WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:06.800 Well, hi, everybody. Welcome to the Daily Source Code coming to you from Central Park 00:06.800 --> 00:14.960 in New York City. It's Saturday, it is 115 in the afternoon. Today is the 16th of April, 00:14.960 --> 00:23.840 2005, and it couldn't be a more beautiful day in the city. This is one of those picture 00:23.840 --> 00:31.200 perfect moments, and I've kind of got the right mood for sitting here on a bench central 00:31.200 --> 00:39.680 park on the west side, actually. That's I see right off of Fifth Avenue, and so that's 00:39.680 --> 00:45.520 the loud was at 57th Street. That's kind of where you enter the park across from the Plaza Hotel. 00:46.480 --> 00:54.720 And the sun is shining, I'd say it's about, oh, just a guess, probably about 75, 76 degrees, 00:54.720 --> 01:01.360 is it a slight breeze, which just makes it absolutely beautiful. Sun, of course, is bright, 01:02.080 --> 01:11.840 and it's the oasis in this madhouse known as madhattan. This is actually one of the few places 01:11.920 --> 01:18.000 in the world where I don't feel self-conscious about talking into myself, which I'm not. I'm talking 01:18.000 --> 01:26.880 to you. You listening to this in your computer, or maybe you have it in your ears. You're listening 01:26.880 --> 01:35.120 on your MP3 player, or perhaps you've got your FM transmitter blasting on your car radio. Maybe 01:35.200 --> 01:42.880 you've burned this to a CD. That's all completely valid ways to listen to a podcast. 01:44.000 --> 01:49.440 A couple of things, I mean, well, we're at a start, right, and I'm a little bit fuzzy because 01:49.440 --> 01:54.240 definitely went to bed way too late last night. Had one night to catch up with a couple of friends, 01:54.240 --> 01:59.920 and I'll talk about that, but that's, I got to go back, was it three days now, back to 02:00.880 --> 02:06.160 Thursday. Yeah, Thursday, right, when I went to Denver. So I'm just going to try and 02:06.160 --> 02:11.200 wrap up a little bit of the week here in New York and talk to you a bit about what's been going on, 02:11.200 --> 02:16.320 and some things you can expect in the next couple of weeks. Actually, I was planning on having 02:17.040 --> 02:24.000 Ron Bloom do a strategy cast with me. Excuse me, this is a fine cup of Chino that I'm 02:24.000 --> 02:28.640 sipping here from Angela's Rock and Roll Delhi. I'm actually looking to look at this cup for a second. 02:28.640 --> 02:34.800 We are crazy about great food in Rock and Roll, 1428-6 Avenue, right at the park, open seven days, 02:34.800 --> 02:42.960 we deliver, and we cater for all occasions. Corporate accounts, welcome. But we were just so wiped out 02:42.960 --> 02:48.640 from from the week, and last night, Ron is here with his wife, Martha. They pretty much, 02:48.640 --> 02:52.560 if Ron is out of town for more than a day or two, then she always comes along. They used to live in New York, 02:52.560 --> 02:56.960 so she got plenty of friends. And she's been kind of taking care of us every night, making sure 02:56.960 --> 03:02.880 that we had a place to eat, and that we were everything. We were taking care of it just so sweet. 03:02.880 --> 03:05.680 And last night, she said, no, we're going to go out to dinner, we're going to have our last dinner 03:05.680 --> 03:11.280 New York, and I looked at Ron and I knew he was so fucking fried and I said, dude, let's just chill out. 03:11.280 --> 03:16.400 It's actually went to sleep for an hour or two before my friends showed up around 1030. 03:17.280 --> 03:22.560 So let's go back to Thursday. Thursday, Ron and I flew out for a day trip to Denver. 03:23.360 --> 03:29.600 And this is kind of funny because we did this trip 10 years ago, almost to the day, probably. 03:30.560 --> 03:39.920 We flew out to meet with Glenn Jones. Glenn Jones is the founder, and I guess he still does. 03:39.920 --> 03:45.840 I don't know if he's the solo owner, but it bears his name, and I think he pretty much is the guy 03:45.840 --> 03:53.200 calls all the shots of Jones cable, and Jones cable owned a lot of cable networks. 03:54.800 --> 04:00.160 And at that at least 10 years ago, he did. And we went out at that time to talk to him about the 04:00.160 --> 04:05.200 internet. And I don't remember all of them meeting, but I remember a lot of it, and I think that we met 04:05.200 --> 04:11.920 with some other people primarily, you know, like his managers and or what you might call 04:12.000 --> 04:17.840 to tenants and pitch this idea of the internet. And at the time he was certainly interested. 04:17.840 --> 04:24.960 He's a, either a techno file. He's very interested in technology. He has, well, and he kind of 04:24.960 --> 04:29.520 have to be, if you're a certainly 10 years ago cable, even though it may have been perceived by many 04:29.520 --> 04:33.920 is trench diggers. You know, there's a lot of technology that has grown up within the cable business. 04:33.920 --> 04:37.680 Just look at your cable mode. And you know, that was not something people were thinking of 10 years ago. 04:38.320 --> 04:45.200 But I think Glenn Jones might have been. And although he was interested at the time, 04:45.200 --> 04:52.640 we were looking at that time for investment. He didn't take any, and he wished us well, 04:52.640 --> 05:00.480 and that went very well, as far as I'm concerned. So we had the opportunity to go back and talk 05:00.480 --> 05:06.240 to about podcasting, and he was very well prepared. But you kind of got a, and I really wish 05:06.240 --> 05:10.880 like I could have done some sound seeing, and maybe one day I'll go back, and then I will do some 05:10.880 --> 05:17.520 sound seeing of the offices there, because it's, you know what it is? He's really an American dream 05:17.520 --> 05:25.760 come true. He's a, really the epitome of an American entrepreneur. He's, you know, he's got 05:25.760 --> 05:31.200 his beautiful offices there in Denver. He's building his legacy, which is Jones University, 05:31.920 --> 05:37.200 which is a university by a satellite. He was, he actually, he was just starting that 10 years ago, 05:37.200 --> 05:42.320 and I'm not quite sure how it's doing, but I think it's doing very well, just looking all the 05:42.320 --> 05:48.800 uplink dishes that are in the scattered amongst the grounds there. And he's also a major contributor 05:48.800 --> 05:57.840 to the US, the Congress, the Library of Congress. Is that right? Library of Congress? 05:58.560 --> 06:01.360 Oh, here comes a little squirrel. Hey squirrel. How are you doing? 06:03.360 --> 06:07.680 There's no tame here. Hey, hey buddy. Just walking right back. 06:10.160 --> 06:16.000 And so we, we didn't do a tour of the building, because it, not that much had changed, but 06:16.000 --> 06:21.840 what has changed is he sold all of his physical assets. I think he's pretty smart, you know, 06:21.840 --> 06:24.960 where people are saying, now you got to buy cable, but one more cable stations, you know, 06:24.960 --> 06:29.200 consolidate and he's saying, nah, it's over. He's selling. He's getting, he got rid of it all. 06:29.200 --> 06:36.640 He's rebuilding his empire in cyberspace, his virtual empire. He's doing, excuse me for a second. 06:39.840 --> 06:47.760 Perhaps I should have warned you. He's doing a building systems and all kinds of 06:48.160 --> 06:54.240 interesting projects. But he basically has a big water cache, and he's investing it. As I said, 06:54.320 --> 06:59.600 he's building his legacy. And my question of all of his assets, but he's heavy into radio, 06:59.600 --> 07:04.400 and he's very interesting. He knows a lot about it. And he's not a, not an extremely young guy. 07:04.400 --> 07:09.280 He's 74 years old. It doesn't look 74. But he's got to set up, you know, he's got, 07:09.280 --> 07:14.640 right across his offices. He's not quite sure what the name of the airfield is. Of course, 07:14.640 --> 07:19.040 not the main-gen airport. There's not an airfield, like five minutes across the way from his office. 07:19.040 --> 07:24.640 And he's got his, his hawker 800 jet there. So this is the guy that many guys would like to be. 07:25.520 --> 07:31.440 And he has his inner sanctum inside the office, and that, you know, it's kind of, 07:31.440 --> 07:38.160 what is it like? The real beautiful shiny wood kind of French 18 layers of lacquer. 07:39.840 --> 07:46.640 Just phenomenally beautiful with a library dining room area. He has a bedroom there if he wants to crash 07:46.640 --> 07:52.720 out, you know, the private inner sanctum. He also has, and this is so cool. He has a war room. 07:53.840 --> 07:57.360 We didn't go in at this time. Remember, 10 years ago, it's, you know, you go through these 07:58.080 --> 08:03.440 security revolving doors, only one person at a time, and, you know, you really can't get in or out 08:03.440 --> 08:08.640 without, without him, you know, the retinal scan type, the wheel, which is just, it's showy, but it's, 08:08.640 --> 08:11.760 it's cool, you know, if you're going to build something, you're going to build a war room, 08:11.760 --> 08:16.800 build it anyway, and there he's got, you know, just topped a bottom monitors and, you know, 08:16.800 --> 08:22.960 the theater seats, and he can control his entire empire and monitor everything from there, 08:22.960 --> 08:27.440 which is, you know, the kind of the, wah-ha-ha, I'll give you a white kitten to pet to what I 08:27.440 --> 08:33.920 sit in my war room. But really, now the nowadays, it's a use for his, for his Jones University. 