WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:06.120 Netcasts you love. 00:06.120 --> 00:11.360 From people you trust. 00:11.360 --> 00:14.080 This is TWIT. 00:14.080 --> 00:27.960 Bandwidth for This Week in Tech is provided by AOL Radio and AOL.com slash podcasting. 00:27.960 --> 00:50.200 This is TWIT This Week in Tech, episode 85 for January 22, 2007 The Podfather. 00:50.200 --> 00:55.800 It is time to TWIT and Patrick Norton is back from a long hiatus. 00:55.800 --> 00:58.800 I hope that hiatus has been operated on and is now completely removed. 00:58.800 --> 00:59.800 We missed you, Patrick. 00:59.800 --> 01:03.560 Oh, well, it's that darn business production schedule. 01:03.560 --> 01:05.800 See us holiday travel thing. 01:05.800 --> 01:11.680 Yeah, between dusty trucks and trade shows in Vegas, it's hard to get Patrick, but we're 01:11.680 --> 01:12.680 glad to have you. 01:12.680 --> 01:16.680 And I know you have a lot of us being trapped in Wyoming behind the snowstorm was part 01:16.680 --> 01:17.680 of it. 01:17.680 --> 01:18.680 Oh, dear. 01:18.680 --> 01:19.680 Oh, wow. 01:19.680 --> 01:20.680 That was unplanned? 01:20.680 --> 01:21.680 No. 01:21.680 --> 01:22.680 I love Laramie Wyoming. 01:22.680 --> 01:27.120 It's one of my favorite towns in Wyoming after Jackson Hole, but I was not planning on spending, 01:27.120 --> 01:31.600 you know, a day and a half there waiting for Route 80 to open up on my way home. 01:31.600 --> 01:32.600 Wow. 01:32.600 --> 01:33.600 Wow. 01:33.600 --> 01:40.040 Also from Great Britain on the line, Will Harris from bit-tech.net, he's become one 01:40.040 --> 01:46.560 of our most welcome regulars and he's the guy who stirred up the whole thing with 01:46.560 --> 01:49.560 the pink jumper and the pink glasses and Adam Curry. 01:49.560 --> 01:55.000 It was your idea to offer him $20 and lo and behold, look here, he is, ladies and gentlemen, 01:55.000 --> 02:00.720 the Podfather himself, the founder of Podshow, of course, the original podcaster with his 02:00.720 --> 02:03.480 daily source code still going strong over 500 episodes. 02:03.480 --> 02:05.480 Adam, I'm so glad we could have you on Twitter. 02:05.480 --> 02:09.040 Oh, it's really great to be here, Leo, and you may now kiss the ring. 02:09.040 --> 02:10.040 Go ahead. 02:10.040 --> 02:11.880 Can I tongue it? 02:11.880 --> 02:12.880 Is it okay to tongue it? 02:12.880 --> 02:13.880 Yeah. 02:13.880 --> 02:15.880 As long as you get around all the edges. 02:15.880 --> 02:17.880 I'll polish it. 02:17.880 --> 02:19.600 Will and I were just going to the pub. 02:19.600 --> 02:22.600 Y'all can call us when you're done with this. 02:22.600 --> 02:24.160 Slightly unsettling this flow. 02:24.160 --> 02:25.880 I'm just glad Adam's got his connectivity. 02:25.880 --> 02:29.680 He's in San Francisco today and I guess Comcast was not behaving earlier this 02:29.680 --> 02:30.680 week. 02:30.680 --> 02:31.680 Oh, this is so amazing. 02:31.680 --> 02:35.480 I am literally, I literally, now you've got to check this out. 02:35.480 --> 02:37.720 I'm going to do a whole video show about this. 02:37.720 --> 02:39.880 I jacked into the telco closet. 02:39.880 --> 02:42.680 I put a Wi-Fi range extender into a hub. 02:42.680 --> 02:47.320 That is picked up by my iMac, which then routes to a Linksys, which then spreads 02:47.360 --> 02:48.360 it throughout the condo. 02:48.360 --> 02:53.360 Do not mess with curry, man, when it comes to connectivity. 02:53.360 --> 02:54.360 Damn it. 02:54.360 --> 02:55.360 Damn it. 02:55.360 --> 03:00.560 This is one of the things I think that's so cool about you, Adam, is you're kind of 03:00.560 --> 03:01.560 a movie star. 03:01.560 --> 03:03.640 I mean, starting with MTV and everything. 03:03.640 --> 03:06.440 And yet, you're really quite a geek deep down. 03:06.440 --> 03:11.440 In fact, really, that's perhaps what your legacy will be. 03:11.440 --> 03:14.960 Do people, have they finally stopped introducing you as former MTV VJ? 03:15.600 --> 03:17.600 I don't think that will ever stop. 03:17.600 --> 03:19.600 Does that drive you crazy? 03:19.600 --> 03:20.600 No, no, no. 03:20.600 --> 03:22.800 I'm very proud of the time I spent there. 03:22.800 --> 03:26.480 Not proud of all the work that I did, but it was a very exciting time at an interesting 03:26.480 --> 03:30.200 point in the history of media when things were changing dramatically. 03:30.200 --> 03:31.200 True. 03:31.200 --> 03:36.280 But it is true that if you look at the roots of my broadcasting career, it started with 03:36.280 --> 03:40.520 me building my own transmitter and having my mom drive me around the block to see how 03:40.520 --> 03:42.200 far the signal would reach. 