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Well, hello, everybody.

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Welcome to the very first
Devcast.

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Which you can find and
hopefully,

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Did find at
developers.podshow.com.

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With me, I'm in Gilford in the
Curry Cottage with me today.

00:31.000 --> 00:33.000
Joining us via Skype is Andrew
Grommett,

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who is at Pod Show HQ in San
Francisco,

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Morning Andrew.

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Good morning, Adam.

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So, here we go, bro.

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We're getting real close now.

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Getting real.

00:43.000 --> 00:46.000
So, excuse me, I'm eating a
cheese and grapes.

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Which is a rocket fuel for
developers in England.

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It's not a diet coke.

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No, no, no, no, no.

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I don't drink diet coke.

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Okay, so here's the concept.

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We want to allow the first
audience members to come into
Pod Show

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Plus and, you know, snoop around
and see what's going on

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and work with the podcast
delivery network as well.

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And since we have lots of cool
stuff that we already planning
for developers,

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we thought it was a logical,

01:18.000 --> 01:20.000
yeah, really a logical step to
say,

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well, why don't we let the
developers in first?

01:22.000 --> 01:24.000
Who, of course, are fantastic
listeners.

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Andrew is you and I, or as I
know, having worked with you.

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I mean, those early days of, of
podcasting when,

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literally, you know, I'd create
a show and then you guys would
adapt your code.

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You know, what was it like from
your end,

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back in the day, developing
with, with users who were
creating podcasts?

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It was pretty amazing.

01:44.000 --> 01:47.000
The thing, it's, it's, uh,

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when you can build your own code
and then,

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have that, you know, influence
your daily life, build the tools
that are,

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you know, improving your, your
data day experience.

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That's, that's one of the best
things you can do,

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I think, uh, as an engineer.

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Maybe just short of building
stuff for other people,

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which, of course, we were doing
it the same time.

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But, uh, I do have a great
memory of the first.

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I don't know if you remember
this,

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you remember the first.

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I think you played a clip from a
coverville of the Abba.

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Um, do you remember this?

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They did Abba covers in the
early days.

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Trying to think, I don't know.

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I just have this incredible
memory of, of walking down the
street,

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and listening to this cover of
an Abba song,

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uh, and thinking, wow, okay,
we're really onto something
here.

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Um, yeah.

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Covers of Abba, we've really
improved the universe.

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Haven't we, Andrew?

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That's great.

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Okay.

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Now, we've had, um,

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developer.podshow.com up for a
while.

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Um, we actually haven't really
been able to add much to it.

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Since we haven't really opened
up yet,

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and I guess, uh, we're working
to happen here.

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We'll eventually flow over into,
uh, into that site.

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Yeah, right on.

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That's, uh, where we're
collecting all of the, uh,
ideas.

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Right now, of course, it's heavy
on ideas.

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But, uh, as we release SDKs,

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we will have, um, you know,
downloads and web visible,

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the HTML documentation for
everything that we release,

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uh, trying to make it really
easy.

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Collect code examples, um,

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uh, pointers to, uh,

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people who might have put things
up on their own sites.

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Just try to make it, uh,

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you know, the place to get
started,

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if you're a developer and want
to build something around the
PDN.

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Right.

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Now, there's, there's really two
sides.

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There is the PDN.

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The podcast will be network and
actually, uh,

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there isn't API for that now,
which, uh,

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is pretty standard.

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I don't think we've published it
yet,

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and so we can get to it.

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But, uh, we're going to publish
that

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for these developers as well,
who will be playing with that?

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Absolutely.

03:48.000 --> 03:49.000
Yeah.

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So, um, I've actually, uh,

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there's a couple of the recent
posts sort of hint at where
we're going,

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and, um, actually, I made you,

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maybe that maybe I should do a
dev cast to actually talk

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through some of the stuff we,
uh,

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you know, figure it out, uh,

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doing some of that
implementation, um,

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uh, as a, you know, a way to,

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test the water and see what
people's reactions are.

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Uh, before, you know, what
happens when you commit things,

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too, uh, writing on the web
suddenly,

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they become stack.

