that include, they can include your directory. 13:40.000 --> 13:44.000 And there's because you have an OPML rendition of yours. 13:44.000 --> 13:45.000 Right. 13:45.000 --> 13:50.000 And when they do that, when they do that, they will also be including everything that you included. 13:50.000 --> 13:52.000 So, there's nobody. 13:52.000 --> 13:56.000 It's just like saying, nobody has the top homepage on the web. 13:56.000 --> 13:57.000 Right? 13:57.000 --> 13:59.000 Nobody has the top homepage directory. 13:59.000 --> 14:03.000 And this is a major, major thing, because it's this thing really catches on. 14:03.000 --> 14:07.000 Then we can get directories on every subject. 14:07.000 --> 14:11.000 And we can also get two or two directories on every subject. 14:11.000 --> 14:14.000 Yeah, it's amazing how amazing this role hasn't happened for weblogs. 14:14.000 --> 14:18.000 You know, the people who have weblogs have directories. 14:18.000 --> 14:22.000 You know what, it was the order which things happened. 14:22.000 --> 14:25.000 Actually, was what made it not happen for weblogs. 14:25.000 --> 14:32.000 Because before we had any idea, this idea post-stage weblogs, 14:32.000 --> 14:36.000 this outline, you know, directory stuff came after weblogs. 14:36.000 --> 14:37.000 Right. 14:37.000 --> 14:38.000 But at the time, it came online. 14:38.000 --> 14:41.000 There were already tens of thousands of blogs. 14:41.000 --> 14:44.000 And so, people had learned to accept complete chaos. 14:44.000 --> 14:45.000 Okay. 14:45.000 --> 14:49.000 Then Google had come along and had been doing a pretty good job of indexing them. 14:49.000 --> 14:53.000 And there were directories like Yahoo and Google has directories. 14:53.000 --> 14:54.000 Oh, yeah. 14:54.000 --> 14:55.000 And all kinds of directories with them. 14:55.000 --> 14:56.000 Yeah. 14:56.000 --> 14:57.000 I presume lots of politics. 14:57.000 --> 14:58.000 Yeah. 14:58.000 --> 14:59.000 And politics. 14:59.000 --> 15:00.000 Yeah. 15:00.000 --> 15:02.000 Lots of politics in there. 15:02.000 --> 15:05.000 But what was it going to say? 15:05.000 --> 15:06.000 Yeah. 15:06.000 --> 15:10.000 It could go a lot further than simply just for podcasting, 15:10.000 --> 15:11.000 to be for everything. 15:11.000 --> 15:13.000 And you have three versions. 15:13.000 --> 15:17.000 You being the daddyo of, you being the daddyo of the outline. 15:17.000 --> 15:19.000 I heard you say it about 10 minutes ago. 15:19.000 --> 15:23.000 This must be like the ultimate dream to have one big outline, 15:23.000 --> 15:26.000 traversing the entire universe. 15:26.000 --> 15:27.000 Yeah. 15:28.000 --> 15:30.000 Oh, we called it the World Outline. 15:30.000 --> 15:33.000 I mean, that was done when we first put it all this together. 15:33.000 --> 15:36.000 It was like the World Wide Web and there's a World Outline. 15:36.000 --> 15:38.000 So in a sense, there's one outline. 15:38.000 --> 15:42.000 But in there are an incident number of ways of picking it up. 15:42.000 --> 15:47.000 And yeah, you know, I just talk about frontier being my life's work. 15:47.000 --> 15:49.000 That's actually not true. 15:49.000 --> 15:52.000 If this thing happens, then I'm going to hang them up. 15:52.000 --> 15:55.000 Boy, because I haven't gotten another idea in me. 15:56.000 --> 16:02.000 Well, it's funny because if you look at podcasting, which, of course, is built on RSS, 16:02.000 --> 16:06.000 which is at least a corner of your life's work. 16:06.000 --> 16:07.000 Yeah. 16:07.000 --> 16:13.000 And what's happening with the directory now, it seems like it's exploding. 16:13.000 --> 16:15.000 And I'm just sitting here waiting. 16:15.000 --> 16:17.000 And I've even seen people write about it. 16:17.000 --> 16:19.000 Okay, the hype will be over in three weeks. 16:19.000 --> 16:22.000 But, and I'm just going by bandwidth consumption. 16:22.000 --> 16:24.000 Let's just make that an easy one. 16:25.000 --> 16:28.000 It's, I know what you're going to say. 16:28.000 --> 16:31.000 So I'll just tell you how much I'm pushing out per day. 16:31.000 --> 16:34.000 It is now up to 37 gigabits a day. 16:34.000 --> 16:38.000 And I'm still doing the same amount of shows. 16:38.000 --> 16:41.000 Well, so, you know, of course, you're supposed to say, 16:41.000 --> 16:45.000 Hey, we need a bit to our end. 16:45.000 --> 16:48.000 Oh, it's very good. 16:48.000 --> 16:52.000 Hey, Dave, I got some, I got some listener feedback here. 16:52.000 --> 16:54.000 A message for you, actually. 16:54.000 --> 16:55.000 Yeah. 16:55.000 --> 16:56.000 Yeah, hold on, I'll play. 16:56.000 --> 16:57.000 Oh, yeah. 16:57.000 --> 16:58.000 Okay. 16:58.000 --> 16:59.000 Hi, Dave. 16:59.000 --> 17:03.000 This is Aldo Costignata from Medfield, Massachusetts. 17:03.000 --> 17:10.000 And I'm sending this because I wanted to reply in a way 17:10.000 --> 17:14.000 to Dave Winner's comments that you out on your show the other day 17:14.000 --> 17:19.000 about a link being one of the fundamental components of the web. 17:20.000 --> 17:23.000 I got me thinking, and I guess I've been thinking about this before. 17:23.000 --> 17:27.000 I heard that that really one of the kind of defining characteristics 17:27.000 --> 17:30.000 when I got that perhaps we don't think about it. 17:30.000 --> 17:33.000 Perhaps this is something to be the community out there that's particularly 17:33.000 --> 17:35.000 the open source community thinks about a lot. 17:35.000 --> 17:40.000 But is that the web provides an incredibly efficient way 17:40.000 --> 17:45.000 to measure ideas, to measure the value of ideas very early 17:45.000 --> 17:50.000 before without requiring huge capital investment. 17:50.000 --> 17:55.000 And I think this notion really if it hasn't been discussed much 17:55.000 --> 17:58.000 is one that's really worthy of focus and discussion, 17:58.000 --> 18:02.000 because I think it has huge implications, particularly for those people 18:02.000 --> 18:04.000 that are developing just for the love of it. 18:04.000 --> 18:07.000 You know, the iPod or community in essence. 18:07.000 --> 18:13.000 And that if the community can harness the value of an idea 18:14.000 --> 18:17.000 or can measure the value of an idea really early on, 18:17.000 --> 18:21.000 and can measure that throughout the life of an idea, 18:21.000 --> 18:24.000 then I think that that can give those people that devote themselves 18:24.000 --> 18:28.000 to it a lot of freedom in terms of finding interesting ways 18:28.000 --> 18:31.000 to get financing basically to get paid for what they do 18:31.000 --> 18:34.000 without, at the same time, having to give up the freedom 18:34.000 --> 18:39.000 in which they do it to, you know, they don't have to work for a corporation. 18:40.000 --> 18:43.000 Things like that, that's the core concept. 18:43.000 --> 18:47.000 And I guess what I want to do is just put that concept forward 18:47.000 --> 18:51.000 and see if there's interest in really trying to understand it 18:51.000 --> 18:54.000 or to find out if it's already something that's been thought about 18:54.000 --> 18:58.000 and dismissed and just put it out there. 18:58.000 --> 19:01.000 My email address is Aldo Aildio at the world, 19:01.000 --> 19:03.000 so if this ever gets out to your community 19:03.000 --> 19:05.000 and there's kind of an interest in researching it more, 19:05.000 --> 19:07.000 it's something that I'd actually really like to dedicate some time 19:07.000 --> 19:12.000 to research, because I think it could have really fundamental impact 19:12.000 --> 19:16.000 on the way we view open source and distributed development 19:16.000 --> 19:17.000 all of those things. 19:17.000 --> 19:18.000 All right, thanks a lot. 19:18.000 --> 19:20.000 Could you hear that Dave? 19:20.000 --> 19:22.000 Yeah, I heard the whole thing. 19:22.000 --> 19:25.000 I think it's bright. 19:25.000 --> 19:29.000 I'm not sure about it, it can generate financing, 19:29.000 --> 19:33.000 but, you know, there's a reason why the web 19:33.000 --> 19:37.000 has attracted all the hippies, you know, because, you know, 19:37.000 --> 19:41.000 as she's lighting up one, God, which I mean, 19:41.000 --> 19:43.000 yeah, I'm right there. 19:43.000 --> 19:46.000 And where is the gadget? 19:46.000 --> 19:48.000 This is what we don't talk about, 19:48.000 --> 19:50.000 but let's talk about it anyway. 19:50.000 --> 19:55.000 Okay, but, and Gadget was reviewing trade secrets. 19:55.000 --> 19:58.000 Yeah, and I thought they're doing a great job, 19:58.000 --> 20:03.000 and, you know, and, you know, support what they're doing. 20:03.000 --> 20:05.000 I'm a big fan of him, Gadget. 20:05.000 --> 20:09.000 And they said that, you know, basically, this is the best form of radio, 20:09.000 --> 20:13.000 because Adam's always doing bond hits on the, 20:13.000 --> 20:17.000 and they kind of, they kind of said, I'm doing it too, 20:17.000 --> 20:19.000 but I want to get that really clear. 20:19.000 --> 20:20.000 I'm not. 20:20.000 --> 20:23.000 You wouldn't live in a country where you've got to jail for that shit. 20:23.000 --> 20:27.000 So the next thing I don't want to hear is the DEA knocking down 20:27.000 --> 20:29.000 my door going, uh, DEA. 20:29.000 --> 20:30.000 What do you do? 20:30.000 --> 20:31.000 Dave's not here, man. 20:31.000 --> 20:33.000 Dave's not here. 20:33.000 --> 20:37.000 Anyway, to go back with, what was just me? 20:37.000 --> 20:38.000 I'll know, I'll know. 20:38.000 --> 20:39.000 I'll know. 20:39.000 --> 20:41.000 I'll know, Castaneda. 20:41.000 --> 20:45.000 Yeah, I mean, the, the web was about disintermediate, 20:45.000 --> 20:47.000 or the internet is about disintermediation, 20:47.000 --> 20:51.000 which means, the fancy words, which means, uh, 20:51.000 --> 20:53.000 getting rid of the intermediaries. 20:53.000 --> 20:55.000 And, um, you know, 20:55.000 --> 20:58.000 not that we didn't need intermediaries, because we did. 20:58.000 --> 21:00.000 I mean, in the era of centralization, 21:00.000 --> 21:03.000 it was all about intermediaries, um, 21:03.000 --> 21:06.000 you know, the big TV networks and radio networks. 21:06.000 --> 21:10.000 Um, you know, where do you get to news from the big airlines? 21:10.000 --> 21:14.000 Uh, everything had to be big in order for everybody to have it. 21:14.000 --> 21:18.000 And the internet says the information doesn't have to be like that. 21:18.000 --> 21:22.000 I don't have to be big in order for anybody to have the information that I produce. 