WEBVTT

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Delta Sierra Charlie 34-0.

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The $60 million worth of
airplane strapped to my ass.

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The next generation radio
content in my ears.

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I like to think I'm flying into
the future.

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Fantastic, it's a battle curry.

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Hey everybody, it is time for
the Charlie.

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Some different today.

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You've probably read somewhere
in a newspaper or more likely
you've seen on television.

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The bird flu is coming.

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But I don't know much about it.

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I was lucky enough to find out
that our investors are one of
our investors in pod show and

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smaller burkins.

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Can tell us a lot more about it
and are actually doing something
about it.

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So I thought I'd share that
today with you on the source
code.

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And we're going to get to that.

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Well right after we hear from
our friends over, or a think of
course.

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Joining the conversation on the
Charlie now

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is bookbires.

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The B in cleaner perkins.

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Callfield and buyers.

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And Dr. Beth Sidenberg of
Biocrist Pharmaceuticals.

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Both are on the board of
directors of the pandemic
preparedness and bio defense
fund, which

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was announced last week.

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I thank you both for taking the
time to talk about this.

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So I was in New York last week.

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And I read the announcement in
New York Times.

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And it blew me away.

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Mainly because all of a sudden
this thing became real for me.

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We're talking specifically about
avian flu or the bird flu.

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Here's a group of very smart
people who I guess believe that
something is probably going

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to happen or it's inevitable and
putting their money where the
mouth is so to speak.

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Maybe I should start with Brooke
with you.

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Can you just explain, what
exactly?

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This is a $200 million fund.

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What does that mean?

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Is there already?

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Is there $200 million that you
are now starting to invest?

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Does this money already exist?

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How exactly does that work?

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What is an investment fund, I
guess, is what I'm asking?

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Sure, Adam.

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So yes, our firm,
client-approved, and call to the
buyers, is a venture capital
firm based

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in Manlo Park, California.

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And we have raised and completed
that process.

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$200 million fund specifically
targeted toward what we call
pandemic preparedness
innovation.

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And the reason we're doing this
is to call attention to the
severity of the problem.

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And our belief that more
attention needs to be paid to
innovation gaps in preparing for

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pandemic pathogens and global
public health issues.

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And by innovation gaps, what we
mean are vaccine, any viral, and
diagnostic products that are
needed

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by the world that are just not
getting developed quickly
enough.

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So this is the thing that almost
troubles me when I think about
this.

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And clearly when you get into
the business of investing, other
people's money as well into this
area,

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that means that you are
expecting this to work.

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I presume that that's kind of
funny.

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Will the fund be successful if
the flu actually breaks out, or
if we actually need something,

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or am I seeing that a little too
short-sighted there?

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Well, the innovations that are
needed in vaccines, any viral
drugs and diagnostics,

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are ones that are platform
technologies.

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So we hope a pandemic never
happens, even a mild one.

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If it does, the world is going
to need these innovative
products to make it as less
severe as possible.

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If a pandemic does not occur,
these kinds of innovations,
these kind of products,

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can be applied to other
infectious diseases as well.

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And it's very fortuitous for our
firm that last spring, Dr.
Bestseinberg joined us as a
partner here at

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Clienter Procus, Coffield and
Buyers.

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And she brings the background of
25 years of product development
experience at the

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National Institutes of Health,
Mer, Crystal Myers, and Amgen.

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And so Beth, one or two come in
on this.

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Okay, great. Thank you, Brooke.

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Yeah, Adam, I think that it's
important for us to recognize
that influenza is a great
example of what we call emerging

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or an emergent infectious
disease, meaning something that
occurs and can change on an
annual basis

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and create disease in millions
of people.

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In order to really understand
the disease that's developing,

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you need to be able to see it
coming in the environment, you
know,

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so in a specific country, be
able to diagnose it with rapid
tools and then treat it and
prevent it.

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And technology needs to be
flexible, needs to be able to be
applied quickly,

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and made available to people
around the world.

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And flu gives us an opportunity
to focus on those types of
innovations and technologies,

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and apply them to other
infectious diseases if they were
to occur.

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Okay, so a lot of the media talk
now, which I actually despise it
because all they're doing,

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I feel is just freaking people
out and not even talking about
possible solutions other than
this so-called

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stockpile of Tammy flu or
whatever it should be available.

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Actually, I lived in Belgium for
about five years, and I think it
was two years ago,

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what they were calling the bird
flu, swept through continental
Europe,

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and actually we were only one
kilometer outside of the
quarantine area,

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and we actually had officials
come by and investigate,

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we had a family of like six
black swans, and, you know, they
were ready to quote,

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call them if necessary, and one
of my neighbors was working on a
lot of the calling,

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and he actually got, I guess,
the bird flu, which I presume
that, you know,

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that is indeed possible that you
get this from birds, and he was
really quite ill.

