WEBVTT

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Hello, and welcome to IT
Conversations. I'm your host
Doug Kay, and today we have a
recorded

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session from BloggerCon 3 held
at Stanford University on
November 6, 2004. This session

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is on podcasting, and the
session leader is Adam Curry.

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Good morning everybody. Howdy.
Can you hear me okay? It's
working all right. It could be

00:51.520 --> 00:58.080
a little bit louder if someone
could turn that up a bit. It's 9
o'clock exactly, and that

00:58.080 --> 01:01.280
means we're starting with the
podcasting session. My name is
Adam Curry. It's great

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to see everybody here, and from
where I'm standing, the ratio
Apple to Windows is just an
amazing

01:11.400 --> 01:22.880
sight to see this. I want to
thank Dave right off the bat.
We've been working really
intensely

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for the past, well ever since
podcasting started, so a couple
weeks now. While he's been
working

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with me and we've been doing all
this stuff together, he's also
producing a conference

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which is an incredibly,
incredibly big deal to pull off,
and the smoothness of it all

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is just excellent. Of course,
Dave will credit all the people
who have helped him put

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this together. So podcasting.
First thing I thought we should
do is just do our regular

01:58.360 --> 02:09.520
check on Google. Hold on if I
can spell Google. And hold on a
sec. I had to split up my Mac

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no longer has a connection. So,
oops. Yeah. Google still doesn't
understand it. Did you

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mean broadcasting? Meanwhile,
191,000 hits for podcasting. Now
actually, we do have a

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definition on iPod.org which
I'll just leave up there because
it's a little bit confusing.

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What is podcasting? Is it
something that just started with
iPods or with MP3 players?

02:48.480 --> 02:53.680
Or this definition I think
really says it all, which means
it can be perhaps a lot

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broader than what we're doing
today. I wanted to give you a
little bit of history of the

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past couple of months about how
this came to be and some of the
things that happened

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and show that it really was very
simple because it was just a
matter of users and

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developers. I say users and
developers partying together and
coming up with amazing

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stuff. Are the developers in the
room who consider themselves to
be real developers?

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Okay. Good. Welcome to the
party. Glad to have you here.
Just briefly, five years ago

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Dave and I conceived an idea of
how to distribute media files
through the web. We

03:35.880 --> 03:38.680
could go into all kinds of
technical details about that. I
don't think this

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room is going to want to do that
just now or maybe later on.
We'll see. But it

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was relatively simple and was
built on top of protocols and
formats that Dave

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had already invented. They were
already being used and they used
weblog

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infrastructure. It was just
that. It was time shifting an
MP3 file or a

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video file so that it would kind
of come into my computer if he
sent one to me and

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would just be there when I woke
up and said what's new and vice
versa. We did

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that for about four years. We
sent each other little clips and
we'd post about

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it and say, oh, isn't this cool?
Yeah. When everybody uses it,
it'll be really

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cool. Now, there have been MP3
files that people have been
putting on the

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web for years and years and
years. Shows, dramas,
documentaries, stuff that is

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coming from traditional radio.
It's been around. The problem
that I always had

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because I was listening to
Dave's morning coffee notes
which he went from

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kind of the text version to the
audio version for a while and I
really liked

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it. But it wasn't very clear if
I just looked at scripting news
and okay

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where's the file and I might
look over it and might
understand that that

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was something that I wanted to
get. And quite honestly, I
didn't want to sit and

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click and download and have
stuff, you know, wait until it
comes in, play it on

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my computer. And I would
usually, you know, drag it over
to my iPod and use it on

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the commute or go shopping or
whatever or when I just wanted
to tune up my

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14-year-old daughter's songs.
And I wanted to have that happen

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automatically because it was
just a laborious process and I
would miss

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stuff. And I just wouldn't be
current with whatever he was
doing. Also Dave at

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the time which was the first
blogger con I think was working
with Chris Leiden.

05:26.480 --> 05:32.480
Is Chris here? I don't think he
is. And Chris was doing
interviews and Dave

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was putting those in this
distribution system which is
based on RSS. And that

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was cool, you know. I don't get
all these interviews
automatically on my, one

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of them automatically on my
iPod. And I actually looked
around for people to

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help me do this. I'm not a
programmer. I don't feel like a
programmer. In fact, the

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first blogger con asked a couple
people here if you know they
could help me out

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and wound up actually Marcus
Mahler who I pay to watch my
servers and stuff and

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he developed some stuff for me.
He actually built what I would
say the

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first iPod in Radio User Land.
Radio User Land if you're not
familiar with

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it is, well it's much more than
a web blogging tool but it is an

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aggregator that understands how
to get enclosures which is the
basis of podcasts.

06:17.400 --> 06:22.920
And he created a little script
that literally would update my
iPod with

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whatever came in. It didn't work
very well. That was the problem.
It was

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unreliable for a whole bunch of
issues. One of which is the way
radio

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downloads. It just, it didn't
work entirely well. And I
couldn't get

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anyone to help me figure this
out. And I saw all the bits. I
knew that

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everything was in place and if I
could just tie them together I
could

06:43.480 --> 06:48.440
probably make it happen. So I
took about a month and I'll just
show this to

06:48.440 --> 06:53.320
you because I thought you might
appreciate it. It's much less of
a

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big deal than you might think.
And I wrote basically a page and
a half

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of text. This is Apple script.
I'd already learned a bit of
user talk

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which is Radio User Land and
Frontiers scripting language.
And you'll

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see in here literally, it was
all copy-paste. I went out to
Google and

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I said, RSS, Apple script. And
it came back and it gave me all
these

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great examples of stuff that
people were doing with Apple
script and RSS.

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Which wasn't very much actually.
But there was a lot of iPod
stuff and I

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learned that you can talk to
with iTunes and your iPod and
there's

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all these things in there and
you'll see that literally as I
copy and

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paste and stuff. This is really
my code and here's finished
parsing and I

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called stuff like enclosure
sucker. But the big deal is down
at the

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bottom of the page where it says
copy to iTunes. And that was
really

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the big deal for me. When it was
done and I just called it iPod

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because that's the name I come
up with which commercially
doesn't

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make sense but it stuck. I was
really happy but it really,

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really sucks. It's the worst
program I've ever used and of

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course because I don't know how
to do this. Really, please, it's

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still available. Download it and
see how bad it sucks. It just

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breaks all over the place. And I
put it out and said, this

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sucks. Can anyone please improve
it for me? Help me. And

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that's when it started and
that's when I think for me at

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least the connect of users and
developers happened where I put

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out a little more initiative
than just saying, hey, make this

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for me because I found out that
asking programmers and

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developers to make something for
you is like asking them to do

08:39.480 --> 08:42.760
your homework. It just doesn't
work that way. And from here

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just grew this incredible based
on a Yahoo Groups mailing list

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I might add. This incredible
community of users and

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developers having a conversation
with no hidden agenda. The

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only agenda was we want to make
this easier. We want to

08:58.200 --> 09:00.320
make it cool. We want to have a
lot of fun while we're

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doing this. And I think that a
real nice part of all that is

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that the developers are also
podcasters. They're not just

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making code. Of those developers
who raise their hands,

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someone doing a podcast, I hope?
You can raise it a little

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bit higher. So that's just a
brief history of how we got

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here. And then what happened
from there is it's just like

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web logs. You can read web logs.
We all know more or less

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what web logs bring to us. But I
think one of the beauties

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about web logs is you can create
your own at any time

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and you can participate. And
this, with what we've created

09:42.480 --> 09:47.200
here, anybody can basically
create a podcast. And

09:47.200 --> 09:51.840
definition of a podcast or a
program, really anyone can

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do that as long as you have a
computer that at least

09:54.360 --> 09:57.880
has a built-in microphone. From
there, you can really

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branch out and do some really
fancy stuff. I'm not quite

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sure what, I've heard a couple
things about what you came

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to this session to find out
about. The only thing I

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really have set in my mind is
that I think a lot of

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people want to see how I do a
podcast, which may be

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different from the way you're
doing it. But if

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anyone has a direction you'd
like to go right now,

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just let me know so that we can
get a mic to you

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and go down that path.
Otherwise, I'm going to do

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whatever the hell I want to do.
Just wait until the

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mic comes up. And please, let's
know who you are,

10:32.960 --> 10:34.600
the URL or podcast.

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Hi, I love your show. I listen
to it all the time.

10:37.440 --> 10:40.680
My name is Donovan Watts. I work
for the National

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Radio Project and they put out a
weekly show called

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Making Contact. It's a 30-minute
audio

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documentary, RadioProject.org.
And it's just perfect for

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podcasting. I've been wanting to
do this for a long

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time. So recently I started
podcasting and a whole

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week radio picked us up and
without my even saying

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anything. So I'm pretty excited
about the

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potential. But we have two
audiences. One is the

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listeners with the iPods and the
listening

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devices. But the other people
I'm interested

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in getting a hold of are the
stations. You

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know, every week we send out
hundreds of CDs and I

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want to eliminate that. So, you
know, what I have

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a real interest in is how to get
these stations

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to get on board and how to make
it easy for

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them to get the show.

11:26.160 --> 11:28.040
Okay, so what you're, if I
understand your

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question correctly, is how can
you use, excuse

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me, podcasting as a syndication
method for

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traditional broadcast? Okay,
well, Tony, do you

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want to jump in here? Because
you are quite

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familiar with, let's call it
traditional

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radio. We've got a microphone
coming down

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here to Tony, please. There you
go. Tony Khan

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is a legend in the public, well,
not just

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public radio, but in radio in
general.

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Just look up his CV on the web
and he

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currently has a podcast of
Morning

11:57.800 --> 12:01.240
Stories also on WGBHN in the
podcast.

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That's the surest way to shut me
up. Call

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me a legend. I guess I've said
it all

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already and I have no idea what
I said.

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So, the main problem, excuse me,
the main

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problem in trying to get
anything from

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the outside into broadcasting is
the

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same problem that you face in
any line

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of work from being in the
Pentagon to

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being a camel trader in a
bazaar, and

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that is you got to know
somebody. It's

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all personal and you've got to
persuade

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them that what you have really
is

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essential to their well-being,
happiness,

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it may be the preservation of
their job.

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So that's a huge problem. It's
got

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nothing at all to do with the
quality

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of the content of your show. And
I

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think an enormous amount of
energy can

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be misspent trying to get what
you've

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got that's original and fresh
into a

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medium like broadcasting, which
already

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has its own ideas about what it
wants

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to do. And I'm here because I
believe

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that all that time, energy, and
sense

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of fun is better spent trying to

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create a market and an
environment and

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a climate for new ideas that is

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different from broadcasting so
that

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broadcasting as a whole can
start to

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come and say, geez, we got
something to

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learn from you guys. You are
essential

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to our survival now. So what was
that

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show you were doing? I think if
we

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build community here and we
build new

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ideas and we appreciate the fact
that

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the main difference between
what's

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happening here and what's
happening in

13:29.240 --> 13:31.280
broadcasting is that this
movement is

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young, it's supple, it's fresh,
it's

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about partying and about having
fun a

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lot more than it's about making
money

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and keeping your job. Those
qualities

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are rare. They don't last
terribly long

13:42.440 --> 13:46.200
anywhere. Make sure you hold on
to that

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and make sure you get to express
your

13:49.240 --> 13:51.000
show, Adam, for instance, is
creating a

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new form. Every podcast I've
heard is

13:52.960 --> 13:54.720
creating a new form. Don and
Drew is a

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new form. They would never,
never come

13:57.480 --> 14:01.800
out of public broadcasting. I
thought

14:01.800 --> 14:03.440
the mile-housing was
interesting. They

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would never be allowed in the
bathroom

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probably at WGBH. But it's real

14:09.760 --> 14:13.080
important to remember that the
hits are

14:13.080 --> 14:14.800
going to come from the bottom
up, from

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the outside in. No programmer
knows how

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to make a hit, but they think
that's

14:20.120 --> 14:22.520
their job. So they will listen
to the

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wrong things. So I don't want to

14:25.160 --> 14:27.880
repeat myself, but I guess I am.
Try not

14:27.880 --> 14:29.840
to spend too much time getting
into

14:29.840 --> 14:32.000
broadcasting if you think of
yourself as

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a podcaster. If you think of
yourself

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as a podcaster, figure out what
is

14:36.240 --> 14:37.720
really special and different
about

14:37.720 --> 14:40.880
podcasting and then get
broadcasting to

14:40.880 --> 14:44.120
salivate about it. Right. It's
what Tony

14:44.120 --> 14:45.600
is saying here is one of the big
things

14:45.600 --> 14:48.120
that I really love about what
we're

14:48.120 --> 14:50.920
doing is exactly that. It's fun.
You

14:50.920 --> 14:52.880
can hear the pattern. I've been
in

14:52.880 --> 14:57.080
radio since I was 15 and there's
all

14:57.080 --> 14:58.160
these rules, you know, there's
all

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these ways that you kind of do
stuff

14:59.720 --> 15:03.000
and time is definitely money. No

15:03.000 --> 15:04.480
matter if you're public radio or

15:04.480 --> 15:06.640
not, every minute is accounted
for.

15:06.640 --> 15:11.800
And my wife, who I've been with
for 17

15:11.800 --> 15:14.360
years now, in the early, early
days of

15:14.360 --> 15:16.400
my career, I would be on radio
and

15:16.400 --> 15:18.160
television and if I would flub a
line

15:18.160 --> 15:20.720
and they don't always let you

15:20.720 --> 15:22.240
redo stuff, you know, the
director

15:22.240 --> 15:23.400
makes the decisions and now
we're not

15:23.400 --> 15:24.960
going to do that over because my
shots

15:24.960 --> 15:26.200
were great, fuck whatever you
said.

15:26.200 --> 15:29.760
I don't like television. That's
one

15:29.760 --> 15:31.840
of many reasons. But I would be

15:31.840 --> 15:34.480
really upset and we're talking
85

15:34.480 --> 15:37.360
and I'd sit at home and go, oh,
I fucked up that line.

15:37.360 --> 15:39.760
And she said, oh man, that was
the best

15:39.760 --> 15:41.840
part. So you became human for
like a

15:41.840 --> 15:47.200
nanosecond. And that's exactly
what it is.

15:47.200 --> 15:49.240
You can hear the humanity, you
can hear

15:49.240 --> 15:51.840
it all coming through. Don and
Drew are

15:51.840 --> 15:53.440
both here, right? Where are you
guys

15:53.440 --> 15:59.760
sitting? Stand up for a second.

15:59.760 --> 16:03.120
Can we get a microphone up?

16:03.120 --> 16:05.200
Now despite what you've heard,
Don and I

16:05.200 --> 16:07.280
have no relationship of sexual
nature. I

16:07.280 --> 16:08.720
did not have sexual relations
with that

16:08.720 --> 16:12.160
woman.

16:12.160 --> 16:13.440
Yet.

16:13.440 --> 16:15.280
Hey Drew.

16:15.280 --> 16:17.760
What I'd like to hear from you
guys

16:17.760 --> 16:21.760
is what got you started. I think
I can

16:21.760 --> 16:24.560
kind of feel that Drew is

16:24.560 --> 16:26.080
clearly the producer and he's

16:26.080 --> 16:28.880
driving Don in a way. But you
know,

16:28.960 --> 16:31.040
maybe you could just tell us how
you

16:31.040 --> 16:32.720
fell into this and why you've
been

16:32.720 --> 16:34.320
doing it every single day and
why you

16:34.320 --> 16:36.320
keep doing it and just your
feelings

16:36.320 --> 16:38.160
about that.

16:38.160 --> 16:39.680
Sure. Yeah, you're not allowed
to hold

16:39.680 --> 16:42.640
the mic.

16:42.640 --> 16:44.480
I've just been into the internet
and

16:44.480 --> 16:45.840
blogging and all that stuff for,
you

16:45.840 --> 16:47.600
know, years now. And I'm
actually

16:47.600 --> 16:49.600
friends with Pete Raster Webb.

16:49.600 --> 16:51.040
And he's the guy that kind of
just

16:51.040 --> 16:52.640
pushed me into it. You know, one

16:52.640 --> 16:53.760
weekend he was like, you better
put

16:53.760 --> 16:55.760
something out or else, you know,

16:55.760 --> 16:57.120
some wisecrack. And so I did and
it

16:57.120 --> 16:59.840
was real stupid. And so, you
know,

16:59.840 --> 17:01.920
Don heard it and I just kind of
like,

17:01.920 --> 17:03.680
you know, we're a team and

17:03.680 --> 17:06.400
she's the talent. I'm just the
yes,

17:06.400 --> 17:08.560
the tech. And it's just been,
you

17:08.560 --> 17:09.760
know, it's just been crazy,
something

17:09.760 --> 17:11.040
fun, you know, just been having
a

17:11.040 --> 17:12.160
blast.

17:12.160 --> 17:13.120
Don, is that really the way it

17:13.120 --> 17:13.680
happened?

17:13.680 --> 17:15.760
Yeah, his first podcast was so

17:15.760 --> 17:19.360
nerdy I couldn't even take it.

17:19.360 --> 17:21.440
And I was like, wait a second.

17:21.440 --> 17:23.360
This sounds like a cool way for
me

17:23.360 --> 17:25.760
to rant and people can listen.

17:25.760 --> 17:28.640
And so I kind of mooched in on
his

17:28.640 --> 17:29.440
thing.

17:29.440 --> 17:33.360
So.

17:33.360 --> 17:35.040
She's always been the talent.

17:35.040 --> 17:35.520
Sorry?

17:35.520 --> 17:36.640
She's always been the talent.
I've

17:36.640 --> 17:38.000
just always, you know, looked
for

17:38.000 --> 17:40.240
the vehicle to put her out
there.

17:40.240 --> 17:43.680
He's making me blush.

17:43.680 --> 17:46.720
Last night's show should.

17:46.720 --> 17:49.920
Um, is it hard to get up the

17:49.920 --> 17:51.200
energy to do a show every single

17:51.200 --> 17:52.880
day?

17:52.880 --> 17:54.800
Oh, sometimes I just can't do
it.

17:54.800 --> 17:56.160
I'm just too tired.

17:56.160 --> 17:58.560
But, um, I don't know, we don't
do

17:58.560 --> 18:00.240
it every day anymore, because I
was

18:00.240 --> 18:02.000
getting kind of burnt out. And
you

18:02.000 --> 18:04.560
can only say like, fuck and shit
so

18:04.560 --> 18:06.160
many times in a night before it

18:06.160 --> 18:15.040
becomes, you know.

18:15.040 --> 18:16.800
What, uh, what are you coming

18:16.800 --> 18:18.480
looking for from, from the
podcasting

18:18.480 --> 18:19.760
session? Is there anything
that's at

18:19.760 --> 18:21.760
the top of your mind?

18:21.760 --> 18:23.680
You know, I just wanted to, um,
you

18:23.680 --> 18:24.880
know, since we kind of got
wrapped

18:24.880 --> 18:26.320
into this whole thing so fast, I
just

18:26.320 --> 18:28.000
wanted to, uh, you know, just
take

18:28.000 --> 18:29.200
advantage of being here.

18:29.200 --> 18:30.880
You know, meeting you, meeting
Dave,

18:30.880 --> 18:33.440
just, uh, just having a good old

18:33.440 --> 18:34.480
time.

18:34.480 --> 18:35.760
Excellent. Okay. Well, you're

18:35.760 --> 18:37.120
welcome to, you're welcome here.
We're

18:37.120 --> 18:39.120
happy to have you guys.