04:17.000 --> 04:18.000
Yeah.

04:18.000 --> 04:19.000
Before, you know, even if you
say,

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even if you say, this is not
stack,

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so maybe a podcast is the way
to, uh,

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uh, you know, put some ideas out
there for feedback.

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Excellent.

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Well, yeah, that would be good,

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and then we'll just include it
in this feed as well.

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And then we have a pod show
plus.

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And this is where I think
there's a lot of exciting stuff

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to be done as well.

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This is really the, the
experience side.

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This is what we built for the
audience.

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This is what really is taking
the most time.

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To really get it right.

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And we have a concept of
modules.

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You want to get into that a
little bit and explain what that
is and,

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and how they work and how the
developers are mess around with
them.

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Yeah.

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Absolutely.

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Modules are segments of every
user and show on the on pod show
plus

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will have a page.

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We're calling it a profile page
where you can, you know,

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sort of like a homepage, uh,

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where you can, uh,

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uh, view information, uh,

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about a person or a show.

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And the person or the, you know,

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if it's a show maintainer,

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they arrange content on that
page,

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sort of like a blog page,

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um, or a sort of a my,

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you know,

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Yahoo type page.

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And what we'll be doing with
modules is,

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um,

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modules just our name for
different areas on the page,

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um,

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that you can fill with flicker
feeds or,

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you know, any RSS feed or,

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yeah,

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who weather or, um,

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you know,

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recent shows from the,

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uh,

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I'm sorry,

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recent, uh,

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additions to the pod safe music
network.

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So we've come up with a handful
of modules,

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uh, for people to put on their
pages.

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And what we'll be doing is
opening an up,

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up in SDK that lets developers
create,

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uh, new modules that people can
put on their pages.

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So, uh,

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that, you know,

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within kind of reasonable limits
of security and,

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and machine, you know,

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resource use,

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you'll be able to put pretty
much anything on your page that
you want.

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So, uh,

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we'll make it, uh,

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you know,

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you know,

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let a thousand flowers bloom,

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as they say,

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you know,

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let's see what people come up
with.

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Yeah, we will actually have,

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uh,

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almost a user version of that,

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which, of course,

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a module that eats HTML.

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You can, you know,

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jam any HTML in there,

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which users have gotten pretty
good at.

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And you'll be able to put that
on your page as well.

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So, it's,

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it's kind of hard to explain.

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So, that's why, you know,

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I'm happy that now people are
going to be able to come in and
take a look at it.

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Um,

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how are we actually going to
manage the,

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uh, this development process,

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Andrew, I mean,

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who do people talk to,

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uh,

06:46.000 --> 06:47.000
I know we don't,

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we don't have everything set up
yet with URLs,

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etc.

06:50.000 --> 06:51.000
Obviously,

06:51.000 --> 06:52.000
um,

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we're not going to give them out
on the public podcast.

06:54.000 --> 06:55.000
How,

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how will the feedback loop work,

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is it going to be a CVS,

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or what,

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what have you set up for all
that?

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Yeah,

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we're looking at,

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actually right now,

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we're looking at,

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uh,

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using a source forage project.

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Um,

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we've talked internally about,

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uh,

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you know,

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managing the CVS ourselves,

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but, um,

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I think,

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there's sort of,

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this is a well understood,

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you know,

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problem set as long as people
are developing open source
stuff.

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We,

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there's plenty of tools out
there,

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uh,

07:21.000 --> 07:22.000
that we can,

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you know,

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so we can use for,

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uh,

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saving people's code.

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I mean,

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the key thing is just that,

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you know,

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and there's a place to point to
it,

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and stuff doesn't fall through
the cracks.

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Um,

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but,

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K1 and myself,

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Kevin Strausky,

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will be,

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in the points of contact.

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We actually have a,

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a little used currently,

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uh,

07:43.000 --> 07:44.000
Gmail address,

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uh,

07:45.000 --> 07:46.000
podshow developer at Gmail.com.

07:46.000 --> 07:47.000
So we'll either use that or,

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or whatever tools are available
on,

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say source forage,

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or,

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you know,

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wherever we host it.