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He, you know, he was okay.

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Are we really talking now about
the, you know, a pandemic or the
one that everyone is talking
about,

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and I'd love to talk about some
more, you know, just bio-defense
in general,

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is it, is it the tipping point
where it spreads from human to
human,

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and is that something that is a
reality?

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You know, Adam, I think the way
to look at this is,

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there, if you think about the
birds, whether it's, you know,
swans or chickens,

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or just any kind of migratory
bird, consider them the natural
reservoir for influenza.

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It's not uncommon that these
birds carry flu,

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and the key question and what
we're worried about is, will the
virus change

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when it replicates, when it
makes more of itself, will it
change to a form

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that will allow it to be
infectious, not only from birds
to people or birds to pigs, for
example,

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but from person to person.

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And the only way that that can
happen is when it's making more
of itself,

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the virus, and it's called
replication, it has to make a
mistake,

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and change or mutate that virus
to a form where then it becomes
highly infectious

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from person to person.

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Is it possible for that to
happen?

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Absolutely.

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Can we predict when it will
happen or the probability of
that happening?

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We can't predict that.

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We do know that annual flu often
goes through that process.

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Birds, or the reservoir, it goes
into what you consider a mixing
vessel

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or another kind of intermediary
species, which is a pig,

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and then it can be transformed
or mutated into a form that
infects person to person.

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So KPCB is really known for a
lot of its technology
investments

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certainly in the recent decade.

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The technology, as I understand
it, of creating vaccines,

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is actually antiquated, maybe
not the right word,

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but you still use chicken eggs
to actually develop anti-virus
matter?

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Well, that's right, Adam.

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The way vaccines are made today
are in eggs.

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I mean, literally tens of
millions of them.

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And that's where the vaccine
that we all get, hopefully
everyone,

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listening gets every year for
what we call the seasonal flu.

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And that vaccine contains the
best guess by public health
experts

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each year of three strains that
were probably going around the
world.

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But that technique has not been
replaced.

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So that's part of the innovation
gap set that we were talking
about.

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And so what we're doing with
this new funding is we're
searching worldwide

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for innovators, young companies,
inventors, and scientists,

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who are developing ways of
making vaccines and cells.

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So, so-called cellular
production.

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Or even beyond that, not in
cells, so a DNA-based vaccine.

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And the advantage of these is,
first of all, they don't use
eggs,

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which would be problematic, a
baby, and flu breaks out human
human.

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And secondly, these production
techniques allow a shorter time

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of response, what we call surge
capacity.

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So instead of the current six
months it takes to scale up a
lot of vaccine doses

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for the world, it could take
literally six weeks,

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or maybe even shorter.

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And then also new vaccine
production techniques

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and product development
techniques, formulation, and so
on.

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We call it would allow vaccines
that are more exquisitely
immunogenic,

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which means less can be given to
a person to protect them.

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In the antiviral space, there is
Tamiflu, which is a good drug,

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but we don't know how will it
would work against

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really strong new viruses that
come out.

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It works okay against the
seasonal flu,

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but against avian flu so far in
Southeast Asia.

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It hasn't worked so well in
humans.

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And so there is some new
antivirals that are being
developed.

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We want to invest in those and
encourage the development of
them

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by our capital as well.

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So, as a broken obvious question
is,

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in the grand scale of
preparedness and defense against
anything

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in today's world, you know, $200
million

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with all respect is chump
change.

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If you just look at what we're
spending on the war against
terror.

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Is this, I mean, is that enough?

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If it's, and if it's only $200
million,

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why isn't the government doing
this type of funding

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and working hard or NGOs or any
other organizations

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besides venture capital?

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Well, they are as well.

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So, there are a lot of people
working on this problem.

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The United States Federal
Government works on it

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from a variety of points of
view.

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The National Institutes of
Health has an allergy and
infectious disease

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division that funds research.

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But, and so does the HHS and the
CDC,

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Health and Human Services and
Centers for Disease Control.

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But, their role as government is
to encourage research

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to fund some of it.

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Government doesn't develop
products.

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The private sector does that.

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And so, our $200 million will go
to that

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to developing the products that
then go out

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into the public health system.

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Now, as your question of a
quantitation of that

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or size of it, generally when we
invest in a company,

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there are other investors who
will follow our lead.

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And so, usually, there's a four
or five

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to one multiple on that.