03:42.200 --> 03:47.680 And I had the Radio Shack 101 project kit, so I was always making stuff. 03:47.680 --> 03:51.240 So I'm totally a geek. 03:51.240 --> 03:54.080 I just met the right people who knew how to do my hair. 03:54.080 --> 03:57.760 Well, and your wife still does your hair, I think, so she's doing her hair. 03:57.760 --> 03:58.760 Absolutely. 03:58.760 --> 03:59.760 Absolutely. 03:59.760 --> 04:00.760 I'll tell her, Leo. 04:00.760 --> 04:01.760 Thank you. 04:01.760 --> 04:02.760 Still looking good. 04:02.760 --> 04:04.640 A little shorter, but still looking like a movie star. 04:04.640 --> 04:07.120 Pink jumper or not? 04:07.120 --> 04:09.600 Let me just say one thing about the pink jumper. 04:10.160 --> 04:15.240 When you go, this was at the Podcast Con UK, which is not really the epitome of the 04:15.240 --> 04:16.920 fashion industry. 04:16.920 --> 04:21.800 So no matter what, no matter what you come in, dressed as, you know, and the 04:21.800 --> 04:25.520 pink jumper, okay, but I just want to make one thing very clear, the glasses, 04:25.520 --> 04:28.480 the rose-tinted glasses are really foreseeing. 04:28.480 --> 04:30.440 They're not, you know, sunglasses. 04:30.440 --> 04:34.000 Yes, they're purposely rose-tinted because, let's face it, the wood looks 04:34.000 --> 04:35.000 nicer that way. 04:35.000 --> 04:38.960 Well, in the interest of full disclosure, we didn't give you 20 bucks either, so. 04:38.960 --> 04:39.960 That's true. 04:39.960 --> 04:40.960 Although I am just... 04:40.960 --> 04:44.800 I'm using a Splenda flavor blend right now in my Senseo coffee, so. 04:44.800 --> 04:46.200 Leo, I appreciate it. 04:46.200 --> 04:47.920 I'll send that snippet to the client. 04:47.920 --> 04:51.560 And, in fact, I use GoDaddy to register all my domains. 04:51.560 --> 04:55.160 Well, you know, you laugh about it, but this is exactly what brand 04:55.160 --> 04:56.680 advertising is about. 04:56.680 --> 05:00.560 Brand advertising is not about finding some relevance on a web page and 05:00.560 --> 05:05.840 putting a relevant link to a product to click. 05:05.840 --> 05:08.520 You know, it's about creating a brand messaging. 05:09.200 --> 05:10.200 Yeah, exactly. 05:10.200 --> 05:11.200 And it carries through. 05:11.200 --> 05:14.200 Here you are, talking about Splendas, if it's the most normal thing in the world. 05:14.200 --> 05:15.200 Well, it is. 05:15.200 --> 05:16.200 It is with the advantage of... 05:16.200 --> 05:17.200 I don't know. 05:17.200 --> 05:19.200 Folks, don't worry, this isn't going to become inside podcasting for the rest of 05:19.200 --> 05:20.200 the show. 05:20.200 --> 05:21.200 We will get to the tech news. 05:21.200 --> 05:22.200 I want to talk to MckiSplend. 05:22.200 --> 05:23.200 I want to talk to MckiSplend. 05:23.200 --> 05:24.200 I want to talk to MckiSplend. 05:24.200 --> 05:25.200 People are fascinated that people actually use Splenda in real life. 05:25.200 --> 05:26.200 I love Splend. 05:26.200 --> 05:27.200 I'll be honest with you, I use Splenda. 05:27.200 --> 05:28.200 In fact, I... 05:28.200 --> 05:32.560 Callie and Neil were up doing Call For Help a few months ago and they got the call 05:32.560 --> 05:34.600 on the show and I said, oh, hey, Neil, I'm a big Splendid. 05:34.600 --> 05:36.440 I don't use the flavor blends, I'll be honest with you, 05:36.440 --> 05:37.920 but I do love Splendid. 05:37.920 --> 05:40.120 I hate to think, you know, nobody knows what it's doing to me, 05:40.120 --> 05:42.480 but it's, but it's, you know, well, sure it's fine. 05:42.480 --> 05:45.400 Now that you can go to the truthaboutsplendid.com, 05:45.400 --> 05:47.400 you can find out what it's not doing to you, Leo. 05:47.400 --> 05:48.880 Oh, good, all right. 05:48.880 --> 05:51.640 Just for the record, I am a very big fan of the Pink Jump. 05:51.640 --> 05:53.360 I did think it was very nice. 05:53.360 --> 05:54.200 All right, thank you. 05:54.200 --> 05:55.040 Thank you. 05:55.040 --> 05:56.800 It was the, it was the context. 05:56.800 --> 05:59.080 You're confirming everything, 05:59.080 --> 06:01.360 everybody thinks about Brits right now, Will. 06:01.360 --> 06:03.040 You understand that. 06:03.040 --> 06:04.080 Well, why is that? 06:04.080 --> 06:05.560 I don't know why that is. 06:05.560 --> 06:10.080 I've never met a more macho, manly, you know, people as a whole. 06:10.080 --> 06:11.600 Are you kidding me, Leo? 06:12.720 --> 06:15.160 It's like 70% of all British men are gay. 06:15.160 --> 06:16.000 Oh, wait a minute. 