07:53.000 --> 07:54.000
So now it,

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it being on source force.

07:55.000 --> 07:56.000
That means we can keep it close.

07:56.000 --> 07:58.000
We can keep it password
protected.

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Well,

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that's a good point.

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Uh,

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source forage is,

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is for open source,

08:03.000 --> 08:04.000
um,

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you know,

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code,

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which I don't actually,

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that's a good question.

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I don't think we've,

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um,

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technically if it's running on
our servers,

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we could keep it closed.

08:12.000 --> 08:13.000
But if you mean,

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you know,

08:14.000 --> 08:15.000
we need a password,

08:15.000 --> 08:16.000
you know,

08:16.000 --> 08:17.000
in order to commit code,

08:17.000 --> 08:18.000
sure that's how source forage
works.

08:18.000 --> 08:19.000
Um,

08:19.000 --> 08:21.000
but the code itself up there
would be out in the open.

08:21.000 --> 08:22.000
Okay.

08:22.000 --> 08:23.000
Well,

08:23.000 --> 08:24.000
that's,

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that's not,

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that's not an issue.

08:27.000 --> 08:28.000
Well,

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and I think probably,

08:29.000 --> 08:30.000
um,

08:30.000 --> 08:33.000
and so we're going to issue
golden tickets on these dev
cast.

08:33.000 --> 08:35.000
So it could be that you'd hear
in this show,

08:35.000 --> 08:36.000
could be in the next show,

08:36.000 --> 08:37.000
could be the one after that.

08:37.000 --> 08:38.000
But really,

08:38.000 --> 08:40.000
the intention is to get all the
developer's in,

08:40.000 --> 08:41.000
but instead of having,

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you know,

08:42.000 --> 08:43.000
a couple hundred show up in,

08:43.000 --> 08:44.000
in one day,

08:44.000 --> 08:45.000
we're going to stagger it.

08:45.000 --> 08:47.000
So you'll hear in one of these
dev cast,

08:47.000 --> 08:49.000
you'll hear instructions on
where to go.

08:49.000 --> 08:50.000
And I'm thinking that that makes
sense,

08:50.000 --> 08:52.000
that we give instructions,

08:52.000 --> 08:54.000
or maybe there's a pre
registered,

08:54.000 --> 08:55.000
um,

08:55.000 --> 08:56.000
that's a good,

08:56.000 --> 08:57.000
that's an interesting one.

08:57.000 --> 08:58.000
We can give more.

08:58.000 --> 09:00.000
We're also going to have a wiki
else that I mentioned,

09:00.000 --> 09:03.000
as a place for information,

09:03.000 --> 09:05.000
and putting up code samples.

09:05.000 --> 09:07.000
Yeah, my favorite technology.

09:07.000 --> 09:10.000
Okay.

09:10.000 --> 09:12.000
So instructions,

09:12.000 --> 09:15.000
how to get into this particular
developer program,

09:15.000 --> 09:18.000
we'll be included in the golden
ticket.

09:18.000 --> 09:19.000
And of course,

09:19.000 --> 09:20.000
over the course of the next,

09:20.000 --> 09:21.000
I don't know,

09:21.000 --> 09:22.000
we'll probably do five of these,

09:22.000 --> 09:24.000
and then as they go along as you
and Kevin and other people have
stuff to say,

09:25.000 --> 09:26.000
we'll just do more,

09:26.000 --> 09:27.000
which I think is kind of cool

09:27.000 --> 09:29.000
if we have the audio feedback
portion

09:29.000 --> 09:30.000
to what's going on,

09:30.000 --> 09:32.000
then eventually everyone will
get in.

09:32.000 --> 09:34.000
Just so everyone is clear on the
intent there.

09:34.000 --> 09:35.000
Oh, I see.

09:35.000 --> 09:36.000
Okay, right.

09:36.000 --> 09:38.000
And Andrew,

09:38.000 --> 09:39.000
by the way,

09:39.000 --> 09:40.000
is the guy behind D-gap?

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We can actually do this, right?

09:42.000 --> 09:44.000
Oh, yeah, absolutely.