08:34.160 --> 08:41.760 So, you know, you kind of want to bring each other up to date, you know, what you've been doing, 08:41.760 --> 08:51.200 and he served lunch for us, and it was Ron, myself, Gary Schoenfeld from Media America, who I started 08:51.200 --> 09:01.920 on-ramp with 10 years ago, before Ron joined, and I think Gary sold his company to Jones, 09:01.920 --> 09:11.120 and so he's a member of the InterSanctum. So, you know, we were kind of talking, and they were 09:11.120 --> 09:16.960 sort of, what, what do we get? We first got a nice, pronged cocktail, you know, the jumbo shrimp, 09:17.840 --> 09:25.360 and then the main course was this, just, I, I, I, I, I, I, in fact, I actually said, you know, 09:25.520 --> 09:30.640 Glenn, I got to tell you this, this, this, this beef, this meat, it's just so wonderful. It's so 09:31.600 --> 09:37.520 the texture, the flavor, and I knew that they, I saw on the balcony of, uh, of the offices, 09:37.520 --> 09:41.360 of the office suite, that, you know, there was actually a barbecue, and they were, they'd barbecue 09:41.360 --> 09:49.040 this lunch for us at the office, go figure. Um, it's just wonderful, and he said, well, that's 09:49.120 --> 09:56.720 because it's, uh, Buffalo, and I never had Buffalo before, but, oh, man, it's just, what a great 09:56.720 --> 10:02.800 taste, and your knife almost just falls through this meat, you know, like butter almost. So, 10:02.800 --> 10:08.240 so we're in this, this, this, this meeting, and again, it's in the InterSanctum, and, you know, it's 10:08.240 --> 10:15.040 very chic, and it's, uh, it's very plush. And all I could think of as we're talking, and, you know, 10:15.120 --> 10:20.880 catching up on 10 years of history is man. Chris Rockwell from the Daily Download would love to 10:20.880 --> 10:24.880 experiment with Buffalo, you know, what comes out the other end after you've had Buffalo. 10:26.080 --> 10:34.480 So that was my, my private little joke moment that was going on there. Uh, so then we, uh, 10:34.480 --> 10:40.400 and we actually talked for quite a while, and then after that, we had a, uh, a presentation, uh, 10:40.400 --> 10:47.280 for several executives within, within the company, uh, to talk about, you know, what podcasting is, 10:47.280 --> 10:51.680 what, uh, where we feel it's going to go, what could be done, what the opportunities are, 10:51.680 --> 10:56.880 what the industry needs if we really want to turn this into a medium, which believe me is money, 10:58.880 --> 11:02.320 but was really exciting. First of all, there's some very smart people there, 11:02.320 --> 11:07.520 know a lot about radio and understand the current, uh, dynamics of the radio industry and, 11:07.600 --> 11:11.840 and have dreams that have wishes, you know, man, if only we could do this, and I think they got 11:11.840 --> 11:20.000 really excited every single time they figured out exactly what they could do. Um, um, one of the 11:20.000 --> 11:26.400 things that was exciting to me was, uh, in fact, talking to a couple of people from Jones University, 11:27.040 --> 11:33.680 they immediately glammed on to the power of, of podcasting, uh, in the scholastic system, and 11:34.000 --> 11:38.320 something that I'd like to bring up, if you haven't heard of it before, if you haven't seen it, 11:38.320 --> 11:44.640 a for about, oh, man, I think almost five years now, I've been running schoolblocks.com, 11:45.920 --> 11:53.280 and schoolblocks.com is a free weblog service for anyone who's going to use it for scholastic purposes, 11:53.840 --> 12:00.160 so that can be teachers, students, uh, administrative personnel, professors, 12:00.720 --> 12:07.520 anyone who was going to use this for an educational purpose, uh, is welcome to open up a weblog at schoolblocks.com. 12:08.400 --> 12:14.080 And, uh, it's not, you know, the fastest service in the world because, uh, well, it runs on one 12:14.080 --> 12:20.160 server, which is as tuned as possible, you know, but there's a lot of support that goes into 12:20.160 --> 12:25.120 at Marcus Mowler, who's been working with me for, uh, for as many years at least, um, 12:25.200 --> 12:31.600 maintains that 24-7, make sure the server's running provides support to people who kind of fall off the edge. 12:31.600 --> 12:36.960 It's, it runs on a vanilla server, so sometimes shit just breaks and fucks up, and, you know, that happens, 12:38.000 --> 12:42.400 and stuff that, um, a user can't even fix. I don't know if you've ever seen that with a vanilla site, 12:42.400 --> 12:47.600 where somehow something with the calendar and you switch over, or you switch over to the next month, 12:48.160 --> 12:52.640 and I'm not quite sure how you can get into the situation, but it can just break, and then you get this, 12:52.800 --> 12:57.920 or error at the home page of your weblog. So he fixes all that stuff regularly, and it just helps people 12:57.920 --> 13:03.040 when they don't quite understand. Um, we have a donation button on, uh, on all of the 13:03.760 --> 13:10.320 school blogs, um, a PayPal donation button. I think that I've received a whopping total of, 13:11.120 --> 13:17.280 maybe $500, and now probably $1,000 and five years, but that's not what it's about. 13:18.240 --> 13:23.760 It's, uh, maybe it's, we'll just call it one of my ways of, uh, of contributing back. 13:25.600 --> 13:32.080 Um, but they completely understand, uh, the power of, uh, of that interactivity. And you know, 13:32.080 --> 13:36.640 that was something that started in my daughter's class. And if, if you look at the traditional 13:36.640 --> 13:41.920 student teacher relationship, her, her, I'm going to say her, um, fifth grade class. That is with the 13:41.920 --> 13:46.400 Peter Ford or teacher. I talked about this in blog about it many, many times. Look up Peter Ford. 13:47.200 --> 13:54.240 He's one of the true heroes behind this project. And, um, if you have, you know, if a teacher 13:54.240 --> 13:58.240 says, okay, here's your assignment. I want you to write this, you know, story or paper or whatever, 13:58.800 --> 14:02.960 then the student will write it and we'll hand it into the teacher, you know, basically saying, 14:02.960 --> 14:08.240 okay, teach here it is. And, you know, here's my effort towards you because you're really writing it 14:08.240 --> 14:14.160 for the teacher and maybe not for anybody else. Now if the teacher said, if the assignment says, 14:14.400 --> 14:20.080 you know, write this on your web blog or write some blog posts about this topic or create a project 14:20.960 --> 14:28.800 outlined for this, uh, for this assignment. Um, then it kind of the dynamics change because not only 14:28.800 --> 14:33.120 will the teacher be able to see it, they'll be able to see it as you're writing it perhaps as 14:33.120 --> 14:38.880 edits occur. Your peers and the classroom will be able to read along and check it out. And, uh, 14:38.880 --> 14:43.120 as well as your family and friends and anyone else who give the URL to. So, all of a sudden there's 14:43.120 --> 14:48.480 an audience and then the dynamics are writing and reading and the interactivity between the two 14:48.480 --> 14:55.840 with comments, uh, really changes the way, you know, the work is done. And, uh, I'm not an educator. 14:55.840 --> 15:01.200 I, you know, I don't know anything about teaching. Uh, I wasn't too brilliant in school myself, 15:01.200 --> 15:07.760 but I've seen the results and I've seen how incredibly motivated kids got, um, to be a part of 15:07.920 --> 15:14.720 something like this. And, essentially, the podcasting part is, you know, we can add just a few 15:14.720 --> 15:20.000 bits to it and, you know, you can turn all of these, oh, I don't know how many thousands of school 15:20.000 --> 15:25.840 blogs are already created. You know, they all could be podcasting. They could be podcasts, uh, show notes 15:25.840 --> 15:32.800 and, uh, and podcast feeds. And, we talked about all the different kinds of opportunities there. 15:32.800 --> 15:37.040 And, uh, I think that something might come out of that. I'd be very excited to see if we can, uh, 15:37.120 --> 15:42.720 set something up, uh, particularly with Jones University, who knows what else. So, let's see, 15:42.720 --> 15:50.000 then we flew back, we flew coach. I mean, I can't, I just can't bring myself anymore to pay for 15:50.000 --> 15:55.360 business class or hire. I think we've talked about this a couple times, uh, the price is just so 15:55.360 --> 16:00.400 fucking outrageous. It's just, you know, it's not normal anymore. And what do you get? You know, 16:00.400 --> 16:06.240 you don't get any real extra benefit, a little bit of legroom perhaps, but, um, you know, 16:06.240 --> 16:10.400 what we're talking about, three and a half hours. That's not too bad. And it was an Airbus A319, 16:10.400 --> 16:15.920 you know, my favorite. I love the Airbus. That's what easy jet flies. So, I actually discovered now 16:15.920 --> 16:21.360 that I could take easy jet for a longer period than, uh, than the regular hour that it takes to get to Amsterdam. 