06:16.000 --> 06:17.960 You see, you see, you see. 06:17.960 --> 06:19.560 Well, let's slow down a little bit. 06:19.560 --> 06:21.240 Now, before we get into it. 06:21.240 --> 06:23.240 You're living in San Francisco while you're saying that. 06:23.240 --> 06:24.080 Don't get too excited. 06:24.080 --> 06:26.560 At least skew the results a little bit. 06:26.560 --> 06:30.800 And he has an I Want You poster as his icon on Skype, 06:30.800 --> 06:32.440 so I don't know what that means. 06:32.440 --> 06:33.840 And what neighborhood are you living in? 06:33.840 --> 06:35.800 I think may as well get all the facts out. 06:35.800 --> 06:36.640 Now, come on. 06:36.640 --> 06:38.160 Not that there's anything wrong with that, 06:38.160 --> 06:39.000 but we're getting back to it. 06:39.000 --> 06:39.840 There's nothing wrong with that. 06:39.840 --> 06:40.800 Getting back to what you were saying 06:40.800 --> 06:42.920 about podcasting and advertising. 06:42.920 --> 06:45.440 I think that that's an interesting juxtaposition. 06:45.440 --> 06:47.640 You obviously were talking about Google ads 06:47.640 --> 06:49.480 versus podcast ads. 06:49.480 --> 06:50.920 And I think that that is one of the strengths 06:50.920 --> 06:52.720 of podcasting ads. 06:52.720 --> 06:55.440 They're personal as opposed to impersonal. 06:55.440 --> 06:57.160 Well, from a business perspective, 06:57.160 --> 06:58.600 and I've always made very clear, 06:58.600 --> 07:01.600 pod show is about commercializing whatever we can 07:01.600 --> 07:03.600 in this new media revolution. 07:05.560 --> 07:09.440 Google is extremely successful with their ad words. 07:09.440 --> 07:10.440 There's no doubt about it. 07:10.440 --> 07:12.120 They've turned advertising on their head. 07:12.120 --> 07:14.840 But the big end game that even Google 07:14.840 --> 07:17.600 is working towards is brand advertising 07:17.600 --> 07:19.320 and creating an affinity. 07:19.320 --> 07:20.800 And if you look at the relationship 07:20.800 --> 07:22.600 between the producer of a podcast 07:22.600 --> 07:25.360 who is also often a host and the audience, 07:25.400 --> 07:29.440 that's what they call the customer engagement, 07:29.440 --> 07:30.800 what we call audience, Leo. 07:30.800 --> 07:33.080 Engagement is the big word in advertising right now, 07:33.080 --> 07:33.920 isn't it? 07:33.920 --> 07:35.760 Right, but it's all about audience. 07:35.760 --> 07:37.560 And no matter what you're talking about, 07:37.560 --> 07:39.160 your audience will, they'll buy stuff 07:39.160 --> 07:40.840 that you're not even getting paid to promote. 07:40.840 --> 07:44.640 Mostly that's the case, because we have so few advertisers. 07:44.640 --> 07:46.480 Well, I'm happy to talk to you about that, sir. 07:46.480 --> 07:47.320 You know that. 07:49.160 --> 07:50.640 First of all, I actually would like to ask you 07:50.640 --> 07:52.400 a little bit about pod show. 07:52.400 --> 07:55.120 Because it isn't exactly clear what the notion is. 07:55.120 --> 07:56.480 Some people said you're trying to build 07:56.480 --> 07:59.520 a new media network. 07:59.520 --> 08:00.760 Is it an advertising network? 08:00.760 --> 08:01.800 Is it a network of programs? 08:01.800 --> 08:04.000 What exactly is the plan with pod show? 08:04.000 --> 08:06.960 Well, it is a new media network. 08:06.960 --> 08:10.680 Because in order to have network entertainment, 08:10.680 --> 08:12.760 you have to be able to do the networking side 08:12.760 --> 08:15.120 and the entertainment side. 08:15.120 --> 08:17.360 And it's all built around our version 08:17.360 --> 08:18.840 of an advertising platform. 08:18.840 --> 08:23.720 The way we sell packages to advertisers, 08:23.720 --> 08:26.680 the way we work with producers and hosts, 08:26.680 --> 08:28.360 who we have relationships with, or things 08:28.360 --> 08:29.440 that we create ourselves. 08:29.440 --> 08:30.920 And it does make sense to integrate that 08:30.920 --> 08:33.080 across the board, I have to say. 08:33.080 --> 08:35.080 You have to scale it, absolutely. 08:35.080 --> 08:39.080 And also, advertisers are looking for, 08:39.080 --> 08:40.560 I'm sorry, advertisers, of course, 08:40.560 --> 08:42.200 are looking for their audience. 08:42.200 --> 08:44.720 But the agencies they work with, 08:44.720 --> 08:46.800 they're looking for a place where they can go 08:46.800 --> 08:48.320 where they're going to get consistency. 08:48.320 --> 08:49.800 They know what's going to be delivered. 08:49.800 --> 08:52.320 They know how it's going to be reported to them. 08:52.320 --> 08:54.400 So that's kind of where we fit in. 08:54.400 --> 08:55.400 And it's going well. 08:55.400 --> 08:58.400 Adam, I've got to say, if your advertisers are looking 08:58.400 --> 09:01.120 for that much, they're ahead of the curve in a lot of places. 