09:44.000 --> 09:46.000
So, well,

09:46.000 --> 09:47.000
do you want me to talk about
that?

09:47.000 --> 09:48.000
Yeah, absolutely.

09:48.000 --> 09:50.000
This is my favorite,

09:50.000 --> 09:51.000
favorite stuff that we built.

09:51.000 --> 09:52.000
This is cool.

09:52.000 --> 09:54.000
Okay, so with D-gap,

09:54.000 --> 09:59.000
we basically have a system where
you can set up a flag that says,

09:59.000 --> 10:00.000
you know,

10:00.000 --> 10:04.000
the next episode that comes
through on show X,

10:04.000 --> 10:05.000
you know,

10:05.000 --> 10:07.000
should be flagged to get an
insertion.

10:07.000 --> 10:08.000
And then there's a pointer to,

10:08.000 --> 10:09.000
you know,

10:09.000 --> 10:11.000
the file that will be inserted.

10:11.000 --> 10:13.000
And as you recall,

10:13.000 --> 10:17.000
we'd come up with a convention
for passing the information into
the system about,

10:17.000 --> 10:20.000
where in the middle of the cast,

10:20.000 --> 10:23.000
the insertion should be made and
with what probability, right?

10:23.000 --> 10:26.000
This was the coin toss idea with
each downloader.

10:26.000 --> 10:29.000
We pick a random number and,

10:29.000 --> 10:32.000
you know, subject to some
probability,

10:32.000 --> 10:35.000
decide whether that user will
get a goal to take it.

10:35.000 --> 10:36.000
And then if they do,

10:36.000 --> 10:38.000
we bump the counter and,

10:38.000 --> 10:39.000
and, you know,

10:39.000 --> 10:43.000
check to make sure that we're
only serving these golden
tickets up to a certain point.

10:43.000 --> 10:44.000
And after that,

10:44.000 --> 10:45.000
we don't serve anymore.

10:45.000 --> 10:47.000
So we're eventually going to
open up an API for that as well.

10:47.000 --> 10:48.000
I would presume.

10:49.000 --> 10:51.000
We definitely can, right?

10:51.000 --> 10:53.000
It, uh,

10:53.000 --> 10:54.000
excuse me,

10:54.000 --> 10:55.000
but all I'm saying all,

10:55.000 --> 10:56.000
yeah,

10:56.000 --> 10:57.000
I had my own,

10:57.000 --> 10:58.000
you know,

10:58.000 --> 10:59.000
I was thinking about that.

10:59.000 --> 11:00.000
You know,

11:00.000 --> 11:01.000
we're not,

11:01.000 --> 11:02.000
we need to get this in sale.

11:02.000 --> 11:03.000
Love here over HQ.

11:03.000 --> 11:04.000
Really.

11:04.000 --> 11:06.000
Um,

11:06.000 --> 11:07.000
uh,

11:07.000 --> 11:09.000
so we can APIize that
absolutely.

11:09.000 --> 11:10.000
Um,

11:10.000 --> 11:12.000
I think the sky's the limit,
really.

11:12.000 --> 11:13.000
Cool.

11:13.000 --> 11:14.000
We have to,

11:14.000 --> 11:15.000
you know,

11:15.000 --> 11:16.000
figure out what people like and,

11:16.000 --> 11:17.000
you know,

11:18.000 --> 11:19.000
okay.

11:19.000 --> 11:20.000
Um,

11:20.000 --> 11:23.000
just,

11:23.000 --> 11:24.000
oh, yeah,

11:24.000 --> 11:26.000
I wanted to touch briefly on,

11:26.000 --> 11:27.000
because I,

11:27.000 --> 11:28.000
in the source code,

11:28.000 --> 11:29.000
I said that,

11:29.000 --> 11:30.000
really,

11:30.000 --> 11:32.000
the only skills you need are
knowledge of HTML,

11:32.000 --> 11:33.000
PHP.

11:33.000 --> 11:35.000
Am I correct in that assumption?

11:35.000 --> 11:37.000
It doesn't seem like there's
much more there, is there?

11:37.000 --> 11:38.000
Yeah.