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So, we estimate that.

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So, our investing will probably
lead to about a billion

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dollars of investment in these
companies.

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So, then, there's two obvious
questions that arise.

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One is, so let's say the fund
produces one or more

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technologies or products that
actually are effective.

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That has the capability, of
course, of making the investors

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and the fund in these products
wealthy beyond their wildest
dreams.

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And there's always the question
of, well, is it made affordable

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for everyone can, you know, will
it only be a certain segment

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that then kind of access to this
technology or this medication

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to actually survive an outbreak?

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Is, you know, how do you look at
that?

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Well, it's way more complicated
than that.

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First of all, I don't think in
infectious diseases

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or anyone gets wealthy beyond
their wildest dreams.

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Because there's a desire just as
you said

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to get these products out to
everyone.

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In the developed countries, the
drugs like this

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would be priced at a rate, what
we call a reasonable price.

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And then it's our goal to have
these drugs available

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in the less developed countries
at cost or some other method

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of getting it to them so that
this can be a worldwide
phenomenon.

14:09.000 --> 14:13.000
And it's important to think as
Tom Friedman says the world is
flat.

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It's especially true in
infectious diseases

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because with worldwide travel
and how people move around today

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and infectious diseases starts
in one country

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really is local to every country
in the world.

14:29.000 --> 14:34.000
Beth, I believe that part of the
fund has already been allocated

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towards your work.

14:35.000 --> 14:38.000
Could you tell me what you're
doing?

14:38.000 --> 14:39.000
Yes, sure, Adam.

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So one of our first investments
is in a company called Biocrist,

14:45.000 --> 14:51.000
which is a drug discovery
company that has an important

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antiviral agent called
Paramavir.

14:54.000 --> 14:59.000
We believe as Brooke mentioned
that it's very important to have

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multiple options to choose from
when if there is a diagnosis of
flu

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in your ability to treat
patients.

15:09.000 --> 15:14.000
Paramavir is a similar mechanism
to Tamiflu

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and it can be given
intravenously.

15:18.000 --> 15:22.000
So in particular for patients
who are very ill and in the
hospital

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parameter we hope will be a very
important therapeutic option.

15:29.000 --> 15:35.000
Now let's just say there's no
pandemic or maybe just a very
mild one.

15:35.000 --> 15:37.000
I presume we don't lose.

15:37.000 --> 15:41.000
I presume the investments are
for long term and not just a
short term.

15:41.000 --> 15:47.000
Oh my gosh, the black death
plague is coming.

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Is this all for the long term?

15:50.000 --> 15:51.000
Yes.

15:51.000 --> 15:54.000
This is not dependent upon
anything bad happening.

15:54.000 --> 15:55.000
Sure.

15:55.000 --> 15:57.000
Yeah.

15:57.000 --> 16:02.000
So venture capital is really a
10 year horizon on investing.

16:02.000 --> 16:06.000
That's true in all technology
and science areas.

16:06.000 --> 16:09.000
It's especially true in this
one.

16:09.000 --> 16:15.000
And as I mentioned earlier, so a
new vaccine production technique
for flu

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or avian flu or new strains of
that would be applicable to new
vaccine technology

16:22.000 --> 16:31.000
production methods for hepatitis
and herbysimplex and many other
kinds of diseases

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respiratory viral diseases that
are around today.

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It's important to remember that
there are over 20 new infectious
pathogens that have emerged

16:42.000 --> 16:51.000
since 1970 in the world, HIV
being one, of course, that's
been devastating in this tragic.

16:51.000 --> 16:56.000
We haven't talked about
diagnostics and that's another
area that's very important.

16:56.000 --> 17:02.000
There is, for example, today, no
rapid diagnostic test that can
be used point of care

17:02.000 --> 17:07.000
to determine if someone has
avian flu.

17:08.000 --> 17:14.000
It's possible to go in right now
and get a rapid test to see if
you have the annual flu, but not
avian.

17:14.000 --> 17:17.000
What's the incubation period of
the avian flu?

17:17.000 --> 17:20.000
What's the incubation period?

17:20.000 --> 17:23.000
Well, that's an interesting
question.

17:23.000 --> 17:31.000
The incubation period, it
doesn't show symptoms so far on
avian flu for at least seven
days,

17:31.000 --> 17:35.000
but the person can be infectious
by the second day.

17:35.000 --> 17:42.000
So a person could be walking
around in the infectious state,
but not be symptomatic.

17:42.000 --> 17:50.000
So there's a need for a test
that could be done by an
untrained technician with
agricultural workers

17:50.000 --> 17:55.000
or at an airport check-in
facility or something like that.