09:01.120 --> 09:02.360 Because most of the places I've seen 09:02.360 --> 09:05.120 are trying to define how video and audio 09:05.120 --> 09:06.240 is delivered on the web. 09:06.240 --> 09:08.080 And there's more tracking systems 09:08.080 --> 09:10.440 I've run into in the last year than ever thought 09:10.440 --> 09:11.240 would be possible. 09:11.240 --> 09:13.240 Numbers are the problem, aren't they, really? 09:13.240 --> 09:15.280 Well, what we work on the hardest, 09:15.280 --> 09:18.680 you can't have media change the way it's created, 09:18.680 --> 09:21.880 the way it's distributed, who creates and distributes it. 09:21.880 --> 09:24.760 You can't have that change without advertising changing. 09:24.760 --> 09:26.840 That is what we work on the hardest, 09:26.840 --> 09:28.960 is changing advertising. 09:28.960 --> 09:30.960 And that's what our agency spends a lot of time doing, 09:30.960 --> 09:34.200 educating ad agencies, trying to explain to them, 09:34.200 --> 09:36.320 this is something different. 09:36.320 --> 09:39.760 It's not radio, it's something different. 09:39.760 --> 09:41.640 We don't have to sell it in 30-second chunks 09:41.640 --> 09:44.080 because we have no limitation on time. 09:44.080 --> 09:46.000 Ergo this conversation that's going on. 09:46.000 --> 09:48.080 And on, and on, and on, and on. 09:48.080 --> 09:49.680 And in this week's technique. 09:49.680 --> 09:51.320 I want to talk about Pirate Bay. 09:51.320 --> 09:52.480 It's a little bit of an old story, 09:52.480 --> 09:54.360 but I think since we've got two Brits on here, 09:54.360 --> 09:55.880 or two people who live in Britain anyway, 09:55.880 --> 09:57.440 this is such a tradition in Britain 09:57.440 --> 09:58.960 to have these pirate radio stations, 09:58.960 --> 09:59.800 like Radio Luxiport. 09:59.800 --> 10:00.640 Oh, the Sea Land thing? 10:00.640 --> 10:02.800 Sea Land and Radio Caroline. 10:02.800 --> 10:06.040 Now Pirate Bay, the BitTorrent tracker site 10:06.040 --> 10:08.880 that has been up and down in Sweden, 10:08.880 --> 10:10.840 is trying, I think it's more publicity than anything else, 10:10.840 --> 10:12.800 but wants to buy Sea Land. 10:12.800 --> 10:15.520 Sea Land's got a kind of crazy quilt history. 10:15.520 --> 10:18.480 Will Harris, are you following this story? 10:18.480 --> 10:19.880 Yeah, it's pretty crazy. 10:19.880 --> 10:22.000 I mean, a Sea Land. 10:22.000 --> 10:23.320 Sea Land was... 10:23.320 --> 10:25.280 Well, they might call it Bit Land when they own it. 10:25.280 --> 10:26.360 I don't know. 10:26.360 --> 10:28.320 Like an oil rig. 10:28.320 --> 10:30.240 No, it's a naval platform. 10:30.240 --> 10:31.720 It was for target practice. 10:31.720 --> 10:32.880 Oh, it's a naval platform. 10:32.880 --> 10:33.720 Yeah. 10:33.720 --> 10:36.480 Well, it's a pile of concrete off the British coast. 10:36.480 --> 10:40.280 It looks like a drilling rig, it does. 10:40.280 --> 10:42.320 Well, so I don't know if the guy still owns it, 10:42.320 --> 10:43.320 but for many years, 10:43.320 --> 10:44.160 he does. 10:44.160 --> 10:45.000 There's a guy who lived on Sea Land, 10:45.000 --> 10:47.160 and he had his own passports and his own money, 10:47.160 --> 10:48.960 and he wasn't recognized internationally. 10:49.040 --> 10:52.120 Roy of Sea Land, and he's still there, 10:52.120 --> 10:54.160 and the problem is he's getting old, 10:54.160 --> 10:56.200 and he's trying to sell it off. 10:56.200 --> 10:58.200 But were they ever acknowledged 10:58.200 --> 11:00.080 as a real sovereign nation? 11:00.080 --> 11:01.200 No, I don't think so. 11:01.200 --> 11:05.760 I mean, if they could shut down all of mp3.com in Russia, 11:05.760 --> 11:08.160 eventually, I'm sure they can shut down Sea Land, 11:08.160 --> 11:10.440 so it sounds like more like a publicity stunt to me, 11:10.440 --> 11:11.280 which is a nice one, of course. 11:11.280 --> 11:12.120 So what I want to know is, 11:12.120 --> 11:14.640 if they're going to set up Pirate Bay on Sea Land, 11:14.640 --> 11:16.400 what exactly is the net connectivity 11:16.400 --> 11:17.760 in the middle of the ocean on a naval platform? 11:17.760 --> 11:18.920 Apparently, it's one megabit. 11:18.920 --> 11:20.280 It's not enough to run a track. 11:20.280 --> 11:22.400 Dude, I've got this set up here in my condo. 11:22.400 --> 11:23.400 I can sell it to him. 11:23.400 --> 11:24.240 No condo. 11:24.240 --> 11:25.080 Yeah, I'm gonna come out. 11:25.080 --> 11:25.920 He can wire it for Y5. 11:25.920 --> 11:27.400 It'll be great. 