11:38.000 --> 11:39.000
It's, uh,

11:39.000 --> 11:40.000
there's actually,

11:40.000 --> 11:41.000
a sort of build-up function that
will set up a skeleton for you
as well.

11:41.000 --> 11:43.000
So you don't even have to know
the file structure,

11:43.000 --> 11:44.000
all that deeply.

11:44.000 --> 11:45.000
Um,

11:45.000 --> 11:47.000
but you give it a name for your
module.

11:47.000 --> 11:48.000
And, uh,

11:48.000 --> 11:49.000
it's sort of what the,

11:49.000 --> 11:50.000
you know, a gentle slope.

11:50.000 --> 11:51.000
You can just put in some,

11:51.000 --> 11:54.000
some static text and you're
often running,

11:54.000 --> 11:55.000
uh,

11:55.000 --> 11:57.000
but what we'll do is we'll
provide docs on,

11:57.000 --> 11:58.000
you know,

11:58.000 --> 12:01.000
how to get deeper and create
custom variables and so forth.

12:01.000 --> 12:02.000
Excellent.

12:02.000 --> 12:03.000
So yeah,

12:03.000 --> 12:04.000
I don't think we,

12:04.000 --> 12:07.000
we're not going to require any
sequel programming or anything
like that.

12:07.000 --> 12:08.000
Okay.

12:08.000 --> 12:10.000
Good, because then I can't
participate.

12:10.000 --> 12:13.000
I want to get in there and mess
around and screw some shit up.

12:14.000 --> 12:16.000
I know just enough to be really
dangerous.

12:16.000 --> 12:17.000
I was going to say,

12:17.000 --> 12:18.000
can you, you know,

12:18.000 --> 12:19.000
tunnel out your,

12:19.000 --> 12:21.000
your second life identity
somehow.

12:21.000 --> 12:22.000
Dude,

12:22.000 --> 12:24.000
that stuff is outrageous.

12:24.000 --> 12:25.000
Have you been,

12:25.000 --> 12:26.000
but tried second life?

12:26.000 --> 12:27.000
I haven't.

12:27.000 --> 12:28.000
I'm scared of it.

12:28.000 --> 12:29.000
If I do it,

12:29.000 --> 12:30.000
that'll be it.

12:30.000 --> 12:31.000
It'll eat your time.

12:31.000 --> 12:33.000
It takes away your life.

12:33.000 --> 12:34.000
It, it,

12:34.000 --> 12:35.000
it becomes first life almost.

12:35.000 --> 12:36.000
It's amazing.

12:36.000 --> 12:37.000
I've already,

12:37.000 --> 12:38.000
um,

12:38.000 --> 12:39.000
someone already gave me a,

12:39.000 --> 12:40.000
um, a penis.

12:40.000 --> 12:42.000
So I can use that now and all
the,

12:42.000 --> 12:43.000
you know,

12:43.000 --> 12:44.000
the sex area is,

12:44.000 --> 12:45.000
it's crazy.

12:45.000 --> 12:46.000
It's like,

12:46.000 --> 12:47.000
it's really nice.

12:47.000 --> 12:48.000
What did I hear that they're,

12:48.000 --> 12:49.000
they're prostitutes now?

12:49.000 --> 12:50.000
Oh, yeah.

12:50.000 --> 12:51.000
Excuse me.

12:51.000 --> 12:52.000
Escorts Andrew.

12:52.000 --> 12:53.000
Escorts.

12:53.000 --> 12:54.000
Oh, sorry.

12:54.000 --> 12:55.000
All right.

12:55.000 --> 12:56.000
All right.

12:56.000 --> 12:57.000
Good man.

12:57.000 --> 12:58.000
So let's leave it at this.

12:58.000 --> 12:59.000
And tomorrow,

12:59.000 --> 13:01.000
I think I'll connect with,

13:01.000 --> 13:02.000
uh,

13:02.000 --> 13:03.000
with Kevin and, uh,

13:03.000 --> 13:04.000
who walk us through,

13:04.000 --> 13:05.000
uh,

13:05.000 --> 13:06.000
some more of the module stuff.