21:22.000 --> 21:25.000 So as a result, you know, for the first 10 years, 21:25.000 --> 21:27.000 which is really about where we're at now, 21:27.000 --> 21:29.000 first 10 years of the web, 21:29.000 --> 21:33.000 we were focusing on text because the pipes were, you know, 21:33.000 --> 21:35.000 that's all we could actually handle. 21:35.000 --> 21:36.000 Pretty narrow. 21:36.000 --> 21:37.000 Right. 21:37.000 --> 21:39.000 And then the tools, the content development tools, 21:39.000 --> 21:41.000 the editing tools, the, you know, 21:41.000 --> 21:43.000 all the stuff that we're using now. 21:43.000 --> 21:44.000 Well, it isn't new. 21:44.000 --> 21:46.000 It got really affordable. 21:46.000 --> 21:48.000 Oh, I tell people this all the time, Dave. 21:48.000 --> 21:49.000 I mean, I, I invented the, 21:49.000 --> 21:51.000 yeah, 40,000 dollar website. 21:51.000 --> 21:53.000 You know, that was, that was, yeah. 21:53.000 --> 21:54.000 And why? 21:54.000 --> 21:55.000 Because it was people power. 21:55.000 --> 21:59.000 Guys writing code by hand and writing it in note pad and VI. 21:59.000 --> 22:03.000 And, you know, now it's the, the 40 dollar tool literally can do the same. 22:03.000 --> 22:05.000 If not better. 22:05.000 --> 22:06.000 Right. 22:06.000 --> 22:10.000 And so money now is, well, it is still an object. 22:10.000 --> 22:11.000 It's less of an object. 22:11.000 --> 22:14.000 And, um, and that means that we can now try to do radio. 22:14.000 --> 22:18.000 And, you know, Adam, we've been waiting trying to get this to bootstrap. 22:18.000 --> 22:23.000 You know, like I did a project last year with Chris Lydon, 22:23.000 --> 22:26.000 um, who was one of my colleagues at Berkman Center. 22:26.000 --> 22:29.000 And Chris did a series of interviews with bloggers and, you know, 22:29.000 --> 22:32.000 luminaries and these great stuff. 22:32.000 --> 22:35.000 And we produced an RSS 2.0 seed with includes enclosures. 22:35.000 --> 22:38.000 And, you know, people, some people listen to it, 22:38.000 --> 22:40.000 but it wasn't like daily source code. 22:40.000 --> 22:44.000 And it didn't take off like, you know, Dave slutters stuff 22:45.000 --> 22:48.000 or, uh, any of the things that we're seeing. 22:48.000 --> 22:50.000 And, you know, it may be that it wasn't a critical master. 22:50.000 --> 22:52.000 Maybe that time wasn't right. 22:52.000 --> 22:53.000 No, I didn't. 22:53.000 --> 22:54.000 There was no eye powder. 22:54.000 --> 22:57.000 I think Chris Lydon could do a great job now, 22:57.000 --> 23:00.000 if he would continue to release stuff on his RSS feed. 23:00.000 --> 23:03.000 And that, I think that's the only thing that happened today. 23:03.000 --> 23:04.000 Is that right? 23:04.000 --> 23:06.000 I think it was more than that. 23:06.000 --> 23:08.000 I think the eye powder was instrumental, 23:08.000 --> 23:11.000 but I think you doing one every day, right, 23:11.000 --> 23:14.000 a very big difference. 23:14.000 --> 23:15.000 Are you doing? 23:15.000 --> 23:16.000 Yeah, hold on. 23:16.000 --> 23:17.000 My battery just died. 23:17.000 --> 23:19.000 Talk amongst yourselves for a second. 23:19.000 --> 23:20.000 I just got a... 23:20.000 --> 23:21.000 No, I'll tell. 23:21.000 --> 23:22.000 Hold on a second. 23:22.000 --> 23:23.000 Let me grab my bag. 23:23.000 --> 23:24.000 Hold on. 23:26.000 --> 23:27.000 Okay. 23:27.000 --> 23:28.000 Maybe I should place the music. 23:28.000 --> 23:30.000 Well, Adam is out for it. 23:30.000 --> 23:32.000 And, uh, I haven't had something. 23:32.000 --> 23:34.000 I think I has something to do with this. 23:34.000 --> 23:36.000 This is all about casting is all about. 23:36.000 --> 23:38.000 Don't tell Adam that I did this. 23:38.000 --> 23:39.000 Here we go. 23:41.000 --> 23:42.000 They're good. 23:42.000 --> 23:43.000 I don't know. 23:43.000 --> 23:44.000 Come on, guys. 23:44.000 --> 23:45.000 Come on. 23:45.000 --> 23:46.000 Come on. 24:00.000 --> 24:03.000 It's become my favorite song. 24:03.000 --> 24:05.000 I live that one so much. 24:05.000 --> 24:07.000 Are you back? 24:07.000 --> 24:08.000 I don't know. 24:08.000 --> 24:14.000 I've got to make a turn this thing off. 24:14.000 --> 24:17.000 Anyone there? 24:17.000 --> 24:19.000 No, hold on. 24:19.000 --> 24:20.000 I'm here. 24:20.000 --> 24:21.000 I'm here. 24:21.000 --> 24:22.000 Are we recording? 24:22.000 --> 24:23.000 Yeah. 24:23.000 --> 24:24.000 I was funny. 24:24.000 --> 24:25.000 I'm here. 24:25.000 --> 24:27.000 I thought you missed a turn this up. 24:27.000 --> 24:28.000 Hold on. 24:28.000 --> 24:29.000 I just got to replace the battery. 24:29.000 --> 24:30.000 My transmitter. 24:30.000 --> 24:31.000 Hold on. 24:32.000 --> 24:36.000 How cool. 24:36.000 --> 24:41.000 We have to hold on while he's battery. 24:41.000 --> 24:45.000 Yeah, Doug K is going to interview me at four o'clock my time. 24:45.000 --> 24:46.000 So I had bought new batteries. 24:46.000 --> 24:49.000 We'll ask him not to listen to trade secret. 24:49.000 --> 24:51.000 No way. 24:51.000 --> 24:52.000 Oh, shit. 24:52.000 --> 24:54.000 Just hit my head on the left. 24:54.000 --> 24:55.000 All right. 24:55.000 --> 24:56.000 Now, wait a minute. 24:56.000 --> 24:58.000 I was going to say, oh, no. 24:59.000 --> 25:00.000 You know what happened Dave this morning? 25:00.000 --> 25:05.000 I was up early because I was interviewed by the Australian Broadcast Corporation. 25:05.000 --> 25:06.000 Or is it company? 25:06.000 --> 25:07.000 You are such a video player. 25:07.000 --> 25:08.000 I am. 25:08.000 --> 25:09.000 I am. 25:09.000 --> 25:10.000 I'm bending over and saying, come on. 25:10.000 --> 25:12.000 Are you Aussie? 25:12.000 --> 25:15.000 I bought me here, baby. 25:15.000 --> 25:18.000 So, so I looked it. 25:18.000 --> 25:21.000 I was looking over the iPod or dot org site. 25:21.000 --> 25:23.000 I did something really cool. 25:23.000 --> 25:25.000 I actually rewrote history. 25:25.000 --> 25:28.000 There's a section there that just called the history page. 25:28.000 --> 25:33.000 And it was kind of like just a running ramble of thoughts. 25:33.000 --> 25:38.000 And I've been telling the story so often for the past week to, you know, in interviews. 25:38.000 --> 25:41.000 Then I decided, let me just write down that story because that's the story. 25:41.000 --> 25:44.000 You know, and I could embellish a little bit more. 25:44.000 --> 25:47.000 But you should look at it because I went back and I traced the web blogs. 25:47.000 --> 25:49.000 I traced the web blog postings. 25:49.000 --> 25:51.000 I traced everything that happened. 25:51.000 --> 25:54.000 And it was, and I actually, and I wrote about this. 25:54.000 --> 25:59.000 I said, there's a couple things I did because I knew that I really wanted this thing, this iPodter. 25:59.000 --> 26:03.000 And I wasn't doing daily source code until I built iPodter. 26:03.000 --> 26:10.000 And in fact, the name daily source code at the time was chosen specifically to appeal to developers. 26:10.000 --> 26:13.000 That makes sense, right? 26:13.000 --> 26:17.000 And so I released the iPodter script. 26:17.000 --> 26:19.000 And then I actually blog this. 26:19.000 --> 26:22.000 And I said, hey, I'm just going to produce this every single day. 26:22.000 --> 26:27.000 So you all have something y'all, so y'all have y'all have something to work with. 26:27.000 --> 26:29.000 They talk like that in the middle. 26:29.000 --> 26:31.000 No, that's how developers talk. 26:31.000 --> 26:35.000 The y'all talk y'all y'all. 26:35.000 --> 26:37.000 So that's how it happened, Dave. 26:37.000 --> 26:39.000 And that was the difference really. 26:39.000 --> 26:41.000 I mean, that's what it was. 26:41.000 --> 26:45.000 It was just the people who looked at the script and said, oh, that's interesting. 26:45.000 --> 26:47.000 I can do that better. 26:47.000 --> 26:48.000 That's what it was. 26:49.000 --> 26:51.000 And I put a link to that. 26:51.000 --> 26:54.000 Yeah, did you see the history page? 26:54.000 --> 26:55.000 I do. 26:55.000 --> 27:01.000 I think I represented your your contributions correctly. 27:01.000 --> 27:02.000 If not, let me know. 27:02.000 --> 27:06.000 Yeah, I'm still really trying to take the back seat here because, you know, 27:06.000 --> 27:09.000 it's you're doing, I mean, I don't want to stroke you too much, 27:09.000 --> 27:11.000 but you're doing such a good job here. 27:11.000 --> 27:16.000 And every technology would be good to have somebody who sort of like, 27:16.000 --> 27:19.000 you know, doing the art of it, the content. 27:19.000 --> 27:22.000 And then somebody else is sort of thinking about, okay, 27:22.000 --> 27:24.000 well, what's the next step in the infrastructure? 27:24.000 --> 27:26.000 That's why we're a great team. 27:26.000 --> 27:27.000 That's why we're good. 27:27.000 --> 27:28.000 Yeah, no. 27:28.000 --> 27:29.000 We're good. 27:29.000 --> 27:30.000 We're good. 27:30.000 --> 27:32.000 We're good. 27:32.000 --> 27:33.000 We're good. 27:33.000 --> 27:34.000 We're, but we should say that. 27:34.000 --> 27:36.000 We should, but we should say we're good. 27:36.000 --> 27:38.000 It's a, it's a blogger con. 27:38.000 --> 27:40.000 We should hand them out too. 27:40.000 --> 27:41.000 I do. 27:41.000 --> 27:42.000 Hi, we're good. 27:42.000 --> 27:44.000 I'm a blogger. 27:44.000 --> 27:45.000 I'm good. 27:46.000 --> 27:47.000 You can go with that. 27:47.000 --> 27:49.000 No, I'm a pot actually. 27:49.000 --> 27:51.000 Doug K had a really cool thing. 27:51.000 --> 27:55.000 He was trying to figure out the, the verbiage of pot casting. 27:55.000 --> 27:56.000 Oh, man. 27:56.000 --> 28:00.000 Um, and so he asked the question, well, what, okay, 28:00.000 --> 28:03.000 pot casting must be the creation of this, right? 28:03.000 --> 28:07.000 What we're doing right now, or we're getting ready to do a podcast. 28:07.000 --> 28:10.000 Because the podcast is when you wind up and you throw it, right? 28:10.000 --> 28:11.000 Yeah, you get this. 28:11.000 --> 28:13.000 The podcast is, we're pod pulling. 28:13.000 --> 28:14.000 Right. 28:14.000 --> 28:16.000 And so just what he came. 28:16.000 --> 28:17.000 Yeah, right. 28:17.000 --> 28:18.000 So I'm going to go there with. 28:18.000 --> 28:23.000 So he said, then, what is listening is listening also podcasting? 28:23.000 --> 28:24.000 Or is it podcasting? 28:24.000 --> 28:25.000 No. 28:25.000 --> 28:27.000 It's a podcasting, exactly. 28:27.000 --> 28:29.000 And so, and it's funny thing. 