17:55.000 --> 18:01.000
So the sick people will know
that they're sick and healthy
will know that they're okay.

18:01.000 --> 18:06.000
And then you would know who to
give like aggressive antiviral
therapy to.

18:06.000 --> 18:16.000
If you read the paper today when
they take the samples that you
read about in Turkey or Iraq or
India now or wherever,

18:16.000 --> 18:19.000
it takes days to get
confirmation.

18:19.000 --> 18:22.000
So that's a second diagnostic
test that's needed.

18:22.000 --> 18:30.000
There would use less technology
of instruments in a special lab
and more out in the field.

18:30.000 --> 18:36.000
Well, that does sound like your
first line of defense is
identification within timely
manner, I agree on that.

18:36.000 --> 18:40.000
Just moving on to the
bio-defense part of the fund.

18:40.000 --> 18:46.000
Whenever I read the word
defense, I immediately think of
aerospace and defense and I
think war.

18:46.000 --> 18:49.000
Is that how I should interpret
that?

18:49.000 --> 18:57.000
No, the way we think of that is
that these are infectious
pathogens, regardless of the
delivery system.

18:57.000 --> 19:02.000
So what works for public health
works sort of across the board?

19:02.000 --> 19:04.000
Excellent.

19:04.000 --> 19:10.000
Well, I guess the only thing
that's left is to stay close to
you guys and real happy.

19:10.000 --> 19:15.000
Because if something breaks out,
you know I'm going to be living
in your basement.

19:15.000 --> 19:18.000
Well, you're welcome too.

19:18.000 --> 19:21.000
And just break that car.

19:21.000 --> 19:24.000
Yeah, we'll we'll turn it by.

19:24.000 --> 19:30.000
But so I just in general, just
as a final question, should we
really be,

19:30.000 --> 19:32.000
I mean, this is great to hear.

19:32.000 --> 19:36.000
I'm really happy to know that
there, you know, at least
understand some of the work
that's going on,

19:36.000 --> 19:40.000
and even understanding about,
you know, the identification in
a timely manner,

19:40.000 --> 19:46.000
and knowledge of if someone is
infected, is all the fear that
is being built up now,

19:46.000 --> 19:48.000
particularly on television.

19:48.000 --> 19:50.000
Is it warranted?

19:50.000 --> 19:52.000
And I guess that's the best
question.

19:52.000 --> 19:54.000
Is it really warranted?

19:54.000 --> 19:56.000
It feels like this thing is just
around the corner.

19:56.000 --> 20:00.000
And now in the United Kingdom,
it's like, you know, bring all
the birds in because it's
coming.

20:00.000 --> 20:07.000
It just feels like, you know,
it's being whipped into a frenzy
almost.

20:07.000 --> 20:17.000
Well, Adam, I think that there's
reason to worry because the
virus that we've seen that's
infected people directly from
birds.

20:17.000 --> 20:26.000
Is a very, very, very, very
severe type of infection that
develops in people.

20:26.000 --> 20:35.000
And so there is reason to have
careful evaluation, increased
surveillance and diagnosis,

20:35.000 --> 20:38.000
whether it's in the birds or
people.

20:38.000 --> 20:45.000
And I think that, you know, the
silver lining for us here is
being prepared,

20:45.000 --> 20:58.000
and moving innovation forward in
this area of emerging infectious
diseases is going to be a very
good thing for the population at
large for the global,

20:58.000 --> 21:04.000
for the world, whether we have a
pandemic from an avian flu or
not.

21:04.000 --> 21:06.000
We're going to modernize with
vaccine business.

21:06.000 --> 21:11.000
We have an opportunity to have
better diagnostics and better
therapies for people.

21:11.000 --> 21:16.000
And we think it'll make an
important contribution.

21:16.000 --> 21:20.000
Well, I appreciate both of you
taking the time to explain some
of this to me today.

21:20.000 --> 21:24.000
And definitely, you know, keep
me updated on progress.

21:24.000 --> 21:27.000
Brooke, if someone's listening
right now and thinks, you know,

21:27.000 --> 21:30.000
Wow, you know, I have an idea or
I have a plan.

21:30.000 --> 21:32.000
I mean, how do they reach out to
you?

21:32.000 --> 21:39.000
Oh, they just go to the our
website www.kpcb.com.

21:39.000 --> 21:43.000
Okay, and then I'd like to know
if you've ever considered doing
a podcast,

21:43.000 --> 21:46.000
because you've got a great
voice, Brooke, you'd be perfect
for one.