13:06.000 --> 13:07.000
And as of tomorrow,

13:07.000 --> 13:08.000
um,

13:08.000 --> 13:09.000
hopefully we'll have it all set
up so that we can,

13:09.000 --> 13:10.000
uh,

13:10.000 --> 13:11.000
and so this is this first one.

13:11.000 --> 13:12.000
I'll just make sure that,

13:12.000 --> 13:13.000
uh,

13:13.000 --> 13:14.000
everyone is receiving it that,

13:14.000 --> 13:15.000
uh,

13:15.000 --> 13:16.000
we've got,

13:16.000 --> 13:17.000
uh,

13:17.000 --> 13:18.000
everyone is hooked up and
subscribed.

13:18.000 --> 13:19.000
I think this probably going to
be about,

13:19.000 --> 13:21.000
30 to 40 people who will,

13:21.000 --> 13:23.000
who are subscribed already.

13:23.000 --> 13:24.000
I mean,

13:24.000 --> 13:25.000
it's, uh,

13:25.000 --> 13:26.000
excellent.

13:26.000 --> 13:27.000
Yeah.

13:27.000 --> 13:28.000
Now I'm looking forward to this.

13:28.000 --> 13:29.000
Because there's a lot of
excitement on,

13:29.000 --> 13:30.000
on the,

13:30.000 --> 13:31.000
on the,

13:31.000 --> 13:32.000
on the first post,

13:32.000 --> 13:34.000
mainly because people are just
waiting and waiting

13:34.000 --> 13:37.000
and waiting for me to get my ass
in care and get this stuff up.

13:37.000 --> 13:38.000
All right,

13:38.000 --> 13:39.000
um,

13:39.000 --> 13:41.000
what's up for you today at HQ?

13:41.000 --> 13:42.000
And well,

13:42.000 --> 13:43.000
uh,

13:43.000 --> 13:44.000
I've just about got the,

13:44.000 --> 13:45.000
the wiki set up.

13:45.000 --> 13:47.000
I think I was mentioning that
the,

13:47.000 --> 13:48.000
um,

13:48.000 --> 13:49.000
so this will be uh,

13:49.000 --> 13:50.000
tied in with the pdn,

13:50.000 --> 13:52.000
so that the login will carry
over and,

13:52.000 --> 13:53.000
um,

13:53.000 --> 13:55.000
uh,

13:55.000 --> 13:56.000
uh,

13:56.000 --> 13:57.000
uh,

13:57.000 --> 13:58.000
got a call with a big,

13:58.000 --> 13:59.000
uh,

13:59.000 --> 14:01.000
unnamed company coming up here
in about a half an hour

14:01.000 --> 14:03.000
to talk about some joint
projects.

14:03.000 --> 14:04.000
And,

14:04.000 --> 14:05.000
uh,

14:05.000 --> 14:06.000
uh,

14:06.000 --> 14:07.000
yeah.

14:07.000 --> 14:08.000
So we'll keep,

14:08.000 --> 14:09.000
better as well.

14:09.000 --> 14:10.000
Keep em busy.

14:10.000 --> 14:11.000
All right, man,

14:11.000 --> 14:12.000
fantastic.

14:12.000 --> 14:13.000
Um,

14:13.000 --> 14:14.000
well,

14:14.000 --> 14:15.000
that's it for dev cast number
one.

14:15.000 --> 14:17.000
Be on the lookout for dev cast
number two by tomorrow.

14:17.000 --> 14:18.000
And of course,

14:18.000 --> 14:19.000
uh,

14:19.000 --> 14:20.000
be on the lookout for your
golden ticket.

14:20.000 --> 14:21.000
Andrew,

14:21.000 --> 14:22.000
thank you very much,

14:22.000 --> 14:23.000
man.

14:23.000 --> 14:24.000
I'll talk to you later in the
week.

14:24.000 --> 14:25.000
All righty.

14:25.000 --> 14:28.000
Get this podcast and we're great
ones like it.

14:28.000 --> 14:30.000
On the high performance podcast,

14:30.000 --> 14:33.000
delivery network from podjo and
line white networks.

14:33.000 --> 14:35.000
I love it.