28:29.000 --> 28:31.000 What is this that I had bought that? 28:31.000 --> 28:32.000 You bought that domain name. 28:32.000 --> 28:33.000 Yeah. 28:33.000 --> 28:36.000 I remember a podcast, and then I, and I still have it. 28:36.000 --> 28:38.000 I have an interesting one. 28:38.000 --> 28:41.000 I have a, I have a really, really good one. 28:41.000 --> 28:44.000 But always use, I kept the still name for many, many years. 28:44.000 --> 28:47.000 It's, uh, clambumping.org. 28:47.000 --> 28:54.000 It's a little bit like the bad thing that I've never, my clambumping. 28:54.000 --> 28:57.000 So somebody asked me, I, you both got this interview too. 28:57.000 --> 28:58.000 I bet you did. 28:58.000 --> 28:59.000 Which one? 28:59.000 --> 29:04.000 The yesterday, eric at, uh, OGR. 29:04.000 --> 29:06.000 Oh yeah, yeah. 29:06.000 --> 29:09.000 Written, written interview. 29:09.000 --> 29:12.000 No, I actually do those voice. I never do written interviews. 29:12.000 --> 29:16.000 Oh, he sent me a whole bunch of questions. I was the only written one I did. I figured. 29:16.000 --> 29:18.000 And that's actually based on that. 29:18.000 --> 29:19.000 How are they? 29:19.000 --> 29:20.000 I what? 29:20.000 --> 29:23.000 That's the best news holiday. I write all day anyway. 29:23.000 --> 29:24.000 So I think I have been doing it here. 29:24.000 --> 29:25.000 Right. So yeah. 29:25.000 --> 29:26.000 I spoke to him. 29:26.000 --> 29:27.000 Yeah. 29:27.000 --> 29:28.000 He has some good questions about making it. 29:28.000 --> 29:29.000 So yeah. 29:29.000 --> 29:33.000 Well, he asked if there was a connection between Howard Stern and podcasting. 29:33.000 --> 29:35.000 It was also happening at the same time. 29:35.000 --> 29:40.000 And I said, you know, well, it's good. Basically we're all spreading out. 29:40.000 --> 29:41.000 We're trying out a lot of the ideas. 29:41.000 --> 29:48.000 I honestly think that the satellite radio is going to catch on to podcasting and use it effectively 29:48.000 --> 29:49.000 before they get Howard Stern. 29:49.000 --> 29:51.000 Oh, really? I think it'll happen before. 29:51.000 --> 29:52.000 Yeah. Well, before 2006. 29:52.000 --> 29:53.000 Why not? 29:53.000 --> 29:54.000 Yeah. 29:54.000 --> 29:55.000 They have a distribution system. 29:55.000 --> 29:56.000 Yeah. 29:56.000 --> 29:59.000 Right. I mean, can you imagine having XM radio for your home? 29:59.000 --> 30:02.000 And connecting it up to your computer. 30:02.000 --> 30:06.000 And, you know, doing the TV thing from your computer. 30:06.000 --> 30:07.000 Or conversely. 30:07.000 --> 30:11.000 Conversely, having what they should have a channel that does nothing more than 30:11.000 --> 30:16.000 subscribes to five different feeds and just broadcast whatever it comes up against. 30:16.000 --> 30:17.000 That would be cool too. 30:17.000 --> 30:20.000 That's exactly exactly right. Why not? 30:20.000 --> 30:23.000 Or, you know, give you a guy like Adam Curry, right? 30:23.000 --> 30:25.000 I mean, do you have a track record for doing this stuff? 30:25.000 --> 30:26.000 Yeah. 30:26.000 --> 30:27.000 Give me a goddamn channel. 30:27.000 --> 30:29.000 Put me on the bird, baby. 30:30.000 --> 30:33.000 Actually, I was just going to give you a hundred million dollars. 30:33.000 --> 30:35.000 Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. 30:35.000 --> 30:36.000 Let me retrieve that statement. 30:36.000 --> 30:37.000 Look at me saying. 30:37.000 --> 30:38.000 Oh. 30:38.000 --> 30:39.000 Channel the bird. 30:39.000 --> 30:40.000 100 million dollars. 30:40.000 --> 30:41.000 I'm calling NASA. 30:41.000 --> 30:43.000 We're blessing off our own damn spaceship. 30:46.000 --> 30:48.000 Hey, don't get it started. 30:48.000 --> 30:50.000 I like the way you open the business. 30:50.000 --> 30:52.000 Would you shuttle for 75? 30:52.000 --> 30:55.000 I could barely do it. 30:55.000 --> 30:58.000 I should probably work that out with them. 30:58.000 --> 31:02.000 Maybe we will pick cash for like 65 if you want to go for that. 31:02.000 --> 31:03.000 You get cash. 31:03.000 --> 31:04.000 Yeah, right. 31:04.000 --> 31:07.000 If you want to tax three, tax three, get it for 50. 31:07.000 --> 31:10.000 I want to blow the doors off of broadcasting. 31:10.000 --> 31:11.000 That's what I want to do. 31:11.000 --> 31:14.000 This is, I think I'm finally finding my life's mission. 31:14.000 --> 31:15.000 I mean, I was listening. 31:15.000 --> 31:18.000 Did you hear the Steve Wazniak speech at? 31:18.000 --> 31:20.000 No, I haven't. 31:20.000 --> 31:22.000 Well, it's keep talking about it. 31:22.000 --> 31:23.000 Yeah. 31:23.000 --> 31:24.000 Well, it was, it was podcasts. 31:24.000 --> 31:25.000 IT conversations put it up. 31:25.000 --> 31:28.000 And I sat there listening as Wazniak, 31:28.000 --> 31:29.000 who can't be much older than I am. 31:29.000 --> 31:30.000 What is he easy about your age? 31:30.000 --> 31:31.000 So about 49? 31:31.000 --> 31:32.000 No. 31:32.000 --> 31:34.000 He's older than me. 31:34.000 --> 31:35.000 He's older than me. 31:35.000 --> 31:36.000 Probably. 31:36.000 --> 31:37.000 Yeah. 31:37.000 --> 31:38.000 Because he was out of your heart. 31:38.000 --> 31:41.000 He was doing the same things as a kid that I was doing. 31:41.000 --> 31:42.000 I was reading Tom Swift Jr. 31:42.000 --> 31:46.000 By the way, it's been, I've been keeping this secret. 31:46.000 --> 31:47.000 But hey, this is straight secret. 31:47.000 --> 31:49.000 So I'm going to keep it this secret for a long time. 31:49.000 --> 31:54.000 I've secretly been doing an audio book of Tom Swift. 31:54.000 --> 32:00.000 Because they're all on the Gutenberg project. 32:00.000 --> 32:02.000 These books are more than 100 years old. 32:02.000 --> 32:05.000 So of course, that would mean that Wazniak, 32:05.000 --> 32:06.000 that old too. 32:06.000 --> 32:12.000 But he also used the radio shack 101 projects in one. 32:12.000 --> 32:13.000 You know, all that shit. 32:13.000 --> 32:14.000 I was like, my God. 32:14.000 --> 32:17.000 But I had, you know, at a certain point, 32:17.000 --> 32:19.000 it switched to broadcasting when I was about 15. 32:19.000 --> 32:21.000 I built my first transmitter. 32:21.000 --> 32:23.000 He was also a ham radio operator and built stuff. 32:23.000 --> 32:26.000 And just about when I got to the end and the, 32:26.000 --> 32:28.000 and the or and the logic gates, 32:28.000 --> 32:30.000 is where I went off into broadcasting. 32:30.000 --> 32:33.000 And I think I made a mark. 32:33.000 --> 32:34.000 It may be a hairy one. 32:34.000 --> 32:36.000 I made a mark in broadcasting. 32:36.000 --> 32:40.000 Certainly on the MTV and on the radio stations around the world. 32:40.000 --> 32:42.000 And then it was the internet. 32:42.000 --> 32:45.000 I was right at the beginning of, 32:45.000 --> 32:49.000 yeah, I was certainly one of those responsible for commercializing the net. 32:49.000 --> 32:51.000 Whether that's a good or bad thing is up in the air. 32:51.000 --> 32:53.000 I think it's good personally. 32:53.000 --> 32:57.000 And you know, and then I just had like five years of 32:57.000 --> 33:00.000 dicking around and nothing really, 33:00.000 --> 33:02.000 you know, learn how to fly helicopters. 33:02.000 --> 33:03.000 That's nice. 33:03.000 --> 33:06.000 And it's, you know, tried to start a couple things 33:06.000 --> 33:09.000 and lost some money here and there and made a little bit. 33:09.000 --> 33:11.000 And, you know, but just became the user, 33:11.000 --> 33:13.000 which is what I promised myself. 33:13.000 --> 33:15.000 And then all of a sudden boom, you know, 33:15.000 --> 33:16.000 here's, oh, wait a minute, 33:16.000 --> 33:17.000 there's something else. 33:17.000 --> 33:20.000 And I'm kind of leading the charges. 33:20.000 --> 33:21.000 It's really exciting. 33:21.000 --> 33:23.000 You know, this may be what I'm supposed to do. 33:23.000 --> 33:24.000 That's what you did in the last. 33:24.000 --> 33:28.000 That's what you did in the last five years you learned. 33:28.000 --> 33:32.000 You are assimilated and, you know, learned how to do. 33:32.000 --> 33:33.000 We all did. 33:33.000 --> 33:37.000 I mean, you know, five years ago, five years ago, 33:37.000 --> 33:42.000 I had never, you know, never once the standard. 33:42.000 --> 33:46.000 I mean, I had once things would become standards, right? 33:46.000 --> 33:49.000 But I didn't know how to, you know, 33:49.000 --> 33:52.000 how to get other people to do what I was doing. 33:52.000 --> 33:55.000 And to start tripped over that, you know, 33:55.000 --> 33:59.000 that basically, if you want somebody to do something, 33:59.000 --> 34:00.000 then you need to do it first. 34:00.000 --> 34:02.000 And that's the big secret. 34:02.000 --> 34:04.000 You know, you can't stand back and say, 34:04.000 --> 34:07.000 well, I'll do this and everybody else would you all just do that? 34:07.000 --> 34:08.000 No, it doesn't work. 34:08.000 --> 34:09.000 They simply won't do that. 34:09.000 --> 34:10.000 They won't do that. 34:10.000 --> 34:11.000 They won't do what you're doing. 34:11.000 --> 34:13.000 You know, say, okay, well, who do you do? 34:13.000 --> 34:15.000 We'll just copy you and whatever. 34:15.000 --> 34:18.000 And, you know, that was the first quite frustrating 34:19.000 --> 34:21.000 because I said, well, she's already doing that. 34:21.000 --> 34:22.000 Let me do that. 34:22.000 --> 34:23.000 You do something else. 34:23.000 --> 34:26.000 And then I realized that, that, 34:26.000 --> 34:28.000 okay, I just learned to accept that. 34:28.000 --> 34:29.000 Okay, number one. 34:29.000 --> 34:30.000 Yeah. 34:30.000 --> 34:34.000 And then I started when I, when the thought popped in my head is, 34:34.000 --> 34:36.000 I wish everyone would do X, 34:36.000 --> 34:38.000 and then all I did was start doing X, 34:38.000 --> 34:40.000 and seeing how great it was. 34:40.000 --> 34:41.000 You know, I can't believe it. 34:41.000 --> 34:43.000 And I always meant it. 34:43.000 --> 34:44.000 You know what I mean? 34:44.000 --> 34:46.000 It wasn't like I was saying that. 34:46.000 --> 34:47.000 I wanted to do it. 34:47.000 --> 34:49.000 Right, I was doing it saying it was great 34:49.000 --> 34:51.000 because I was really, you know, 34:51.000 --> 34:52.000 well, what I was doing. 34:52.000 --> 34:56.000 And so excited and trying to get everybody else excited about it. 34:56.000 --> 34:59.000 And so, you've now done that. 34:59.000 --> 35:03.000 And that's, you know, that's something to be quite proud of. 35:03.000 --> 35:06.000 I mean, you actually got people to copy you. 35:06.000 --> 35:12.000 And that is how you create these swells of activity. 