11:27.400 --> 11:29.440 All you need is a Pringles cantana, 11:29.440 --> 11:30.800 and you're set. 11:30.800 --> 11:32.680 Well, of course, the concept with BitTorrent 11:32.680 --> 11:35.360 is that they only have to seed it from Sea Land. 11:35.360 --> 11:37.280 They don't actually have to have all the bandwidth. 11:37.280 --> 11:39.160 But imagine the bandwidth on the Pirate Bay 11:39.160 --> 11:40.000 is pretty serious. 11:40.000 --> 11:42.120 I mean, there's a lot of people using it. 11:42.120 --> 11:43.280 How is all of mp3? 11:43.280 --> 11:44.120 It's still alive. 11:44.120 --> 11:44.960 It's still running. 11:44.960 --> 11:45.800 You can't use a credit card, 11:45.800 --> 11:47.120 but they don't seem like they're out of business. 11:47.120 --> 11:48.480 I don't know how well they're... 11:48.480 --> 11:51.480 I mean, the RIAA's attempt to shut them down 11:51.480 --> 11:52.600 isn't that effective. 11:54.000 --> 11:54.840 Yeah, I don't know. 11:54.840 --> 11:58.240 It's, you know, that's on an agenda somewhere at the UN. 11:58.240 --> 11:59.360 Oh, it's on a big agenda. 11:59.360 --> 12:01.240 Absolutely, you know. 12:01.240 --> 12:03.160 You think it's really on a big agenda? 12:03.160 --> 12:05.440 Well, if the United States it is. 12:05.440 --> 12:06.280 Yeah, I mean, there's... 12:06.280 --> 12:08.440 It's been a part of economic policy 12:08.440 --> 12:09.960 of the United States government 12:09.960 --> 12:12.640 that's been beating on Russia. 12:12.640 --> 12:15.720 It's actually written into these treaties now. 12:16.320 --> 12:17.360 By name. 12:17.360 --> 12:19.400 Well, it's pretty much like the Gucci bags 12:19.400 --> 12:21.640 and the sunglasses that you can buy on any street 12:21.640 --> 12:23.720 in New York or LA or San Francisco. 12:23.720 --> 12:25.960 You know, yeah, they're supposed to be stopping that, too. 12:25.960 --> 12:26.800 Yeah, right. 12:26.800 --> 12:27.640 But it's... 12:27.640 --> 12:29.800 And I tell my wife all the time, 12:29.800 --> 12:31.440 don't buy that shit, man, 12:31.440 --> 12:33.240 because one day someone will rip your shit off 12:33.240 --> 12:35.040 and you'll be really angry. 12:35.040 --> 12:36.240 Adam, I'm gonna have to edit those. 12:36.240 --> 12:37.080 We have a clean tag. 12:37.080 --> 12:37.920 Oh, we can't say that? 12:37.920 --> 12:38.760 We have a clean tag. 12:38.760 --> 12:41.160 This is not the daily source code, my friend. 12:41.160 --> 12:44.160 I can't go around with $13 million 12:44.160 --> 12:46.040 to airplane strap to my Tukas. 12:46.040 --> 12:46.880 It's $15. 12:46.880 --> 12:47.840 $15, I'm sorry. 12:49.080 --> 12:50.560 Actually, that's an interesting story 12:50.560 --> 12:52.480 is Virgin Atlantic's attempt 12:52.480 --> 12:55.160 to get into the U.S. market with a viral video. 12:55.160 --> 12:56.840 Have you seen the viral video? 12:56.840 --> 12:57.680 No, I haven't. 12:57.680 --> 13:00.080 The problem is that U.S. law prohibits 13:00.080 --> 13:03.040 non-U.S. citizens from operating an airline 13:03.040 --> 13:03.920 in the United States. 13:03.920 --> 13:06.560 Virgin would like to get into the U.S. 13:06.560 --> 13:10.200 and the Department of Transportation's blocking them 13:10.200 --> 13:11.160 right now. 13:11.160 --> 13:12.000 And so... 13:12.000 --> 13:12.840 I think Arnold will fix that. 13:12.840 --> 13:14.240 Arnold, if it's coming in and say, 13:14.240 --> 13:16.360 if I can become president, Richard, 13:16.360 --> 13:18.400 you can become an American citizen. 13:19.400 --> 13:21.240 Now, they're doing it through a shell company. 13:21.240 --> 13:22.080 It's a shell. 13:22.080 --> 13:23.200 It's all Americans running it, 13:23.200 --> 13:24.600 but the Department of Transportation 13:24.600 --> 13:26.520 seems not to be swayed. 13:26.520 --> 13:28.080 So now they've gone to YouTube. 13:28.080 --> 13:29.000 And you can actually see this. 13:29.000 --> 13:30.040 Our friend, Alex Lindsey, 13:30.040 --> 13:33.200 produced a commercial for these new jets, 13:33.200 --> 13:34.280 which looks slick. 13:34.280 --> 13:37.200 Linux Box is running with entertainment. 13:37.200 --> 13:40.000 And they're trying to get people to sign petitions, 13:40.000 --> 13:41.320 which I signed, 13:41.320 --> 13:45.000 to get the DOT to get off their B-U-T-T 13:45.000 --> 13:47.200 and let Virgin in. 13:47.200 --> 13:50.720 Now, I fly Virgin once a month, 13:50.720 --> 13:52.720 and their in-flight entertainment system, 13:52.720 --> 13:54.320 which indeed, the one they're using currently 13:54.320 --> 13:55.520 is based on Linux, 13:55.520 --> 13:57.720 because I've seen the boot screen a couple of times, 13:57.720 --> 14:01.000 is phenomenal. 14:01.000 --> 14:03.160 And it's really not just that it works, 14:03.160 --> 14:06.680 but they also refresh the content every month. 