18:39.120 --> 18:42.000
Yeah, uh, Dave is, yes, right
on.

18:42.000 --> 18:44.400
Um, let me just tell you about
Dave

18:44.400 --> 18:45.520
Slusher.

18:45.520 --> 18:47.360
What do you live, is it?

18:47.440 --> 18:48.960
How am I South Carolina?

18:48.960 --> 18:50.160
Is that right, Steve?

18:50.160 --> 18:53.200
Yes, it is.

18:53.200 --> 18:58.000
Um, uh, Dave was kind of the,
the

18:58.000 --> 18:59.680
first guy that we were cross

18:59.680 --> 19:00.880
podcasting. He caught on

19:00.880 --> 19:03.120
immediately and I don't, I can't

19:03.120 --> 19:04.720
remember how I, I probably threw
a

19:04.720 --> 19:06.400
referral log or whatever and
then

19:06.400 --> 19:07.840
I was like, whoa, you know,
here's a

19:07.840 --> 19:09.600
guy talking about hurricanes
and,

19:09.600 --> 19:10.640
you know, and how I was really

19:10.640 --> 19:12.480
worried about what was going on.

19:12.480 --> 19:14.640
It was so personal, but we
started

19:14.640 --> 19:16.320
doing this almost like at a
radio,

19:16.320 --> 19:18.480
like at a real radio station
where,

19:18.480 --> 19:19.840
and it used to be that way where
the

19:19.840 --> 19:21.200
jocks would talk about each
other and

19:21.200 --> 19:22.560
the morning guy would talk about
the

19:22.560 --> 19:24.000
midday guy coming up and, oh,
did you

19:24.000 --> 19:25.280
hear the overnight guy?

19:25.280 --> 19:27.040
And so we were having this, this

19:27.040 --> 19:30.880
conversation and, uh, shoot, I
think,

19:30.880 --> 19:32.960
the actual term podcasting, you

19:32.960 --> 19:34.880
figured out that we should, uh,

19:34.880 --> 19:36.080
well explain, uh, explain who's

19:36.080 --> 19:37.360
sitting next to you and why
don't you

19:37.360 --> 19:38.640
tell us about yourself and how
you

19:38.640 --> 19:39.200
got into podcasting.

19:39.200 --> 19:40.640
Okay, well, I'm Dave Slusher of

19:40.640 --> 19:43.680
Evil Genius Chronicles and, uh,

19:43.680 --> 19:48.800
yeah, so, you know, I just
happened to

19:48.800 --> 19:50.320
be, you know, I've been reading

19:50.320 --> 19:52.640
Adam's, uh, weblog for a long
time and

19:52.640 --> 19:53.840
I just happened to be in the
right

19:53.840 --> 19:55.440
place at the right time to get
in

19:55.440 --> 19:57.840
early, you know, I had this, I
already

19:57.840 --> 19:59.120
had the stuff in my house.

19:59.120 --> 20:00.880
That's, that's what gave me,
like, a

20:00.880 --> 20:02.000
weak head start on everyone
else.

20:02.000 --> 20:03.520
I already had stuff, because I
had

20:03.520 --> 20:05.760
produced it, I had been in radio

20:05.760 --> 20:08.000
before and I had produced a show

20:08.000 --> 20:10.000
that was syndicated in public
radio,

20:10.000 --> 20:12.080
like from my house, literally.

20:12.080 --> 20:14.400
And, uh, so I've kind of been
through

20:14.400 --> 20:16.160
the whole, you know, getting
into the

20:16.160 --> 20:19.360
actual big, or not big, but
public

20:19.360 --> 20:20.800
radio system as an independent

20:20.800 --> 20:22.880
producer, which the barrier is
lower

20:22.880 --> 20:24.000
than you would think, but it is
a

20:24.000 --> 20:25.200
barrier.

20:25.200 --> 20:27.200
And so I have been through that

20:27.200 --> 20:29.520
and so the, the notion of kind
of the,

20:29.520 --> 20:31.920
the almost no friction or very
low

20:31.920 --> 20:34.240
friction, very low barrier to
entry,

20:34.240 --> 20:36.320
um, for doing a very similar
kind of

20:36.320 --> 20:38.560
thing would just really appeal
to me.

20:38.560 --> 20:40.080
And so when I listened to the
first

20:40.080 --> 20:42.000
couple of, uh, Adam's Daily
Source

20:42.000 --> 20:44.320
Codes, uh, I more or less,

20:44.320 --> 20:45.840
I said I think in the very first
one,

20:45.840 --> 20:47.120
I gave, I had, there's a great
quote

20:47.120 --> 20:48.480
from Rick Nielsen of Cheap Trick

20:48.480 --> 20:49.760
for Bands. He said, when you
first

20:49.760 --> 20:51.600
start doing a band, pick a band
you

20:51.600 --> 20:53.920
love, find their most obscure
songs,

20:53.920 --> 20:55.120
and cover them, and everyone
will

20:55.120 --> 20:56.400
think they're yours.

20:56.400 --> 20:58.400
I remember you saying, yeah,
yeah,

20:58.400 --> 20:59.280
remember that. No one will, no
one

20:59.280 --> 21:00.640
will know the song and then you

21:00.640 --> 21:02.480
find your own voice while you're

21:02.480 --> 21:04.080
slavishly imitating them and

21:04.080 --> 21:05.360
eventually it'll come out and
it'll

21:05.360 --> 21:06.800
be different and it'll be you.
And I,

21:06.800 --> 21:08.000
I kind of think that's what
happened

21:08.000 --> 21:09.680
is my first, I don't know, five
or

21:09.680 --> 21:11.440
ten were more or less the junior

21:11.440 --> 21:13.280
varsity version of, of Adam's
show,

21:13.920 --> 21:15.520
but over time it's kind of
become

21:15.520 --> 21:16.880
different and I, you know, we're

21:16.880 --> 21:18.320
doing different sorts of things
now

21:18.320 --> 21:19.520
and so it kind of worked like it

21:19.520 --> 21:21.760
was supposed to. But, uh, you
know,

21:21.760 --> 21:24.240
so that's just, you know, I, I
have

21:25.040 --> 21:28.320
over time, uh, uh, Dana Greenlee

21:28.320 --> 21:30.720
from, uh, Web Talk Radio
actually

21:31.680 --> 21:33.680
in one of the, discussing the
show

21:34.400 --> 21:35.360
mentioned that I sounded like

21:35.360 --> 21:37.280
Ira Glass and until she said

21:37.280 --> 21:39.360
that, I hadn't realized that

21:39.360 --> 21:42.240
I probably actually am because
I'm

21:42.240 --> 21:43.440
a huge fan of that guy. I think

21:43.440 --> 21:44.960
that's maybe the most brilliant

21:44.960 --> 21:46.160
show in the history of public

21:46.160 --> 21:48.720
radio at This American Life,

21:49.280 --> 21:50.640
which is hard to remember now

21:50.640 --> 21:51.520
because we've been soaking in it

21:51.520 --> 21:52.800
for almost a decade, but it was

21:52.800 --> 21:54.320
so different when it first came

21:54.320 --> 21:55.920
out and so that's actually kind

21:55.920 --> 21:56.880
of the direction I've been

21:56.880 --> 21:58.960
trying to take things and
without

21:58.960 --> 22:00.640
probably really realizing it.

22:01.280 --> 22:03.280
But, uh, what I like about that

22:03.280 --> 22:04.480
is, is it brought kind of a

22:04.480 --> 22:07.040
personal connection, uh, to
public

22:07.040 --> 22:08.240
radio that maybe hadn't been

22:08.240 --> 22:09.680
there and that's, that's what

22:09.680 --> 22:12.400
this is all about to me is, uh,

22:12.400 --> 22:15.440
when I listen to whomever it is,

22:15.440 --> 22:17.200
I always feel more of a personal

22:17.200 --> 22:20.000
connection from engaging, uh, in

22:20.000 --> 22:22.320
their podcast. Even somebody
like

22:22.320 --> 22:23.600
you who I've been reading your

22:23.600 --> 22:25.680
text for years and years, uh, I

22:25.680 --> 22:27.360
feel more connected to you when

22:27.360 --> 22:29.040
I listen to one single episode
of

22:29.040 --> 22:31.040
your show than I did for a

22:31.040 --> 22:32.800
year of reading text blogs

22:32.800 --> 22:34.720
because I hear your voice, uh,
you

22:34.720 --> 22:36.320
know, I get, I, I feel like

22:36.320 --> 22:37.520
there's more of a person at the

22:37.520 --> 22:40.320
other end and so that's what I

22:40.320 --> 22:42.080
like doing. I love the fact that

22:42.080 --> 22:43.040
I've, I don't know, I've talked
to

22:43.040 --> 22:45.520
15 or 20 people who like, feel

22:45.520 --> 22:47.280
like they know me since I've

22:47.280 --> 22:50.960
been here and, uh, and vice

22:50.960 --> 22:52.400
versa. I feel like I know
people.

22:52.400 --> 22:53.440
I feel like I know Mike Butler.

22:53.440 --> 22:54.640
I've never met the guy, you
know?

22:54.640 --> 22:56.160
It, it used to be that way also

22:56.160 --> 22:57.920
on radio. You would, you would

22:57.920 --> 22:59.360
intimately know your favorite

22:59.360 --> 23:00.480
DJ. You know, you would

23:00.480 --> 23:01.840
intimately know all about him

23:01.840 --> 23:02.880
because he could talk a lot more

23:02.880 --> 23:04.640
freely and I think this, uh,

23:04.640 --> 23:05.840
you know, it's, it's a lot more

23:05.840 --> 23:07.200
of the reality of life that's

23:07.200 --> 23:08.400
getting back into that. I agree.

23:08.400 --> 23:09.280
They just want to briefly

23:09.280 --> 23:10.560
explain how, how the pod, how

23:10.560 --> 23:11.680
podcasting came about because

23:11.680 --> 23:12.400
that's, I would just want to

23:12.400 --> 23:13.520
make sure that that's really

23:13.520 --> 23:14.640
clear because it's interesting

23:14.640 --> 23:15.680
way it happened.

23:15.680 --> 23:17.200
I'm sitting next to, uh, Danny

23:17.200 --> 23:19.040
Gregory who I'd like to, uh,

23:19.040 --> 23:20.240
make sure everyone realizes is

23:20.240 --> 23:21.840
a brilliant bastard and he's

23:21.840 --> 23:23.280
the guy who coined the term

23:23.280 --> 23:24.320
podcast.

23:24.320 --> 23:25.520
All right Danny.

23:25.520 --> 23:31.440
He, uh, so he's the guy who

23:31.440 --> 23:33.200
coined the term and a few of us

23:33.200 --> 23:34.400
started running with it so

23:35.040 --> 23:36.880
either the credit or the blame

23:36.880 --> 23:38.000
goes kind of towards this end.

23:39.200 --> 23:40.240
I tend to think it's credit,

23:40.240 --> 23:41.360
certain people think it's blame,

23:42.000 --> 23:44.800
but, uh, I just saw a referral.

23:44.800 --> 23:46.240
So you had coined the term

23:46.240 --> 23:47.680
and registered the domain

23:47.680 --> 23:50.400
and I saw like a robot hit

23:50.400 --> 23:51.440
my weblog and I'm like,

23:51.440 --> 23:52.160
podcast?

23:52.720 --> 23:54.560
Hmm, what is this podcast

23:54.560 --> 23:55.280
of which you speak?

23:56.240 --> 23:57.840
And then he used the term on

23:57.840 --> 23:59.280
the iPod or dev list and it's

23:59.280 --> 24:00.160
one of those kind of,

24:00.720 --> 24:01.680
it's like it hit the

24:01.680 --> 24:03.040
resonance energy and it just

24:03.040 --> 24:04.400
made everything vibrate

24:04.400 --> 24:05.520
perfectly.

24:05.520 --> 24:07.440
And so we had been

24:07.440 --> 24:08.480
talking about a lot of stuff

24:08.480 --> 24:09.120
and we had been,

24:09.120 --> 24:10.080
we all knew what we were

24:10.080 --> 24:10.720
talking about,

24:10.720 --> 24:12.240
but none of the terms like

24:12.240 --> 24:13.200
plucked the string and,

24:13.200 --> 24:14.080
you know, made a note.

24:14.640 --> 24:16.080
And that was the one and

24:16.080 --> 24:17.200
you'll notice that we talked

24:17.200 --> 24:18.560
about, Steve Gilmore had

24:18.560 --> 24:19.680
been talking about the iPod

24:19.680 --> 24:21.440
platform and everyone kind of

24:21.440 --> 24:22.160
knew what he meant,

24:22.160 --> 24:23.440
but once you had this like

24:24.000 --> 24:24.640
sexy term,

24:25.280 --> 24:26.640
an explosion happened and kind

24:26.640 --> 24:26.960
of the,

24:27.520 --> 24:28.800
I tend to kind of

24:29.440 --> 24:30.480
think there's something

24:30.480 --> 24:31.200
causal there,

24:31.200 --> 24:32.080
but you know,

24:32.960 --> 24:34.640
there's an argument that

24:34.640 --> 24:35.600
can be made either way,

24:35.600 --> 24:36.400
but that's,

24:36.400 --> 24:37.680
that's where the actual word

24:37.680 --> 24:38.480
came from.

24:38.480 --> 24:39.680
Podcasters like to talk.

24:40.400 --> 24:40.960
It's really good.

24:40.960 --> 24:41.440
Sorry.

24:41.440 --> 24:42.400
Thank you very much, Dave.

24:42.400 --> 24:43.360
Steve, I was going to call on

24:43.360 --> 24:44.400
Steve Gilmore actually.

24:45.040 --> 24:45.920
Steve, could you raise your

24:45.920 --> 24:47.120
hand or stand up?

24:47.120 --> 24:47.360
Thank you.

24:47.360 --> 24:48.240
Can we get a microphone?

24:49.600 --> 24:50.720
You may or may not have heard

24:50.720 --> 24:51.520
the Gilmore gang,

24:52.560 --> 24:53.440
which you can find through.

24:53.440 --> 24:54.240
I, yes.

24:58.080 --> 24:58.880
You can find that through

24:59.440 --> 25:01.440
itconversations.com,

25:01.440 --> 25:02.080
Doug Kay,

25:02.080 --> 25:03.920
who runs and produces

25:03.920 --> 25:04.960
and does everything

25:04.960 --> 25:06.160
as up there at the back.

25:06.160 --> 25:07.680
He's also working on our
webcast.

25:07.680 --> 25:08.480
Thank you very much, Doug.

25:12.960 --> 25:14.080
If you want to jack in,

25:14.080 --> 25:14.560
by the way,

25:14.560 --> 25:16.400
there's plenty of connectors.

25:16.400 --> 25:17.440
But Steve,

25:17.440 --> 25:18.240
the Gilmore gang was

25:18.800 --> 25:19.520
around before

25:20.080 --> 25:22.880
the iPod functionality came out.

25:24.320 --> 25:24.640
You want to-

25:24.640 --> 25:25.760
Yeah, it was all my idea,

25:25.760 --> 25:26.240
basically,

25:26.240 --> 25:26.880
this whole thing.

25:28.560 --> 25:29.360
We knew that, Steve.

25:30.560 --> 25:31.840
And I just want to

25:31.840 --> 25:32.640
point to

25:32.720 --> 25:34.000
another member of the Gilmore
gang

25:34.000 --> 25:35.200
in the third row,

25:35.200 --> 25:35.840
Doc Searles.

25:35.840 --> 25:36.480
Searles, yep.

25:40.720 --> 25:42.160
So what do you want me to say?

25:44.880 --> 25:46.080
I just want you to take credit

25:46.080 --> 25:47.200
for inventing all this, Steve,

25:47.200 --> 25:47.760
that's all.

25:47.760 --> 25:49.280
Okay, well, my job is done.

25:50.240 --> 25:52.400
Tell me what has happened

25:52.400 --> 25:54.080
since you started

25:54.080 --> 25:55.440
with the Gilmore gang

25:55.440 --> 25:56.480
and now we have

25:57.200 --> 25:59.200
what you call the iPod platform.

25:59.200 --> 25:59.760
Well, you know,

25:59.760 --> 26:00.640
there was an interesting

26:01.520 --> 26:02.880
evolution of the Gilmore gang.

26:03.520 --> 26:04.240
When I first

26:05.040 --> 26:06.240
started talking with Doug Kay

26:06.240 --> 26:06.720
about this,

26:07.680 --> 26:08.800
how long ago was that, Doug?

26:08.800 --> 26:10.160
About six months?

26:10.160 --> 26:11.520
Six months?

26:11.520 --> 26:12.240
I don't know.

26:12.240 --> 26:12.720
Six months.

26:15.200 --> 26:16.800
Doug was doing,

26:16.800 --> 26:17.920
as you can see,

26:17.920 --> 26:20.160
from his IT conversation site.

26:20.160 --> 26:21.280
He was doing a lot of

26:22.000 --> 26:23.360
transcripts

26:23.360 --> 26:26.400
for the performances

26:26.400 --> 26:28.080
that he was putting on the
network.

26:28.720 --> 26:30.240
And so

26:30.320 --> 26:31.840
we had a couple of transcripts

26:31.840 --> 26:33.520
cut of the first few Gilmore

26:33.520 --> 26:34.160
gangs.

26:34.160 --> 26:35.120
And I read them

26:35.120 --> 26:35.600
and, you know,

26:35.600 --> 26:36.480
first of all, I had to,

26:37.840 --> 26:38.400
they, you know,

26:38.400 --> 26:39.760
I think they went off to India.

26:39.760 --> 26:41.680
So it was an interesting

26:41.680 --> 26:42.640
version of English

26:42.640 --> 26:43.360
that came back.

26:44.640 --> 26:46.080
And so I just didn't

26:46.080 --> 26:46.880
want to do the work

26:46.880 --> 26:48.480
of proofing it.

26:48.480 --> 26:49.440
You know, it was basically,

26:49.440 --> 26:50.640
I was lazy.

26:50.640 --> 26:52.400
But over time,

26:52.400 --> 26:53.280
we started watching

26:53.280 --> 26:54.800
the characteristics of the

26:55.920 --> 26:57.840
relationship between

26:57.840 --> 26:59.600
streaming and downloads.

27:00.240 --> 27:01.760
And for almost from the
beginning,

27:02.480 --> 27:04.880
the downloads outnumbered

27:04.880 --> 27:06.080
streaming by two to one.

27:06.720 --> 27:08.560
So this was the beginning

27:08.560 --> 27:09.120
of a hint.

27:09.680 --> 27:11.200
And I kept, you know,

27:11.200 --> 27:12.000
Tim Bray once

27:12.640 --> 27:13.760
I am to me and said,

27:14.800 --> 27:15.040
you know,

27:15.680 --> 27:17.520
that he just didn't have time

27:17.520 --> 27:18.400
for the Gilmore gang.

27:18.400 --> 27:19.440
And, you know, that it was,

27:19.440 --> 27:20.400
you know, an hour and,

27:20.400 --> 27:21.520
you know, maybe 10 minutes,

27:21.520 --> 27:22.720
you know, whatever.

27:22.720 --> 27:24.640
And I sort of at that point

27:24.640 --> 27:26.160
made it my goal in life

27:26.160 --> 27:28.080
to make it as long as possible.

27:28.880 --> 27:33.200
And one time,

27:33.200 --> 27:34.240
we had Brendan Eich,

27:34.240 --> 27:36.800
who's the architect of Mozilla
on.