35:12.000 --> 35:14.000 And then the question is, does it have legs? 35:14.000 --> 35:16.000 And I'm sure this does. 35:16.000 --> 35:19.000 I mean, I was sure, I was sure it had legs, 35:19.000 --> 35:21.000 and we were sitting in a hotel in New York. 35:21.000 --> 35:23.000 Yeah, was a 99, wasn't it? 35:23.000 --> 35:24.000 Yeah, I knew. 35:24.000 --> 35:26.000 I think it was 2000, but, you know, it was like, 35:26.000 --> 35:28.000 when the light bulb went on for me, 35:28.000 --> 35:31.000 and I, oh shit, that's a good idea. 35:31.000 --> 35:32.000 You know? 35:32.000 --> 35:35.000 So, so, how did this like, hand-dude? 35:35.000 --> 35:36.000 Yeah. 35:36.000 --> 35:37.000 Yeah. 35:37.000 --> 35:38.000 Like, celebrity. 35:38.000 --> 35:39.000 Yeah. 35:39.000 --> 35:40.000 Did he figure this? 35:40.000 --> 35:41.000 Yeah. 35:41.000 --> 35:42.000 Yeah. 35:42.000 --> 35:45.000 You're, you're, your star had to fade a little bit before. 35:45.000 --> 35:47.000 I, a, before it can really shine. 35:47.000 --> 35:49.000 Well, before they're ready to let you have another career. 35:49.000 --> 35:50.000 You see, that's true. 35:50.000 --> 35:51.000 That's true. 35:51.000 --> 35:52.000 Say that about you anymore. 35:52.000 --> 35:53.000 They don't hear that. 35:53.000 --> 35:55.000 You know, they don't say okay, well, Adam Curry. 35:55.000 --> 35:56.000 I'll hear you forgot with the hair. 35:56.000 --> 35:57.000 You don't hear that. 35:57.000 --> 35:58.000 But, sorry. 35:58.000 --> 35:59.000 Not much. 35:59.000 --> 36:00.000 It's still around. 36:00.000 --> 36:01.000 Yeah. 36:01.000 --> 36:02.000 It's a reference. 36:02.000 --> 36:03.000 It's like, a beat. 36:03.000 --> 36:04.000 I have, yeah. 36:04.000 --> 36:05.000 It's a beat. 36:05.000 --> 36:08.000 But, I have to explain to some people who you are, 36:08.000 --> 36:09.000 and what your background is, people, 36:09.000 --> 36:10.000 and just you didn't know. 36:10.000 --> 36:11.000 You think, well, do yousware were they in the 80s, right? 36:11.000 --> 36:18.000 They obviously weren't around what you were doing and where they forgot or that's also possible 36:18.000 --> 36:20.000 I forgot a lot about the ages to 36:21.000 --> 36:24.600 Well, you don't think they say about the 60s if you remember to be weren't there 36:26.000 --> 36:32.000 So I've been listening and I've been subscribing to the coma 1000 news feed. Oh, that's so awesome 36:32.000 --> 36:38.560 Yeah, I got one that I want to play. Here's a short news story. These are great because about 45 minutes and they come in neatly bundled pack 36:39.560 --> 36:47.360 45 seconds. Sorry. Yeah, this is this is a this is from her who gives us tips on how to use our computers and as it may be left 36:47.560 --> 36:48.560 But I you know 36:48.560 --> 36:50.560 This is also a good way to you know 36:50.560 --> 36:53.560 Well, I'll talk about content routing in a second 36:53.560 --> 37:02.560 But here's a herb with is a computer tip. Oh, don't click that link the opt-out link on spam email messages clicking it won't do any good 37:02.560 --> 37:08.560 An according to message labs a leading email security service. It may let a hacker take over your computer 37:08.560 --> 37:14.560 The spammers are putting special code in those click here to opt-out links the moment you click on it. They turn your computer into a zombie 37:14.560 --> 37:21.560 Bob Sullivan technology correspondent for MSNBC says they do that by hiding a Trojan horse program on your system 37:21.560 --> 37:26.560 Once this Trojan is installed on your computer, they can do anything with your computer that you could do 37:26.560 --> 37:32.560 They can send out as much spam as they want for your computer, and that's probably why they're doing it, but they can also move around the internet using your computer 37:32.560 --> 37:38.560 They could use your computer to attack another computer and of course they could feel all your personal information from it. So how do you protect yourself? 37:38.560 --> 37:45.560 MSNBC's Bob Sullivan says the safest thing you can do is to read your email and plain text and not HTML format 37:45.560 --> 37:51.560 You should also have your web browser in a high security setting. Keep your anti-virus software up to date 37:52.560 --> 37:56.560 You put a ginormous condom all over yourself and you're computer 37:56.560 --> 38:04.560 And ever click the unsubscribed link in a spam message and that's today's tip. I'm her voice bomb the consumer man looking out for you 38:04.560 --> 38:10.560 On Como 1000 news. I love that. I feel so much safer. The herb is looking out for us 38:10.560 --> 38:12.560 Oh, it's a good guy 38:12.560 --> 38:15.560 He's great, but he's saying all the right things 38:15.560 --> 38:21.560 I got to go and see those guys. They're local. I'm here in Seattle there in Seattle. We've got to find that. We've got some soulwriters here 38:21.560 --> 38:24.560 But they're doing is so incredibly cool 38:24.560 --> 38:30.560 I want to tell you a little story. Yeah, go for it. It's a real much time 38:30.560 --> 38:35.560 We had the Thursday evening meetings at Berkman. We would do them every Thursday 38:35.560 --> 38:40.560 There's open meeting for all blotters, not just people at Harvard, but just anybody in the area 38:40.560 --> 38:46.560 And people that would come in town and they'd come by and see us. One of the regulars of those meetings is Lisa Williams 38:46.560 --> 38:50.560 And we were talking about, that's a good example of what we're talking about 38:50.560 --> 38:52.560 The nature of the web came up or blogs or whatever 38:52.560 --> 38:58.560 And she said that blogs are like, you know, food that you can eat 38:58.560 --> 39:02.560 Like, okay, like food you can eat with chopsticks 39:02.560 --> 39:07.560 And asked for an explanation said, well, you know, if you look at what 39:07.560 --> 39:12.560 You know, Chinese food is, you know, is that they design their food 39:12.560 --> 39:16.560 So that it can be eaten with chopsticks and you stop and think about it and it's true 39:16.560 --> 39:20.560 There are these little chunks. They're already pre-sliced everything's already free 39:20.560 --> 39:24.560 They just pick it up and put it in your mouth, which isn't like Western food 39:24.560 --> 39:26.560 Which is designed to be eaten with a fork and knife 39:26.560 --> 39:29.560 So you like the steak is like that, right? 39:29.560 --> 39:35.560 And then she was saying that the blogs are like Chinese food 39:35.560 --> 39:42.560 That way, they're these little morsels, little, you know, those standalone things 39:42.560 --> 39:48.560 And that's what struck me about the kamo, you know, podcast seed 39:48.560 --> 39:51.560 Is that what they're doing like you said in your daily source code 39:51.560 --> 39:55.560 Is that, okay, they're now giving me the daily news in a form 39:55.560 --> 39:58.560 Where, okay, if I'm not interested, just hit the fast forward 39:58.560 --> 40:00.560 But then I'm onto the next one. 40:00.560 --> 40:02.560 Now that's a revolution. 40:02.560 --> 40:07.560 And the next step, of course, is, you know, subscribe to the general interest feed here 40:07.560 --> 40:10.560 Or the sports feed or, you know, that's the next step 40:10.560 --> 40:16.560 Yeah, it's, it's putting a lot more, the user is a lot more in control 40:16.560 --> 40:20.560 And yet there's nothing about it that says you can't like make money doing this 40:20.560 --> 40:23.560 There's another business models are negated 40:23.560 --> 40:25.560 However, they will have to deal with more competition 40:25.560 --> 40:29.560 Because there's not this scarce resource called bandwidth 40:29.560 --> 40:32.560 I mean, or frequency effects or effects or effects 40:32.560 --> 40:34.560 Spect malfeventor complètement likely 40:34.560 --> 40:36.560 Let's not turn, sorry, I'm not young, you can jersey 40:36.560 --> 40:38.560 But yeah, it's wonderful they took the lead 40:38.560 --> 40:42.560 In what you're doing with the wg vi8 Boston, that's fantastic 40:42.560 --> 40:46.560 Yeah, there there's a lot more of that, it's so exciting 40:46.560 --> 40:50.560 I got another, kind of audit comment 40:50.560 --> 40:57.560 Have you ever listened to the Don and Drew show? 40:57.560 --> 41:02.060 I've only heard clips from New Yorkshire, I had not listened to it yet. 41:02.060 --> 41:03.060 That's funny, man. 41:03.060 --> 41:04.560 You really have listened to it. 41:04.560 --> 41:05.560 Yeah, it's funny. 41:05.560 --> 41:10.060 You know, they wind up talking about how, you know, Dawn is saying, okay. 41:10.060 --> 41:13.060 So when you sit down to pee, you know, does your wiener get wet? 41:13.060 --> 41:15.560 And it's like, it's like, and they're really honest. 41:15.560 --> 41:16.560 These are really honest ones. 41:16.560 --> 41:18.560 He was a question thought everybody's mind, right? 41:18.560 --> 41:20.560 I mean, yeah, I guess so. 41:20.560 --> 41:24.560 You know, it would have been a war in Iraq if we knew the answer is out. 41:25.560 --> 41:26.560 Hold on. 41:26.560 --> 41:29.560 Here's a comment, Drew sent in. 41:29.560 --> 41:33.560 Actually, it was probably for the source code, but since this is my recording 41:33.560 --> 41:35.560 Venture for today, we'll use it here. 41:35.560 --> 41:38.560 Hey, Adam, it's Drew from the Dawn and Drew show. 41:38.560 --> 41:42.560 I just, that I try out this audio comment type of thing. 41:42.560 --> 41:45.560 It just seems like the cool thing to do these days. 41:45.560 --> 41:50.560 But I was checking out your podcast today and you were referencing 41:50.560 --> 41:51.560 What's this name? 41:51.560 --> 41:53.560 Go Hagen. 41:54.560 --> 41:55.560 He doesn't for us. 41:55.560 --> 41:57.560 Yeah, Adam, it's Michael Go Hagen. 41:57.560 --> 41:58.560 Michael Go Hagen. 41:58.560 --> 42:00.560 Okay, here's some feedback. 42:00.560 --> 42:04.560 Michael Go Hagen, he had, you know, he was mentioning the whole genre thing. 42:04.560 --> 42:08.560 And I just thought that was really interesting because I hadn't really 42:08.560 --> 42:10.560 realized that it was even an issue. 42:10.560 --> 42:12.560 I had been doing it since the, 42:12.560 --> 42:14.560 I think I did it from like the third show. 42:14.560 --> 42:18.560 I started adding all the metadata and then I went back in and 42:18.560 --> 42:21.560 read it all the metadata, even back to the very first show. 42:21.560 --> 42:25.560 But he grabs all of them as it was going through the metadata, 42:25.560 --> 42:27.560 the ID3 tags inside iTunes. 