21:46.000 --> 21:50.000
Well, I'm just trying to be like
you.

21:50.000 --> 21:54.000
Got to grow the hair man, that's
all.

21:54.000 --> 21:56.000
Best side in Bergberg by us.

21:56.000 --> 21:57.000
Thank you very much.

21:57.000 --> 22:01.000
And let's definitely keep in
touch on this and see where it
goes.

22:01.000 --> 22:04.000
I'm sure the audience would love
to be updated as well.

22:04.000 --> 22:07.000
And if you feedback, I get from
all past on you guys.

22:07.000 --> 22:08.000
All right, thank you.

22:08.000 --> 22:10.000
Thanks, Adam.

22:10.000 --> 22:15.000
Well, I don't know, but you
guys, are you freaked out by
that?

22:15.000 --> 22:16.000
Or not?

22:16.000 --> 22:24.000
I'm still a little bit confused
about how I should feel about
this pending pandemic that is
upon us.

22:24.000 --> 22:27.000
And by the way, this was the
first time that I used Cas
Blaster with Skype.

22:27.000 --> 22:29.000
And I'm pretty happy with the
result.

22:29.000 --> 22:31.000
I mean, we did all in one go.

22:31.000 --> 22:34.000
No glitches, everything sounded
pretty cool.

22:34.000 --> 22:36.000
Although, you know, a lot of
room noise, man.

22:36.000 --> 22:39.000
I never noticed that when I shut
up and when someone else is
talking,

22:39.000 --> 22:43.000
it's like you can hear the whole
condo kind of breathing,
breathing upon you.

22:43.000 --> 22:46.000
And a couple of lighter clicks
there in the background,

22:46.000 --> 22:49.000
but considering the topic, I
think it was necessary.

22:49.000 --> 22:53.000
So this is just a temporary
format change for the Charlie.

22:53.000 --> 22:55.000
I just wanted to mix it up a
little bit.

22:55.000 --> 22:58.000
You know that I'm working on
getting my Uncle Don in.

22:58.000 --> 23:01.000
I don't think he'll fit in 20 or
30 minutes,

23:01.000 --> 23:04.000
we'll probably have to do a
series of Uncle Don
conversations,

23:04.000 --> 23:06.000
which I might have to edit,
because you know,

23:06.000 --> 23:07.000
what is it?

23:07.000 --> 23:13.000
It's like 50 years of life in
Washington and in politics,

23:13.000 --> 23:16.000
and not just in Washington, but
in Asia.

23:16.000 --> 23:20.000
Gosh, I should have asked him
about the avian flu as well.

23:20.000 --> 23:22.000
Anyway, so that turned out
pretty successful.

23:22.000 --> 23:26.000
Those of you interested, the way
I did it with Casplaster is
using two sound cards,

23:26.000 --> 23:29.000
and I just routed Skype through
a different sound card,

23:29.000 --> 23:30.000
and it went through the mixer,

23:30.000 --> 23:33.000
and came back into Casplaster so
that worked out perfectly.

23:33.000 --> 23:36.000
If you're listening to us on
serious stars 103,

23:36.000 --> 23:39.000
soon to be moving to channel
102.

23:39.000 --> 23:43.000
So I think that's coming up in a
week or so,

23:43.000 --> 23:45.000
as we move just a little bit
closer to God,

23:45.000 --> 23:49.000
as we can move closer to the
Stern channels on 101.

23:49.000 --> 23:51.000
You've got Pacific Coast Hillway
coming up next.

23:51.000 --> 23:56.000
After that, it's a Madge
Weinstein Donandru Gilmour
Daily.

23:56.000 --> 24:00.000
Today, maybe, DVD weekly, or
which at all.

24:00.000 --> 24:01.000
I'm not quite sure what's coming
up.

24:01.000 --> 24:02.000
And of course, I'm pod save
music.

24:02.000 --> 24:04.000
We do that every single week,

24:04.000 --> 24:07.000
after noon between 6 and 10
Eastern 3 and 7 Pacific.

24:07.000 --> 24:10.000
Tomorrow I'll be back right here
with more daily source code.

24:10.000 --> 24:13.000
We'll get back into some music.

24:13.000 --> 24:15.000
And we'll finish out the week,

24:15.000 --> 24:18.000
because I'm hurrying up, getting
a lot of stuff done.

24:18.000 --> 24:19.000
So I can go back home.

24:19.000 --> 24:20.000
I'll see you, everybody.

24:20.000 --> 24:21.000
Bye-bye.

24:21.000 --> 24:24.000
Another pod show pod guest.

24:24.000 --> 24:26.000
Stick it in your ear.