27:37.520 --> 27:39.040
And the next day,

27:41.520 --> 27:43.040
Tim calls me,

27:43.040 --> 27:44.720
doesn't even I am me,

27:44.720 --> 27:46.560
calls me to say,

27:46.560 --> 27:48.240
and he wrote this long post

27:48.240 --> 27:49.120
about, you know,

27:49.120 --> 27:50.640
obviously he'd been trapped

27:50.640 --> 27:51.840
into this discussion

27:51.840 --> 27:52.800
because it was all about

27:52.800 --> 27:54.560
stuff that he was interested in.

27:54.560 --> 27:56.560
And from that moment on,

27:56.560 --> 27:57.200
we had him.

27:57.760 --> 27:58.560
So I,

27:58.560 --> 27:59.680
we're never going to do any

27:59.680 --> 28:01.200
transcripts on the Gilmore gang.

28:01.840 --> 28:04.480
And essentially,

28:04.480 --> 28:05.520
that is the,

28:05.520 --> 28:07.040
you know, the capturing

28:07.040 --> 28:07.760
the attention,

28:08.400 --> 28:09.920
the voice as you've done

28:09.920 --> 28:11.040
and as Dave has done,

28:11.600 --> 28:11.840
you know,

28:12.960 --> 28:14.720
and as Dave Slusher

28:14.720 --> 28:16.320
and Don and Drew,

28:16.320 --> 28:18.240
I mean, the cast of characters

28:18.240 --> 28:20.320
is already beyond

28:20.880 --> 28:22.080
what we can consume,

28:23.520 --> 28:24.960
you know, and have real lives.

28:25.680 --> 28:28.320
So, you know,

28:28.320 --> 28:29.520
I think we're now we're poised

28:29.520 --> 28:30.880
for the next generation of this,

28:30.880 --> 28:32.320
which is where we figure out

28:32.320 --> 28:34.160
how to be able to mine attention

28:34.720 --> 28:36.880
and tag

28:36.880 --> 28:38.240
and provide metadata

28:38.240 --> 28:39.440
on these feeds.

28:39.440 --> 28:40.960
Because from my perspective,

28:40.960 --> 28:41.840
and I know this is,

28:43.120 --> 28:43.920
you know,

28:43.920 --> 28:44.880
may not be,

28:44.880 --> 28:45.680
I know there are people

28:45.680 --> 28:46.320
like Dave Weiner

28:46.320 --> 28:47.200
who disagree with me,

28:48.000 --> 28:48.880
I think.

28:48.880 --> 28:52.160
But I see the blogosphere as

28:52.800 --> 28:56.800
an annotation for the

28:56.800 --> 28:57.680
for the podosphere.

28:59.600 --> 29:00.400
I think that's where the

29:00.400 --> 29:01.760
metadata is going to go.

29:01.760 --> 29:02.720
I think that the,

29:02.720 --> 29:04.400
you know, the information

29:04.400 --> 29:06.000
that is in the blogosphere

29:06.560 --> 29:08.720
is going to be used

29:08.720 --> 29:10.960
to reveal the opaque

29:11.680 --> 29:13.280
network of the podosphere

29:13.280 --> 29:15.040
that is emerging here,

29:15.040 --> 29:15.680
you know,

29:15.680 --> 29:16.960
how you find out about

29:16.960 --> 29:18.080
what is interesting,

29:18.080 --> 29:19.520
who is interested in what,

29:20.080 --> 29:21.120
the kind of conversation

29:21.120 --> 29:21.840
that you're having

29:22.720 --> 29:24.400
in the podosphere

29:24.400 --> 29:25.760
between Dave Slusher

29:25.760 --> 29:27.440
and Don and Drew

29:27.440 --> 29:28.240
and all the people

29:28.240 --> 29:30.080
that you're putting

29:30.080 --> 29:30.720
on your show

29:30.720 --> 29:31.840
for the first time.

29:31.840 --> 29:33.600
You're the Alan Freed

29:33.600 --> 29:35.760
of podcasting.

29:35.760 --> 29:36.800
Is that a compliment, Steve?

29:37.680 --> 29:39.120
Well, we'll talk about that
later.

29:40.240 --> 29:40.480
You know,

29:40.480 --> 29:41.920
that's an old reference,

29:41.920 --> 29:42.880
but Alan Freed was,

29:42.880 --> 29:43.120
you know,

29:43.120 --> 29:44.000
the sort of the

29:44.000 --> 29:45.600
considered to be the reason

29:45.600 --> 29:46.640
that the Rock and Roll

29:46.640 --> 29:48.320
Hall of Fame is in Cleveland

29:48.320 --> 29:49.920
is because Alan Freed

29:49.920 --> 29:50.480
was born

29:50.560 --> 29:51.200
and grew up there.

29:52.080 --> 29:53.760
So this was a disc jockey who

29:55.440 --> 29:56.640
basically promoted

29:56.640 --> 29:58.880
a bunch of very small bands

29:58.880 --> 29:59.280
into,

30:00.160 --> 30:00.480
you know,

30:00.480 --> 30:01.600
into a revolution.

30:01.600 --> 30:03.680
So what we're dealing with here,

30:03.680 --> 30:04.960
I was just saying to

30:04.960 --> 30:05.760
Nick Bradbury,

30:05.760 --> 30:06.560
who's one of the,

30:06.560 --> 30:06.800
you know,

30:06.800 --> 30:08.080
the author of Feed Demon,

30:08.080 --> 30:09.120
one of which is now

30:09.120 --> 30:10.240
supporting podcasting,

30:10.240 --> 30:10.720
by the way.

30:10.720 --> 30:11.120
Right on.

30:13.920 --> 30:14.720
And I was saying that,

30:14.720 --> 30:14.960
you know,

30:15.600 --> 30:16.160
we're listening

30:16.160 --> 30:16.800
and we're sort of

30:17.760 --> 30:18.480
thrilled to see,

30:18.480 --> 30:18.800
you know,

30:18.800 --> 30:19.680
we're in the same room

30:19.680 --> 30:21.200
with Don and Drew, you know.

30:22.240 --> 30:23.520
But seriously,

30:23.520 --> 30:25.360
this is the beginning of,

30:25.360 --> 30:26.800
we're going to look back on
this,

30:26.800 --> 30:28.000
not very long from now

30:28.000 --> 30:28.800
and realize that

30:29.360 --> 30:30.480
all of these players,

30:31.200 --> 30:32.240
all of us in this room,

30:32.240 --> 30:33.200
in this space,

30:34.480 --> 30:36.000
pardon the expression,

30:36.000 --> 30:38.720
are the next generation

30:38.720 --> 30:40.000
of the media.

30:40.000 --> 30:41.040
This is the new media

30:41.040 --> 30:42.400
and it's being born right now

30:42.400 --> 30:45.120
and this is a seriously big
wave.

30:46.560 --> 30:48.160
Is, did Michael Butler make it
in?

30:49.920 --> 30:51.200
Stand up, Michael.

30:51.200 --> 30:52.000
This is Michael Butler

30:52.000 --> 30:53.440
from the Rock and Roll Geek
Show, everybody.

30:58.640 --> 31:00.000
Something that Steve said,

31:00.000 --> 31:02.240
I obviously want to lead into
music

31:02.240 --> 31:03.440
and as it relates

31:03.440 --> 31:04.800
to what we're doing with
podcasts.

31:06.080 --> 31:06.800
It's great to be

31:08.080 --> 31:08.880
in a law school,

31:09.520 --> 31:10.640
to be able to talk about that.

31:10.640 --> 31:13.600
I don't know if we need to go
deep into stuff,

31:13.600 --> 31:17.040
but Michael has been in a band

31:17.040 --> 31:18.000
for about seven years,

31:18.000 --> 31:20.000
I guess called American
Heartbreak.

31:20.000 --> 31:22.160
Yeah, I have all my CDs here for
you too, by the way.

31:23.600 --> 31:25.440
Why don't you tell us about
yourself

31:25.440 --> 31:26.960
and how you got into podcasting

31:26.960 --> 31:28.480
and what's going on?

31:29.520 --> 31:31.200
I stumbled across your site,

31:32.240 --> 31:34.560
just goofing off one day,

31:34.560 --> 31:35.520
avoiding my wife

31:36.240 --> 31:39.200
and I'm really in the doghouse

31:39.200 --> 31:40.240
right now too, by the way.

31:40.240 --> 31:41.440
I got you, you know, everything
okay?

31:42.320 --> 31:43.920
We'll see how it is when I get
home.

31:43.920 --> 31:46.080
Anyway, so I stumbled across
your site

31:46.320 --> 31:49.280
and saw that you did an audio
blog,

31:49.280 --> 31:50.640
so I was like, hey, that might
be kind of cool

31:50.640 --> 31:52.640
because I was doing a blog for a
long time

31:52.640 --> 31:55.840
and every musician probably
thinks they're a DJ

31:55.840 --> 31:57.840
and wants to turn everybody on
to their music.

31:58.880 --> 32:01.840
So I just tried it, played some
music I like,

32:01.840 --> 32:04.080
figured I'd throw my own band in
there occasionally

32:04.080 --> 32:05.840
and here it is.

32:05.840 --> 32:08.880
Has it done anything?

32:08.880 --> 32:10.400
Have you gotten any responses?

32:10.400 --> 32:11.440
Has it done anything for you

32:11.440 --> 32:12.800
or for the band or for your
music?

32:12.800 --> 32:14.800
Well, my site's been shut down a
couple of times

32:15.520 --> 32:17.760
for too much traffic, which I
guess is kind of cool.

32:19.280 --> 32:19.920
People have been,

32:19.920 --> 32:22.000
a lot more people have been
showing up to the shows,

32:22.000 --> 32:23.040
get a lot of emails.

32:24.160 --> 32:25.920
So you've been plugging me, I
appreciate that.

32:26.720 --> 32:27.440
Well, it's good stuff.

32:28.160 --> 32:28.800
All right then.

32:28.800 --> 32:32.000
And this is something that's a
conversation

32:32.000 --> 32:35.760
that's going on about, just
about music in general

32:36.320 --> 32:39.520
and are there any other radio
people here who,

32:40.480 --> 32:42.000
right there, it doesn't pipe up

32:42.000 --> 32:42.960
any time you feel like it.

32:43.360 --> 32:46.160
Radio, to me, is,

32:46.160 --> 32:47.200
I'm going to bring the mic over
to Tony,

32:48.640 --> 32:50.960
has been the soundtrack to my
life.

32:51.920 --> 32:54.320
So, whether it doesn't even have
to be music,

32:54.320 --> 32:56.400
but music really works well in
my brain.

32:59.440 --> 33:00.880
What we don't have yet

33:00.880 --> 33:03.440
or what we haven't had with what
we're coining

33:03.440 --> 33:08.480
non-RIAA music or music that
basically,

33:08.480 --> 33:11.040
that with the creator's
permission,

33:11.040 --> 33:12.320
you can play and don't have to
deal

33:12.320 --> 33:15.040
with a whole bunch of rights
organizations

33:15.040 --> 33:17.520
and payments and legalese.

33:19.120 --> 33:21.760
Is it, yeah, you can go to
garageband.com

33:21.760 --> 33:23.920
and surf through stuff and
listen to it.

33:23.920 --> 33:24.560
Yeah, you can go.

33:25.280 --> 33:26.480
There's just a million places

33:26.480 --> 33:28.000
with great independent music.

33:29.360 --> 33:32.080
But to have someone you listen
to

33:32.080 --> 33:33.280
because you like the show

33:33.280 --> 33:35.120
or you trust them or whatever
you feel,

33:35.120 --> 33:36.400
to say, oh, and by the way,

33:36.400 --> 33:38.240
here's American Heartbreak

33:39.440 --> 33:40.800
or here's Mo Jones.

33:40.800 --> 33:42.640
I know I've sold at least one CD

33:42.640 --> 33:44.400
to Steve Gilmore of Mo Jones.

33:45.520 --> 33:47.440
It becomes a whole different
feeling

33:47.440 --> 33:49.120
and it's like your friend

33:49.120 --> 33:50.720
is recommending something to
you.

33:51.600 --> 33:52.560
It's almost intangible,

33:52.560 --> 33:54.640
but it's starting to work so
well,

33:54.640 --> 33:56.080
in fact, that my daughter,

33:56.080 --> 33:58.400
who's a weblogger, she's 14,

33:58.400 --> 34:00.000
she's a big fan of Good
Charlotte.

34:00.000 --> 34:01.680
She has a, her weblog is

34:01.680 --> 34:03.360
land of the young and the
hopeless.com.

34:05.440 --> 34:08.720
And the opening band for the
Good Charlotte tour

34:08.720 --> 34:10.400
is an unsigned band

34:10.400 --> 34:11.280
called Three Quarters.

34:12.000 --> 34:13.920
And she sent me the MP3.

34:13.920 --> 34:15.520
She's not a podcaster yet,

34:15.520 --> 34:16.800
but she said, hey dad,

34:16.800 --> 34:18.080
you know, I'm talking to their
manager

34:18.080 --> 34:19.600
and you got to play this on your
show.

34:21.760 --> 34:22.720
And think about what,

34:22.720 --> 34:23.760
and I'm going to,

34:23.760 --> 34:24.720
you know, even if it sucks,

34:24.720 --> 34:25.840
I'm going to play it.

34:25.840 --> 34:28.880
But this really important,

34:30.240 --> 34:31.280
that's how hits are born.

34:31.280 --> 34:33.680
That's how music gets out there.

34:33.680 --> 34:35.520
In the top 40 radio,

34:35.520 --> 34:36.720
you know, you want to make sure

34:36.720 --> 34:38.320
that Z100 in New York

34:38.320 --> 34:39.200
adds the record

34:39.200 --> 34:40.480
to their playlist rotation

34:40.480 --> 34:41.520
at the same time

34:41.520 --> 34:43.040
KISS FM Los Angeles does it,

34:43.040 --> 34:43.840
you know, because then,

34:43.840 --> 34:45.120
of course, you'll pour some
marketing

34:45.120 --> 34:46.800
on top and everyone's hearing it

34:46.800 --> 34:48.240
and it starts to all gel
together.

34:48.800 --> 34:49.200
Tony?

34:49.760 --> 34:52.320
I just wanted to ask you a
question, Adam,

34:52.320 --> 34:53.040
because I think,

34:53.520 --> 34:55.360
you know, I'm thinking about
this idea of,

34:55.360 --> 34:58.560
well, users here really means
producers,

34:58.560 --> 35:01.040
you know, the users of all this
technology

35:01.040 --> 35:03.360
of people who want to make a
podcast.

35:03.920 --> 35:05.760
And almost every,

35:05.760 --> 35:07.760
for almost every podcaster I've
spoken with,

35:07.840 --> 35:11.920
the road has led to you as the
podcaster,

35:11.920 --> 35:14.720
because you sort of
anthologized.

35:14.720 --> 35:16.560
Among other things, you set a
tone,

35:16.560 --> 35:18.080
you said, okay, this is going to
be really personal.

35:18.080 --> 35:18.880
It's going to be about me.

35:18.880 --> 35:20.320
It's going to be about my
relationship

35:20.320 --> 35:22.160
with my wife and my kid.

35:22.160 --> 35:24.240
It's going to be about my doing
it out of my house.

35:25.040 --> 35:26.400
It's going to be about me
standing up

35:26.400 --> 35:28.000
and walking around while I'm
doing this

35:28.000 --> 35:30.400
so that there was a very low
buttock factor,

35:30.400 --> 35:32.560
you know, as well in the
broadcast.

35:32.560 --> 35:33.280
You set a tone,

35:33.280 --> 35:34.080
but you also said,

35:34.080 --> 35:35.920
I'm going to collect what you're
sounding like

35:35.920 --> 35:37.040
and play it back to you.

35:37.760 --> 35:42.000
So you made everybody feel that
there was something

35:42.000 --> 35:44.960
that was possible that they
could do

35:44.960 --> 35:46.640
that would make a personal
connection.

35:46.640 --> 35:48.080
It's been very, very personal.

35:48.080 --> 35:49.840
And as someone from public
radio,

35:49.840 --> 35:53.040
I'm really trying to think about
this personal side.

35:53.040 --> 35:57.600
Do you think that there is
something about podcasting

35:57.600 --> 36:01.520
that is going in a direction
that is really different

36:02.720 --> 36:04.720
in terms of the kind of
relationship

36:04.800 --> 36:07.920
that listeners want to form with
a podcast

36:07.920 --> 36:10.160
that public radio should be
looking at?

36:10.160 --> 36:13.680
We see ourselves as content
providers for thoughtful people,

36:13.680 --> 36:15.280
but we may not be thinking
enough

36:15.280 --> 36:18.320
in terms of actually making
direct connections

36:18.320 --> 36:20.240
with people and having people
want

36:20.240 --> 36:22.480
to connect with the people in
public radio.

36:24.000 --> 36:25.760
I yield my time to the
distinguished gentleman

36:25.760 --> 36:26.640
from Seattle.

36:28.560 --> 36:29.200
That was good.

36:29.760 --> 36:30.320
That was good.

36:31.600 --> 36:34.160
That's like saying that it's
like a blog.

36:34.880 --> 36:37.520
I mean, Adam, and it's also like
saying it's like MTV.

36:37.520 --> 36:39.520
That's what Adam did on MTV,
right?

36:39.520 --> 36:42.640
So he would get the stars would
come and wearing knee pads

36:42.640 --> 36:44.640
to try to get them to play their
song.

36:47.840 --> 36:49.600
He gets that and he does it.

36:50.880 --> 36:52.080
That's just his nature.

36:54.080 --> 36:56.880
And to Steve, it is just like a
blog.

36:57.600 --> 36:59.600
I don't see that there's a
difference.

36:59.600 --> 37:00.960
I do a morning coffee notes.

37:00.960 --> 37:03.840
I'm a writer and I'm a talker.

37:04.160 --> 37:04.960
Both.

37:04.960 --> 37:06.880
And you get a different story

37:06.880 --> 37:08.480
when it comes out of the mouth

37:08.480 --> 37:11.120
than you do when it comes out of
the fingers, right?

37:11.920 --> 37:15.120
But I've gone back to writing
morning coffee notes now.

37:15.120 --> 37:17.040
And sometimes I feel like
writing

37:17.040 --> 37:18.400
and sometimes I feel like
talking.

37:18.400 --> 37:22.160
And I sort of just go with the
flow, whatever.

37:22.160 --> 37:24.960
And so I don't see one as
annotating the other.

37:24.960 --> 37:26.800
And so when Tony, you say that
it could

37:27.840 --> 37:30.880
fertilize public radio, of
course it could.

37:31.840 --> 37:34.000
And that's like saying that the
New York Times

37:34.000 --> 37:35.040
should be a weblog.

37:35.040 --> 37:36.880
And the New York Times should be
a weblog.

37:36.880 --> 37:39.040
And the New York Times will be a
weblog

37:39.040 --> 37:40.000
at some point in the future.

37:40.880 --> 37:44.720
Why doesn't the New York Times
have an archive?

37:44.720 --> 37:47.040
Why can't I see what the front
page

37:47.040 --> 37:48.960
of the New York Times website
looked like

37:48.960 --> 37:50.000
on a specific date?

37:50.960 --> 37:53.120
Is there any sense to not having
that feature?

37:53.120 --> 37:54.400
Why wouldn't they want to have
it?

37:55.760 --> 37:56.960
But yet they don't...

37:58.000 --> 38:00.080
There's some reluctance to
actually

38:00.080 --> 38:02.240
take an idea from outside of
their...