42:27.560 --> 42:30.560 I realized that you could type in the genre tag. 42:30.560 --> 42:32.560 So I just went ahead and put podcast. 42:32.560 --> 42:34.560 And I've been doing it ever since. 42:34.560 --> 42:37.560 And I just think it's, you know, it's pretty cool that I was just like 42:37.560 --> 42:41.560 forcing that genre upon anybody and everybody's iTunes. 42:41.560 --> 42:45.560 So interesting that, you know, that was what you guys are talking about. 42:45.560 --> 42:48.560 And, you know, I'd been doing that and not that I'm like the pioneers 42:48.560 --> 42:49.560 that or anything. 42:49.560 --> 42:50.560 I just think it's cool. 42:50.560 --> 42:52.560 I think it's totally appropriate. 42:52.560 --> 42:57.560 And we should definitely force our agenda on the masses. 42:57.560 --> 42:59.560 So yeah, hey, awesome show. 42:59.560 --> 43:03.560 Thanks again for, I mean, you inadvertently plugged our show again 43:03.560 --> 43:06.560 by playing that podcast from Canada. 43:06.560 --> 43:07.560 All right. 43:07.560 --> 43:10.560 So then he goes on to thank me profusely. 43:10.560 --> 43:12.560 But these are just users, man. 43:12.560 --> 43:15.560 These are just people who are just digging you doing this. 43:16.560 --> 43:17.560 You got to be careful. 43:17.560 --> 43:20.560 I found out the back calling people users. 43:20.560 --> 43:22.560 They think they don't like it. 43:22.560 --> 43:24.560 I would like to see themselves. 43:24.560 --> 43:25.560 Yeah. 43:25.560 --> 43:27.560 They don't necessarily see themselves that way. 43:27.560 --> 43:29.560 The other thing I was thinking about is listening. 43:29.560 --> 43:31.560 I didn't hear most of what he said. 43:31.560 --> 43:33.560 Because the assistants are getting ready. 43:33.560 --> 43:34.560 Yeah, okay. 43:34.560 --> 43:36.560 You must be doing an iPod or skin right now. 43:36.560 --> 43:37.560 No, I have everything off. 43:37.560 --> 43:39.560 I've almost shared drugs or disconnected. 43:39.560 --> 43:41.560 I'm standing on a list. 43:41.560 --> 43:42.560 I'm probably doing one there. 43:42.560 --> 43:43.560 Yeah, you probably. 43:43.560 --> 43:46.560 You're aggregating your aggregator's sucking shit down. 43:46.560 --> 43:51.560 I think Adam, it's getting pretty close to time for some awards. 43:51.560 --> 43:55.560 Yeah, I think you're home page. 43:55.560 --> 43:57.560 That's the thing. 43:57.560 --> 43:59.560 Well, now I'm not saying this is just, you know. 43:59.560 --> 44:03.560 The reason is that people mostly, we talk about this with developers, right? 44:03.560 --> 44:05.560 You know, what a developers want. 44:05.560 --> 44:08.560 90% of what a developer wants is to be appreciated. 44:08.560 --> 44:11.560 That's part of knowledge to be seen. 44:11.560 --> 44:18.560 You know, it's a visibility through their creativity, which is the best way for somebody to be visible. 44:18.560 --> 44:21.560 You know, you don't want somebody to be, then, 44:21.560 --> 44:25.560 to have to create visibility by, you know, flaming you on a mail list. 44:25.560 --> 44:26.560 Right? 44:26.560 --> 44:27.560 Right. 44:27.560 --> 44:30.560 So, you know, so we're still in good viable hands here. 44:30.560 --> 44:33.560 And maybe we can figure out a way, you know, 44:33.560 --> 44:36.560 can't just be, you know, I don't know how we do it. 44:36.560 --> 44:39.560 But it'd be great to sort of give everybody 44:39.560 --> 44:42.560 who's done a podcast right now, 44:42.560 --> 44:47.560 some way of being part of something, like an initiation or, you know, 44:47.560 --> 44:49.560 because these are the good energy people. 44:49.560 --> 44:52.560 These are people who are going to remember when it was wonderful. 44:52.560 --> 44:55.560 National association of hardcasters. 44:56.560 --> 44:57.560 That's not the, M.A. 44:57.560 --> 44:59.560 M.A. 44:59.560 --> 45:00.560 M.A. 45:00.560 --> 45:01.560 M.A. 45:01.560 --> 45:02.560 M.A. 45:02.560 --> 45:03.560 M.A. 45:03.560 --> 45:04.560 M.A. 45:04.560 --> 45:06.560 I'm going to the map for the meeting. 45:06.560 --> 45:07.560 That's a big show. 45:07.560 --> 45:08.560 No. 45:08.560 --> 45:09.560 Left work out. 45:09.560 --> 45:10.560 Yeah. 45:10.560 --> 45:14.560 What are you doing at or around bloggerCon or how it has to happen after bloggerCon? 45:14.560 --> 45:15.560 Because that's okay. 45:15.560 --> 45:16.560 That's okay. 45:16.560 --> 45:17.560 Okay. 45:17.560 --> 45:18.560 We're going to have a podcast. 45:18.560 --> 45:20.560 This is what Doug K asked for. 45:20.560 --> 45:21.560 We got to do it. 45:21.560 --> 45:23.560 We're going to have a podcast just in our side. 45:23.560 --> 45:24.560 There you go. 45:24.560 --> 45:25.560 Okay. 45:25.560 --> 45:26.560 Yeah. 45:26.560 --> 45:28.560 It'll be a good podcast. 45:28.560 --> 45:32.560 It'll be recorded about 80,000 different ways. 45:32.560 --> 45:36.560 No doubt they'll be a record of that one. 45:36.560 --> 45:38.560 It's like a jambory on the air. 45:38.560 --> 45:39.560 Everybody. 45:39.560 --> 45:40.560 Everybody. 45:40.560 --> 45:41.560 Everybody. 45:41.560 --> 45:42.560 I have a question for you. 45:42.560 --> 45:43.560 I gotta ask you this. 45:43.560 --> 45:49.560 You were going about your college radio experience saying, 45:50.560 --> 45:51.560 Everybody. 45:51.560 --> 45:52.560 Everybody. 45:52.560 --> 45:53.560 Everybody. 45:53.560 --> 45:54.560 Everybody. 45:54.560 --> 45:55.560 Right. 45:55.560 --> 45:57.560 Where the fuck does that come from? 45:57.560 --> 45:58.560 Well, what happens a lot? 45:58.560 --> 46:00.560 How would stir that way of pronouncing it? 46:00.560 --> 46:02.560 Oh, that way of pronouncing it? 46:02.560 --> 46:03.560 Yeah. 46:03.560 --> 46:09.560 It's because that is a takeoff of a takeoff of a takeoff on the way old fashioned 46:09.560 --> 46:14.560 announcers talk and what you notice in the radio business. 46:15.560 --> 46:18.560 Guys, on the real radio, not podcasting with broadcasting. 46:18.560 --> 46:22.560 They're always, you know, you'll set stand next to them in the studio and listen. 46:22.560 --> 46:24.560 They're screaming most of them like everybody. 46:24.560 --> 46:25.560 It's a W-T-Z-E-1 100. 46:25.560 --> 46:26.560 We'll take all the 100 out. 46:26.560 --> 46:28.560 What did it do for D-Z-1 100? 46:28.560 --> 46:30.560 That's from D-E-1 100. 46:30.560 --> 46:31.560 Right. 46:31.560 --> 46:32.560 So. 46:32.560 --> 46:33.560 I've had this. 46:33.560 --> 46:34.560 I've had this. 46:34.560 --> 46:35.560 I've had this. 46:35.560 --> 46:36.560 Wait, hold on a bit. 46:36.560 --> 46:37.560 While I regain my exposure. 46:37.560 --> 46:38.560 Right. 46:38.560 --> 46:40.560 Well, so then the other one is. 46:41.560 --> 46:45.560 107.5 W-L-T-W playing the best of the set. 46:45.560 --> 46:47.560 Yeah, like the eighties and the nineties. 46:47.560 --> 46:48.560 We're the mix. 46:48.560 --> 46:49.560 Yeah. 46:49.560 --> 46:50.560 I can do that one. 46:50.560 --> 46:51.560 Yeah. 46:51.560 --> 46:53.560 Sports on W-T-W. 46:53.560 --> 46:54.560 Yeah. 46:54.560 --> 46:56.560 No, that had to be kind of like the muffled microphone. 46:56.560 --> 46:59.560 It was like Jonathan Schwartz on W-N-E-W. 46:59.560 --> 47:00.560 That's him. 47:00.560 --> 47:01.560 No, you're overdoing it. 47:01.560 --> 47:03.560 He was the focus and seeer. 47:03.560 --> 47:05.560 He was sort of like your best friend, 47:05.560 --> 47:07.560 but the best friend of your girlfriend. 47:07.560 --> 47:08.560 Right. 47:08.560 --> 47:11.560 So he would like, he could do the trade secrets. 47:11.560 --> 47:14.560 I mean, you know, he would get the idea that he knew how to get the chicks. 47:14.560 --> 47:16.560 So you wanted to do a little trick. 47:16.560 --> 47:18.560 You wanted to do a little trick to figure out how to do it. 47:18.560 --> 47:20.560 So that you could get some kids. 47:20.560 --> 47:23.560 Well, so what I think it all happened. 47:23.560 --> 47:28.560 How would Stern really brought that into the front of the media 47:28.560 --> 47:33.560 when Hank Kingsley from Larry Sanders show. 47:33.560 --> 47:34.560 Hey, now. 47:34.560 --> 47:35.560 Hank Kingsley. 47:35.560 --> 47:39.560 Yeah, it's time for Larry Sanders. 47:39.560 --> 47:42.560 And so Howard Stern started doing a lot of that. 47:42.560 --> 47:46.560 But in the meantime, at radio station, this has been this way forever, 47:46.560 --> 47:49.560 since I guess, you know, a rock and roll radio started. 47:49.560 --> 47:52.560 Guys who weren't on the radio. 47:52.560 --> 47:56.560 So like the program director and the managing or the general manager, 47:56.560 --> 48:00.560 or the music director, they all, you know, have this like special 48:00.560 --> 48:03.560 little language that they speak with the air talent, 48:03.560 --> 48:07.560 often like the morning show guy who might also be the program director. 48:07.560 --> 48:08.560 And then, I'll talk about it. 48:08.560 --> 48:12.560 Hey, man, man, man, man, man we got good ready season, man, man. 48:12.560 --> 48:13.560 Yeah, man, man, man. 48:13.560 --> 48:15.560 I'm, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, because, you know, 48:15.560 --> 48:17.560 world, such intradable communicators. 48:17.560 --> 48:20.560 We have, we have our own little special short hand, and, and ask anyone 48:20.560 --> 48:22.560 in radio, they'll confirm this. 48:22.560 --> 48:24.560 It's, it's horrible. 48:24.560 --> 48:27.560 So, you know, you just get into the habit of just 48:27.560 --> 48:30.560 slipping into it, and, you know, the automatic thing is, 48:30.560 --> 48:32.000 Did I ever bought a hanging nail? 48:32.000 --> 48:34.000 I'm dead Marna! 48:34.000 --> 48:35.400 That's so. 48:35.400 --> 48:37.400 That's great. 48:37.400 --> 48:40.840 But listen to the radio, and that's the difference 48:40.840 --> 48:43.040 between radio broadcasts and podcasts. 48:43.040 --> 48:44.440 That's the first thing you hear. 48:44.440 --> 48:46.520 That's why I say it's like college radio, 48:46.520 --> 48:48.240 which was incredibly cool, man. 48:48.240 --> 48:50.680 You get listen to college radio back in the 80s. 48:50.680 --> 48:51.680 That's where it was happening. 48:51.680 --> 48:52.680 That's where it was. 48:52.680 --> 48:55.360 That's where the REM came from, you know. 48:55.360 --> 49:00.160 Well, I did actually listen to FM radio when I was in San Francisco 49:01.120 --> 49:02.560 and it was actually kind of nice. 49:02.560 --> 49:06.680 There's a station called KFRC, which is oldies format. 49:06.680 --> 49:09.920 And they played since I was a hadn't heard in a long time. 49:09.920 --> 49:10.760 Right. 