16:21.360 --> 16:27.040 So, in total, I was on easy jet for seven hours, uh, easy jet on, uh, United, uh, back and forth 16:27.040 --> 16:32.160 from Denver, uh, for total of seven hours. Uh, and it didn't kill me. I wasn't too bad. We did 16:32.160 --> 16:38.160 investigate an upgrade, which is going to be $325 per person each way. That's as screw it dude. Well, 16:38.160 --> 16:43.200 let's drink $700 worth of wine and we get back, which we haven't done. So, I guess we did pretty good. 16:45.440 --> 16:49.040 I was something else I was going to say about the two. Oh yeah, United is the only airline 16:49.040 --> 16:54.720 by the way. Uh, and as far as I know, the only airline, uh, ever in the states to have a, on channel nine, 16:54.720 --> 17:00.880 they, uh, they do from the flight deck. And essentially, you're just listening into the comms on the radio. 17:00.960 --> 17:05.280 So, you're not actually hearing the cockpit, but you're listening to whatever is the, uh, the, the, 17:05.280 --> 17:10.240 the captain and, uh, whatever is heard up on the flight deck on the radio. So, you can really follow 17:10.240 --> 17:16.320 along air traffic control, um, on the way out, uh, there was only music on channel nine and I said, 17:16.320 --> 17:20.480 I asked the, uh, flight attendant, you know, can you please ask the captain to turn it on and 17:20.480 --> 17:24.640 say, no, this captain won't do that. I don't like what the fuck. What are you afraid of, dude? You know, 17:25.520 --> 17:28.560 afraid that we're going to hear you screw up or something like that? Who told on my battery 17:28.640 --> 17:35.200 pack almost fell out? Um, but the way back, um, I was able to track us all the way from Denver, 17:35.840 --> 17:40.960 from Denver to, uh, let's see Minneapolis. I think it was Minneapolis first. 17:41.680 --> 17:48.320 Minneapolis, then Chicago, it was Chicago Minneapolis. Uh, there's my topology for you. 17:50.240 --> 17:57.920 Cleveland and eventually, uh, into New York. Um, and I hadn't really had a chance to 17:58.560 --> 18:03.760 really sit there and listen to air traffic control for, you know, the big guys, uh, because usually 18:03.760 --> 18:09.840 I'm, um, you know, much, much lower altitude. We're talking, like, between, uh, 500 and, uh, and 18:09.840 --> 18:16.640 4,000 feet versus, you know, flight level 35. Oh, it was like 35,000 feet and higher. Uh, but I could, of 18:16.640 --> 18:21.360 course, follow along the knew what they were talking about. And, uh, that was quite enjoyable. Uh, 18:21.360 --> 18:25.520 that made it, especially because Oceans 12 was the movie and I'd already seen that. So, uh, 18:25.520 --> 18:30.160 I was, uh, I was kind of cool just chilling back and just, uh, kind of, uh, flight. It was, 18:30.160 --> 18:33.600 you know what it was? It was basically a sound seeing tour for me. That's what it was. 18:33.600 --> 18:38.880 Shitty quality, of course, on the, uh, in the, in flight entertainment system, but it was a total 18:38.880 --> 18:44.240 sound seeing experience, uh, and I, and I really enjoyed that. I think it was anything funny that I 18:44.240 --> 18:49.200 heard them talking about on the way. Not basically, they were just asking for ride reports, you know, 18:49.200 --> 18:53.360 well, how's the chop, which means any turbulence? And, uh, if there's turbulence, the 18:53.360 --> 18:59.280 pilots will pass that on to air traffic control. And, uh, you know, they can change altitudes accordingly, 18:59.840 --> 19:03.920 uh, to kind of avoid it and make the flight for the passengers that much more enjoyable. 19:05.280 --> 19:08.800 I knew, I know there's something that I'm forgetting to say about, uh, about the flight back. But 19:08.800 --> 19:15.280 anyway, so got in back to LaGuardia, we got in late, completely fried. Uh, so that was the, the first 19:16.800 --> 19:23.280 source code that I wasn't able to be able to cut for the week because of, uh, just total fried 19:23.520 --> 19:29.920 ness. And I wanted to say something about the elevator cast. Um, so the responses that I received to 19:29.920 --> 19:36.160 it, uh, were overwhelmingly positive. Uh, it seems that this theater of the mind and, you know, 19:36.160 --> 19:41.360 what's going to happen next and, and just being there and closing your eyes and listening to, you know, 19:41.360 --> 19:47.360 whatever I was doing or describing as we're going through steps, uh, is very compelling to people. 19:47.360 --> 19:51.600 Uh, and I personally, I'd love to hear lots more sound seeing towards, I love listening to 19:51.600 --> 19:56.720 bicycle mark and, you know, match-wine steering going to target, you know, trips me out. Um, 19:56.720 --> 20:01.920 but some people made some very, a very valid point which I hadn't thought about. Um, it's one 20:01.920 --> 20:07.760 thing I guess to be walking around and have kind of a, a background of noise that you can listen to 20:07.760 --> 20:13.280 and follow along with. It's another thing, well, actually, and also, and I feel that if I'm in an 20:13.280 --> 20:16.960 elevator and, you know, that's a public space and if people are talking to each other while I'm 20:17.040 --> 20:21.280 standing there, then, you know, that's okay. That's a part of background noise and, you know, 20:21.280 --> 20:26.080 if someone just, if we just strike up a conversation, I think that's kind of where maybe I did go a 20:26.080 --> 20:31.440 little bit overboard, uh, because essentially I'm, I'm recording people illegally, uh, or 20:31.440 --> 20:36.480 without their knowledge. And so I talked to, you know, the extra who, um, who was waiting in line 20:36.480 --> 20:45.120 for her shot at, uh, being an extra. Uh, there was the auditions. Uh, on the, the WB, uh, pilot 20:45.120 --> 20:51.360 for, what is it, the new WB show, the prince? That actually isn't very cool, uh, to do that without 20:51.360 --> 20:56.640 someone's consent. Uh, yeah, it's cool to talk and ask people for someone questions and say, 20:56.640 --> 21:00.800 hey, what's going on, but it's, I guess, not cool to, to put that on a podcast. There just really 21:00.800 --> 21:06.480 wasn't thinking about it. So, uh, there's a good point there, and I, and I won't do that, uh, 21:06.480 --> 21:10.640 again, purposely. Now, if I'm just sitting here on the, on the bench, and someone would sit next 21:10.640 --> 21:14.320 to me and strike up a conversation, I think I'd probably talk to him for a couple of minutes before I'd 21:14.400 --> 21:18.800 say, you know, by the way, this is being podcast, uh, but purposely going out probably wasn't okay. 21:18.800 --> 21:22.880 And, and one of two people mentioned it, and, and first I thought, I don't know what's that 21:22.880 --> 21:30.240 shit, man. And then I thought, no, that really is kind of a good point. Although, um, it's happened to 21:30.240 --> 21:38.480 me in another context. I was, um, at the BBC, um, a while back. Remember I did the BBC sound 21:38.480 --> 21:43.120 seeing tour, which I announced I was doing it at that, at that point, so that was cool. And I said, 21:43.120 --> 21:49.920 hey, you know, I'm, I'm recording all of this. And that's, uh, uh, uh, that was for click online. 21:50.800 --> 22:01.200 And, uh, a couple days later, um, uh, the pieces from the interview that I was doing on camera, 22:01.200 --> 22:07.280 showed up in a piece on BBC.com, uh, in a technology piece, which, by the way, I like, I like, 22:07.360 --> 22:12.640 was written. I thought it was pretty funny. Uh, Koso wrote that. He's, uh, from the blog cast, 22:12.640 --> 22:19.760 VLUG. Um, but he didn't tell me that he was going to, you know, because he was basically sitting 22:19.760 --> 22:24.400 next to the camera next to the person interviewing me. Uh, he didn't tell me that that was going 22:24.400 --> 22:29.280 to be written up into an interview as if we had sat down and we're doing an interview. And it was 22:29.280 --> 22:34.240 kind of surprising. Um, and also, and, and the thing that was really surprising to me is that on 22:34.320 --> 22:39.600 camera, um, uh, I was talking about podcasting, you know, a camera, of course, 22:39.600 --> 22:44.320 camera, exactly what the question was. But then I said, as a joke on camera, which is a totally 22:44.320 --> 22:48.960 different context, I say, you know, I really should be knighting for this stuff. And when you, you know, 22:48.960 --> 22:52.880 I was doing it to the camera, you know, doing a play to the audience who would be watching if they 22:52.880 --> 22:56.400 were to use, I don't know if they used that in the, in the, in the, in the, in the piece or not. 22:56.400 --> 23:00.400 But I did that in a very different context than I would have done it with someone who was doing a 23:00.480 --> 23:05.600 written piece. And so when it showed up in writing, I was like, oh, well, that kind of is taking 23:05.600 --> 23:14.000 out of context. So, oops, the trash cart passing by. So it was taking a bit out of context. 