38:02.240 --> 38:04.080
You know, they're sort of...

38:04.080 --> 38:06.320
They're very insular and they
want those ideas

38:06.320 --> 38:07.680
to come self-generated.

38:07.680 --> 38:09.280
But they'll do it at some point.

38:09.280 --> 38:10.880
They'll also put stories up in
reverse

38:10.880 --> 38:12.560
chronological order because it's
a very

38:12.560 --> 38:14.880
sensible way to put up stories,
right?

38:14.880 --> 38:17.440
So, yeah, you will distribute
programs

38:17.440 --> 38:19.920
that are created in amateur
space.

38:19.920 --> 38:22.560
You pretty kind of already do in
some way.

38:24.160 --> 38:27.200
And just the same way that a
reporter

38:27.280 --> 38:30.480
for NPR or a reporter for a
newspaper

38:31.280 --> 38:34.320
quotes people that are experts
on what they're doing.

38:34.320 --> 38:37.120
It's just the same idea applied
to a different medium.

38:37.120 --> 38:39.680
And I'd say that one other
comment

38:39.680 --> 38:43.040
that is all going so much faster
with podcasting

38:43.040 --> 38:47.040
because we don't have to wait
for the traditional media

38:47.040 --> 38:50.320
to figure out what we're doing
to carry our message

38:50.320 --> 38:51.680
because we can do it ourselves

38:51.680 --> 38:52.640
because we already have one,

38:52.640 --> 38:54.160
which is called the blogosphere.

38:54.160 --> 38:57.040
And the blogosphere carries the
message of podcasting

38:57.040 --> 38:59.840
and so this thing bootstraps up
in one tenth,

38:59.840 --> 39:01.440
one one hundredth the time

39:01.440 --> 39:03.280
that the blogosphere itself
bootstrapped up

39:03.280 --> 39:04.800
because we already get it.

39:04.800 --> 39:06.000
We already understand

39:06.000 --> 39:08.880
that the voice of an individual
is a powerful thing

39:08.880 --> 39:12.480
whereas there's sort of a sense
in the professional world

39:12.480 --> 39:14.320
that they kind of know it,

39:14.320 --> 39:16.080
but they are in denial of it

39:16.080 --> 39:18.400
and they need it as the security
blanket

39:18.400 --> 39:21.280
because that's all between them
and being on the street.

39:22.080 --> 39:26.640
So anyway, it's kind of a way of
thinking,

39:26.640 --> 39:27.920
I guess is what all I'm saying.

39:27.920 --> 39:29.760
Can you just bring the mic up
there

39:29.760 --> 39:30.880
because now people are getting
into it.

39:30.880 --> 39:31.360
This is good.

39:34.080 --> 39:34.960
Thanks.

39:34.960 --> 39:36.800
Chris Carthy from Half Moon Bay
here

39:36.800 --> 39:38.080
in the great state of
California.

39:38.960 --> 39:40.640
Question I have for the room

39:40.640 --> 39:42.960
is how do we deal with the
discrepancy

39:42.960 --> 39:44.400
between a podcast

39:44.400 --> 39:47.440
which is forced to be listened
to

39:47.440 --> 39:48.960
and absorbed in real time

39:49.520 --> 39:51.600
versus the written word

39:51.600 --> 39:53.200
which can be scanned,

39:53.200 --> 39:54.560
which can be absorbed

39:54.560 --> 39:58.160
and can be sort of self filtered

39:58.160 --> 40:01.120
in a quarter or a tenth of the
time

40:01.120 --> 40:02.560
as listening to something

40:02.560 --> 40:04.640
that you need to listen to

40:04.640 --> 40:07.280
at the rate it was created.

40:08.480 --> 40:12.080
Well, I'll just grab a couple of
things there.

40:12.080 --> 40:15.120
First of all, the iPod basically
sucks

40:15.120 --> 40:16.560
for a lot of your problems

40:16.560 --> 40:18.000
because you can't fast forward

40:18.000 --> 40:20.400
and just jump ahead and jump
back.

40:20.400 --> 40:22.800
So there's some definite
interface issues.

40:22.800 --> 40:24.480
When I play songs in my podcast,

40:24.480 --> 40:26.400
I say, or not always say,

40:26.400 --> 40:28.480
but I should say three minutes
and 30 seconds

40:28.480 --> 40:29.600
if you don't want to hear it,

40:29.600 --> 40:30.320
just skip ahead.

40:30.320 --> 40:31.200
I shouldn't have to say that.

40:31.200 --> 40:31.920
It should be just a button

40:31.920 --> 40:33.520
that kind of does something like
that.

40:37.760 --> 40:38.720
You want to try it?

40:38.720 --> 40:39.760
You want to jump in here?

40:39.760 --> 40:42.160
Yeah, maybe this takes this
conversation

40:42.160 --> 40:43.600
in a little bit of a different
direction.

40:44.880 --> 40:45.760
My name is Cole Jolly.

40:45.760 --> 40:46.640
I work for IDC

40:47.520 --> 40:49.200
and I'm a product manager.

40:49.200 --> 40:51.840
So I listen to problems

40:51.840 --> 40:53.440
and I try to, like a yentai,

40:53.440 --> 40:55.200
try to match solutions to
problems.

40:55.200 --> 41:01.440
And the constituency of end
users

41:01.440 --> 41:03.440
that I listen to is a little bit
different.

41:03.440 --> 41:05.760
They're not necessarily
producers

41:05.760 --> 41:07.680
or broadcasters per se,

41:07.680 --> 41:10.320
but they're like analysts on
Wall Street

41:10.320 --> 41:12.080
and bankers and people

41:12.080 --> 41:13.520
that work for large corporations

41:13.520 --> 41:14.800
that manufacture technology.

41:15.680 --> 41:18.160
And they have their own
constituencies

41:18.160 --> 41:19.440
that they broadcast to.

41:20.160 --> 41:22.560
And to this question,

41:25.200 --> 41:25.920
how can I put this?

41:26.960 --> 41:29.280
So podcasting, I got this
immediately

41:29.280 --> 41:31.200
when I saw you talking about
this

41:31.200 --> 41:32.960
in your conversations with Dave

41:34.080 --> 41:35.200
and I listened to your show.

41:36.160 --> 41:38.560
It's the logical next step of
RSS for me,

41:38.560 --> 41:39.840
which I've been evangelizing

41:39.840 --> 41:41.360
into Wall Street now for two
years.

41:41.920 --> 41:43.920
And all of a sudden, they got it
this year.

41:44.640 --> 41:45.680
Before they didn't,

41:45.680 --> 41:47.680
they managed a lot of
information all day long.

41:48.640 --> 41:50.800
They need something faster than
real time.

41:51.760 --> 41:54.480
And to Steve Gilmore's point

41:54.480 --> 41:55.760
about metadata,

41:55.760 --> 41:56.720
that we're at this point

41:56.720 --> 41:58.480
where I need to be able to kind
of index

41:59.600 --> 42:02.800
what you say and to crawl it
quickly

42:02.800 --> 42:04.800
across all of these
conversations

42:04.800 --> 42:06.160
and zero in like Google

42:06.160 --> 42:08.400
to the point where I can find,

42:08.960 --> 42:11.360
you know, this pivotal
information

42:11.360 --> 42:13.280
that causes me to make a
decision,

42:13.280 --> 42:15.680
then I, as a, let's say I'm an
analyst,

42:15.680 --> 42:18.320
can turn around and broadcast,

42:18.320 --> 42:20.400
podcast my analysis,

42:20.400 --> 42:21.440
I just got off of a call

42:22.240 --> 42:23.920
with numbers being reported

42:23.920 --> 42:26.720
to the analysts that listens to
me

42:26.720 --> 42:27.920
and they make decisions,

42:27.920 --> 42:29.760
they make buy or sell decisions

42:29.760 --> 42:33.120
that affect pension funds and
economies.

42:33.920 --> 42:34.720
You just mentioned that,

42:34.720 --> 42:35.600
I just wanted to bring up

42:36.720 --> 42:37.600
a little bit less different.

42:37.600 --> 42:38.640
It's different from music,

42:38.640 --> 42:41.840
but it's kind of the same thing,

42:41.840 --> 42:43.440
which is all about this
relationship.

42:43.440 --> 42:45.440
I just wanted to bring up a
podcast

42:45.440 --> 42:46.960
that I bumped into the other day

42:46.960 --> 42:48.160
called Earnings Cast,

42:48.720 --> 42:50.720
which is literally...

42:50.720 --> 42:53.120
Today, welcome to the Audible
8th third quarter,

42:53.120 --> 42:54.720
2004 Home Conference.

42:55.600 --> 42:57.520
It's literally all the
conference calls

42:57.520 --> 42:58.400
of the quarters that,

42:59.840 --> 43:01.120
you know, where the analysts
call in

43:01.120 --> 43:04.240
and talk about the latest
earnings.

43:04.240 --> 43:05.920
All of those are now coming in

43:05.920 --> 43:06.720
through podcasts.

43:08.560 --> 43:09.280
I'm not doing it,

43:10.640 --> 43:12.640
but this is clearly an issue
that...

43:12.640 --> 43:13.600
Metadata?

43:14.320 --> 43:14.960
Oh, sorry.

43:16.640 --> 43:16.880
Okay.

43:17.600 --> 43:18.880
When people wave frantically,

43:18.880 --> 43:20.160
you just got to go to them, I
guess.

43:20.160 --> 43:20.720
That's it, right.

43:21.440 --> 43:22.800
You can always throw something
at me

43:22.800 --> 43:23.440
if I don't see you.

43:23.440 --> 43:23.920
That will help.

43:30.000 --> 43:30.960
Part of the reason I waved

43:30.960 --> 43:31.920
is I'm just so shocked

43:31.920 --> 43:33.120
because I'm doing earnings cast

43:33.120 --> 43:33.840
and you plugged it.

43:33.840 --> 43:37.280
But I do actually have something
to say,

43:39.600 --> 43:40.400
which is a little bit

43:41.760 --> 43:42.960
more philosophical

43:42.960 --> 43:44.240
about what's going on here.

43:45.360 --> 43:47.120
You know, I came home

43:47.120 --> 43:48.240
from traveling last week

43:48.240 --> 43:50.320
and my TV had been changed

43:50.320 --> 43:51.520
and suddenly there were like

43:51.520 --> 43:53.680
five channels of national public
TV,

43:53.680 --> 43:54.400
KQED.

43:54.960 --> 43:55.280
Why?

43:55.280 --> 43:56.800
Because it changed to digital

43:56.800 --> 43:58.400
and they've got more bandwidth.

43:58.400 --> 44:00.240
So they've got tons of content

44:00.240 --> 44:00.960
that they...

44:00.960 --> 44:01.600
On the analog,

44:01.600 --> 44:02.400
they could only get into...

44:02.400 --> 44:03.440
They only had one channel.

44:03.440 --> 44:04.320
Suddenly on digital,

44:04.320 --> 44:06.240
they could put five channels
there

44:06.240 --> 44:06.960
on this...

44:06.960 --> 44:09.520
And so there's now five KQEDs on
my TV.

44:10.160 --> 44:11.920
And I started thinking, you
know,

44:11.920 --> 44:13.200
podcasting basically means

44:13.200 --> 44:14.640
there's an unlimited number of
channels.

44:15.840 --> 44:18.640
And that's going to dawn on
people real quick

44:18.640 --> 44:20.720
because bandwidth suddenly
becomes meaningless.

44:20.720 --> 44:21.040
You can...

44:21.680 --> 44:22.880
Insofar as you want

44:22.880 --> 44:24.480
to say something, you can.

44:25.120 --> 44:26.160
With the earnings cast,

44:26.160 --> 44:29.440
you know, I was doing a job for
a company

44:29.440 --> 44:31.760
and I wanted them to listen to
Google's earnings call

44:31.760 --> 44:33.680
because I thought they'd learn
something from it.

44:33.680 --> 44:34.400
And they said,

44:34.400 --> 44:35.840
well, how am I going to get to
listen to it?

44:35.840 --> 44:36.880
So I threw up a website

44:36.880 --> 44:38.720
and put it on for them to
download.

44:38.720 --> 44:40.240
And then I thought, just a
minute,

44:40.960 --> 44:43.680
I could do this for a lot more
about these things.

44:43.680 --> 44:45.920
And I kind of did earnings cast
almost by accident.

44:46.480 --> 44:48.320
But I think the bottom line here
is

44:48.320 --> 44:50.480
there's an unlimited number of
subjects,

44:50.480 --> 44:51.680
content areas,

44:51.680 --> 44:53.760
and there's an unlimited number
of bandwidth.

44:53.760 --> 44:55.840
And now there's an unlimited
number of producers.

44:56.400 --> 44:58.160
So I'm not so much worried

44:58.160 --> 44:59.360
about having enough time in the
day

44:59.360 --> 45:00.160
to listen to stuff

45:00.160 --> 45:02.080
because I'll just listen to what
I'm interested in.

45:02.080 --> 45:04.160
I do need help figuring out
what's out there.

45:04.880 --> 45:06.000
And I think that's a big deal.

45:06.560 --> 45:08.160
But I think the world's going to
change

45:08.160 --> 45:09.040
really, really quickly

45:09.120 --> 45:11.360
and the whole meaning of
consuming

45:12.720 --> 45:14.320
all kinds of media is going to
change

45:14.320 --> 45:15.280
very, very quickly now.

45:15.920 --> 45:16.240
Right.

45:16.240 --> 45:17.120
Let's go down to the front here.

45:17.120 --> 45:18.400
He's been very patient.

45:18.400 --> 45:18.560
Great.

45:19.200 --> 45:19.520
Oh, yeah.

45:19.520 --> 45:19.760
Don't touch the mic.

45:19.760 --> 45:20.960
I'll touch that mic.

45:20.960 --> 45:21.200
Okay.

45:21.200 --> 45:21.360
Yeah.

45:21.360 --> 45:21.920
My name's Karen.

45:21.920 --> 45:22.720
I'm just a user.

45:23.360 --> 45:23.760
But I...

45:27.360 --> 45:28.640
Yeah, I mean, my comment was,

45:28.640 --> 45:29.680
you know, it was 52 minutes

45:29.680 --> 45:30.400
into this discussion

45:30.400 --> 45:32.400
before a non-famous person got
to speak.

45:32.960 --> 45:35.200
So if you're pseudo famous

45:36.080 --> 45:37.440
or anybody would recognize your
name

45:37.440 --> 45:37.760
in the room,

45:37.760 --> 45:39.760
it'd be great if you let a user
speak for a while.

45:39.760 --> 45:41.360
But I just want to say

45:41.360 --> 45:43.600
one of the cool things about
podcasting

45:43.600 --> 45:45.280
is now I started playing

45:45.280 --> 45:47.280
Grand Theft Auto San Andreas.

45:47.280 --> 45:48.640
And it has radio.

45:48.640 --> 45:49.760
Yeah, it's great.

45:49.760 --> 45:51.360
But the thing is you get tired
of the radio

45:51.360 --> 45:53.840
in San Andreas pretty quickly.

45:53.840 --> 45:55.120
So, you know, now I've started

45:55.120 --> 45:56.960
overlaying podcasting in.

45:56.960 --> 46:02.560
And so, and my wife is...

46:02.560 --> 46:04.400
My wife's a vegetarian.

46:04.400 --> 46:05.920
So, you know, I went to Adam's
Directory

46:05.920 --> 46:06.960
and I said, okay, well, you
know,

46:06.960 --> 46:07.840
she likes vegetarian stuff,

46:07.840 --> 46:09.680
so I'll start listening to vegan
radio.

46:09.680 --> 46:12.400
So now, so now I can play Grand
Theft Auto

46:12.400 --> 46:13.760
and like, you know, do drive-bys

46:13.760 --> 46:14.800
and shoot and stuff like that,

46:14.800 --> 46:16.320
as long as, you know,

46:16.320 --> 46:18.080
vegan talk is running in the
background.

46:22.160 --> 46:23.520
But it's, you know,

46:23.520 --> 46:24.560
so the thing is, you know,

46:24.560 --> 46:25.760
it's great that there's all
these people

46:25.760 --> 46:27.440
in this room who have five days
a week

46:27.440 --> 46:29.440
or seven days a week to do
podcasts.

46:29.440 --> 46:31.360
But, you know, I'm looking for a
subtext

46:31.360 --> 46:32.000
to my life.

46:32.000 --> 46:33.280
I'm looking for people to talk

46:34.000 --> 46:36.240
about things that can interact
with my life.

46:36.240 --> 46:38.240
So, I hope people don't, you
know,

46:38.240 --> 46:39.840
feel that they have to jump into
podcasts

46:39.840 --> 46:41.040
and they have to do it five days
a week.

46:41.040 --> 46:42.240
You know, what I'd love

46:42.240 --> 46:44.080
is to be able to put in a DVD

46:44.080 --> 46:45.920
and then put us,

46:45.920 --> 46:47.680
know that somebody watched the
DVD with me

46:47.680 --> 46:49.200
and then like had a bunch of
their friends

46:49.200 --> 46:50.720
just like chat about it

46:50.720 --> 46:52.400
as they were watching so I could
listen to it.

46:52.400 --> 46:53.520
So start thinking about how
you're

46:53.520 --> 46:56.480
going to plug yourself into
people's lives

46:56.480 --> 46:57.360
so that, you know,

46:57.360 --> 46:59.280
we can use this podcasting
medium

46:59.280 --> 47:01.040
to interact and provide a more
personal

47:01.040 --> 47:02.480
experience to things we share in
comments.

47:02.480 --> 47:04.160
That's great. Thank you. That's
a great comment.

47:07.120 --> 47:09.280
I'm afraid now to say who's
next,

47:09.280 --> 47:10.960
you know, is a non-famous people
here?

47:12.960 --> 47:14.080
Over here, don't mind.

47:15.920 --> 47:17.200
Hi, I'm Joseph Palmer

47:17.200 --> 47:19.600
and I have all the words of the
book

47:19.600 --> 47:21.600
of the Monty Python skits.

47:21.600 --> 47:23.920
So the answer to your question
about

47:24.800 --> 47:27.520
whether the content has to flow

47:27.520 --> 47:28.800
at the rate you're reading it

47:28.800 --> 47:30.480
or the content should be vocal,

47:30.480 --> 47:31.280
guess what?

47:31.280 --> 47:32.960
There are different kinds of
stories

47:32.960 --> 47:34.480
that can be told in different
ways.

47:35.040 --> 47:35.760
So if you read,

47:36.560 --> 47:37.680
is your wife a goer?

47:38.320 --> 47:39.120
Know what I mean?

47:39.120 --> 47:39.920
Know what I mean?

47:39.920 --> 47:40.720
That isn't funny.

47:41.280 --> 47:41.920
Know what I mean?

47:42.640 --> 47:42.880
Right?

47:42.880 --> 47:45.680
So audio is good for things
different than text.

47:46.400 --> 47:48.320
You can do things in audio with
music.

47:48.320 --> 47:49.360
You can do things in audio

47:49.360 --> 47:50.560
with the pacing,

47:50.560 --> 47:51.360
the timing

47:51.360 --> 47:52.880
that you can't do in the text.

47:53.520 --> 47:54.160
And that's,

47:54.160 --> 47:55.120
that's it.

47:55.120 --> 47:55.520
I'm done.

47:56.800 --> 47:57.840
And I'll just add to that.