14:06.680 --> 14:07.960 They're trying to bring this to the U.S. 14:07.960 --> 14:10.800 They've got RJ-11 jacks at every seat. 14:10.800 --> 14:13.600 They've got standard power supplies at every seat. 14:13.600 --> 14:15.680 Wait, wait, they've got POTS jacks at every seat? 14:15.680 --> 14:17.360 No, no, I'm sorry, IJ-45. 14:17.360 --> 14:18.520 I'm sorry. 14:18.520 --> 14:20.400 I'm sorry, I'm standing in the presence of... 14:20.400 --> 14:21.240 I bow down. 14:21.240 --> 14:22.800 I'm sorry, I'll kiss your ring, too, Patrick. 14:22.800 --> 14:23.640 RJ-45. 14:23.640 --> 14:24.640 No, no, no, I was just sitting there, 14:24.640 --> 14:25.880 I was like, you bring your own phone? 14:25.880 --> 14:27.840 That's amazing. 14:27.840 --> 14:29.880 They've got dial-up networking in every seat. 14:29.880 --> 14:31.240 It's amazing. 14:31.240 --> 14:32.720 No, I don't... 14:32.720 --> 14:34.480 Do they offer internet connectivity 14:34.480 --> 14:35.320 on these Virgin flights? 14:35.320 --> 14:36.880 No, not currently. 14:36.880 --> 14:37.720 They have... 14:37.720 --> 14:40.480 You can use an SMS service. 14:40.480 --> 14:42.040 I wish they would do it, 14:42.040 --> 14:45.080 because that's the only thing missing from that experience. 14:45.080 --> 14:46.120 I love them to death. 14:46.120 --> 14:48.280 I have a million miles, only one million more, 14:48.280 --> 14:50.560 and I can get a free flight on Spaceship One. 14:50.560 --> 14:51.400 Really? 14:51.400 --> 14:52.840 Yeah, two million miles. 14:52.840 --> 14:55.120 How long did it take to get the first million? 14:55.120 --> 14:56.200 A year. 14:56.200 --> 14:57.120 Really? 14:57.120 --> 14:57.960 Yeah, so if I get the second million. 14:57.960 --> 15:00.880 You did a million miles in one year? 15:00.880 --> 15:02.400 Yeah, but there's a lot of bonuses 15:02.400 --> 15:03.920 and promotions in there. 15:03.920 --> 15:04.960 So I probably did the... 15:05.000 --> 15:07.240 Maybe about a quarter million miles, 300,000 miles? 15:07.240 --> 15:09.240 Yeah, I'd say it's about that, yeah. 15:09.240 --> 15:10.680 Good Lord. 15:10.680 --> 15:12.720 It's time to stay home. 15:12.720 --> 15:14.600 Holy cow, that's crazy. 15:14.600 --> 15:17.160 So a million miles and you would get to go to space, 15:17.160 --> 15:18.440 would you do that? 15:18.440 --> 15:19.320 Absolutely. 15:19.320 --> 15:20.320 You would? 15:20.320 --> 15:21.160 Oh, yeah. 15:21.160 --> 15:22.000 Oh, man, I'd love to. 15:22.000 --> 15:23.040 You're talking to the guy 15:23.040 --> 15:25.760 who refused to go in the Blue Angels plane. 15:25.760 --> 15:27.720 Patrick went, but I wouldn't do it. 15:27.720 --> 15:28.760 Well, I'm a pilot, you know, 15:28.760 --> 15:31.240 so I kinda have that bug. 15:31.240 --> 15:32.520 You trust Richard Branson. 15:32.520 --> 15:33.760 One of the features they do have 15:33.760 --> 15:36.320 on these new jets is you can chat 15:36.320 --> 15:37.320 with the other people on the plane. 15:37.320 --> 15:39.280 In fact, they create a chat room 15:39.280 --> 15:40.240 of everybody on the plane, 15:40.240 --> 15:41.520 which you can go into. 15:41.520 --> 15:42.360 Cool. 15:42.360 --> 15:43.960 Is that bizarre? 15:43.960 --> 15:46.280 I don't know exactly what that would be like. 15:46.280 --> 15:47.120 So... 15:47.120 --> 15:49.360 It's a hotty in 24G, look over here, baby. 15:49.360 --> 15:52.040 They also, you can order food from the screen 15:52.040 --> 15:53.200 and they said the stewardesses 15:53.200 --> 15:54.280 will bring it to you, or the... 15:54.280 --> 15:56.840 Can you imagine just like an IRC back channel 15:56.840 --> 15:58.520 at a conference where the stewardesses 15:58.520 --> 16:01.320 or the flight attendant is doing the safety demonstration, 16:01.320 --> 16:05.360 everyone's rankin', rankin' on them in the chat. 16:05.360 --> 16:07.880 It's the bad kids in the back of the class. 16:07.880 --> 16:09.080 I love it. 16:09.080 --> 16:11.080 Oh yeah, the little parking margarine cup attached 16:11.080 --> 16:12.840 to the enema bag's gonna be real useful 16:12.840 --> 16:16.760 in shoulder rolling at 500 miles an hour. 16:16.760 --> 16:18.000 Yeah, I can see that happening. 