49:10.760 --> 49:12.200 That's what I like that. 49:12.200 --> 49:13.200 It's nice, you know. 49:13.200 --> 49:18.040 They played a song called Those Were The Days, Those Were The Days, 49:18.040 --> 49:20.480 My friend, I love the name. 49:20.480 --> 49:21.680 We thought it's a right. 49:21.680 --> 49:24.360 It turns out that I made an answer came on and explained 49:24.360 --> 49:26.840 that it was a Russian song. 49:26.840 --> 49:27.680 Yes. 49:27.680 --> 49:29.280 I think the name was Hopkins, Mary Hopkins. 49:30.240 --> 49:32.840 And that was a wonderful song. 49:32.840 --> 49:35.720 So, you know, I was like, I sat there at the parking lot. 49:35.720 --> 49:36.720 I listened to the song. 49:36.720 --> 49:38.720 And I just listened to that. 49:38.720 --> 49:39.320 Cheers. 49:39.320 --> 49:41.160 You know, I was just said, because it's true. 49:41.160 --> 49:43.520 Those were the days we thought they'd never end. 49:43.520 --> 49:45.520 You know, we were young. 49:45.520 --> 49:46.720 We're getting close better. 49:46.720 --> 49:47.720 Get a damn close. 49:47.720 --> 49:48.960 Oh, man. 49:48.960 --> 49:49.720 Dammit. 49:49.720 --> 49:52.520 You mentioned that which I'd known, what? 49:52.520 --> 49:55.120 I go ahead, do you wish it known what? 49:55.120 --> 49:56.800 I wish I'd known then what I know now. 49:56.800 --> 49:57.800 You know what? 49:57.800 --> 49:58.320 Yeah. 49:58.360 --> 49:59.160 Sure. 49:59.160 --> 50:00.160 Sure. 50:00.160 --> 50:01.720 I mean, yesterday, on the source code, 50:01.720 --> 50:04.400 I played Frank Sinatra, comply with me. 50:04.400 --> 50:05.400 Yeah. 50:05.400 --> 50:07.480 So, here's something really weird. 50:07.480 --> 50:11.440 Today, in slips, my, into my iPod or so, 50:11.440 --> 50:14.280 I actually check that on iTunes. 50:14.280 --> 50:18.040 The latest Geekspeak, which is the, the gamer Geeks 50:18.040 --> 50:19.560 who have podcast. 50:19.560 --> 50:20.080 Yeah. 50:20.080 --> 50:21.360 Check them out what they started with. 50:21.360 --> 50:22.960 This is, it freaked me out. 50:22.960 --> 50:25.720 And it took me a second, and I won't let you hit 50:25.720 --> 50:28.040 the whole thing, but you'll understand. 50:28.200 --> 50:30.680 Fly me to the moon. 50:30.680 --> 50:31.680 Yeah. 50:31.680 --> 50:33.680 That's how they started. 50:33.680 --> 50:36.280 Listen, I can tell you didn't read scripting music yesterday, 50:36.280 --> 50:37.640 because, yeah, I did. 50:37.640 --> 50:38.480 I did. 50:38.480 --> 50:39.320 I did. 50:39.320 --> 50:39.960 Oh, you did. 50:39.960 --> 50:40.680 Yeah. 50:40.680 --> 50:41.520 You did. 50:41.520 --> 50:44.120 I'm waiting for you to tell me the story. 50:44.120 --> 50:44.960 What? 50:44.960 --> 50:46.880 I'm waiting for you to tell the story. 50:46.880 --> 50:47.400 Oh, yeah. 50:47.400 --> 50:49.960 I was getting off the tram at SFO. 50:49.960 --> 50:53.040 Listening to the daily source code. 50:53.040 --> 50:54.840 I had just, you know, returned my rental car 50:54.840 --> 50:58.200 going to the terminal, and Adam Seussville, I'm going to 50:58.200 --> 51:01.400 please sign, and the song comes on as I'm going down. 51:01.400 --> 51:04.200 It says, welcome to San Francisco International. 51:04.200 --> 51:06.280 And it's, uh, come fly with me. 51:06.280 --> 51:07.280 Got that. 51:07.280 --> 51:09.080 And I go, fuck, I'm going flying. 51:09.080 --> 51:10.080 Got it. 51:10.080 --> 51:11.080 All right. 51:11.080 --> 51:12.080 Not bad. 51:12.080 --> 51:13.080 Everybody. 51:13.080 --> 51:13.920 Everybody. 51:13.920 --> 51:14.720 They're revolving. 51:14.720 --> 51:15.720 Yeah. 51:15.720 --> 51:17.960 They're on the other side of everybody. 51:17.960 --> 51:19.960 He's from Seattle, Washington. 51:19.960 --> 51:21.200 And that was a winner of their game. 51:21.200 --> 51:22.200 Yeah. 51:22.200 --> 51:23.200 Yeah. 51:24.040 --> 51:27.480 Listen to the radio and you're going to start noticing this. 51:27.480 --> 51:29.800 You will start noticing how these guys talk. 51:29.800 --> 51:31.720 You know, it's, you know, it's, you know, and they're so 51:31.720 --> 51:34.120 cookie cutter, always in the, in the middle of the day, 51:34.120 --> 51:35.720 there's always the midday girl. 51:35.720 --> 51:37.520 There's always, that's when the women are always on. 51:37.520 --> 51:40.160 Has to be, you know, midday is after the morning show 51:40.160 --> 51:41.320 and before afternoon drive. 51:41.320 --> 51:43.320 So it kind of carries you over. 51:43.320 --> 51:45.960 And, uh, and it's for housewives. 51:45.960 --> 51:47.200 That's why they always put women there. 51:47.200 --> 51:49.200 It's like, actually, when I was a kid, 51:49.440 --> 51:53.440 any WFM, which was my station, had Alice and Steel. 51:53.440 --> 51:54.440 Alice and Steel. 51:54.440 --> 51:54.920 Yeah. 51:54.920 --> 51:55.720 Alice and Steel. 51:55.720 --> 51:57.120 You know, I heard, right. 51:57.120 --> 51:57.720 Yeah. 51:57.720 --> 51:58.920 The night bird, exactly. 51:58.920 --> 52:01.080 As she would be on like a 2 a.m. 52:01.080 --> 52:01.920 Yeah. 52:01.920 --> 52:05.320 And, uh, and, uh, and he'd go, oh my God, she must be a mysterious woman. 52:05.320 --> 52:06.440 She's on it 2 a.m. 52:06.440 --> 52:06.640 Yeah. 52:06.640 --> 52:09.200 The perfect face for radio, my friend. 52:09.200 --> 52:09.880 Yeah. 52:09.880 --> 52:14.640 See, and the other, and then she used to play, um, 52:14.640 --> 52:16.320 there was a song that forget who sang it. 52:16.320 --> 52:18.840 It was called, I usually like it much better in the morning. 52:18.840 --> 52:19.680 Yeah. 52:19.680 --> 52:24.000 And it was a woman, a woman singing that, and maybe you could find that somewhere. 52:24.000 --> 52:25.680 It was really something like it so much better. 52:25.680 --> 52:27.480 I'll have to look at it for it later. 52:27.480 --> 52:30.720 I like it much better in the morning, which was an unusual thought to me. 52:30.720 --> 52:32.920 You know, because, whatever, I was passionate, obviously. 52:32.920 --> 52:34.080 I was 16 years old. 52:34.080 --> 52:35.080 Yeah. 52:35.080 --> 52:36.960 Yeah, you were listening to the night bird. 52:36.960 --> 52:39.240 And seeing, uh, here's the generation gap, Dave. 52:39.240 --> 52:43.640 When I moved to New York in, uh, 87, and I was 20 something, 52:43.640 --> 52:46.360 we had Robin Bird on Channel J. 52:47.560 --> 52:48.240 Oh, God. 52:48.680 --> 52:49.680 Have you ever seen her? 52:49.680 --> 52:54.520 Because, yeah, that's the faint echo of what I was talking about. 52:54.520 --> 52:55.400 It's my baby bag. 52:55.400 --> 52:56.320 It's my box. 52:56.320 --> 52:57.400 Come on, baby bag. 52:57.400 --> 52:58.040 My box. 52:58.040 --> 52:59.280 You can bang my box. 52:59.280 --> 53:00.280 That was a great show. 53:00.280 --> 53:01.880 I love that show. 53:01.880 --> 53:04.800 Listen, when I noticed it was going on with Jonathan Schwartz, 53:04.800 --> 53:07.080 and Scott Meaney was another one. 53:07.080 --> 53:07.880 Yeah, Scott Meaney. 53:07.880 --> 53:08.080 You need that. 53:08.080 --> 53:08.920 You need that. 53:08.920 --> 53:11.000 Yeah, we're hippies in the East Village. 53:11.000 --> 53:12.880 You know, they were long-haired hippies. 53:12.880 --> 53:14.840 Just like they were in Hadesburg. 53:14.840 --> 53:17.720 K-Fog was, I don't know, I don't know anything about 53:17.720 --> 53:19.280 San Francisco radio, zero. 53:19.280 --> 53:21.960 Docs, sirals, and I was one of these things about San Francisco radio. 53:21.960 --> 53:23.160 Well, yeah, he does. 53:23.160 --> 53:26.400 There's two stations in San Francisco Bay Area that were seven, 53:26.400 --> 53:27.280 all made a big difference. 53:27.280 --> 53:30.520 At least as far as I know, were K-Fog, which is still there. 53:30.520 --> 53:33.520 And that was a progressive rock, uh, you know, 53:33.520 --> 53:34.800 the equivalent of WWW. 53:34.800 --> 53:36.240 And then it was K-Pig. 53:36.240 --> 53:37.080 K-Pig. 53:37.080 --> 53:38.040 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 53:38.040 --> 53:39.040 Not quite the right idea. 53:39.040 --> 53:40.040 I think they were. 53:40.040 --> 53:41.040 They had a string. 53:41.040 --> 53:41.920 They went for a long time. 53:41.920 --> 53:42.760 But they still streamed. 53:42.760 --> 53:44.520 They were like one of the big things I don't know, 53:44.520 --> 53:47.680 but they were still there when I moved to the Bay Area. 53:47.680 --> 53:48.920 In 79. 53:48.920 --> 53:50.240 And I lived in Las Cadas. 53:50.240 --> 53:52.760 That was the first place I lived. 53:52.760 --> 53:53.600 They were close. 53:53.600 --> 53:57.560 I was close enough to Gilroy to actually pick up K-Pig and it was great. 53:57.560 --> 53:58.240 I couldn't believe it. 53:58.240 --> 53:59.960 They were playing things like little feet, you know, 53:59.960 --> 54:00.800 little right. 54:00.800 --> 54:01.800 One of my favorite things. 54:01.800 --> 54:02.800 Right. 54:02.800 --> 54:06.840 And, you know, they played the, they played the dead. 54:06.840 --> 54:11.040 They played all the, all the sort of stuff he never heard on FM radio. 54:11.040 --> 54:11.960 Of course, they were too good. 54:11.960 --> 54:14.240 I guess to last the Docs, you know, we'll talk about that. 54:14.240 --> 54:17.000 I'm sure Doc will be there at, uh, at our time. 54:17.000 --> 54:20.000 I mean, we got to do so many podcasts when we're, when we're at blogger 54:20.000 --> 54:21.000 content. 54:21.000 --> 54:22.640 I'm just looking forward to putting cool stuff to go. 54:22.640 --> 54:25.200 Chris Biden did that at the, uh, first blogger content. 54:25.200 --> 54:26.200 He did. 54:26.200 --> 54:27.200 It was really good. 54:27.200 --> 54:28.200 It was very good. 54:28.200 --> 54:29.200 In fact, he interviewed you. 54:29.200 --> 54:30.200 Yeah. 54:30.200 --> 54:31.200 We should dig that one up. 54:31.200 --> 54:32.200 We should dig that one up. 54:32.200 --> 54:35.200 And who else did the interview that was really good? 54:35.200 --> 54:36.200 K-Rose. 54:36.200 --> 54:37.200 Yeah, you were. 54:37.200 --> 54:38.200 K-Rose. 54:38.200 --> 54:43.200 K-Rose is podcast or we didn't call on podcast, but I remember going, okay. 54:43.200 --> 54:44.200 Webcast. 54:44.200 --> 54:46.200 We told him for some reason. 54:46.400 --> 54:47.200 I'm so glad that. 54:47.200 --> 54:48.200 They were cast from the web. 54:48.200 --> 54:49.200 I don't remember. 54:49.200 --> 54:52.200 We'll have to go back and listen to see what we call them, but, uh, you know, Chris 54:52.200 --> 54:56.440 did some, I mean, that was the first time I heard Daily Costs, and he interviewed 54:56.440 --> 54:57.440 Daily Costs. 