47:57.840 --> 48:00.320
I think that we've been
conditioned by

48:00.880 --> 48:02.160
what media is,

48:02.160 --> 48:04.880
what broadcast radio is
certainly

48:04.880 --> 48:06.800
is to expect it to be a certain
way.

48:06.800 --> 48:08.320
And it's very rare that you,

48:08.320 --> 48:09.600
that you hear kind of burst out.

48:09.600 --> 48:11.520
We've forgotten what audio is
all about.

48:11.520 --> 48:12.240
Audio is beautiful.

48:12.240 --> 48:13.840
You can do so many things with
it.

48:13.840 --> 48:15.120
You can manipulate it

48:15.120 --> 48:16.640
in so many fantastic ways,

48:16.640 --> 48:19.040
particularly in the digital
realm.

48:19.040 --> 48:20.080
I think we have,

48:20.080 --> 48:21.520
we have a lot to relearn
actually.

48:22.880 --> 48:23.520
Yeah, oh man,

48:23.520 --> 48:24.640
we're never going to get to all
this.

48:25.920 --> 48:27.200
I'm Andy Abramson,

48:27.200 --> 48:28.560
co-host of the World Technology
Roundup

48:28.560 --> 48:29.280
on Ken Radio.

48:29.280 --> 48:30.800
We've been broadcasting on the
internet

48:30.800 --> 48:32.240
since 1994,

48:32.240 --> 48:34.080
186,000 listeners we've grown

48:34.080 --> 48:35.360
since 1998.

48:36.400 --> 48:38.320
We look at podcasting very
interestingly.

48:38.320 --> 48:39.440
I look at it as,

48:39.440 --> 48:41.120
as instead of mass media,

48:41.120 --> 48:42.160
as very personal media,

48:42.160 --> 48:43.120
very narrow casting,

48:43.120 --> 48:44.640
it's not a matter of

48:45.920 --> 48:46.960
how many people are listening,

48:46.960 --> 48:48.160
it's who's listening.

48:48.160 --> 48:49.360
And that's what really matters

48:49.360 --> 48:50.400
because whether you have to
write

48:50.400 --> 48:51.200
10 people,

48:51.200 --> 48:52.880
or the right 10,000 people,

48:52.880 --> 48:53.840
that's the first,

48:53.840 --> 48:54.880
most important thing

48:54.880 --> 48:55.600
about all this.

48:55.600 --> 48:56.400
Second,

48:56.400 --> 48:57.040
you have,

48:57.040 --> 48:57.840
as we talk about,

48:57.840 --> 48:58.720
we don't break the news,

48:58.720 --> 48:59.680
we fix it.

48:59.680 --> 49:02.160
I think what we're going to see
here

49:02.160 --> 49:03.200
is a lot of

49:04.160 --> 49:06.320
correction and accuracy

49:06.320 --> 49:08.160
that the general media does not
have.

49:09.040 --> 49:10.000
There really is no oversight.

49:10.000 --> 49:11.360
Plays into the web log.

49:11.360 --> 49:12.320
Plays into the web log

49:12.320 --> 49:14.480
and you have this feedback
mechanism

49:14.480 --> 49:16.000
which is instantaneous,

49:16.000 --> 49:17.280
or you have a feedback mechanism

49:17.280 --> 49:17.600
that says,

49:17.600 --> 49:18.800
I just listened to what you said

49:18.800 --> 49:19.760
three weeks ago

49:19.760 --> 49:21.040
and we see this with our

49:21.040 --> 49:22.000
regular listeners now

49:22.000 --> 49:23.920
who correct us or point out
things

49:23.920 --> 49:25.200
and we play this little game

49:25.200 --> 49:26.160
of I love blogs,

49:26.160 --> 49:27.280
can hate blogs

49:27.280 --> 49:29.280
and our listeners are the same
way.

49:29.280 --> 49:30.000
Some of them like it,

49:30.000 --> 49:31.120
some of them don't.

49:31.120 --> 49:32.880
But you're very accountable

49:32.880 --> 49:34.320
and your audience becomes

49:34.320 --> 49:34.960
your friends,

49:34.960 --> 49:35.520
your family,

49:35.520 --> 49:36.720
your community.

49:36.720 --> 49:37.360
And again,

49:37.360 --> 49:39.440
whether it's 10 or 10,000

49:39.440 --> 49:40.720
or 10 million,

49:40.720 --> 49:41.440
we're in an era of

49:41.440 --> 49:43.120
one-to-one communication.

49:43.120 --> 49:44.960
We're in an era of where
accuracy,

49:46.880 --> 49:48.000
focus and targeting

49:48.000 --> 49:49.920
is all being made apparent

49:49.920 --> 49:51.920
by technologies like podcasting

49:51.920 --> 49:53.520
and being powered by streaming.

49:53.520 --> 49:54.000
So it doesn't matter

49:54.000 --> 49:54.960
whether you listen live,

49:54.960 --> 49:56.320
you listen on download,

49:56.320 --> 49:57.360
you listen streaming.

49:57.360 --> 49:58.640
You're hearing somebody's
thoughts

49:58.640 --> 49:59.760
and you have the ability then

49:59.760 --> 50:01.280
to shape your opinions

50:01.280 --> 50:01.920
and feedback.

50:01.920 --> 50:02.080
So.

50:02.080 --> 50:02.640
Right.

50:02.640 --> 50:03.840
I totally agree.

50:03.840 --> 50:04.720
Just one thing I want to say

50:04.720 --> 50:05.600
which also comes into the

50:05.600 --> 50:07.280
how do we consume all this
information

50:08.080 --> 50:10.080
if you're thinking about
podcasting.

50:10.720 --> 50:11.600
We're already setting

50:11.600 --> 50:12.880
a whole bunch of rules

50:12.880 --> 50:14.640
that we shouldn't be setting, I
feel.

50:14.640 --> 50:16.320
You don't have to create a show.

50:16.320 --> 50:17.520
It doesn't have to be

50:17.520 --> 50:18.720
an opening sequence.

50:19.280 --> 50:20.560
Here's what's coming up.

50:20.560 --> 50:21.680
It doesn't have to be

50:21.680 --> 50:23.120
like what Dave is doing

50:23.120 --> 50:25.920
or Donna Drew or Michael.

50:26.720 --> 50:27.920
I would love to,

50:27.920 --> 50:28.720
like earnings cast,

50:28.720 --> 50:30.320
that to me was a real
eye-opener.

50:30.320 --> 50:33.360
I'm waiting for a Wall Street
analyst

50:33.360 --> 50:36.000
to record a minute every morning

50:36.000 --> 50:38.560
of here's the stock picks for
today.

50:38.560 --> 50:39.920
I would love to have someone

50:40.560 --> 50:41.920
do a weather report

50:41.920 --> 50:43.840
even though Pete Perdil did it
for me once

50:43.840 --> 50:46.560
of my hometown.

50:47.120 --> 50:48.000
So that in the morning

50:48.000 --> 50:49.040
when I just go through

50:49.040 --> 50:50.080
all the new podcasts,

50:50.080 --> 50:51.760
eventually I'll get exactly

50:51.760 --> 50:52.240
what I want

50:52.240 --> 50:53.520
and maybe even in the order I
want it.

50:53.520 --> 50:55.040
No, and here's a weather report.

50:55.040 --> 50:57.440
So if you're thinking about

50:57.440 --> 50:58.320
doing podcasting,

50:58.320 --> 50:59.200
let's not get trapped

50:59.200 --> 51:00.400
into it. It has to be a show.

51:01.520 --> 51:03.200
But I think what we're learning
here

51:03.200 --> 51:05.280
is that what really makes it

51:05.280 --> 51:06.400
fun for everybody

51:06.400 --> 51:07.600
is exactly that.

51:07.600 --> 51:09.360
It sounds like you're having
fun.

51:09.360 --> 51:10.880
Like you're just

51:10.880 --> 51:12.640
the way you might write on your
weblog.

51:12.640 --> 51:14.080
I think that's a really
important

51:15.280 --> 51:16.080
important part of what we're
doing.

51:16.080 --> 51:17.200
Is anyone at this point

51:17.200 --> 51:18.400
who does not understand

51:18.400 --> 51:19.280
what we're talking about

51:19.280 --> 51:19.680
and saying,

51:19.680 --> 51:20.960
help, I'm lost.

51:20.960 --> 51:21.920
I don't get it.

51:21.920 --> 51:23.520
What the fuck is going on?

51:23.520 --> 51:24.880
Sir, please.

51:24.880 --> 51:25.600
Take the mic to him.

51:27.600 --> 51:28.880
I knew I had to give me the
microphone.

51:30.160 --> 51:30.480
Sorry.

51:31.200 --> 51:32.080
One thing I think is kind of

51:32.080 --> 51:33.920
interesting is in the contrast
here

51:33.920 --> 51:34.880
is that if you go on

51:34.880 --> 51:35.600
and listen to the people

51:35.600 --> 51:37.200
that basically grew up with the
technology,

51:37.200 --> 51:38.000
still in the language

51:38.000 --> 51:40.560
formation phase of their
existence,

51:40.560 --> 51:41.360
they're actually going

51:41.360 --> 51:42.560
and relate to the technology

51:42.560 --> 51:43.760
a lot differently

51:43.760 --> 51:44.720
than the old fogies,

51:44.720 --> 51:45.120
in fact,

51:45.120 --> 51:46.320
that a lot have been speaking.

51:46.320 --> 51:46.880
In particular,

51:46.880 --> 51:47.600
if you go on and listen

51:47.600 --> 51:48.640
to the guy that winds up

51:48.640 --> 51:50.320
overlaying vegan talk radio

51:50.320 --> 51:50.880
or whatever it is

51:50.880 --> 51:52.800
over a grand theft auto thing,

51:52.800 --> 51:53.760
that strikes me.

51:53.760 --> 51:55.520
Maybe I'm off here

51:55.520 --> 51:57.200
as a fundamentally different
experience

51:57.200 --> 51:57.840
than going on

51:57.840 --> 51:59.280
and podcasting out

52:00.480 --> 52:02.000
financial reports

52:02.000 --> 52:03.200
every morning on stuff.

52:03.200 --> 52:04.080
One thing I'd be interested

52:04.080 --> 52:04.960
in getting feedback from,

52:04.960 --> 52:05.360
in fact,

52:05.360 --> 52:06.240
is guys,

52:06.240 --> 52:07.120
I guess the requirement

52:07.120 --> 52:08.320
is that they're under 25

52:08.320 --> 52:09.360
and have been using a computer

52:09.360 --> 52:10.640
for at least 15 years.

52:10.640 --> 52:11.360
How do they go on

52:11.360 --> 52:12.720
and relate to the media?

52:12.720 --> 52:13.360
How do they go on

52:13.360 --> 52:14.400
and see this thing being used

52:14.400 --> 52:15.200
and how does it integrate

52:15.200 --> 52:16.160
with their life day to day?

52:16.160 --> 52:16.640
That's kind of,

52:16.640 --> 52:17.600
I guess, an open question.

52:17.600 --> 52:18.880
Does anyone want to tackle that?

52:19.840 --> 52:24.240
I'm not going to touch it then.

52:28.960 --> 52:29.440
Just,

52:29.440 --> 52:31.360
well, Dave just gave me a note
of paper.

52:31.360 --> 52:32.240
I'm going to get to that in a
second.

52:32.240 --> 52:33.520
Let's just grab one more here.

52:34.320 --> 52:36.080
So there's been a lot of talk
here

52:36.080 --> 52:37.920
about the need for annotation,

52:37.920 --> 52:41.600
the need for being able to find
the good stuff.

52:41.600 --> 52:43.360
And so I think it's maybe
important

52:43.360 --> 52:46.320
to consider from a user
perspective

52:46.320 --> 52:48.320
what a user will expect

52:48.400 --> 52:50.640
to use all of these annotations.

52:50.640 --> 52:52.080
How will they consume them?

52:52.080 --> 52:53.120
And so one of the things

52:53.120 --> 52:54.400
I've been thinking about,

52:54.400 --> 52:55.440
by the way, I'm Brendan Wilson,

52:55.440 --> 52:56.080
forgot about that,

52:57.920 --> 53:00.720
is if you consider blogging

53:00.720 --> 53:01.520
as sort of like

53:02.960 --> 53:06.960
an uncensored letters to the
editor almost,

53:06.960 --> 53:07.280
right?

53:07.280 --> 53:08.320
Someone puts something up

53:08.320 --> 53:10.160
and everyone can respond to it.

53:10.160 --> 53:12.720
You can consider that podcasting

53:12.720 --> 53:13.760
with annotations

53:13.760 --> 53:16.320
becomes like the radio call-in
show,

53:16.320 --> 53:17.760
Howard Stern on PCP.

53:18.400 --> 53:21.760
So I think it'd be really
interesting

53:21.760 --> 53:23.280
despite the limitations of,

53:23.280 --> 53:24.960
say, the iPod and what it can
do,

53:25.760 --> 53:27.040
I think there's a possibility

53:27.040 --> 53:28.160
for more intelligence

53:28.160 --> 53:30.560
in the software on the client
side

53:30.560 --> 53:31.920
to sort of pull down,

53:31.920 --> 53:33.680
I pull down Adam's show,

53:33.680 --> 53:34.960
someone pulls and says,

53:34.960 --> 53:36.640
hey, this section's quite
interesting.

53:36.640 --> 53:37.760
A number of other people

53:37.760 --> 53:39.760
add that interesting
information.

53:39.760 --> 53:41.520
And then my iPod or software

53:41.520 --> 53:42.480
remixes it

53:42.480 --> 53:45.120
so I can either listen to the
whole show,

53:45.120 --> 53:46.480
listen to the greatest hits

53:46.480 --> 53:48.160
that people said were
interesting,

53:48.160 --> 53:49.440
or sort of listen to it

53:49.440 --> 53:50.960
with the interjections

53:50.960 --> 53:52.720
within Adam's show.

53:52.720 --> 53:53.520
You know, he says this

53:53.520 --> 53:56.160
and then oh, so-and-so thinks
this after it.

53:56.880 --> 53:58.480
That's what I would expect as a
user

53:58.480 --> 53:59.440
to be able to use this

53:59.440 --> 54:01.600
in a completely away from my
computer,

54:01.600 --> 54:02.720
sitting on my iPod,

54:03.360 --> 54:04.880
but limiting the amount of time

54:04.880 --> 54:05.840
I'm spending on this.

54:08.240 --> 54:09.920
Maybe you're a shill that Dave
put there,

54:09.920 --> 54:11.120
but the note that Dave gave me

54:11.120 --> 54:12.880
was how could the iPod work
better?

54:13.440 --> 54:16.480
Open standard remixes allow a
lot of-

54:16.480 --> 54:17.040
Oh!

54:17.040 --> 54:17.600
Oh!

54:17.600 --> 54:17.840
Oh!

54:17.840 --> 54:18.240
Oh!

54:18.240 --> 54:18.480
Oh!

54:18.480 --> 54:18.640
Oh!

54:18.640 --> 54:19.040
Oh!

54:19.040 --> 54:19.280
Oh!

54:19.280 --> 54:19.600
Oh!

54:19.600 --> 54:20.080
Oh!

54:20.080 --> 54:20.400
Oh!

54:20.400 --> 54:20.640
Oh!

54:20.640 --> 54:20.880
Oh!

54:20.880 --> 54:21.200
Oh!

54:21.200 --> 54:21.440
Oh!

54:21.440 --> 54:21.680
Oh!

54:21.680 --> 54:22.000
Oh!

54:22.000 --> 54:22.240
Oh!

54:22.240 --> 54:22.800
Oh!

54:22.800 --> 54:23.040
Oh!

54:23.040 --> 54:24.240
You want to say anything else

54:24.240 --> 54:24.880
with the microphone?

54:26.880 --> 54:27.680
I'm sorry.

54:28.400 --> 54:29.920
Yeah, making it an open standard

54:29.920 --> 54:30.640
allow people to write

54:30.640 --> 54:31.600
third-party applications

54:31.600 --> 54:36.240
that'll run on the iPod
hardware.

54:36.240 --> 54:37.280
I mean, I haven't bought it

54:37.280 --> 54:38.240
because I don't want to get

54:38.240 --> 54:40.080
locked into a fixed standard.

54:40.080 --> 54:41.040
I mean, last week,

54:41.040 --> 54:42.080
you know, Apple just chose

54:42.160 --> 54:42.800
to shut it off,

54:42.800 --> 54:44.000
shut off some functionality.

54:44.000 --> 54:44.960
I'm not going to buy into that.

54:45.760 --> 54:46.640
Does anyone want to talk

54:46.640 --> 54:48.560
about who is not using an iPod

54:48.560 --> 54:49.600
but another MP3 player

54:49.600 --> 54:51.040
they think is better than an
iPod?

54:51.040 --> 54:51.920
I'd love to hear that

54:51.920 --> 54:52.800
because I-

54:52.800 --> 54:53.120
Go ahead.

54:54.080 --> 54:55.200
Stacey Kramer from

54:55.200 --> 54:56.400
online journalism review

54:56.400 --> 54:58.000
and paid content, etc.

54:58.880 --> 55:00.480
And I'm not actually using-

55:00.480 --> 55:01.920
I mean, I have access

55:01.920 --> 55:02.880
to a lot of different ways

55:02.880 --> 55:03.280
to do this

55:03.280 --> 55:04.960
and I've started trying to,

55:04.960 --> 55:06.720
but I'm concerned

55:06.720 --> 55:08.240
about the fixation on iPod

55:09.280 --> 55:10.480
and a little bit concerned

55:10.480 --> 55:11.760
about the podcasting name

55:11.760 --> 55:12.480
in that respect

55:12.480 --> 55:13.600
because it leads people

55:13.600 --> 55:14.320
to the idea

55:15.520 --> 55:16.560
that you can only do this

55:16.560 --> 55:17.680
effectively with an iPod.

55:17.680 --> 55:18.320
And guess what?

55:18.320 --> 55:19.200
When you start to try

55:19.200 --> 55:19.680
and do it

55:19.680 --> 55:20.720
with all the other different

55:20.720 --> 55:21.600
things you have access to

55:21.600 --> 55:22.880
to play MP3s,

55:22.880 --> 55:23.840
it's not easy.

55:25.120 --> 55:26.480
I started just downloading

55:26.480 --> 55:27.520
things piece by piece

55:27.520 --> 55:28.640
from IT conversations

55:28.640 --> 55:29.600
to take here

55:29.600 --> 55:30.800
because I couldn't figure out

55:30.800 --> 55:31.760
how to make it all work.

55:32.320 --> 55:32.960
I'm glad you're here

55:32.960 --> 55:34.080
and I'm glad you're saying this

55:34.080 --> 55:37.360
because just like I said

55:37.360 --> 55:39.280
my original iPod program

55:39.280 --> 55:39.760
sucked,

55:40.720 --> 55:42.000
in general I think

55:42.000 --> 55:42.560
most of the people

55:42.560 --> 55:43.760
who are working on these
programs

55:43.760 --> 55:44.400
will think that

55:44.400 --> 55:45.600
there's a lot of work to be done

55:45.600 --> 55:46.400
and hearing that

55:47.120 --> 55:47.520
from you

55:48.400 --> 55:48.800
is like,

55:49.520 --> 55:50.480
here's a great opportunity.

55:50.480 --> 55:51.360
We have to figure out

55:51.360 --> 55:52.400
how to make that better for you

55:52.400 --> 55:53.600
so that it does work.

55:53.600 --> 55:54.480
The name thing though,

55:55.280 --> 55:56.400
it's unchangeable.