23:14.000 --> 23:18.400 And I was surprised. And, you know, and, and I, and I, and I really said, oh, memo to self, you know, 23:18.400 --> 23:23.360 got to be careful about stuff like that because, uh, if you don't know that you're being recorded 23:23.360 --> 23:28.400 in a certain context, it can come across pretty weirdly. And so that really struck home with me 23:28.560 --> 23:32.800 when people said, you know, hey, dude, maybe you shouldn't be recording people without their consent. 23:33.520 --> 23:38.480 Just, I mean, forget the legal standpoint. The ethical standpoint is more important. And I received an email 23:38.480 --> 23:44.960 from Dave Slusher, uh, who pointed out to me as well. And I got a degree. So I appreciate you guys 23:44.960 --> 23:51.200 sent me straight on that one. You're totally right. Okay. So now we're at Friday. Friday we had 23:51.280 --> 23:59.200 planned to kind of spend time in New York. Um, um, we have a relationship with Bear Stearns, 23:59.200 --> 24:04.960 which is a big banking company. Uh, there's, uh, they have a private banking, basically it's people 24:04.960 --> 24:10.960 who who help you spend your money. And, uh, Ron and I are both clients there. And, uh, 24:10.960 --> 24:16.640 it was certainly by no means, you know, the most important clients on the block. But they're very, 24:16.720 --> 24:21.120 very nice to us and set us up with a conference room and facilities whenever we're in towns. 24:21.120 --> 24:26.560 We basically can have an office. Um, and it's, it's so cool. They have, um, you know, of course, 24:26.560 --> 24:33.200 the, you know, banks are basically big, um, databases, you know, that would have database operators. 24:33.200 --> 24:38.400 And those would be the, the traders and people who are using the system. That's what it is. It's all 24:38.400 --> 24:42.560 about systems. And when banks merge, you know, the offices aren't important. It's merging their 24:42.640 --> 24:48.000 incredibly large data systems together, uh, because, you know, there's computations that are 24:48.000 --> 24:51.920 being made. And we did some work at a previous company for bankers trust and the derivatives 24:51.920 --> 24:56.560 division. So I learned a lot about what goes on in banks. And it's, it's all about computers and 24:56.560 --> 25:01.360 data and how fast it can be calculated, computated, how you can apply models and predictions 25:01.360 --> 25:06.720 and it's risk management. Um, so of course, you can't just, you know, jacking to a network there. 25:06.800 --> 25:15.280 And if you think there's no Wi-Fi networks believe me, um, uh, uh, so they have a conference room for us, 25:15.280 --> 25:19.920 which actually has a separate DSL line coming into the building. So it's a very convenient. 25:19.920 --> 25:24.880 Oh, I just remembered what I was going to say about, uh, about our flight from Denver. Um, 25:26.320 --> 25:31.280 it's, it was, it was about security because, you know, it's now still at New York, every single, 25:31.440 --> 25:37.680 office building you walk into, particularly if it, uh, if it has a bank in it, um, there's the equivalent 25:37.680 --> 25:42.160 of airport security that you go through and your pictures take. And interestingly enough, by the 25:42.160 --> 25:47.520 same Logitech setup, you know, that is used when you come into the country. So there was a big sales 25:47.520 --> 25:53.760 job there, man. Someone really made a bunch of dough on, on selling the, uh, the security equipment. 25:53.760 --> 25:59.360 And then, you know, you put your bag through a scanner and, uh, you know, it's all basically, 25:59.440 --> 26:03.440 I think, just for insurance purposes. But I wanted to point out that it is now illegal 26:04.240 --> 26:11.200 to carry a lighter or matches on board of any, uh, US air carrier. Um, and I was, 26:12.880 --> 26:16.800 it's actually, I think it's been illegal to carry matches or lighter in your bag or your check 26:16.800 --> 26:27.360 baggage for the past 30 years. Nice cigar here. Let me get that cranking. Um, but now you 26:27.360 --> 26:31.600 not let allowed to even have one in your pocket, uh, which sucks if you're carrying like a really 26:31.600 --> 26:36.880 nice lighter, uh, because they'll confiscate it. And, uh, you cannot take it on board in any way. 26:36.880 --> 26:41.520 And the reason for this is, uh, the same reason we're taking our shoes off, ladies and gentlemen, 26:41.520 --> 26:47.440 uh, the genesis of the lighters is because of the one guy, uh, and I'm not trying to downplay it, 26:47.440 --> 26:52.960 you know, who tried to set off an explosive device in his shoe. So the way to make it, so apparently 26:53.040 --> 27:00.320 what the transport security TSA has decided is that the way to eliminate that risk besides taking your 27:00.320 --> 27:06.800 shoes off and having those examined is to not allow you to like anything. Uh, which of course makes 27:06.800 --> 27:11.360 sense, but you know, why don't we just, uh, take your fucking grain out, okay? So you can't think 27:11.360 --> 27:14.960 and can't do anything and then just leave all the damn checks to for what it is, you know, 27:14.960 --> 27:19.520 then we don't have to worry about it. It's getting pretty fucking frustrating. And now, uh, 27:19.600 --> 27:25.200 the news reports are that, uh, although we've, you know, we've hired and are paying for 45,000 27:25.200 --> 27:31.200 people at, uh, airport security. Um, we're pretty much not that much more secure than we were before, 27:31.200 --> 27:41.120 yet, duh. Um, um, and, and so now, uh, I think, uh, the administration is saying the solution to 27:41.120 --> 27:48.800 that is to put more technology in place. So again, I'm just for a temporary lobotomy, so that you 27:49.360 --> 27:55.600 can't think or act like a terrorist. I guess that's the best solution. It's pretty fucking tedious. 27:55.600 --> 28:01.920 It really pisses me off. It's a, I just hate being lied to when it's snow job, you know, it's like, 28:01.920 --> 28:08.000 it's marketing and has nothing to do with security. You're not any more safe, um, going through 28:08.000 --> 28:16.800 the current security than you were, you know, 10 years ago. It's just not true. So in once 28:16.800 --> 28:21.120 a do something, there's plenty of ways to do it. And by the way, you can still fly down right through 28:21.120 --> 28:26.160 the New York corridor with, you know, with a lightweight aircraft or an aircraft you want, you know, 28:26.160 --> 28:31.120 you, it's just don't think that just because they're taking your tax dollars and spending it on 28:31.680 --> 28:37.760 people in, uh, in white suits with impressive looking logos that is really any more effective. 28:38.720 --> 28:48.000 So Friday, um, we had a conference room all set up at Bear Stearns and we had Brian, 28:48.960 --> 28:54.400 Brian Longus. He haven't met yet. Brian is doing, doing operations for us at Pod Show. 28:55.840 --> 29:00.320 He lives in DC and he came up. It was a mess because of the trains, you know, the, the high 29:00.320 --> 29:07.760 speed trains apparently have faulty brakes. So they're, uh, checking them all out and that just 29:07.760 --> 29:13.120 really messed up the train systems. He, he was coming in a lot later. And I got, well, first of all, 29:13.120 --> 29:22.160 I got a call from, um, Dave from Rolling Stone Magazine and he wanted to do an interview and I'll tell 29:22.160 --> 29:27.840 you that, uh, Rolling Stone Magazine when they call, you know, he kind of want to make some time 29:28.800 --> 29:34.800 for him. It's, uh, it's an influential publication and I was just delighted to hear that, uh, 29:34.800 --> 29:41.200 that the, the journalist, um, had worked at Sonic Net back in the days when, uh, we were just 29:41.200 --> 29:45.920 starting up on ramp and, uh, we were actually looking at Sonic Net. We were pretty jealous because, 29:45.920 --> 29:49.520 you know, those guys had some great funding and they were doing all kinds of cool content later. 29:49.520 --> 29:55.280 I think that actually was, it was sold to MTV, uh, and we were doing Metaverse.com and the vibe 29:55.360 --> 30:01.120 and cyber sleaze and not making a fricking dime with it. Um, and we essentially, uh, in order to 30:01.120 --> 30:06.800 create a business, started doing things like that, but uh, worked for hire for companies like 30:06.800 --> 30:14.560 Anheuser Bush for Budweiser. We built Budweiser.com and, um, and Reebok.com and did a lot of fun 30:15.440 --> 30:21.040 sites that at the, at the time had a lot of entertainment. It was related to, uh, activities the company 30:21.120 --> 30:26.400 was involved in. So Reebok, you can only imagine, you know, we went to lots of games, interviewed 30:26.400 --> 30:31.760 superstars, like Shaq, for instance, who had signed up with Reebok back then, uh, for Budweiser. 