16:18.000 --> 16:20.680 Netflix is gonna start streaming movies as well. 16:20.680 --> 16:23.800 Now this is something that you won't be able to do, Will, 16:23.800 --> 16:25.320 but those of us who live in the States 16:25.320 --> 16:27.360 will be able to, next to the add button, 16:27.360 --> 16:29.320 where you add a movie to your Netflix queue, 16:29.320 --> 16:30.760 press a play button on some movies 16:30.760 --> 16:34.040 and we'll actually be able to watch it on the net. 16:34.040 --> 16:36.400 We actually had a viewer email us in about this. 16:36.400 --> 16:38.840 It's very similar to a lot of the existing systems, 16:38.840 --> 16:40.920 except for the cinema now, kind of, or... 16:40.920 --> 16:42.920 Yeah, except that apparently Netflix 16:42.920 --> 16:45.000 spent $40 million developing this one. 16:45.000 --> 16:45.840 Wow. 16:46.680 --> 16:49.280 PC-only, IA Internet Explorer-only, 16:49.280 --> 16:52.800 WMV-based encryption it looks like or feels like. 16:52.800 --> 16:55.240 It would have to be, there's no way they'd allow that. 16:55.240 --> 16:58.320 But you can't stop and start and switch films, right? 16:58.320 --> 16:59.920 Well, yeah, and that's what's kind of interesting 16:59.920 --> 17:01.760 is they're charging it based on the amount of time 17:01.760 --> 17:03.800 you physically watch the movie, 17:03.800 --> 17:05.800 which means you have to be logged into the net 17:05.800 --> 17:07.400 every time you wanna watch the movie. 17:07.400 --> 17:08.240 Right. 17:08.240 --> 17:10.040 Because it has to revalidate the DRM, 17:10.040 --> 17:11.920 because it's essentially streaming. 17:11.920 --> 17:14.760 So you're not gonna be able to purchase a movie 17:14.760 --> 17:17.560 or rent a movie and then drive up to the ski house 17:17.560 --> 17:18.400 and watch it there. 17:18.400 --> 17:20.280 You're gonna have to have a broadband connection 17:20.280 --> 17:21.280 anywhere you are. 17:21.280 --> 17:23.520 Reed Hastings, the CEO of Netflix said, 17:23.520 --> 17:24.800 we've gotta have a second act. 17:24.800 --> 17:27.800 Everybody agrees DVDs aren't gonna last forever. 17:27.800 --> 17:29.400 Is this a legitimate second act 17:29.400 --> 17:31.200 or is this just a, I mean, 17:31.200 --> 17:33.200 lots of other players as you point out. 17:33.200 --> 17:35.000 Well, they're in an interesting position 17:35.000 --> 17:36.760 in that they already have, 17:36.760 --> 17:39.920 I've heard numbers as high as 6 million regular subscribers 17:39.920 --> 17:40.760 to their service. 17:40.760 --> 17:41.600 Wow. 17:41.600 --> 17:43.720 So if all of those 6 million subscribers 17:43.720 --> 17:46.680 or even a small percentage or a moderate percentage 17:46.680 --> 17:49.400 of the 6 million subscribers have broadband, 17:49.400 --> 17:51.720 that could give them a pretty huge leg up 17:51.720 --> 17:53.960 over all of these online services. 17:53.960 --> 17:55.960 That said, they suffer from the same problems. 17:55.960 --> 17:58.200 They're claiming they'll be near instantaneous starting, 17:58.200 --> 17:59.920 but people have noted, tried it out. 17:59.920 --> 18:01.720 You know, like I said, we had a viewer who wrote it. 18:01.720 --> 18:04.160 He said, one movie started in like 30 seconds. 18:04.160 --> 18:06.440 It was a black and white Abbott Costello movie. 18:06.440 --> 18:08.960 You know, another movie, which was, you know, 18:08.960 --> 18:10.880 a modern, you know, full color feature. 18:10.880 --> 18:12.640 It took about 15 or 20 minutes to queue 18:12.640 --> 18:13.480 before it started. 18:13.480 --> 18:14.880 That's my problem with all these offerings 18:14.880 --> 18:17.600 is they don't tend to have pirates of the Caribbean 18:17.600 --> 18:18.800 on these streams. 18:18.800 --> 18:20.840 Well, actually a lot of the, a lot of the, 18:20.840 --> 18:23.320 a lot of the, of the major ones, 18:23.320 --> 18:26.800 like the, you know, movie links, cinema and out type ones. 18:26.800 --> 18:27.800 Are they starting to actually 18:28.200 --> 18:29.840 do have, they've had, they've had big movies on 18:29.840 --> 18:30.920 for a very long time. 18:30.920 --> 18:33.920 In fact, I believe movie link was actually started by the, 18:35.600 --> 18:37.560 it's either movie link or cinema now 18:37.560 --> 18:40.680 or both were actually started by the studios. 18:41.680 --> 18:45.840 This, you know, this concept, this business model 18:45.840 --> 18:48.600 of taking Hollywood content, 18:48.600 --> 18:50.960 licensing that for distribution over the internet 18:50.960 --> 18:53.400 I think is seriously flawed. 18:53.400 --> 18:57.080 The distribution costs are going to be enormous. 18:57.640 --> 18:58.840 The bandwidth costs. 18:58.840 --> 19:00.560 To get this to the customer. 19:00.560 --> 19:02.520 And if they make any money, 19:02.520 --> 19:04.320 the first thing that Hollywood is going to do 19:04.320 --> 19:05.720 is renegotiate. 19:05.720 --> 19:07.280 You know, it's, it's a dead end. 19:07.280 --> 19:09.120 It's, it's just like iTunes. 19:09.120 --> 19:09.960 Of course the. 19:09.960 --> 19:11.000 It's just like podcasts 19:11.000 --> 19:12.640 and video delivery online. 