55:56.400 --> 55:57.040
Forget about it.

55:57.040 --> 55:57.520
It's out there.

55:57.520 --> 55:58.880
We'll never change that.

55:58.880 --> 55:59.600
I realize that.

55:59.600 --> 56:00.960
I think that requires

56:00.960 --> 56:02.080
a little better education

56:02.080 --> 56:02.880
from people

56:02.880 --> 56:03.600
and a little better sense

56:03.600 --> 56:04.720
of removing the concept

56:04.720 --> 56:05.680
of podcasting

56:05.680 --> 56:07.200
from the hardware

56:07.200 --> 56:08.400
of iPod

56:08.400 --> 56:09.360
to a lot of people.

56:09.440 --> 56:10.560
The other thing I would just
point out

56:10.560 --> 56:11.760
is not everybody is listening

56:11.760 --> 56:13.040
to this on portable players

56:14.240 --> 56:16.480
or on little gadgets.

56:16.480 --> 56:17.280
I mean, I'm sitting here.

56:17.280 --> 56:18.320
I've got a pocket PC.

56:18.320 --> 56:19.040
I've got a laptop

56:19.040 --> 56:20.640
I was traveling with yesterday.

56:20.640 --> 56:21.760
I could listen to this

56:21.760 --> 56:22.720
on any of these.

56:23.360 --> 56:25.040
And so I think that's,

56:25.040 --> 56:27.360
my phone has MP3 capability.

56:27.920 --> 56:29.920
So I would like to just
encourage

56:29.920 --> 56:32.400
us to keep in mind

56:32.400 --> 56:34.000
the variance of platforms

56:34.000 --> 56:34.960
that people are using

56:34.960 --> 56:35.920
and not only think of this

56:35.920 --> 56:37.440
as a tiny mobile concept.

56:38.000 --> 56:39.520
And excellent.

56:39.520 --> 56:41.120
Because I totally agree with
you.

56:41.120 --> 56:42.560
And there are things

56:42.560 --> 56:43.520
Steve Gilmore came up

56:43.520 --> 56:45.760
with a number of 650 million

56:45.760 --> 56:46.800
new MP3 players

56:46.800 --> 56:48.000
that are going to come into the
market

56:48.000 --> 56:49.200
in cell phones.

56:49.200 --> 56:50.080
And what's really neat

56:50.080 --> 56:51.680
about cell phones is,

56:51.680 --> 56:52.720
oh, yeah, they're connected.

56:53.600 --> 56:54.480
And they can be connected

56:54.480 --> 56:55.360
through multiple ways.

56:55.360 --> 56:56.720
I think you're absolutely right.

56:56.720 --> 56:58.080
And we need to work on that.

56:58.080 --> 56:59.280
So, you know,

56:59.280 --> 57:00.480
this is where the developers

57:00.480 --> 57:02.640
should start to raise their
hands.

57:04.560 --> 57:05.680
That one looks like a developer.

57:05.680 --> 57:06.480
Could you please...

57:11.200 --> 57:12.720
Hi, my name is Mike Levin,

57:12.720 --> 57:13.600
MikeLevin.net.

57:13.600 --> 57:14.480
And I have a podcast

57:14.480 --> 57:15.840
called Podcast from the Swamp.

57:17.600 --> 57:18.160
One thing...

57:19.040 --> 57:19.600
Yeah, thanks.

57:20.320 --> 57:22.080
One thing that we can do,

57:23.760 --> 57:25.600
everyone who creates a podcast,

57:26.240 --> 57:28.000
even if you're not a developer,

57:28.000 --> 57:31.200
you have to create the RSS XML
feed.

57:31.760 --> 57:34.080
And you can put keywords in
there.

57:34.080 --> 57:35.520
And that's how search engines
work.

57:35.680 --> 57:39.520
So, if you want your podcast to
be indexed...

57:43.520 --> 57:44.880
You just put it like that, yeah.

57:45.760 --> 57:47.280
If you want your podcast to be
indexed

57:47.280 --> 57:48.800
and picked up by search engines,

57:48.800 --> 57:49.680
you could put,

57:49.680 --> 57:51.600
I guess you could call it a pod
roll

57:51.600 --> 57:52.960
or something like that in there.

57:52.960 --> 57:55.040
You can name the topics

57:55.040 --> 57:56.160
that you cover.

57:56.720 --> 57:59.280
And then the search engines

57:59.280 --> 58:00.000
will pick it up.

58:02.480 --> 58:04.400
As far as the iPod

58:04.560 --> 58:07.520
and podcast moniker,

58:08.560 --> 58:10.000
I guess after a while,

58:10.000 --> 58:12.640
we started calling photocopies
Xeroxes.

58:13.280 --> 58:14.960
And, you know, whatever.

58:14.960 --> 58:15.920
It's a catchy word.

58:16.640 --> 58:17.600
I think the important thing

58:17.600 --> 58:18.640
is that people understand

58:18.640 --> 58:19.840
what the word means.

58:19.840 --> 58:21.600
It's unfortunate that it's a
brand name,

58:22.160 --> 58:24.720
but that's just how it goes.

58:26.320 --> 58:28.320
John Dvorak wrote an article

58:28.880 --> 58:30.960
kind of putting down a
podcasting.

58:31.760 --> 58:32.560
Oh, no, no, no, no.

58:32.560 --> 58:33.680
Hold on, hold on, hold on.

58:34.160 --> 58:35.440
I want to say publicly,

58:35.440 --> 58:36.880
I agree with John Dvorak.

58:37.600 --> 58:41.040
It's not there yet for everyone.

58:41.040 --> 58:42.240
It is not easy.

58:42.240 --> 58:43.120
It doesn't work.

58:43.120 --> 58:43.840
Shit breaks.

58:43.840 --> 58:44.960
You're falling off the edge.

58:46.240 --> 58:47.280
We'll kick his ass later

58:47.280 --> 58:48.640
when we have it all fixed.

58:48.640 --> 58:49.360
Don't get me wrong.

58:50.080 --> 58:51.040
But I think he's right

58:51.040 --> 58:51.840
at this moment in time.

58:51.840 --> 58:52.400
Sorry.

58:52.400 --> 58:53.120
Oh, well, that's okay.

58:53.120 --> 58:53.920
Well, I mean,

58:53.920 --> 58:54.800
you know, he pointed out

58:54.800 --> 58:56.480
a couple of things about
podcasting

58:56.480 --> 58:58.000
that, you know, some podcasts...

58:58.640 --> 58:59.760
Well, some podcasters

58:59.760 --> 59:00.960
look like they came from

59:00.960 --> 59:02.160
High Times Magazine.

59:04.640 --> 59:06.080
Where's the lighter click,
everybody?

59:09.200 --> 59:10.560
Yeah, I wasn't sure

59:10.560 --> 59:11.440
where he was coming from

59:11.440 --> 59:12.080
with that one.

59:12.080 --> 59:15.520
And you know that some podcasts

59:15.520 --> 59:17.360
may not be that interesting?

59:17.360 --> 59:19.280
Well, I don't know about that
either.

59:19.280 --> 59:20.560
Anyway, I wrote a response

59:21.600 --> 59:23.920
to his article in PC World.

59:25.680 --> 59:31.600
But anyway, the idea of
podrolling

59:31.600 --> 59:32.880
and adding keywords

59:32.880 --> 59:35.280
to your RSS.XML feed,

59:35.280 --> 59:37.120
I think would really help

59:37.120 --> 59:38.720
add relevance to the podcast

59:38.720 --> 59:40.800
because it's hard to search

59:40.800 --> 59:42.160
and audio feed.

59:42.160 --> 59:42.960
I don't think we have

59:42.960 --> 59:44.080
very good technology

59:44.080 --> 59:45.440
to do that kind of thing yet.

59:46.480 --> 59:47.680
But index, you know,

59:47.680 --> 59:49.600
keywords would help us approach
that.

59:50.560 --> 59:52.480
I'm just going to take this

59:52.480 --> 59:53.440
discussion for a second

59:53.440 --> 59:54.640
because everyone's talking about

59:54.640 --> 59:56.960
now we're getting into metadata

59:56.960 --> 59:57.680
and all these words

59:57.680 --> 59:58.640
that maybe not everybody

59:58.640 --> 59:59.200
understands.

59:59.200 --> 01:00:00.400
I just want to show something

01:00:00.400 --> 01:00:01.360
that I'm working on,

01:00:01.440 --> 01:00:02.480
which is basically the next

01:00:02.480 --> 01:00:03.360
crappy program

01:00:03.360 --> 01:00:04.240
that I'm going to throw out
there,

01:00:04.240 --> 01:00:04.560
I hope.

01:00:06.560 --> 01:00:07.760
It doesn't work at all right
now,

01:00:07.760 --> 01:00:08.560
but at least you can kind of

01:00:08.560 --> 01:00:10.320
get the idea as to what I'm
doing.

01:00:11.760 --> 01:00:14.160
The iPod directory, which,

01:00:14.160 --> 01:00:14.800
yeah, here it is,

01:00:16.640 --> 01:00:19.120
which I'm trying to help
everyone,

01:00:19.120 --> 01:00:19.840
you know, we're all working

01:00:19.840 --> 01:00:22.000
together to build this out,

01:00:22.000 --> 01:00:24.400
is based upon OPML.

01:00:25.200 --> 01:00:26.400
And on the other side

01:00:26.400 --> 01:00:27.120
of the screen here,

01:00:27.120 --> 01:00:29.040
you can see my Outliner,

01:00:29.040 --> 01:00:30.240
which is an Outliner

01:00:30.240 --> 01:00:31.200
in Radio User Land.

01:00:32.080 --> 01:00:33.440
And that is literally

01:00:33.440 --> 01:00:34.880
the same as that.

01:00:36.720 --> 01:00:37.760
So if you go to,

01:00:37.760 --> 01:00:38.400
well, what's new

01:00:38.400 --> 01:00:39.360
is already open here.

01:00:40.000 --> 01:00:40.720
This is interesting

01:00:40.720 --> 01:00:41.440
doing it this way.

01:00:42.560 --> 01:00:43.200
And if you click on

01:00:43.200 --> 01:00:44.000
what's new here,

01:00:45.760 --> 01:00:47.120
and you'll see the
representation

01:00:47.920 --> 01:00:49.360
of exactly the same things.

01:00:49.920 --> 01:00:52.000
Now, the point

01:00:52.000 --> 01:00:53.200
where it gets cool

01:00:53.200 --> 01:00:53.920
is that I don't own

01:00:53.920 --> 01:00:54.720
this directory.

01:00:55.840 --> 01:00:56.800
It's not, you know,

01:00:56.800 --> 01:00:58.400
I own the top level

01:00:58.400 --> 01:00:59.040
that I showed you,

01:00:59.040 --> 01:00:59.920
which is there,

01:01:00.000 --> 01:01:01.040
because I basically put

01:01:01.040 --> 01:01:02.720
some categories in place,

01:01:02.720 --> 01:01:04.800
but I'm not maintaining

01:01:04.800 --> 01:01:05.840
this entire thing.

01:01:05.840 --> 01:01:06.800
In fact, I'm maintaining

01:01:06.800 --> 01:01:07.680
very, very little

01:01:07.680 --> 01:01:08.880
of it at this point

01:01:08.880 --> 01:01:10.000
because anyone

01:01:10.000 --> 01:01:11.120
who can create

01:01:11.120 --> 01:01:12.560
an OPML document

01:01:12.560 --> 01:01:14.160
and just think HTML,

01:01:14.160 --> 01:01:14.480
you know,

01:01:14.480 --> 01:01:15.840
there are programs

01:01:15.840 --> 01:01:16.400
that will do this,

01:01:16.400 --> 01:01:17.040
there are editors,

01:01:17.040 --> 01:01:18.080
it's not very complicated.

01:01:18.080 --> 01:01:18.960
You don't have to know

01:01:18.960 --> 01:01:19.680
a hell of a lot

01:01:19.680 --> 01:01:21.440
except how to just basically

01:01:21.440 --> 01:01:23.360
type and paste in links.

01:01:24.400 --> 01:01:25.040
They can become

01:01:25.040 --> 01:01:26.080
a part of this directory.

01:01:26.080 --> 01:01:28.000
So just to show you,

01:01:30.880 --> 01:01:31.680
sorry, under,

01:01:33.360 --> 01:01:33.920
where am I?

01:01:35.120 --> 01:01:35.840
I want to go back

01:01:36.880 --> 01:01:37.760
to categories.

01:01:40.400 --> 01:01:41.440
Is this working?

01:01:44.400 --> 01:01:44.800
Okay.

01:01:44.800 --> 01:01:45.520
Well, that's coming up

01:01:45.520 --> 01:01:46.560
and I'll show you the

01:01:46.560 --> 01:01:47.600
categories here.

01:01:49.760 --> 01:01:51.280
So anything that

01:01:51.280 --> 01:01:52.320
that has this little arrow

01:01:52.320 --> 01:01:53.360
is basically a link

01:01:53.360 --> 01:01:55.040
to someone else's

01:01:55.040 --> 01:01:55.520
maintain,

01:01:55.520 --> 01:01:56.720
someone else's OPML.

01:01:57.440 --> 01:01:58.480
So if I were to open

01:01:58.480 --> 01:01:59.600
a health and fitness

01:01:59.920 --> 01:02:01.120
I'm maintaining that

01:02:01.120 --> 01:02:02.400
and here's a link to

01:02:03.840 --> 01:02:05.600
to the RSS feed

01:02:05.600 --> 01:02:06.640
for that particular show.

01:02:07.280 --> 01:02:08.720
But if we look at the music node

01:02:10.560 --> 01:02:11.360
and if I double click

01:02:11.360 --> 01:02:12.320
you see that it's a link

01:02:12.320 --> 01:02:13.120
so actually

01:02:13.120 --> 01:02:14.400
just to show you that

01:02:18.880 --> 01:02:19.520
get info

01:02:20.240 --> 01:02:22.240
it's going to a guy in Holland,

01:02:22.240 --> 01:02:23.520
Hans von Rand

01:02:23.520 --> 01:02:25.120
and that's his OPML file.

01:02:26.560 --> 01:02:27.200
Now in my

01:02:28.160 --> 01:02:29.920
Outliner when I click that

01:02:29.920 --> 01:02:30.960
it's basically bringing that

01:02:30.960 --> 01:02:31.920
OPML file

01:02:32.480 --> 01:02:33.760
and everything associated

01:02:33.760 --> 01:02:34.000
with it

01:02:34.000 --> 01:02:35.040
and it's going to expand it.

01:02:35.040 --> 01:02:36.240
Hope, oh no, I'm sorry

01:02:36.240 --> 01:02:37.600
I'm no longer connected

01:02:37.600 --> 01:02:38.320
it's not going to do that.

01:02:39.600 --> 01:02:40.480
But the way it looks

01:02:41.280 --> 01:02:41.920
over on the

01:02:43.120 --> 01:02:44.400
on the iPod directory

01:02:44.400 --> 01:02:45.040
under music.

01:02:48.880 --> 01:02:49.600
Oops, that was

01:02:49.600 --> 01:02:50.400
that wasn't that was

01:02:51.520 --> 01:02:52.400
Yeah, no problem Michael.

01:02:54.720 --> 01:02:55.760
There we go music.

01:02:55.760 --> 01:02:56.320
Now you see

01:02:57.760 --> 01:02:58.480
immediately a whole bunch

01:02:58.480 --> 01:02:59.440
of subcategories

01:02:59.440 --> 01:03:00.960
which aren't necessarily

01:03:00.960 --> 01:03:02.160
maintained by him.

01:03:02.160 --> 01:03:03.120
We go into general

01:03:03.680 --> 01:03:04.640
you'll see that

01:03:04.640 --> 01:03:05.600
because he's

01:03:05.600 --> 01:03:06.960
he has an OPML file

01:03:06.960 --> 01:03:07.920
and there's all kinds of

01:03:07.920 --> 01:03:09.520
let's just call it metadata

01:03:09.520 --> 01:03:11.200
rolling through this OPML file.

01:03:12.480 --> 01:03:13.600
Stuff happens automatically

01:03:13.600 --> 01:03:14.720
like the suggest a link

01:03:14.720 --> 01:03:15.840
is going to go to him

01:03:15.840 --> 01:03:16.480
and not to me.

01:03:17.920 --> 01:03:18.960
I'm just going to finish

01:03:18.960 --> 01:03:19.680
this one thought

01:03:19.680 --> 01:03:20.400
because now I'm

01:03:21.200 --> 01:03:22.160
when I started

01:03:22.160 --> 01:03:23.040
to understand this

01:03:23.040 --> 01:03:23.760
and the power

01:03:24.560 --> 01:03:25.920
of having

01:03:25.920 --> 01:03:27.040
this completely distributed

01:03:27.120 --> 01:03:28.320
that anyone can maintain

01:03:28.320 --> 01:03:28.960
a node and it's

01:03:28.960 --> 01:03:30.160
and the amount of

01:03:30.960 --> 01:03:31.920
nodes and feeds

01:03:31.920 --> 01:03:32.640
that are being added

01:03:32.640 --> 01:03:34.080
as added is just astronomical.

01:03:34.080 --> 01:03:34.960
Sometimes it's

01:03:34.960 --> 01:03:36.080
it's 20 in a day

01:03:36.080 --> 01:03:36.800
or 30 in a day.

01:03:36.800 --> 01:03:37.200
It's really

01:03:37.200 --> 01:03:37.840
it's really growing

01:03:37.840 --> 01:03:38.320
quite quickly

01:03:38.320 --> 01:03:38.880
and it's just kind of

01:03:38.880 --> 01:03:40.080
all flowing up to the

01:03:40.080 --> 01:03:41.280
even to the what's new portion.

01:03:42.560 --> 01:03:43.840
Yeah, it made sense for me

01:03:43.840 --> 01:03:44.640
to start to figure out

01:03:44.640 --> 01:03:45.280
what else we could do

01:03:45.280 --> 01:03:46.480
with OPML

01:03:46.480 --> 01:03:47.440
and I started doing

01:03:48.160 --> 01:03:48.720
kind of a

01:03:49.840 --> 01:03:50.960
a production console

01:03:52.240 --> 01:03:52.960
and this is actually

01:03:52.960 --> 01:03:54.000
how I how I prepped

01:03:54.000 --> 01:03:54.880
for my podcast.

01:03:55.520 --> 01:03:57.520
This is nothing more

01:03:57.520 --> 01:03:58.720
than than a simple

01:03:58.720 --> 01:03:59.200
outliner

01:04:00.720 --> 01:04:01.520
and under

01:04:01.520 --> 01:04:02.160
each node

01:04:02.160 --> 01:04:02.720
you know

01:04:02.720 --> 01:04:03.200
I can

01:04:03.200 --> 01:04:04.160
I usually expand this

01:04:04.160 --> 01:04:04.800
by using the

01:04:04.800 --> 01:04:05.360
apple key

01:04:06.640 --> 01:04:07.200
comma

01:04:07.200 --> 01:04:08.240
because that's easier than

01:04:08.240 --> 01:04:08.800
you know I need to

01:04:08.800 --> 01:04:09.600
keep my hands on the

01:04:09.600 --> 01:04:10.720
computer for starting

01:04:10.720 --> 01:04:11.440
music and stuff.