30:31.760 --> 30:36.000 We went to a lot of their sporting events and we did, uh, cyber cast, which meant, you know, 30:36.000 --> 30:41.600 like, see you see me streaming video, audio recordings of, you know, anything we could get our hands on. 30:41.600 --> 30:48.400 And, uh, that was, uh, those were really fun days actually. So he had grown up with, uh, the internet 30:48.400 --> 30:53.920 and, uh, and had witnessed all the, the going commercial part. He's actually written, uh, a book. 30:53.920 --> 30:59.840 Now, forgetting the title, uh, but it's the story about, uh, the guys that id software, 30:59.840 --> 31:05.520 who created Doom and Quake, and now he's writing another book. And, uh, so we, uh, 31:05.520 --> 31:11.040 walked a bit on the streets, uh, talked about, you know, the potential of podcasting, 31:11.040 --> 31:15.920 certainly in relation to music, which I'm getting really excited about, what, what we can do with 31:16.000 --> 31:20.480 pod save music, because the more I'm exposed to what's out there. 31:20.480 --> 31:24.960 New York is a great place to get exposed to all kinds of pod save music, because this is where 31:24.960 --> 31:29.600 people come to try and make it, you know, it's, uh, this is where people are playing in the clubs, 31:29.600 --> 31:35.200 waiting to be discovered. He, uh, pauses you here once in the while, it's been taking a 31:35.200 --> 31:40.880 sip of coffee or a choke on the sea guard. 31 minutes into this. I'm going to try and keep it at 31:40.880 --> 31:49.760 40. Uh, and I, uh, I kind of squeezed him in because I received a call when I got in, uh, 31:49.760 --> 31:55.200 late Thursday night from Denver. There was a call on my voicemail from a music industry legend, 31:56.400 --> 32:01.280 his name is Harvey Leeds. And if you've heard us talk about the Ken Clark and I on the MTV 32:01.280 --> 32:06.800 Chronicles, heard us talk about, uh, Steve Leeds at MTV. Harvey is his brother, and Harvey has been 32:06.880 --> 32:13.280 an epic, uh, which is now Sony records or epic Sony records for 30 years. Um, he was there at the, 32:13.280 --> 32:18.320 the very beginning of MTV, you know, when, you know, when no one knew how to promote a video, 32:18.320 --> 32:23.440 promote a band through a video. He's always been, uh, in the promotion part of the record industry. 32:24.880 --> 32:30.080 And he's, uh, he's just, he's a great guy to know. I mean, he's extremely well-loved, extremely 32:30.080 --> 32:35.200 connected. Um, he knows how to, you know, and he loves the music, you know, he'll, he'll fly a million 32:35.200 --> 32:41.200 miles in the baggage space of an airplane just to see a band play that he really believes in and 32:41.200 --> 32:46.880 and he'll promote the heck out of him. He, he does a great job with that. Um, and he, uh, called me and 32:46.880 --> 32:53.040 he said, you know, I don't want to talk about podcasting, you know, can you? He, come on over. And 32:53.040 --> 32:59.440 come on over means he invited Ron and I to lunch in the Sony club, which is, this is kind of funny. 32:59.440 --> 33:04.800 This is on the, oh god, I don't know, it's what it's like, the 40th or 50th floor of the Sony building 33:04.880 --> 33:13.680 it's 55th and, uh, a Madison. And it's a, um, what kind of, it's kind of like an observation deck, 33:13.680 --> 33:19.680 only it's one big restaurant with multiple rooms. And it's only for, uh, the big, important meetings. 33:19.680 --> 33:23.760 It's, yeah, every band has this as well. It's, you know, when, when either just before you're about 33:23.760 --> 33:28.560 to sign the big artist or if you want to celebrate or, you know, if anyone's doing a big deal, 33:28.560 --> 33:32.000 then you take him up to the Sony club, that is if you have enough pull, right? If you got the 33:32.000 --> 33:38.640 juice of the cloud to, to, to be allowed to eat up in the Sony club, uh, then you, uh, then you go up there 33:38.640 --> 33:43.520 and it's very classy and chic. And I've been there, I was there 10 years ago, I think with Sony, 33:44.160 --> 33:49.280 it was that it was the hardware division. I'm not quite sure why, but I was invited up there, 33:49.280 --> 33:54.160 you know, personal waiters and butlers and, you know, everything's just right in the food is, you know, 33:54.160 --> 33:59.040 prepared personally and there's all different types of kitchens and and cuisines and you name it. 33:59.600 --> 34:05.600 It's impressive. And it's fun, you know, it's fun to do that because you can, when you're up there, 34:05.600 --> 34:13.440 you look out the south side and you can almost reach out to David Copperfield's three-story penthouse 34:13.440 --> 34:20.960 apartment, you know, we can basically see him walking up and down his own house. That's kind of 34:20.960 --> 34:26.480 funny. I don't know, the wind is picking up a little bit. And Harvey totally has the juice, you know, 34:26.480 --> 34:31.680 you can, uh, everyone is like, hey, Harvey, how you doing? The waiter is, hey, Harvey, how are you? 34:31.680 --> 34:36.800 Usually table Harvey, you're like your usual iced tea, Harvey, you know, and as I said, you know, 34:36.800 --> 34:42.320 if you can be in the industry that long, certainly at one company and he's worked with every single 34:42.320 --> 34:47.200 artist you can you can think of and he knows them all personally and he has this little kind of like 34:47.200 --> 34:53.600 cubby hole of an office, but it's just it's a shrine to 30 years of music history piled up all over the 34:53.680 --> 34:58.640 place and I'm sure he has five times that size somewhere stored away, he just filled with crap that 34:58.640 --> 35:05.440 that he can't put in his current configuration. And I'm trying to think which part of the story I want 35:05.440 --> 35:11.360 to tell first. Yeah, well, so basically what he wanted and the meeting was not just with Harvey, 35:11.360 --> 35:21.760 it was also with the vice president of new media and his name is Corey, Corey Luellen. Yeah, 35:21.760 --> 35:27.760 vice president of Epic Records, New Media, that's just getting his business card here. 35:29.360 --> 35:35.200 And what it is is, Harvey was saying, you know, dude, I've been listening to these podcasts. 35:36.240 --> 35:42.080 I want to podcast, you know, I want to like promote and there he is, right, Harvey promoting stuff, 35:42.080 --> 35:46.400 you know, he's he's they're all these records that have to people that so many probably don't 35:46.400 --> 35:49.680 even know these signed these artists, you know, and he's like, I kind of want to promote and 35:49.680 --> 35:55.360 want people to catch your buzz. You know, Harvey is the guy that when he has new band he wants to promote 35:55.360 --> 36:00.640 and one way to do that is through getting them out in front of public, you know, get them playing 36:00.640 --> 36:07.440 for people. Then, you know, if he finds out whichever act is performing somewhere and he'll basically 36:07.440 --> 36:14.160 beg and plead and do whatever to get one of the newer acts to open up for the successful big act. 36:15.120 --> 36:21.760 And it was pretty interesting because he isn't the kind of guy that's thinking about lawyers and, 36:21.760 --> 36:28.240 you know, RIA, even though he is essential part of that wheel, he just wants to get good music out there. 36:29.040 --> 36:36.080 And we went through a couple scenarios and we talked about, you know, why not a lot of RIA 36:36.080 --> 36:40.160 music is being played on podcast. And we can't put a couple of really interesting ideas, 36:40.160 --> 36:44.720 some of which would have landed us both in jail and made us beautiful cellmates. I should 36:44.720 --> 36:50.640 anyone decide to come down on us. We also can't put some really good ideas of ways to promote 36:50.640 --> 36:57.280 basically pod safe music and, you know, some other ways to create sign-off and put some 36:58.240 --> 37:03.920 and basically trying to create ways to make some or as much as possible, 37:04.880 --> 37:10.160 available for use in podcasting. It really is just a just a question of legality. 37:12.160 --> 37:16.240 Which is the same I learned for satellite radio. Here's something I learned. 37:16.240 --> 37:21.440 Satellite radios, although not entirely regulated the way it's restory or radio is regulated, 37:22.240 --> 37:27.200 does have to adhere to the digital millennium copyright act. And part of the stipulation of the 37:27.200 --> 37:33.200 digital millennium copyright act because it does involve digital streams and downloading or a version 37:33.280 --> 37:38.720 of downloading from digitally digital copies. Let's put it that way. It's that you cannot, 37:38.720 --> 37:45.360 on satellite radio, you cannot play more than two tracks by one artist or I think from the same 37:45.360 --> 37:52.560 album after each other. So there has to be a separation there of, I don't know exactly what the 37:52.560 --> 37:58.560 separation is. It's hours or channels or whatever, because then essentially the theory is that if 37:58.640 --> 38:04.400 you didn't do that, you could cobble together the entire CD, which of course is ludicrous. 