54:57.440 --> 54:58.440 Right. 54:58.440 --> 54:59.440 He did. 54:59.440 --> 55:02.200 Julie Powell from, uh, hold on a second day. 55:02.200 --> 55:03.440 My cat is freaking out. 55:03.440 --> 55:04.440 Hold on. 55:04.440 --> 55:05.440 I got to go. 55:05.440 --> 55:06.440 Let the cat in. 55:06.440 --> 55:07.440 Come in. 55:07.440 --> 55:08.440 Come in, baby. 55:08.440 --> 55:09.440 Come in. 55:09.440 --> 55:10.440 Everybody. 55:10.440 --> 55:11.440 Everybody. 55:11.440 --> 55:12.440 Get out of my cell. 55:12.440 --> 55:13.440 Get out of my cell. 55:13.440 --> 55:14.440 Get out of my cell. 55:14.440 --> 55:15.440 Yeah. 55:15.440 --> 55:16.440 Go. 55:16.440 --> 55:17.440 Yeah. 55:17.440 --> 55:22.040 Maybe someday we should do a trade secret that's like, well, I can't be a secret to 55:22.040 --> 55:23.040 the message. 55:23.040 --> 55:24.040 They have wireless microphones. 55:24.040 --> 55:25.040 Yeah, I'm back. 55:25.040 --> 55:27.040 But no wireless speakers. 55:27.040 --> 55:28.040 Yeah. 55:28.040 --> 55:29.040 Okay. 55:29.040 --> 55:32.280 So I was telling the people about how someday we ought to do the domestic trade 55:32.280 --> 55:36.080 secrets where basically all we do is just clean the house and flush the door. 55:36.320 --> 55:37.080 Yeah. 55:37.080 --> 55:39.080 Reality radio. 55:39.080 --> 55:43.080 Maybe you can leave it running well. 55:43.080 --> 55:44.080 I go shopping. 55:44.080 --> 55:49.080 It's the boner cast. 55:49.080 --> 55:50.080 Lovely. 55:50.080 --> 55:52.080 So yeah. 55:52.080 --> 55:54.080 I had dinner with Steve Gilmore. 55:54.080 --> 55:55.080 That's one thing I was talking about. 55:55.080 --> 55:56.080 Less time. 55:56.080 --> 55:57.080 Or the night before. 55:57.080 --> 55:58.080 No. 55:58.080 --> 55:59.080 Night before. 55:59.080 --> 56:00.080 Yeah. 56:00.080 --> 56:01.080 It was night before. 56:01.080 --> 56:02.080 Yeah. 56:02.080 --> 56:03.080 And. 56:03.080 --> 56:04.080 He said. 56:04.080 --> 56:05.080 Can't wait to meet him. 56:06.080 --> 56:07.080 Yeah, I asked him to see it. 56:07.080 --> 56:08.080 I met you. 56:08.080 --> 56:09.080 He said he had. 56:09.080 --> 56:10.080 And. 56:10.080 --> 56:12.080 He says what we're doing is a comedy show here. 56:12.080 --> 56:14.080 Oh, then we can get a listing under the comedy. 56:14.080 --> 56:17.080 Note in the directory, which is maintained by someone else. 56:17.080 --> 56:19.080 I'll have to submit a link. 56:19.080 --> 56:21.080 You'll have to get down on your hand. 56:21.080 --> 56:22.080 I will. 56:22.080 --> 56:23.080 Please add us to your. 56:23.080 --> 56:24.080 Please. 56:24.080 --> 56:25.080 Please. 56:25.080 --> 56:26.080 Please. 56:26.080 --> 56:27.080 No. 56:27.080 --> 56:28.080 Please. 56:28.080 --> 56:30.080 By flowers and tell them how much you love them. 56:30.080 --> 56:31.080 Yeah. 56:31.080 --> 56:32.080 The way she heard or whatever. 56:33.080 --> 56:34.080 I said flowers. 56:34.080 --> 56:36.080 Tell them that you really care. 56:36.080 --> 56:37.080 I love you. 56:37.080 --> 56:38.080 And I love it. 56:38.080 --> 56:40.080 And I really care. 56:40.080 --> 56:41.080 Right. 56:41.080 --> 56:42.080 So what else is Steve's? 56:42.080 --> 56:43.080 I can't wait to meet Steve. 56:43.080 --> 56:46.080 Because he's been such a tremendous driving force. 56:46.080 --> 56:48.080 And at the end of every single. 56:48.080 --> 56:49.080 Gilmore gang boy. 56:49.080 --> 56:52.080 If he doesn't come out and just plug podcasting some more. 56:52.080 --> 56:54.080 It was really great. 56:54.080 --> 56:57.080 I was listening to the interview with Kim Collision. 56:57.080 --> 56:58.080 And. 56:58.080 --> 56:59.080 Collision. 56:59.080 --> 57:00.080 Collision. 57:00.080 --> 57:01.080 And. 57:02.080 --> 57:05.080 You know, I wanted them to ask her question that they didn't ask. 57:05.080 --> 57:07.080 You know, if she was always talking about walking. 57:07.080 --> 57:08.080 I don't know if she listened to you. 57:08.080 --> 57:09.080 Yeah. 57:09.080 --> 57:10.080 I listened to the whole thing. 57:10.080 --> 57:12.080 It was extremely difficult times. 57:12.080 --> 57:13.080 Yeah. 57:13.080 --> 57:14.080 Why was it difficult? 57:14.080 --> 57:16.080 Well, because I got the idea. 57:16.080 --> 57:17.080 You know, and I just hear. 57:17.080 --> 57:19.080 Oh, I hear a lot of marketing speak after a while. 57:19.080 --> 57:20.080 You know, I just get tired of it. 57:20.080 --> 57:21.080 You know, I get it. 57:21.080 --> 57:22.080 You know, I get it. 57:22.080 --> 57:24.080 You're providing service to open source. 57:24.080 --> 57:26.080 You know, stacks that you'll sell. 57:26.080 --> 57:27.080 I get it. 57:27.080 --> 57:28.080 It's great. 57:28.080 --> 57:29.080 There's companies doing that. 57:29.080 --> 57:30.080 They're going to be more. 57:30.080 --> 57:32.080 And this is probably going to be a really good one. 57:32.080 --> 57:34.080 Well, there's a geek fascination with Kim. 57:34.080 --> 57:35.080 You got to understand. 57:35.080 --> 57:36.080 She can really talk to it. 57:36.080 --> 57:37.080 Anything she wants. 57:37.080 --> 57:38.080 Just too. 57:38.080 --> 57:39.080 Yeah. 57:39.080 --> 57:40.080 And you guys go, oh, really. 57:40.080 --> 57:41.080 Oh, that's fascinating. 57:41.080 --> 57:42.080 Boy. 57:42.080 --> 57:43.080 Boy. 57:43.080 --> 57:44.080 Boy. 57:44.080 --> 57:45.080 Boy. 57:45.080 --> 57:46.080 Boy. 57:46.080 --> 57:47.080 Boy. 57:47.080 --> 57:48.080 Boy. 57:48.080 --> 57:49.080 Boy. 57:49.080 --> 57:50.080 Boy. 57:50.080 --> 57:51.080 Boy. 57:51.080 --> 57:52.080 Boy. 57:52.080 --> 57:53.080 Boy. 57:53.080 --> 57:54.080 Boy. 57:54.080 --> 57:55.080 Boy. 57:55.080 --> 57:56.080 Boy. 57:56.080 --> 57:57.080 Yeah, and this is what I know. 57:57.080 --> 58:05.400 It's on her mind and it's really great moment in there. 58:05.400 --> 58:08.760 Where, um, at the end, you know, compelling it. 58:08.760 --> 58:15.460 She apparently had given a speech at this invitation only $2400 visae confidence on boxing, 58:15.460 --> 58:18.760 which, by the way, it was like a Republican confidence on the environment. 58:18.760 --> 58:19.760 Yeah. 58:19.760 --> 58:20.760 I read the quote on Sl everlasting news. 58:20.760 --> 58:21.760 That was funny. 58:21.760 --> 58:22.760 Yeah. 58:22.760 --> 58:23.760 Got a lot of play, of course. 58:23.760 --> 58:25.780 And actually, I actually go to a response from 58:25.780 --> 58:30.980 from a venture capitalist on that, and a friend of mine, Hank Barry, and the conversation 58:30.980 --> 58:35.780 turned in very interesting directions, you know, actually, he came out and visited us. 58:35.780 --> 58:41.780 Anyway, at the end, they asked, so Kim's speech was, apparently, was a lot about, you know, 58:41.780 --> 58:46.780 podcasting and blogging and RSS, and, you know, obviously, we think it's so cool, you know, 58:46.780 --> 58:50.780 which don't seem to have anything to do with us doing, right, open source stuff. 58:50.780 --> 58:51.780 Right. 58:51.780 --> 58:52.780 Yeah. 58:52.780 --> 58:53.780 Well, yeah. 58:53.780 --> 58:54.780 That's a good casting. 58:54.780 --> 58:55.780 We have a new one, ladies and gentlemen. 58:55.780 --> 58:57.780 We're going to bring you stuff. 58:57.780 --> 58:58.780 Casting about it. 58:58.780 --> 58:59.780 Yeah. 58:59.780 --> 59:00.780 Pretty soon. 59:00.780 --> 59:01.780 Yeah. 59:01.780 --> 59:03.780 It's in the queue right now. 59:03.780 --> 59:06.780 So they asked her about that, and Kim, she just flew it up. 59:06.780 --> 59:08.780 It's like, oh, this is all the cool shit blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. 59:08.780 --> 59:09.780 There you go. 59:09.780 --> 59:10.780 Okay. 59:10.780 --> 59:11.780 That's cool. 59:11.780 --> 59:12.780 How did that happen? 59:12.780 --> 59:13.780 Why isn't she doing all that stuff, you know? 59:13.780 --> 59:14.780 I don't know. 59:14.780 --> 59:15.780 She shouldn't be. 59:15.780 --> 59:17.780 It's probably, it's a venture capital thing. 59:17.780 --> 59:20.780 It's another one of those where probably they had a CEO for this company, the client 59:20.780 --> 59:21.780 or Perkins guys. 59:21.780 --> 59:22.780 And something happened. 59:22.780 --> 59:23.780 He blew it all up. 59:23.780 --> 59:24.780 He blew it all up. 59:24.780 --> 59:31.780 Or the entrepreneur was said he could be the CEO and eventually wore him down and Kim's 59:31.780 --> 59:32.780 to be couldn't. 59:32.780 --> 59:37.780 And Kim Kim, it's Kim like the, the, the stand by CEO and residents of us. 59:37.780 --> 59:39.780 There's no, there's no, there's no stand by. 59:39.780 --> 59:41.780 They have a stable of them. 59:41.780 --> 59:43.780 It's, it's the way the system works. 59:43.780 --> 59:44.780 Yeah. 59:44.780 --> 59:49.780 Basically, they move you out of one company and then you get, you get a hangout until, you know, 59:49.780 --> 59:51.780 it may keep showing you companies until you're okay. 59:51.780 --> 59:52.780 I like that one. 59:52.780 --> 59:54.780 They put you in the CEO of that one. 59:54.780 --> 59:55.780 Oh, hey Dave. 59:55.780 --> 59:56.780 Hey Dave. 59:56.780 --> 01:00:00.780 Let's start a company and then let venture capitalists take us out. 01:00:00.780 --> 01:00:01.780 Really cool. 01:00:01.780 --> 01:00:03.780 I actually did that one. 01:00:03.780 --> 01:00:04.780 I'm in too. 01:00:04.780 --> 01:00:05.780 I'm in too. 01:00:05.780 --> 01:00:06.780 I'm in too. 01:00:06.780 --> 01:00:07.780 Yeah. 01:00:07.780 --> 01:00:08.780 Let's talk about it. 01:00:08.780 --> 01:00:11.780 Don't go anymore. 01:00:11.780 --> 01:00:12.780 That's a great. 01:00:12.780 --> 01:00:14.780 It is a great. 01:00:14.780 --> 01:00:18.780 That was funny because I heard, um, 01:00:18.780 --> 01:00:26.780 I don't know if Steve was at that dinner, but he certainly did call on her at the end of at the end of the Gilmour gang about podcasting. 01:00:26.780 --> 01:00:27.780 Yeah. 01:00:27.780 --> 01:00:28.780 Yeah. 01:00:28.780 --> 01:00:29.780 That was kind of cool. 01:00:29.780 --> 01:00:30.780 And he didn't really attack her. 01:00:30.780 --> 01:00:32.780 He had lots of room there, which was nice. 01:00:32.780 --> 01:00:33.780 Oh, totally. 01:00:33.780 --> 01:00:34.780 You did quite a lot. 01:00:34.780 --> 01:00:35.780 After his work. 01:00:35.780 --> 01:00:36.780 Where's your lock in? 01:00:36.780 --> 01:00:37.780 Where's your lock in? 01:00:37.780 --> 01:00:38.780 Yeah. 01:00:38.780 --> 01:00:40.780 You know, she was talking about everybody else's lock in. 01:00:40.780 --> 01:00:41.780 Yeah. 01:00:41.780 --> 01:00:43.780 It was like, say, okay, he has dirty underwear. 