01:04:12.720 --> 01:04:13.440
So there's a link

01:04:13.440 --> 01:04:14.160
if I click on that

01:04:14.160 --> 01:04:15.200
it'll open up a browser

01:04:15.760 --> 01:04:16.320
but there's other

01:04:16.320 --> 01:04:17.120
different types of

01:04:17.120 --> 01:04:17.840
nodes in here

01:04:18.400 --> 01:04:19.040
and this is I think

01:04:19.040 --> 01:04:19.840
what people are going

01:04:19.840 --> 01:04:20.560
to be looking for.

01:04:21.920 --> 01:04:24.000
So if I expand this

01:04:24.000 --> 01:04:24.960
this Rick Lyons

01:04:24.960 --> 01:04:26.000
Stephanie De Bruzzo

01:04:26.640 --> 01:04:27.760
that's the album title

01:04:28.960 --> 01:04:29.760
if I open that

01:04:31.120 --> 01:04:32.240
that's the actual song

01:04:34.000 --> 01:04:35.920
and if I double click on that

01:04:35.920 --> 01:04:37.440
it's going to open it up here

01:04:38.320 --> 01:04:38.960
hold on

01:04:38.960 --> 01:04:39.920
it opened it here

01:04:39.920 --> 01:04:41.280
it opens up this player

01:04:41.280 --> 01:04:42.000
ready for me to go

01:04:42.000 --> 01:04:42.560
all I have to do is

01:04:42.560 --> 01:04:43.440
hit the space bar.

01:04:54.640 --> 01:05:01.680
I don't have the lyrics

01:05:01.680 --> 01:05:02.480
but you'll get

01:05:02.480 --> 01:05:03.440
you'll get it pretty quickly.