38:05.600 --> 38:10.880 I'm sure people could do it, but who the heck is doing that? Some, maybe, all, probably not. 38:12.480 --> 38:19.040 And so there's, you know, if you want to do like the, what should we say? If you want to do the 38:19.040 --> 38:24.000 Bruce Springsteen tribute hour or Bruce Springsteen's coming out with a new record and you want to 38:24.080 --> 38:29.680 cut up an interview with Bruce Springsteen with, with tracks with a new record, it's either you 38:29.680 --> 38:35.120 can't do it or you have to get an actual sign off for each individual project and Harvey is one 38:35.120 --> 38:43.920 of the people who can sign off. So we had a lovely lunch. They had pineapple slushies just perfect. 38:43.920 --> 38:50.320 We sat in a nice, you know, curved little booth and a couple of observations. First of all, 38:51.280 --> 38:59.120 the lobby downstairs. So you have the Sony lobby, which is, I don't know, it's, you have the public 38:59.120 --> 39:03.520 space down in the Sony building. You get up in one elevator bank that only goes to the Sony 39:03.520 --> 39:08.240 music lobby and that's basically where you enter into the Sony music realm and you have to 39:08.240 --> 39:14.240 check in and, you know, it's a security check once again. And the elevator doors open and it 39:14.320 --> 39:20.720 looks like a hip hop convention. There must be 15 different hip hop groups. Some of them 39:20.720 --> 39:30.960 cutting a video, others just walking around with cell phones. It was a madhouse essentially and 39:30.960 --> 39:37.120 everyone had to wait in line for their name to be taken down and it's like four or five reception 39:37.120 --> 39:40.960 is just, you know, going out at all the time and then they have to call up and the way they're 39:40.960 --> 39:44.480 doing it because it was, you know, just so crowded and like everybody was there. It seemed like 39:44.480 --> 39:48.720 everyone there had a record deal, it was cutting a record deal or it was going to be the next p-ditty. 39:51.920 --> 39:56.080 You know, it took a while and what they do is they take down your name and then you wait and 39:56.080 --> 39:59.840 then they call out your name really loudly and then you pick up your badge and then you can go through. 40:00.640 --> 40:05.840 And it's a madhouse and we're like it's exactly one o'clock and so I call up to Harvey's office and 40:05.840 --> 40:10.160 talk to his lovely assistant and I said, you know, we're down in the lobby, it's a madhouse so 40:10.240 --> 40:14.400 we're going to probably about 10 minutes late just let, you know. And Simon LeBon is standing right 40:14.400 --> 40:19.280 in front of me, Simon from LeBon from Duran Duran who on Wednesday night I think sold out the garden 40:19.280 --> 40:25.600 completely sold it out for a concert and he's standing there just like like us two Joe Shmoans 40:26.800 --> 40:30.400 waiting in line and you know, the guy says, okay, what's your name? It's his Simon LeBon. 40:31.520 --> 40:36.320 You had a picture ID and he says, no, I don't, you know, because, you know, maybe he didn't, you know, 40:36.800 --> 40:41.280 in Europe, you don't have pictures on your driver's licenses and I don't, I guess he didn't have his passport with him. 40:41.280 --> 40:46.560 I've learned now to carry my passport with me and, you know, and then so he's waiting and Simon, 40:46.560 --> 40:51.120 you can just see he's like, oh man, he's getting impatient, but he's taken it with great stride, 40:51.120 --> 40:55.840 but it's not like the old days, you know, where you'd have a real vibe and it was cool music playing 40:55.840 --> 41:00.400 when you come into a record company and, you know, people were zigging and zagging and getting 41:00.400 --> 41:06.000 shit done and now it's just like this huge corporate marble piece of shit structure and he's 41:06.000 --> 41:11.920 Simon LeBon, you know, and he's a, to me, he's still a superstar and he's being treated just with 41:11.920 --> 41:19.600 as much disrespect as the rest and then they call out his name Simon LeBon so he could pick up his 41:19.600 --> 41:26.880 past to get in and then Harvey's assistant came down and actually got us and walked us through 41:26.880 --> 41:32.640 as that was kind of cool, I got a better treatment than Simon LeBon, so that was one thing 41:32.640 --> 41:37.280 that I noticed right there, I'm like, you know, man, this is really weird, you know, this is not 41:37.280 --> 41:41.520 the type of image you want to project of a hip swing and company that knows what it's doing 41:41.520 --> 41:45.920 and is really going to, you know, is on the cutting edge of music, take another sip. 41:49.360 --> 41:55.520 And as we were upstairs, I always, first went to his office who went up to the Sony club, I noticed 41:55.520 --> 42:01.840 that the Sony club is fraying at the edges, my friends, it no longer, the other carpet isn't 42:01.840 --> 42:08.880 well, the carpet's probably 15 years old by that this point, it's fraying, you know, it's just, 42:08.880 --> 42:16.400 it's not as, they had, you know, it's decaying, it's slowly decaying and we were the only guys in there 42:16.400 --> 42:23.040 that were talking about music, all the other tables were lawyers and, you know, the discussion 42:23.040 --> 42:27.040 invariably at points is we're talking, then Harvey would lower his voice and say, you know, 42:27.040 --> 42:31.920 the lawyers, because that's the culture of these places now, everything is being run by lawyers who are 42:31.920 --> 42:38.160 just trying to figure out who can get the most money from each little piece of music and it hit me 42:38.160 --> 42:44.000 then that these record companies, they're already, they understand the long-tail concept and they're 42:44.000 --> 42:48.400 already applying it, you know what, hold on a second, I want to, the spot where I'm sitting right now 42:49.040 --> 42:56.160 is now longer in the sun, so let me just move over two benches to get in the sun like, hold on 42:58.880 --> 43:04.000 all the benches, by the way, have placards on and we'll read a couple of them to you, 43:04.000 --> 43:10.880 a memory of Benjamin and Estelle Wachtell for Carol E. Holtzmann, in celebration of her 80th birthday 43:10.880 --> 43:19.520 with love from her grandchildren, Brooke Alexandra Jackman, a shining star with a radiant smile, 43:19.520 --> 43:25.760 compassionate, intelligent and beautiful, always loved the joy of our lives, didn't live very long, 43:26.480 --> 43:38.000 82878, of course 9101, wow just hit me when I saw the date, let's sit on this one, shall we? 43:38.240 --> 43:48.880 Wow, I just got a chill, I didn't recognize the 9101 because European date would be 11901, 43:52.480 --> 43:57.680 quick reflection there people, okay, so now we're sitting back in the sunshine, 43:59.680 --> 44:01.520 I was talking about the long-tail concept, 44:01.760 --> 44:09.840 the record companies, at least this one, I presume the other three at this point, whatever it is, 44:11.280 --> 44:16.080 they're totally applying the long-tail concept, what they're doing is they're just, you know, 44:16.080 --> 44:20.880 and so the long-tail concept is, you know, you can have, let's say, one record that will sell 44:20.880 --> 44:27.840 10 million copies, doesn't happen that often anymore, or you can have 10 records that sell a million 44:28.400 --> 44:32.880 and that's what the record companies are doing, they're just signing up hip-hop groups for 44:32.880 --> 44:37.200 predominantly, I think, or at least that's what I saw on the lobby, left and right, given 44:37.200 --> 44:41.520 him shitty deals, you know, the first deal is always shitty when it comes to record companies, 44:41.520 --> 44:46.000 you get nothing, you'll wind up with nothing, you might get a little advance, you can go buy some 44:46.000 --> 44:52.160 bling, but that's pretty much it, and they just pump them out, you know, and each one, if they 44:52.160 --> 44:57.520 can sell 100,000 copies, that's a million bucks, you know, and they just keep cranking it out and 44:57.520 --> 45:03.920 cranking it out, and what they've done very successfully, which seems unethical, and you could argue 45:03.920 --> 45:10.560 about that, is they've just set it up so that if there's no more sales, you drop them, just drop 45:10.560 --> 45:15.840 it like it's hot, drop it like it's hot, and you get rid of it, and then just let them disintegrate 45:15.840 --> 45:18.960 into nothing, you know, that's what the record business has been really good at, because the 45:18.960 --> 45:24.080 record business is all about contracts and laws, et cetera, and a little bit about the creativity, 45:25.120 --> 45:28.960 and so that's what's going on there, you know, while the big guys are upstairs fighting about 45:28.960 --> 45:33.520 every single penny and trying to squeeze blood from a stone and, and therefore, hampering the 45:33.520 --> 45:39.040 distribution of music and hampering, in our case, the discovery of music, that's what podcasting 45:39.040 --> 45:45.840 is bringing, I think, is ways to discover new talent, discover new artists, new music, new creative 45:45.920 --> 45:53.680 people, that's being stifled, and then doing that themselves, and bully for them, you know, 45:53.680 --> 46:00.800 let them do whatever the heck they want. Harvey is, of course, the guy who gave me four CDs of 46:00.800 --> 46:10.000 new stuff that no one has ever heard of, particularly sushi su is a name of a girl, I think it's a 46:10.080 --> 46:15.680 girl or a group who he's, he's really nuts about, and he has given me the personal Harvey 46:15.680 --> 46:21.760 leads permission to play that on the podcast, so I'm going to do that when I get back to the cottage, 46:21.760 --> 46:24.880 I'm going to listen to the CDs, and if I like it, I certainly will play it. 46:29.120 --> 46:39.440 46 minutes, let's start wrapping this up. So here's what I learned with all the meetings, and we've 46:39.520 --> 46:44.000 done, you know, I can't just can't even physically tell you about everything because it's just so much. 46:44.000 --> 46:49.360 First of all, New York is great, New York is kicking, New York is alive, and people are, 46:51.280 --> 46:58.240 to me, people are just here to get shit done, they're excited, everyone's trying to help each other 46:58.240 --> 47:02.560 in business, that's always kind of been that way, New York, but to me it feels like this city is 47:02.560 --> 47:11.600 really bounce back. I hooked up with Rick Kalman, the audio guy at MTV was my first, 47:11.600 --> 47:16.320 our Patricia and my, our first friend in New York, he was the guy that when we actually started 47:16.320 --> 47:20.000 on the same day, I think at MTV, he started doing audio, and I started, of course, on air, 47:20.640 --> 47:25.360 and but he'd been in New York for a while doing radio, and doing all kinds of various types of 47:25.360 --> 47:28.800 jobs, and he was the first one that said, hey, come on, let's go out to dinner and he took us to a 47:28.800 --> 47:33.040 show, which was simply what I think was playing at the Beacon Theatre, and he was just nice and 47:33.040 --> 47:40.080 been friends for almost 20 years now, and we lose touch, and then we hook up again, and he came 47:40.080 --> 47:47.040 over last night, and we were talking about podcasting, and actually, of course, I said, Rick, 47:47.040 --> 47:52.080 he hooked me up, you know, I haven't had anything to smoke in like a week, and he said, 47:52.080 --> 48:00.480 no, he's now working for Division of the New Jersey Police, where, of course, he has some 48:00.480 --> 48:05.920 tests that he has to take regularly, so he doesn't smoke anymore, but he invited one of 48:05.920 --> 48:12.080 two of his friends over who were kind enough to bring some of the holy herb along with them, 48:12.160 --> 48:22.800 and one of them was a musician, a nice girl, Shelly, and did I say that right? 48:25.200 --> 48:34.640 I'm spacing on the names, and she was showing me where she has her music uploaded on her 48:34.720 --> 48:42.480 myspaces.com, they called a weblog, it's kind of a weblog, or you can set it up as a weblog, 48:43.360 --> 48:46.480 and that's kind of her community, that's where she gets gigs from, it's how she hooks up 48:46.480 --> 48:51.360 with other musicians, she produces and records all her stuff at home, it was a nice fire trek, 48:51.360 --> 49:00.560 truck going by the park with a police siren, and we were, you know, there's like three people 49:00.560 --> 49:04.000 in the room, and we're just hanging out, it was very much the American party, you know, 49:04.000 --> 49:09.280 like, you got a bottle of coke, you got some potato chips, yeah, we got a party, and we're just chilling, 49:09.280 --> 49:14.640 and we're talking, and we're hanging out, and we talked about podcasting, and everyone had read about 49:14.640 --> 49:19.280 or heard about it, but really hadn't heard of podcast, and so I played a couple of four, 49:19.840 --> 49:24.560 I played a bit of East Radio, played a daily download, played some digital slots, some 49:25.200 --> 49:30.480 Catholic insider, you know, I tried to do a nice mix of, as an example of all kinds of different 49:30.480 --> 49:36.800 stuff, and of course, they were blown away and just loving every single moment of these podcasts, 49:38.240 --> 49:45.920 and that's one of the things I really learned while educating people about podcasting, 49:48.000 --> 49:52.960 because that's a big part of what I'm still doing is, you know, teaching people 49:53.840 --> 49:58.160 within the business community, you know, what it is, how it works, where it's going, what the 49:58.160 --> 50:04.080 potential is, what can be done with it, you know, and that varies from, as we've talked about, 50:04.080 --> 50:10.640 from the educational system to advertisers. It's the same thing I did 10 years ago, and that's 50:10.640 --> 50:14.560 exactly the same thing, so then it was like, you know, people said, what's this internet thing, 50:14.560 --> 50:18.960 and now they've kind of got that, and they know what an MP3 player is, or at least an iPod, 50:18.960 --> 50:26.560 and so in explaining this, again, I'm realizing that we are not by a long shot doing enough 50:26.640 --> 50:33.200 to get people listening. All of this talk, all of these, you know, tools that are being put out there, 50:33.200 --> 50:39.040 is really for podcasts, there's, and for people who are already podcasting, and maybe for people 50:39.040 --> 50:46.480 who have a real drive to podcast, but want a better tool, what is not being done, and this is, 50:46.480 --> 50:53.840 of course, going to be the part of the secret sauce of podshow.com, is people are not helping, 50:53.920 --> 50:58.400 the listener, people need to learn how to tune into these things. You know, for me, 50:59.840 --> 51:05.120 my contribution to podcasting, or what is now called podcasting, was really creating, 51:05.120 --> 51:09.920 you know, the radio receiver portion, making the experience seamless. You know, 51:09.920 --> 51:16.320 people that have been recording programs, call them radio programs, or audio blogs, or whatever, 51:16.320 --> 51:22.720 and putting them up on the web on HTTP servers for years and years and years, people have been 51:22.800 --> 51:29.760 attaching those to RSS files ever since Dave Weiner and I met, and he created the enclosure 51:29.760 --> 51:38.880 element in RSS 2.0. You know, that's been done, but what really made it happen, or at least what 51:38.880 --> 51:45.120 was the spark, I think, was the magical part, and I still call it magic, and I intended it to be magic. 51:45.120 --> 51:49.120 That's why my original iPod, or when I wrote it, was invisible, it was a script, you know, 51:49.120 --> 51:54.000 ran in the background, there was no player, no playlists, no organizational tool, it was just, 51:54.000 --> 52:00.560 you know, just go download this and put it on my iPod. That was the magical step, was removing, 52:00.560 --> 52:09.360 eliminating the waiting part, or any intervention, which gives it the illusion of a radio, 52:09.360 --> 52:13.920 a transistor radio that you pick up except the differences, you know, you don't have to 52:13.920 --> 52:18.240 tune in to find something, or, you know, or tune in at a certain time to listen to something 52:18.320 --> 52:23.760 that you want to, you know, you have the control there, your fingertips, and within a very 52:23.760 --> 52:29.200 short amount of time what I'm noticing is that it's gone beyond the MP3 player. It's beyond the box. 52:29.200 --> 52:34.240 People are hooked on the shows, on the content, on the creativity. That's what's going on, 52:34.240 --> 52:38.240 but we need to help more people learn how to listen, so when it comes to 52:39.760 --> 52:46.160 subscribing to a feed, it's still way too difficult. We have to do a hell of a lot more to help 52:46.240 --> 52:52.640 people learn how to receive and listen. We have to help listeners. We have to grow the listening 52:52.640 --> 52:57.680 audience, and I think there's ways to do it that go beyond the organic nature of it. 52:58.960 --> 53:03.040 Particularly because there's so many different ways that you can enjoy great audio. 53:03.840 --> 53:07.280 You could, you could buy it from audible, if you wish, you could, you know, that's a 53:07.280 --> 53:11.760 service that people know how to use, you know, that's a reasonably simple system. 