01:00:43.780 --> 01:00:44.780 He has dirty underwear. 01:00:44.780 --> 01:00:46.780 He has, okay, Kim, what about your underwear? 01:00:46.780 --> 01:00:48.780 He's a dirty stack. 01:00:48.780 --> 01:00:49.780 Yeah. 01:00:49.780 --> 01:00:50.780 She stacked. 01:00:50.780 --> 01:00:51.780 I'm not going there. 01:00:51.780 --> 01:00:52.780 I'm sorry. 01:00:52.780 --> 01:00:55.780 Do you have to put a disclaimer in somewhere here Mr. Winer? 01:00:55.780 --> 01:00:56.780 No. 01:00:56.780 --> 01:00:58.780 No, no, no, no, no. 01:00:58.780 --> 01:01:00.780 No, no, no, no. 01:01:00.780 --> 01:01:01.780 No. 01:01:01.780 --> 01:01:02.780 All right. 01:01:02.780 --> 01:01:04.780 On that note, the long time ago. 01:01:04.780 --> 01:01:05.780 On that note. 01:01:05.780 --> 01:01:06.780 And I have. 01:01:06.780 --> 01:01:11.780 You know, I have, um, you want to listen to something you want to end it. 01:01:11.780 --> 01:01:12.780 Where about an hour into this? 01:01:12.780 --> 01:01:13.780 What do you want to do? 01:01:13.780 --> 01:01:14.780 Um, what do you have? 01:01:14.780 --> 01:01:15.780 Well, it's about, let me see, 01:01:15.780 --> 01:01:19.460 It's about, let me see how long it is, it's kind of long, but it's really good. It's six minutes. 01:01:19.460 --> 01:01:24.980 It's, um, I plugged this yesterday on the source code, the Truthout Overview from Truthout.org. 01:01:24.980 --> 01:01:29.780 This guy who's been, it was doing his own podcast, and it's just so good. 01:01:29.780 --> 01:01:31.780 It's just, let me describe it. 01:01:31.780 --> 01:01:37.140 I'll just play a little bit of it. I'll pin it about, I want to play the beginning and about a 01:01:37.140 --> 01:01:40.820 minute of what he's doing. You'll get the idea pretty quickly. All right? Okay. 01:01:40.820 --> 01:01:42.820 Because it's something you should subscribe to. 01:01:43.750 --> 01:02:10.820 [ Music ] 01:02:10.820 --> 01:02:21.300 Good evening. This is William Rivers 5, and this is the Truthout Overview for Friday, 01:02:21.300 --> 01:02:26.820 October 8, 2004. Our lead for today comes from the editorial board of the Demorans Register, 01:02:26.820 --> 01:02:33.860 and is titled Orwell Goes to War. The essay reads, in part, as follows. We live in Orwellian times, 01:02:33.860 --> 01:02:39.140 where obvious falsehoods are asserted brazenly as, the day after the final report of the 01:02:39.140 --> 01:02:44.180 Iraq survey group confirmed that Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction and no active programs 01:02:44.180 --> 01:02:49.460 to produce them by President Dick Cheney, blindly asserted that the report justified the invasion of 01:02:49.460 --> 01:02:56.260 Iraq. No, Mr. Vice President, the report shattered the last four-learned hope that the war was necessary. 01:02:56.260 --> 01:03:01.380 It established that Iraq posed no threat to the United States before the 2003 invasion, 01:03:01.380 --> 01:03:04.820 or any time in the foreseeable future. You get the idea, right? 01:03:05.780 --> 01:03:12.500 Yep. Yeah. It's really, really good stuff. And he reads his own essays and other newspaper articles 01:03:12.500 --> 01:03:18.980 you might not come across. It's a podcast, but it's just like a weblog. He's routing information, 01:03:18.980 --> 01:03:24.100 all these people are routing information around. I just routed information by playing this. This is good. 01:03:24.100 --> 01:03:27.540 This is just good stuff. He's a good feed to subscribe to. 01:03:28.180 --> 01:03:35.620 What's the feed? Where is it? Hmm. It's in the podcast directory. 01:03:37.060 --> 01:03:44.020 Oh, that's all you need to do. Yeah, on ipodr.org. It's a truth out. The truth out overview is what it's called. 01:03:44.020 --> 01:03:46.500 So you should be able to find it. That's what we need. We need to be able to search the directory 01:03:46.500 --> 01:03:52.260 tree really quickly. We got to do all kinds of stuff like that. Is that possible? It's distributed 01:03:52.260 --> 01:03:59.380 does that work? Oh, anything works. You know, we've got it. Well, here's the deal. We've got to talk 01:03:59.380 --> 01:04:06.500 to the search and get them to crawl that tree. And then, okay, that's step number one. I'm glad we 01:04:06.500 --> 01:04:11.060 got a chance to do this. That's step number one. Then once they've crawled it, when they find one, 01:04:11.060 --> 01:04:17.300 they should just display it like a directory. Yeah. It's done. Yeah. That's done. It's so cool. 01:04:17.300 --> 01:04:23.780 We've now completely disintermediated Yahoo. And God knows they need to be disintermediated. 01:04:23.780 --> 01:04:31.300 Even they would agree with that. Like, by now, probably not. Well, but then who cares what they say? 01:04:31.300 --> 01:04:37.220 Great. I don't care. I don't care. Jeremy's won't take that. 01:04:39.220 --> 01:04:44.980 Oh, he doesn't care what I think. Can you believe that guy? I mean, basically, he goes and asks 01:04:44.980 --> 01:04:49.540 Tim O'Reilly, whether he has any conflicts of interest. Like, don't you own Google stock 01:04:49.540 --> 01:04:56.020 Tim? And of course, Tim Gidon Google stock. And it was a good question to ask. Yeah. And so I 01:04:56.020 --> 01:05:02.580 quoted him asking the question. And I was like, you know, somebody, you know, wasn't that long ago? 01:05:02.580 --> 01:05:08.580 I should have just about time somebody had the balls to ask O'Reilly that question, you know? 01:05:08.580 --> 01:05:12.020 And what's the question to explain the situation? Because I know what you're talking about. Okay. 01:05:12.020 --> 01:05:16.580 Well, what happened was, what happened was that Tim O'Reilly, Google was getting a lot of heat for 01:05:16.580 --> 01:05:20.820 something that they did. I don't remember what it was. You know, there's big get a lot of heat. 01:05:20.820 --> 01:05:26.180 And it's, you know, there's a big company and they're in a leadership position. And heat is a good thing. 01:05:26.180 --> 01:05:31.140 He got it. It was Gmail. It was Gmail. It was about Gmail. It wasn't right. It was the privacy issues. 01:05:31.140 --> 01:05:36.580 We out and the privacy issues. And I had, I think I had written this was like, there were no worse 01:05:36.580 --> 01:05:40.420 than anybody else. And come on, get a life. This isn't really a privacy issue. 01:05:40.420 --> 01:05:43.940 But people were freaking out. The state of California was going to pass the law. 01:05:44.980 --> 01:05:50.500 You know, making what they were doing illegal is just so ridiculous. Yeah. So Tim O'Reilly comes along. 01:05:50.500 --> 01:05:55.860 And writes a thing basically saying, this is all bunch of bullshit. And, you know, you can't, you know, 01:05:55.860 --> 01:06:00.900 hold them. But he went way over the line. I thought, I forget what he said. But some of the things he said 01:06:00.900 --> 01:06:05.540 were like, come on, you know, don't go so far. Don't get so crazy about Google. 01:06:05.620 --> 01:06:12.180 We've got to be realistic about them. And, um, and with Jeremy's wife who works at Yahoo, you know, 01:06:12.180 --> 01:06:18.020 his, his, um, his was making him soar. And you could see this happening over and over. 01:06:18.020 --> 01:06:23.300 Is it Yahoo, they feel fair amount of resentment for Google. Because they get credit for doing 01:06:23.300 --> 01:06:28.900 the things that Yahoo did first. They get credit for doing first. Everybody says, oh, Google so innovative. 01:06:28.900 --> 01:06:33.140 But they're actually just copying Yahoo. That's the way. So, you know, you know, what? 01:06:33.220 --> 01:06:38.100 Well, I hate that. I hate that. And I support Soadney and that one. I think that we ought to know 01:06:38.100 --> 01:06:44.420 who do the innovation. Okay. Let's get grounded. So, Soadney asks the question, you know, hey, Tim O'Reilly, 01:06:44.420 --> 01:06:49.860 don't you own a lot of Google stock that you did as close as when you wrote that. And of course, 01:06:49.860 --> 01:06:54.740 yeah, you kind of do need to disclose that. And, uh, or at least, you know, when somebody asks, 01:06:54.740 --> 01:07:00.340 you should answer, right? Yeah. Instead, Tim goes, you know, blah, blah and blah, blah. And never really 01:07:00.340 --> 01:07:04.020 answers the question except he kind of shows you I do. But, you know, it's sort of like, 01:07:04.020 --> 01:07:08.740 that comes in paragraph eight. But, you know, first he has to say why the question isn't 01:07:08.740 --> 01:07:15.380 a fair one in hell, blah, whatever. Tim O'Reilly, usual, long, windy, very sort of like, you know, 01:07:15.380 --> 01:07:21.300 I'm Mr. Cool, perfect and clear. Well, there goes my invitation to Philip M. Dave. Thanks. 01:07:21.300 --> 01:07:26.900 Well, that goes Miami. You can just stroke him anyway you want. But, um, so anyway, 01:07:26.980 --> 01:07:33.140 they take a long story very, very long, continuously long. I quoted the Wadney. I said, well, 01:07:33.140 --> 01:07:38.420 thank, I didn't say anything. I just give the Wadney colon. How much stock does Tim own Google 01:07:38.420 --> 01:07:44.820 stuff? And all of a sudden, you're the bad way. I'm the bad guy, right? Always kill the messenger 01:07:44.820 --> 01:07:48.500 Dave. They always kill me. No, I'm not the messenger. There's a Wadney's a messenger. But, 01:07:48.500 --> 01:07:55.780 you want to know the problem is the Wadney's an O'Reilly author. Oh, we're really happy. They said, 01:07:55.780 --> 01:08:02.740 well, were you expecting a royalty check this week, you know? It's a tech industry. It's a 01:08:02.740 --> 01:08:08.820 worrisome entertainment day. The tech industry is just so bad. So we go to your checks and entertainment. 01:08:10.100 --> 01:08:15.460 Yeah, well, you don't get it. We don't have no words. We're catching up. We're catching up quickly. 01:08:15.460 --> 01:08:18.820 You have money, Kims. What are you talking about? Yeah, no. All of that. 01:08:18.820 --> 01:08:24.020 All right. What do you say? We hit the theme music at the fuck out of here. 01:08:25.460 --> 01:08:31.220 I think it's time to get the fuck out of here. Because we got to keep our standing in the comedy 01:08:31.220 --> 01:08:36.100 listing on the director. Yeah, we can't become boring. All right, Dave, thanks, buddy. 01:08:37.460 --> 01:08:47.620 Hey, Adam, have fun. Okay. It's davidscripting.com, Adam at curry.com. This is trade secrets at secrets, 01:08:47.620 --> 01:08:53.620 dot scripting dot com. We'll talk to y'all soon, bye. See you by Dave.