01:05:20.400 --> 01:05:21.200
So we could listen

01:05:21.200 --> 01:05:22.000
that all day of course

01:05:22.640 --> 01:05:23.360
but meanwhile

01:05:24.080 --> 01:05:24.640
you might have seen

01:05:24.640 --> 01:05:25.680
that I right clicked

01:05:25.680 --> 01:05:27.280
on this song

01:05:27.280 --> 01:05:28.080
and it brings up

01:05:28.880 --> 01:05:30.480
what I think is the metadata

01:05:31.280 --> 01:05:31.760
don't ask me

01:05:31.760 --> 01:05:32.480
how it got in there

01:05:32.480 --> 01:05:33.040
because I'm not quite

01:05:33.040 --> 01:05:34.080
I haven't quite figured that out

01:05:34.800 --> 01:05:36.800
but in my opml file

01:05:36.800 --> 01:05:37.200
I have

01:05:38.000 --> 01:05:38.960
the album artist

01:05:38.960 --> 01:05:39.600
and then under

01:05:40.480 --> 01:05:41.440
ads is where you get

01:05:41.440 --> 01:05:43.120
basically a lot of the

01:05:43.120 --> 01:05:44.720
ID3 information

01:05:45.360 --> 01:05:46.320
and it takes me

01:05:46.320 --> 01:05:47.760
zero effort

01:05:47.760 --> 01:05:48.800
to actually create this

01:05:48.800 --> 01:05:50.160
I drop the mp3 files

01:05:50.160 --> 01:05:50.800
I want to use

01:05:50.800 --> 01:05:51.920
into a folder

01:05:51.920 --> 01:05:52.800
and this just kind of

01:05:53.440 --> 01:05:54.480
opens up

01:05:54.480 --> 01:05:56.080
I'm not sure what to do with
this

01:05:56.080 --> 01:05:56.960
I hope people who are

01:05:56.960 --> 01:05:57.440
in this room

01:05:57.440 --> 01:05:58.400
who are developing

01:05:58.400 --> 01:05:59.360
and thinking about this

01:05:59.360 --> 01:06:00.320
will look at it

01:06:00.320 --> 01:06:01.040
and figure out

01:06:01.040 --> 01:06:02.400
how we can use this

01:06:02.400 --> 01:06:03.200
to me it feels like

01:06:03.200 --> 01:06:03.760
I can literally

01:06:03.760 --> 01:06:04.400
I should be able to

01:06:05.200 --> 01:06:06.000
copy

01:06:06.000 --> 01:06:06.880
and paste a link

01:06:06.880 --> 01:06:07.840
into an outline

01:06:07.840 --> 01:06:08.480
and you know

01:06:08.480 --> 01:06:09.040
that should be able

01:06:09.040 --> 01:06:10.000
to bring in

01:06:10.000 --> 01:06:11.360
the the source files

01:06:11.360 --> 01:06:11.920
from

01:06:11.920 --> 01:06:12.800
you know Michael Butler's

01:06:12.800 --> 01:06:13.120
shows

01:06:13.120 --> 01:06:14.080
so I can actually

01:06:14.080 --> 01:06:14.960
just get the mp3

01:06:14.960 --> 01:06:15.440
of the song

01:06:15.440 --> 01:06:16.560
that he was playing

01:06:16.560 --> 01:06:17.280
or it could be

01:06:17.280 --> 01:06:17.920
a browser link

01:06:17.920 --> 01:06:18.640
for that matter

01:06:18.640 --> 01:06:19.440
so I just want to

01:06:19.440 --> 01:06:19.760
bring that up

01:06:19.760 --> 01:06:20.480
so people can start

01:06:20.480 --> 01:06:21.280
thinking about that

01:06:22.160 --> 01:06:22.400
okay

01:06:22.400 --> 01:06:23.040
can we get a mic

01:06:23.040 --> 01:06:23.360
over there

01:06:23.360 --> 01:06:23.760
real quick

01:06:24.480 --> 01:06:25.040
we have about

01:06:26.000 --> 01:06:26.800
eight minutes left

01:06:31.520 --> 01:06:31.920
sorry

01:06:32.880 --> 01:06:33.280
demo

01:06:36.720 --> 01:06:37.360
okay

01:06:37.360 --> 01:06:38.080
well let's just

01:06:38.080 --> 01:06:38.880
take that one

01:06:38.880 --> 01:06:39.360
comment then

01:06:40.480 --> 01:06:41.040
hi Adam

01:06:41.040 --> 01:06:42.000
I'm David Sifri

01:06:42.000 --> 01:06:43.040
from Technorati

01:06:43.040 --> 01:06:43.520
hey David

01:06:44.320 --> 01:06:45.280
and I just wanted to

01:06:45.920 --> 01:06:46.160
you know

01:06:46.160 --> 01:06:46.640
to the point

01:06:46.640 --> 01:06:47.200
of people saying

01:06:47.200 --> 01:06:47.600
oh well

01:06:47.600 --> 01:06:48.320
how do you do

01:06:48.320 --> 01:06:48.560
that

01:06:48.560 --> 01:06:49.520
those kinds of searches

01:06:49.520 --> 01:06:50.320
how do you find

01:06:50.880 --> 01:06:51.200
you know

01:06:51.200 --> 01:06:52.000
this incredible

01:06:52.000 --> 01:06:52.880
wealth of information

01:06:52.880 --> 01:06:53.520
that's out there

01:06:54.240 --> 01:06:55.520
so what we started to do

01:06:56.320 --> 01:06:57.280
is just

01:06:57.280 --> 01:06:57.840
you know

01:06:57.840 --> 01:06:58.400
looking at

01:06:58.400 --> 01:06:58.800
where

01:06:58.800 --> 01:06:59.600
what are the

01:06:59.600 --> 01:07:00.400
podcasts

01:07:00.400 --> 01:07:00.880
that people

01:07:00.880 --> 01:07:01.600
are linking to

01:07:02.640 --> 01:07:02.960
and actually

01:07:02.960 --> 01:07:03.920
that's up there now

01:07:03.920 --> 01:07:04.240
on

01:07:04.240 --> 01:07:04.640
on

01:07:04.640 --> 01:07:04.880
on

01:07:04.880 --> 01:07:05.760
now that's

01:07:05.760 --> 01:07:06.240
commercial

01:07:06.240 --> 01:07:06.800
I just

01:07:06.800 --> 01:07:07.760
I just posted it

01:07:07.760 --> 01:07:08.400
on my blog

01:07:08.400 --> 01:07:09.120
go to my blog

01:07:09.120 --> 01:07:09.600
and see it

01:07:12.320 --> 01:07:13.280
oh I'm sorry

01:07:13.280 --> 01:07:13.600
like

01:07:13.600 --> 01:07:14.480
I just posted

01:07:14.480 --> 01:07:15.200
something that

01:07:15.200 --> 01:07:16.000
that talks about

01:07:16.560 --> 01:07:17.600
how people can get

01:07:19.120 --> 01:07:20.080
I'm sorry Dave

01:07:20.160 --> 01:07:21.280
I didn't realize that

01:07:21.280 --> 01:07:21.600
you know

01:07:21.600 --> 01:07:22.560
the stuff on

01:07:22.560 --> 01:07:23.120
you know

01:07:23.120 --> 01:07:24.240
it's just another directory

01:07:25.520 --> 01:07:26.320
all right hey

01:07:26.320 --> 01:07:27.280
no problem

01:07:27.280 --> 01:07:28.000
sorry for the

01:07:28.000 --> 01:07:28.640
it's what

01:07:28.640 --> 01:07:29.360
really wasn't meant

01:07:29.360 --> 01:07:30.480
there's a commercial message

01:07:30.480 --> 01:07:31.040
no problem

01:07:31.040 --> 01:07:31.760
I was just saying

01:07:31.760 --> 01:07:32.160
it's good

01:07:32.160 --> 01:07:32.640
it's good that we're

01:07:32.640 --> 01:07:33.280
talking about

01:07:33.280 --> 01:07:33.840
it's good well

01:07:33.840 --> 01:07:34.320
it's good that we're

01:07:34.320 --> 01:07:34.960
learning the ground

01:07:34.960 --> 01:07:35.920
rules and reiterating them

01:07:35.920 --> 01:07:36.160
so

01:07:36.960 --> 01:07:37.840
people want to

01:07:37.840 --> 01:07:38.160
see it

01:07:40.320 --> 01:07:40.960
yeah sure

01:07:40.960 --> 01:07:41.280
Hank

01:07:41.280 --> 01:07:41.840
Hank Berry

01:07:41.840 --> 01:07:42.160
you know

01:07:42.160 --> 01:07:43.040
introduce yourself

01:07:43.040 --> 01:07:44.400
Dave Sifri's my hero so

01:07:45.120 --> 01:07:46.320
you can say whatever you want to
say

01:07:46.320 --> 01:07:47.520
um

01:07:47.520 --> 01:07:49.760
um

01:07:49.760 --> 01:07:50.640
I think that a lot of

01:07:50.640 --> 01:07:51.200
the energies

01:07:51.200 --> 01:07:51.760
I'm Hank Berry

01:07:51.760 --> 01:07:52.320
this a lot of

01:07:52.320 --> 01:07:53.440
energy is being expended

01:07:53.440 --> 01:07:54.000
on something that

01:07:54.000 --> 01:07:54.720
Apple can shut off

01:07:54.720 --> 01:07:55.680
relatively quickly

01:07:56.320 --> 01:07:56.720
and

01:07:57.440 --> 01:07:58.080
I know

01:07:58.080 --> 01:07:59.120
from personal experience

01:07:59.120 --> 01:07:59.360
that

01:08:00.480 --> 01:08:01.360
the r-a-a doesn't

01:08:01.360 --> 01:08:02.400
like mp3 files

01:08:03.120 --> 01:08:04.000
and I think that

01:08:04.000 --> 01:08:04.960
is the

01:08:04.960 --> 01:08:06.240
the technology proliferates

01:08:06.240 --> 01:08:06.640
is going to be

01:08:06.640 --> 01:08:07.760
this question of

01:08:07.760 --> 01:08:08.320
are people going to

01:08:08.320 --> 01:08:09.920
support open mp3 files

01:08:09.920 --> 01:08:10.480
and so I think

01:08:10.480 --> 01:08:11.120
somebody like

01:08:11.120 --> 01:08:11.680
feedburner

01:08:11.680 --> 01:08:12.400
should think about

01:08:12.400 --> 01:08:13.120
writing a client

01:08:13.120 --> 01:08:13.760
that'll go down

01:08:13.760 --> 01:08:14.960
on an mp3 player

01:08:15.920 --> 01:08:16.640
so that you can

01:08:16.640 --> 01:08:17.520
be assured that

01:08:17.520 --> 01:08:18.080
you're going to have

01:08:18.880 --> 01:08:19.760
some client software

01:08:19.760 --> 01:08:20.160
down there

01:08:20.160 --> 01:08:20.800
close to the

01:08:21.360 --> 01:08:23.040
to the portable device

01:08:23.040 --> 01:08:24.320
that will remain

01:08:24.320 --> 01:08:24.800
open

01:08:24.800 --> 01:08:25.680
because I don't think

01:08:25.680 --> 01:08:27.280
you can rely on that

01:08:27.280 --> 01:08:28.320
connection existing

01:08:28.320 --> 01:08:29.680
for a long period of time

01:08:29.680 --> 01:08:30.400
Sony has announced

01:08:30.400 --> 01:08:30.800
of course that

01:08:30.800 --> 01:08:31.360
they're going to

01:08:31.360 --> 01:08:32.080
continue to support

01:08:32.080 --> 01:08:32.720
they're now going to

01:08:32.720 --> 01:08:34.240
support open mp3s

01:08:34.240 --> 01:08:35.040
on their devices

01:08:35.040 --> 01:08:35.520
and people need

01:08:35.520 --> 01:08:36.240
to form alliances

01:08:36.240 --> 01:08:36.720
with people

01:08:36.720 --> 01:08:37.440
other than Apple

01:08:37.440 --> 01:08:37.840
in order to make

01:08:37.840 --> 01:08:38.320
sure this thing

01:08:38.320 --> 01:08:38.800
keeps going

01:08:44.000 --> 01:08:44.720
well I mean

01:08:44.720 --> 01:08:45.200
yeah just keep

01:08:45.200 --> 01:08:45.680
can you just keep

01:08:45.680 --> 01:08:46.320
the mic with Hank

01:08:46.640 --> 01:08:47.520
you said two things

01:08:47.520 --> 01:08:48.400
that freak me out

01:08:48.400 --> 01:08:49.120
one was Apple

01:08:49.120 --> 01:08:49.840
could shut it down

01:08:50.560 --> 01:08:51.200
Apple could decide

01:08:51.200 --> 01:08:51.520
that they're not

01:08:51.520 --> 01:08:52.080
going to support

01:08:52.080 --> 01:08:53.440
mp3 files anymore

01:08:53.440 --> 01:08:54.400
they could very easily

01:08:54.400 --> 01:08:54.720
do that

01:08:54.720 --> 01:08:55.360
as the latest

01:08:55.360 --> 01:08:56.160
rev of the software

01:08:56.160 --> 01:08:56.400
but that doesn't

01:08:56.400 --> 01:08:56.960
shut down

01:08:56.960 --> 01:08:58.560
I mean mp3 players

01:08:58.560 --> 01:08:58.960
are rampant

01:08:58.960 --> 01:08:59.440
it's not just the

01:08:59.440 --> 01:09:00.000
iPod

01:09:00.000 --> 01:09:00.640
no I understand

01:09:00.640 --> 01:09:01.840
but my point is that

01:09:01.840 --> 01:09:02.320
that if you look

01:09:02.320 --> 01:09:02.800
around the room

01:09:02.800 --> 01:09:03.600
here this is

01:09:03.600 --> 01:09:04.640
we have a lot of

01:09:04.640 --> 01:09:05.360
a lot of

01:09:05.360 --> 01:09:06.720
Apple materials here

01:09:06.720 --> 01:09:07.360
the fact that

01:09:07.360 --> 01:09:08.400
people are using

01:09:09.120 --> 01:09:09.680
iPods

01:09:09.680 --> 01:09:10.160
I'd say for

01:09:10.160 --> 01:09:10.800
the majority

01:09:10.800 --> 01:09:11.520
of podcast

01:09:11.520 --> 01:09:12.800
listening in the world

01:09:12.800 --> 01:09:14.240
on a portable basis

01:09:14.240 --> 01:09:14.880
is that I mean

01:09:14.880 --> 01:09:15.920
maybe I'm mistaken

01:09:16.000 --> 01:09:16.560
to disagree

01:09:16.560 --> 01:09:17.440
I don't think we have

01:09:17.440 --> 01:09:18.240
many of those numbers

01:09:18.240 --> 01:09:19.440
really we don't know

01:09:19.440 --> 01:09:21.120
okay then that's great

01:09:21.120 --> 01:09:21.840
but I do think

01:09:21.840 --> 01:09:22.880
that there is this issue

01:09:22.880 --> 01:09:23.840
out there about mp3

01:09:23.840 --> 01:09:24.320
and that people

01:09:24.320 --> 01:09:25.200
shouldn't rely on that

01:09:25.200 --> 01:09:26.080
being around forever

01:09:30.080 --> 01:09:30.640
we don't have enough

01:09:30.640 --> 01:09:31.360
time to go into this

01:09:31.360 --> 01:09:32.960
but I strongly disagree

01:09:32.960 --> 01:09:33.760
with that mp3s

01:09:33.760 --> 01:09:34.400
are going away

01:09:34.400 --> 01:09:35.120
I don't see that

01:09:36.000 --> 01:09:37.120
mp3 files maybe

01:09:37.600 --> 01:09:38.080
no I just

01:09:42.080 --> 01:09:42.480
hold on just

01:09:43.760 --> 01:09:44.320
just give them the mic

01:09:44.320 --> 01:09:44.640
because he's

01:09:44.640 --> 01:09:45.200
supported by the

01:09:45.200 --> 01:09:45.920
Apple platform

01:09:45.920 --> 01:09:46.720
being supported by the

01:09:46.720 --> 01:09:47.520
Windows platform

01:09:47.520 --> 01:09:48.160
those are the two things

01:09:48.160 --> 01:09:48.480
I'm saying

01:09:49.840 --> 01:09:50.480
where do you want to go

01:09:50.480 --> 01:09:50.960
to Larry

01:09:52.960 --> 01:09:53.200
so

01:09:54.320 --> 01:09:54.880
so I

01:09:54.880 --> 01:09:55.600
I want to talk about

01:09:55.600 --> 01:09:56.320
a different kind of

01:09:56.320 --> 01:09:56.800
development

01:09:56.800 --> 01:09:57.520
that has to happen

01:09:57.520 --> 01:09:58.080
in this space

01:09:59.920 --> 01:10:00.400
if you look at the

01:10:00.400 --> 01:10:01.200
history of the Internet

01:10:01.200 --> 01:10:02.080
looks something like this

01:10:02.640 --> 01:10:03.440
tech

01:10:03.440 --> 01:10:04.880
people have great ideas

01:10:04.880 --> 01:10:05.280
about how to

01:10:05.280 --> 01:10:06.240
make stuff work

01:10:06.240 --> 01:10:07.280
and lawyers come in

01:10:07.280 --> 01:10:08.160
with hatchets

01:10:08.160 --> 01:10:09.040
and cut it apart

01:10:10.080 --> 01:10:10.720
that's basically

01:10:10.720 --> 01:10:11.440
the life that

01:10:11.440 --> 01:10:12.240
Hank lived

01:10:12.240 --> 01:10:13.520
it's the life that

01:10:13.520 --> 01:10:14.320
I think we should

01:10:14.320 --> 01:10:15.920
design this system

01:10:15.920 --> 01:10:16.800
to avoid

01:10:16.800 --> 01:10:17.680
so I think

01:10:17.680 --> 01:10:18.400
one important

01:10:21.120 --> 01:10:22.640
one important development

01:10:22.640 --> 01:10:23.920
which I'd be eager to help

01:10:24.800 --> 01:10:25.360
begin

01:10:25.360 --> 01:10:26.240
would be thoughts

01:10:26.240 --> 01:10:27.040
about how we can

01:10:27.040 --> 01:10:28.320
begin to wrap this

01:10:29.200 --> 01:10:31.040
so that it's impenetrable

01:10:31.040 --> 01:10:33.200
by the 20th century

01:10:33.200 --> 01:10:34.160
legal mind

01:10:34.160 --> 01:10:35.520
so it can flow

01:10:36.080 --> 01:10:36.720
and develop

01:10:36.720 --> 01:10:37.520
in all sorts of ways

01:10:37.520 --> 01:10:37.920
none of us

01:10:37.920 --> 01:10:38.560
can predict

01:10:38.560 --> 01:10:39.440
without somebody

01:10:39.440 --> 01:10:40.000
saying that

01:10:40.000 --> 01:10:41.280
the RIAA lawyers

01:10:41.280 --> 01:10:41.920
have deemed this

01:10:41.920 --> 01:10:42.640
to be illegal

01:10:42.640 --> 01:10:43.280
and therefore

01:10:43.280 --> 01:10:44.480
Apple has to shut it down

01:10:44.480 --> 01:10:45.200
or Microsoft

01:10:45.200 --> 01:10:46.400
has to shut it down

01:10:46.400 --> 01:10:48.000
so one part of the development

01:10:48.000 --> 01:10:49.600
is architecting

01:10:49.600 --> 01:10:50.400
the freedoms

01:10:50.400 --> 01:10:51.360
into this system

01:10:51.360 --> 01:10:52.160
to guarantee

01:10:52.160 --> 01:10:52.880
that it can be used

01:10:52.880 --> 01:10:54.160
in all sorts of different ways

01:10:54.720 --> 01:10:56.560
without requiring

01:10:56.560 --> 01:10:57.520
people that I train

01:10:57.520 --> 01:10:58.080
for a living

01:10:58.080 --> 01:10:59.120
to stand between you

01:10:59.120 --> 01:10:59.680
and the people

01:10:59.680 --> 01:11:00.800
you want to talk to

01:11:00.800 --> 01:11:01.280
oh we

01:11:01.280 --> 01:11:01.920
certainly welcome

01:11:01.920 --> 01:11:02.640
your help on that

01:11:05.360 --> 01:11:05.680
hold on

01:11:05.680 --> 01:11:07.360
how many blocks do you have

01:11:07.360 --> 01:11:08.560
Larry listening to me

01:11:08.560 --> 01:11:10.000
it's an hour and a half

01:11:10.000 --> 01:11:11.120
session on the law

01:11:11.760 --> 01:11:12.720
and blogging

01:11:12.720 --> 01:11:13.840
and so we have

01:11:13.840 --> 01:11:14.960
a whole hour and a half

01:11:14.960 --> 01:11:16.240
to work on this

01:11:16.240 --> 01:11:16.880
and I think there's

01:11:16.880 --> 01:11:18.560
just huge power between

01:11:18.560 --> 01:11:19.120
like

01:11:19.120 --> 01:11:19.760
if Adam

01:11:19.760 --> 01:11:21.120
and Larry could work together

01:11:21.120 --> 01:11:22.560
and that being symbolic

01:11:22.560 --> 01:11:23.360
users and lawyers

01:11:23.360 --> 01:11:24.160
of communities

01:11:24.160 --> 01:11:25.200
well there's like

01:11:25.200 --> 01:11:25.920
lawyers are like

01:11:25.920 --> 01:11:26.640
I learned this at

01:11:26.640 --> 01:11:27.440
Harvard Law School

01:11:27.440 --> 01:11:28.320
is there's like

01:11:28.320 --> 01:11:29.200
good cholesterol

01:11:29.200 --> 01:11:30.080
bad cholesterol

01:11:30.080 --> 01:11:31.040
there's good lawyers

01:11:31.040 --> 01:11:31.920
and bad lawyers

01:11:31.920 --> 01:11:32.800
okay

01:11:32.800 --> 01:11:34.000
Larry is

01:11:34.000 --> 01:11:35.120
these are the good lawyers

01:11:35.120 --> 01:11:35.600
okay

01:11:35.600 --> 01:11:36.240
all right

01:11:36.240 --> 01:11:36.560
yeah

01:11:36.560 --> 01:11:37.680
these are our buddies so

01:11:38.240 --> 01:11:39.040
okay um

01:11:39.040 --> 01:11:39.760
we have exactly

01:11:40.400 --> 01:11:41.520
developers and users

01:11:41.600 --> 01:11:42.240
and lawyers

01:11:42.240 --> 01:11:43.360
parting together

01:11:43.360 --> 01:11:43.520
yeah

01:11:44.720 --> 01:11:45.520
which is dull

01:11:50.080 --> 01:11:50.800
sorry

01:11:50.800 --> 01:11:51.840
I'm an acronym guy

01:11:53.520 --> 01:11:54.320
okay so I literally

01:11:54.320 --> 01:11:55.040
have

01:11:55.040 --> 01:11:55.760
three minutes

01:11:55.760 --> 01:11:55.920
and

01:11:58.640 --> 01:11:59.520
people would like to see

01:12:00.080 --> 01:12:00.560
a demo

01:12:01.200 --> 01:12:01.920
there's really not much

01:12:01.920 --> 01:12:02.400
to demo

01:12:02.400 --> 01:12:03.440
other than I just

01:12:03.440 --> 01:12:05.040
I brought my podcasting bag

01:12:06.960 --> 01:12:07.680
and if I

01:12:07.680 --> 01:12:08.480
if I pour the

01:12:08.480 --> 01:12:08.880
well

01:12:08.880 --> 01:12:09.440
shit there's

01:12:09.440 --> 01:12:10.400
part something from my hair

01:12:12.320 --> 01:12:14.720
it's just for bad hair day

01:12:15.200 --> 01:12:15.680
that's uh

01:12:17.120 --> 01:12:17.680
but literally

01:12:18.320 --> 01:12:19.040
you know I just

01:12:19.040 --> 01:12:20.000
brought out the pieces

01:12:20.000 --> 01:12:20.800
that I use

01:12:20.800 --> 01:12:21.280
it's kind of like

01:12:21.280 --> 01:12:21.840
show and tell

01:12:21.840 --> 01:12:22.720
in third grade

01:12:24.560 --> 01:12:26.080
what a big part of what

01:12:26.080 --> 01:12:26.880
makes the source code

01:12:26.880 --> 01:12:27.440
different is

01:12:27.440 --> 01:12:28.320
I can walk around

01:12:28.320 --> 01:12:29.280
on mobile

01:12:29.280 --> 01:12:30.080
and that's actually

01:12:30.080 --> 01:12:30.800
the almost

01:12:30.800 --> 01:12:31.760
non-podcast

01:12:31.760 --> 01:12:32.880
or non-blogger

01:12:32.880 --> 01:12:33.840
type piece of equipment

01:12:33.840 --> 01:12:34.560
I have

01:12:34.560 --> 01:12:35.200
which is this

01:12:35.200 --> 01:12:35.680
this is

01:12:35.680 --> 01:12:36.320
just like this one

01:12:36.320 --> 01:12:36.800
it's a

01:12:36.800 --> 01:12:37.520
a lav

01:12:37.520 --> 01:12:38.320
mic

01:12:38.320 --> 01:12:39.520
with a transmitter

01:12:39.520 --> 01:12:40.320
and this is

01:12:40.320 --> 01:12:41.200
the receiver

01:12:41.440 --> 01:12:42.640
very expensive

01:12:42.640 --> 01:12:43.520
if you want to get these

01:12:43.520 --> 01:12:44.640
that really work very well

01:12:45.920 --> 01:12:46.560
this costs

01:12:46.560 --> 01:12:47.760
$2,000 easily

01:12:47.760 --> 01:12:48.560
and yeah it's

01:12:48.560 --> 01:12:49.120
this is

01:12:49.120 --> 01:12:50.480
we did a reality tv show

01:12:50.480 --> 01:12:51.360
and I basically

01:12:51.360 --> 01:12:51.840
kept this

01:12:56.240 --> 01:12:56.480
so

01:12:57.200 --> 01:12:58.560
just to show you all the bits

01:12:58.560 --> 01:12:59.280
and you know

01:12:59.280 --> 01:13:00.000
and we can

01:13:00.000 --> 01:13:00.640
talk about this

01:13:00.640 --> 01:13:01.040
I'm here

01:13:01.040 --> 01:13:01.840
and through Monday

01:13:01.840 --> 01:13:02.640
and everyone can

01:13:02.640 --> 01:13:03.200
can come up

01:13:03.200 --> 01:13:03.760
and I'll show you

01:13:03.760 --> 01:13:04.640
what I'm doing

01:13:04.640 --> 01:13:05.040
literally

01:13:05.040 --> 01:13:05.600
so this is

01:13:05.600 --> 01:13:06.880
this is your microphone jack

01:13:07.840 --> 01:13:08.560
I put that

01:13:08.560 --> 01:13:09.520
into the

01:13:09.520 --> 01:13:10.480
the microphone jack

01:13:10.480 --> 01:13:11.360
here the line in

01:13:12.640 --> 01:13:13.840
and after

01:13:13.840 --> 01:13:14.640
many many

01:13:14.640 --> 01:13:15.680
many hours of

01:13:16.560 --> 01:13:18.000
extreme sadness

01:13:18.800 --> 01:13:19.360
and

01:13:19.360 --> 01:13:20.160
crying

01:13:20.160 --> 01:13:20.960
and

01:13:20.960 --> 01:13:22.160
making up excuses

01:13:22.160 --> 01:13:22.400
and

01:13:23.600 --> 01:13:24.960
of lost shows

01:13:24.960 --> 01:13:25.440
that I

01:13:25.440 --> 01:13:27.360
tried to record directly

01:13:27.360 --> 01:13:28.240
to my hard disk

01:13:28.240 --> 01:13:28.800
and I've used

01:13:29.360 --> 01:13:30.480
every single combination

01:13:30.480 --> 01:13:31.200
of programs

01:13:31.200 --> 01:13:32.000
I can come up with

01:13:34.000 --> 01:13:35.200
it's just not safe

01:13:37.120 --> 01:13:37.760
I think that

01:13:37.760 --> 01:13:38.480
a lot of people here

01:13:38.480 --> 01:13:39.120
have witnessed

01:13:39.120 --> 01:13:40.480
an hour's worth of recording

01:13:40.480 --> 01:13:42.000
and it's gone

01:13:42.000 --> 01:13:43.120
your computer crashes

01:13:44.320 --> 01:13:44.880
so

01:13:44.880 --> 01:13:46.320
I'm going to make a
recommendation

01:13:46.320 --> 01:13:47.280
which is not

01:13:47.280 --> 01:13:47.680
necessary

01:13:47.680 --> 01:13:48.640
I wish it were different

01:13:48.640 --> 01:13:49.680
but I haven't yet to see

01:13:50.640 --> 01:13:51.200
a pc

01:13:51.760 --> 01:13:53.040
that can reliably

01:13:53.040 --> 01:13:54.320
record audio

01:13:54.320 --> 01:13:55.360
and you know

01:13:55.360 --> 01:13:56.400
unless it's a

01:13:56.400 --> 01:13:57.280
a high-end system

01:13:57.280 --> 01:13:58.000
where they probably

01:13:58.000 --> 01:13:59.120
give you external

01:13:59.120 --> 01:13:59.680
hardware

01:13:59.680 --> 01:14:00.800
external drives

01:14:00.800 --> 01:14:02.400
and that's exactly what I did

01:14:02.400 --> 01:14:03.040
is I went out

01:14:03.040 --> 01:14:04.000
and bought the ugliest

01:14:04.000 --> 01:14:04.640
the ugliest

01:14:05.600 --> 01:14:06.720
little mp3 player

01:14:06.720 --> 01:14:07.440
it's called a yep

01:14:07.440 --> 01:14:08.800
I think Samsung makes it

01:14:09.280 --> 01:14:10.320
orange and brush metal

01:14:10.320 --> 01:14:11.520
is just totally doing it for me

01:14:12.720 --> 01:14:14.560
it can take 256 megs

01:14:14.560 --> 01:14:15.840
of data

01:14:15.840 --> 01:14:16.560
and you can also

01:14:16.560 --> 01:14:17.280
record onto it

01:14:17.280 --> 01:14:17.920
so this has

01:14:17.920 --> 01:14:18.720
none of the playlist

01:14:18.720 --> 01:14:19.120
features

01:14:19.120 --> 01:14:20.000
or any of that stuff

01:14:20.000 --> 01:14:20.720
and I guess

01:14:20.720 --> 01:14:21.920
that some chipset came out

01:14:21.920 --> 01:14:22.320
that you know

01:14:22.320 --> 01:14:23.840
these seem to be everywhere

01:14:23.840 --> 01:14:24.880
and literally

01:14:24.880 --> 01:14:26.000
I just plug this

01:14:26.000 --> 01:14:27.040
into the headphone jack

01:14:27.680 --> 01:14:28.720
of my

01:14:28.720 --> 01:14:29.440
of my computer

01:14:30.160 --> 01:14:30.960
and

01:14:30.960 --> 01:14:31.600
anything

01:14:31.600 --> 01:14:32.160
any sound

01:14:32.160 --> 01:14:32.800
I can create

01:14:32.800 --> 01:14:33.520
on my computer

01:14:34.160 --> 01:14:35.680
will basically be recorded

01:14:35.680 --> 01:14:36.640
to this thing

01:14:36.640 --> 01:14:37.280
and then

01:14:37.280 --> 01:14:37.840
when I'm done

01:14:37.840 --> 01:14:39.360
I can plug this into the usb

01:14:39.360 --> 01:14:40.640
and there's the mp3 file

01:14:40.640 --> 01:14:41.760
and I go through the

01:14:41.760 --> 01:14:43.600
also a completely laborious
process

01:14:43.600 --> 01:14:44.720
which would take me 20 minutes

01:14:44.720 --> 01:14:46.000
here to show you of

01:14:46.000 --> 01:14:46.880
uploading it

01:14:46.880 --> 01:14:48.640
oh I forgot to do the id3 tags

01:14:48.640 --> 01:14:49.680
and there's all this stuff

01:14:49.680 --> 01:14:51.840
that we have no tools

01:14:51.840 --> 01:14:53.360
for creating podcasts

01:14:53.360 --> 01:14:54.240
now the big difference

01:14:54.960 --> 01:14:55.520
with

01:14:55.520 --> 01:14:56.000
what I do

01:14:56.000 --> 01:14:56.720
and what most people

01:14:56.720 --> 01:14:57.920
that I'm hearing doing

01:14:57.920 --> 01:14:58.320
is

01:14:58.320 --> 01:14:59.440
I don't edit my show

01:15:00.080 --> 01:15:00.560
I don't

01:15:01.200 --> 01:15:02.480
put the stuff in later

01:15:02.480 --> 01:15:03.920
I do it all live on the fly

01:15:03.920 --> 01:15:04.880
which is kind of like

01:15:04.880 --> 01:15:06.000
playing Nintendo

01:15:06.000 --> 01:15:07.360
it's hand-eye coordination

01:15:08.400 --> 01:15:09.200
and

01:15:09.200 --> 01:15:09.600
it's true

01:15:10.640 --> 01:15:11.280
so we can

01:15:11.280 --> 01:15:12.000
you know go back

01:15:12.000 --> 01:15:12.960
so basically

01:15:12.960 --> 01:15:14.240
I just open up my microphone

01:15:14.240 --> 01:15:15.600
and just switch it on

01:15:15.600 --> 01:15:15.840
and

01:15:16.480 --> 01:15:17.600
and while I'm talking

01:15:17.600 --> 01:15:18.480
you see what I'm doing now

01:15:18.480 --> 01:15:19.120
it's kind of tougher

01:15:19.120 --> 01:15:20.320
to do it looking at two screens

01:15:20.320 --> 01:15:20.800
and I

01:15:20.800 --> 01:15:22.160
hit the space bar

01:15:22.160 --> 01:15:22.720
and I can

01:15:22.720 --> 01:15:23.680
control the volume

01:15:23.680 --> 01:15:24.960
you see I'm controlling the
volume

01:15:24.960 --> 01:15:25.360
there

01:15:25.360 --> 01:15:26.880
by holding down the apple key

01:15:26.880 --> 01:15:28.480
and up and down arrows

01:15:28.480 --> 01:15:29.680
and that's basically my

01:15:29.680 --> 01:15:30.240
fader

01:15:30.240 --> 01:15:31.440
if you're working radio

01:15:31.440 --> 01:15:32.720
you know there's a slider there

01:15:32.720 --> 01:15:33.760
you can pull up and down

01:15:35.200 --> 01:15:36.400
and then if I want to

01:15:36.400 --> 01:15:37.280
go to

01:15:37.280 --> 01:15:37.920
the next thing

01:15:38.640 --> 01:15:39.280
which would

01:15:39.280 --> 01:15:40.160
be this

01:15:40.160 --> 01:15:41.040
you know I can have these

01:15:41.040 --> 01:15:41.440
queued up

01:15:41.440 --> 01:15:42.080
I can have them

01:15:42.080 --> 01:15:42.400
I can

01:15:43.040 --> 01:15:43.680
in radio

01:15:44.160 --> 01:15:45.040
radio stations have

01:15:45.040 --> 01:15:45.520
what we call

01:15:45.520 --> 01:15:46.000
cart machine

01:15:46.000 --> 01:15:46.800
we used to have what we call

01:15:46.800 --> 01:15:47.520
cart machines

01:15:47.520 --> 01:15:48.080
which are

01:15:48.080 --> 01:15:48.880
basically

01:15:48.880 --> 01:15:49.920
jacked up eight tracks

01:15:49.920 --> 01:15:50.960
with a continuous loop

01:15:50.960 --> 01:15:51.680
and you put a song

01:15:51.680 --> 01:15:52.880
on it or a commercial

01:15:52.880 --> 01:15:53.840
and then when it's over

01:15:53.840 --> 01:15:54.400
it's queued up

01:15:54.400 --> 01:15:55.200
and it's ready to go

01:15:55.200 --> 01:15:55.520
so

01:15:55.520 --> 01:15:56.320
this almost looks

01:15:56.320 --> 01:15:57.200
exactly the same

01:15:57.200 --> 01:15:57.520
when I

01:15:58.080 --> 01:15:58.880
when I look at it

01:15:59.600 --> 01:16:00.400
so I just crank up

01:16:00.400 --> 01:16:01.280
the volume on this

01:16:01.840 --> 01:16:02.080
and

01:16:03.040 --> 01:16:03.440
perfect

01:16:06.000 --> 01:16:06.720
it's 1015

01:16:06.720 --> 01:16:07.840
that's the end of the podcasting

01:16:07.840 --> 01:16:08.560
session everybody

01:16:27.920 --> 01:16:28.560
you've been listening

01:16:28.560 --> 01:16:29.840
to the podcasting session

01:16:29.840 --> 01:16:30.960
from blogger con three

01:16:30.960 --> 01:16:32.400
held at stanford university

01:16:32.400 --> 01:16:34.240
on november 6 2004

01:16:34.800 --> 01:16:35.760
my name is dug k

01:16:35.760 --> 01:16:36.320
and I hope you'll

01:16:36.320 --> 01:16:37.120
join me next time

01:16:37.120 --> 01:16:38.240
for another edition of

01:16:38.240 --> 01:16:39.440
it conversations