53:12.720 --> 53:16.640 You should be able to get it from the iTunes music store. I'm not saying that you should have to buy it, 53:16.640 --> 53:19.600 you know, that's the business part of it. I'm just talking about the ease of use. 53:20.880 --> 53:27.680 It would be the most beautiful way is if you had an MP3 player that had everything built in and you 53:27.680 --> 53:32.240 just, you know, click and select and you don't have to do any cutting and pasting and, you know, 53:32.240 --> 53:38.480 or if there's a, you know, if you want to subscribe to a show, you use a barcode scanner. I don't 53:38.480 --> 53:41.840 know what the hell it is, but there's a million more ways to make this easy, because I think for 53:41.840 --> 53:46.560 every one person that is subscribed to a podcast and listening to it and enjoying it, there's 53:46.560 --> 53:53.520 10 that have fallen off the edge and have not figured out how to do it. Mainly because of it's still 53:53.520 --> 53:58.960 unclear, you know, and it's what's this little, why don't orange XML icon? Yeah, there's millions 53:58.960 --> 54:02.080 of people who understand what it is, but there's hundreds of millions who don't. 54:03.040 --> 54:10.800 So, part of the, the overall mission of podshow.com will be for listeners. In fact, 54:10.800 --> 54:17.200 our slogan is going to be, stick it in your ear and we're about making it easier for people 54:17.200 --> 54:23.120 to find the shows that want to listen to and actually listen to them and no matter where they 54:23.120 --> 54:28.640 are, no matter what system they have and there's going to be a lot of promotion in that and 54:28.640 --> 54:35.280 a lot of marketing and getting podcasters exposure. That's the way, you know, that's, that's the 54:35.280 --> 54:42.720 words with any of these kids are cute chasing their mom with little sticks. So cute. 54:44.000 --> 54:49.840 Oh, maybe it's their nanny who knows. So that's an important part of the mission of podshow.com, 54:49.840 --> 54:53.840 and that's what Ron and I were going to talk about in a strategy cast today, but that's going to 54:53.840 --> 54:58.320 have to wait until next week when I'm back in the UK at the cottage and we'll get on Skype, 54:58.320 --> 55:04.880 because that is one of the things we promised each other to do. It's definitely keep podcasting 55:04.880 --> 55:12.240 between the two of us so we can, you know, shit, how can you run a podcasting company in whatever 55:12.240 --> 55:18.960 sense of the word it is without, you know, podcasting yourself. So I hope everyone with an 55:18.960 --> 55:23.520 or company will be a podcaster or will do some form of podcasting. And of course, that doesn't 55:23.600 --> 55:29.520 have to be the salilicoid that I've done now for the past 55 minutes, which is way over my budgeted 55:29.520 --> 55:36.640 time. But then again, hey, Dougie, how are you Dougie? That's German Shepherd. That's way over my, 55:36.640 --> 55:42.400 my budgeted time for a daily source code. But of course, it's the weekend. So what the hey? 55:45.120 --> 55:52.400 Okay, so that will be my final thought for the day. It's 55:53.600 --> 56:00.320 as if on Q, let's probably run hold on. No, it's not wrong. Okay, another call. 56:01.840 --> 56:08.000 I'm going to wrap this up. It's been great in New York. I'm going to be back pretty soon. 56:08.000 --> 56:15.280 We're going to sit here. Actually, I'm going to be back in at the cottage for at least a couple 56:15.360 --> 56:24.160 weeks. Patricia is, see, she's going to be away May 12, 15th. I think 12th of the 15th. She's going 56:24.160 --> 56:30.160 to 3-8 trip to the south of France. So of course, I'll be home with Christina for that. This week, 56:30.160 --> 56:34.560 I believe, with a little bit of luck, if the weather holds out, the wing commander is picking me up 56:36.400 --> 56:41.600 at Therrokes, which is about 15 minutes from the cottage, with the, with the Sess No 182RG, 56:42.080 --> 56:47.040 we're going to do two days of training. I'm going to fly on Tuesday. We'll make a channel crossing. 56:47.680 --> 56:52.640 I'm going to stay overnight and then we'll do more training on Wednesday and then fly back. So 56:52.640 --> 56:59.360 that'll be just a little bit of relaxation. Get my mind off of, get my mind off of podcasting and 56:59.360 --> 57:05.920 work and the world the issues for a little while and just chill. And we'll be announcing some 57:05.920 --> 57:12.960 of the exciting deals that we've put together. Great ways for people to tune into podcast, 57:12.960 --> 57:18.480 to find podcasts, to listen to them, to really build some more momentum and excitement. Because I 57:18.480 --> 57:23.440 do see that still as my mission as a part of what we've created here in the podcast and community. 57:24.480 --> 57:29.360 So now we've, we've all got shows and we're creating and we're tracking probably about almost 57:29.360 --> 57:37.920 5,000 now at iPod.org. Popularity is going nuts. Popularity voting on podcast alley in other places 57:37.920 --> 57:44.720 like that. It's just phenomenal. But we have to expose this to more people and make it simpler for them 57:44.720 --> 57:50.880 to find out about podcasting and listen to podcasts and sample podcasts and and start to understand 57:50.880 --> 57:55.360 what it is and evangelize. Another part of that is meetup.com. That's another great place but 57:55.360 --> 58:00.640 shouldn't just be for podcasters. It should also be for people interested in podcasting and finding 58:00.640 --> 58:07.040 out what it is and listening and finding out how they can participate. That's, and I think that's 58:07.040 --> 58:13.840 really the way it goes. Because I asked the girl last night who was at our little party 58:14.400 --> 58:19.040 saying, okay, so you have myspaces.com, how do you find people? She says, well really, you just 58:19.040 --> 58:24.800 usually, you, you, someone tells you about it, you look at their myspaces, weblog. And this is the 58:24.800 --> 58:29.920 way it goes in weblogging, right? And then, you know, you'll join as a friend. So that's kind of 58:29.920 --> 58:35.360 the social networking aspect of it. You'll join with your own weblog. And then, you know, you'll 58:35.360 --> 58:38.880 find more people and people will find you. And it's how they find you. Well, usually buy your 58:38.880 --> 58:43.120 picture. You know, so everyone has beautiful pictures of themselves and sexy pictures and you click 58:43.120 --> 58:46.880 on it and then you hear their music and then you get information about them and you see more 58:46.880 --> 58:50.480 friends there. So that's kind of the viral aspect of it. And that's how it should be going with 58:50.480 --> 58:57.200 podcasting. And it could not only can't work, but it is working. It's just we have to make more 58:57.200 --> 59:05.040 of that available. And that's not just going to be tools and, you know, create, listen, synchronize, 59:05.040 --> 59:10.560 you know, that's not it. That is part of it, but that's more for people who are already podcasting 59:10.560 --> 59:15.120 and already in this medium that we're trying to build. And remember, we're still building this. 59:15.120 --> 59:21.600 So if that means, it's funny because Dave Winner is written on scripting news and had heard 59:21.600 --> 59:26.960 him say it in a podcast recently that the quote is, Adam Curry has sold out to the dark side. 59:27.840 --> 59:30.960 And I'm not quite sure what he means. I haven't sold anything out. 59:31.840 --> 59:37.680 That I'm not quite sure if you split that up sold out. I mean, that's like an artist and musician 59:37.680 --> 59:43.280 selling out, which basically means going commercial. And the dark side, I'm not quite sure what the 59:43.280 --> 59:50.560 dark side means for Dave Winner probably means mainstream media. So I'm not, you know, my action 59:50.560 --> 59:55.600 so far, I don't think have shown any selling out of anything. Certainly not anything we've announced. 59:55.600 --> 01:00:02.240 And I don't know what the dark side is. I don't know. Is the dark side Microsoft? You know, 01:00:02.240 --> 01:00:08.640 I don't think so. I think the people of Microsoft are very intelligent and are very smart. 01:00:08.640 --> 01:00:12.560 And you know, is that the big record business? No, I don't think so. That's Harvey League, you know, 01:00:12.560 --> 01:00:18.320 guys who would actually love to podcast themselves and are trying to make it so that we can use 01:00:18.320 --> 01:00:25.760 RIA music. These are all just people. You know, I think that's, you know what, if something 01:00:25.760 --> 01:00:30.800 Dave sent me in a private email once, he said, why do you take it up the ass from the mainstream media? 01:00:31.360 --> 01:00:35.280 And because, you know, I do a lot of interviews when someone wants to, and actually haven't 01:00:35.360 --> 01:00:40.720 done a lot of them recently, I've been rejecting a lot or not even responding really to the emails 01:00:40.720 --> 01:00:45.120 for requests because just I don't have enough time in the day to even go through my regular email, 01:00:45.120 --> 01:00:49.440 let alone all these requests. So I try to fish out ones that I think will be beneficial. We'll get 01:00:49.440 --> 01:00:54.320 the word out there, get people understanding how cool it is and how you can tune in and how you can 01:00:54.320 --> 01:00:58.480 listen and what you can expect and what you can get. And if that's selling out to the dark side, 01:00:58.480 --> 01:01:04.640 my friends, then so be it. I'm proud to be doing it. So this has been the daily source code for 01:01:04.720 --> 01:01:14.160 April 16th Saturday in the park. That's a great tune by Chicago. I'll have to play that when I get 01:01:14.160 --> 01:01:21.120 back to the cottage. Atimentcurry.com is where you can send your responses, where you can check out my 01:01:21.120 --> 01:01:27.520 weblog at www.curry.com. And daily source code.com is where you can pick up the podcast feed to 01:01:27.520 --> 01:01:31.680 subscribe to this show when you can always find the latest one to listen to it right from your 01:01:31.680 --> 01:01:38.240 computer or the archives. Take care everybody. Next time we speak, I'll be back at the cottage. Bye-bye.