19:12.640 --> 19:13.480 Well, no. 19:13.480 --> 19:14.320 How are we different? 19:14.320 --> 19:15.160 How are we different? 19:15.160 --> 19:17.920 It's because we're willing to negotiate 19:17.920 --> 19:21.520 and deal with each other in a much more civilized manner. 19:21.520 --> 19:23.920 Hollywood is all about squeezing the last nickel. 19:23.920 --> 19:25.760 So if you don't own the content 19:25.760 --> 19:28.080 that you're distributing, 19:28.080 --> 19:30.240 you own your content, Leo, that you're distributing. 19:30.240 --> 19:32.960 So you're not going to rob yourself, you know, 19:32.960 --> 19:35.240 but Hollywood, you know, believe me, 19:35.240 --> 19:37.280 Apple does not make a lot of money per track. 19:37.280 --> 19:39.600 In aggregate, if you sell a billion songs, that's great, 19:39.600 --> 19:41.480 but it's not about the music. 19:41.480 --> 19:42.320 And we know that. 19:42.320 --> 19:43.160 Right. 19:43.160 --> 19:44.960 It's not a profit deal for them. 19:44.960 --> 19:46.240 It's about selling iPods. 19:46.240 --> 19:47.600 Yeah, it's about selling the hardware. 19:47.600 --> 19:48.440 Absolutely. 19:48.440 --> 19:49.280 Yeah. 19:49.280 --> 19:51.120 We're talking about squeezing every last. 19:51.120 --> 19:53.160 Are you going to bring up the Zoom? 19:53.160 --> 19:54.280 Yeah, baby. 19:54.280 --> 19:55.120 Tell me about this. 19:55.120 --> 19:56.560 Is this just fraud? 19:56.560 --> 19:57.720 Well, okay, go ahead. 19:57.720 --> 19:58.960 I mean, everybody knows, right? 19:58.960 --> 20:02.240 The Zoom catchphrase is welcome to the social. 20:02.240 --> 20:03.080 Yeah. 20:03.080 --> 20:06.280 By the way, I found a nightclub in Toronto called The Social. 20:06.280 --> 20:08.640 So I finally figured out what that means. 20:08.640 --> 20:10.640 It's this nightclub in Toronto. 20:10.640 --> 20:12.400 They all want you to go there. 20:12.400 --> 20:13.240 No? 20:13.240 --> 20:14.720 But also, we also know that, you know, 20:14.720 --> 20:17.680 Microsoft is pimping the Zoom out to all the big studios 20:17.680 --> 20:19.280 to try and get some support. 20:19.280 --> 20:21.680 So the units and the Sonys and whatever, 20:21.720 --> 20:26.680 well, it turns out now that there are some songs 20:26.680 --> 20:30.480 in the music catalog that you can't squirt. 20:30.480 --> 20:31.200 Not some. 20:31.200 --> 20:35.800 It's quite, somebody told me it's almost half. 20:35.800 --> 20:36.840 It's a huge number. 20:36.840 --> 20:38.400 So how pointless is that? 20:38.400 --> 20:39.520 You can't even squirt them. 20:39.520 --> 20:40.360 I mean, what kind? 20:40.360 --> 20:42.000 These record companies are insane. 20:42.000 --> 20:43.240 The thing is so protected. 20:43.240 --> 20:45.400 You can only three days or three plays 20:45.400 --> 20:48.040 and they don't even want you to do that. 20:48.040 --> 20:50.800 Yeah, it's pretty, I mean, it's pretty bonkers. 20:50.840 --> 20:54.240 It's a bit of a half-cut measure, really, isn't it? 20:54.240 --> 20:55.800 It makes it look like even more of a gimmick 20:55.800 --> 20:56.640 than it was before. 20:56.640 --> 20:57.480 It's kind of stunning. 20:57.480 --> 20:59.880 Is it Sony that's one of the... 20:59.880 --> 21:01.520 It's Universal and Sony, right? 21:01.520 --> 21:03.080 Universal. 21:03.080 --> 21:06.680 That's pretty much, that covers a lot of material. 21:06.680 --> 21:07.520 And you won't know. 21:07.520 --> 21:10.160 You can't tell until you try. 21:10.160 --> 21:13.640 Yeah, and Gadget says it's roughly 40 to 50% of artists. 21:13.640 --> 21:15.840 Unbelievable. 21:15.840 --> 21:17.600 Whereas if they had only made the Zoom 21:17.600 --> 21:21.080 a little bit more compatible with MP3s 21:21.080 --> 21:23.000 and a little more easy to work with MP3s, 21:23.000 --> 21:25.440 I think it would gain a lot more traction. 21:25.440 --> 21:27.840 Hey, if they just supported podcasts. 21:27.840 --> 21:29.000 Yeah, exactly. 21:29.000 --> 21:31.040 Well, that's, you know... 21:31.040 --> 21:33.680 They brought this to market so quickly. 21:33.680 --> 21:35.640 They knew from day one that podcasting 21:35.640 --> 21:37.200 was not gonna be in the first release 21:37.200 --> 21:40.440 and they will support it one way or the other, I'm sure. 21:40.440 --> 21:42.240 I mean, I talked to the product manager 21:42.240 --> 21:46.320 for Windows Media Play 11 last year at CES 2006 21:46.320 --> 21:50.040 and they said, yeah, we really wanna have RSS 21:50.040 --> 21:51.960 and we should have RSS, but we don't 21:51.960 --> 21:54.560 and we're gonna try to add it in as quickly as possible. 21:54.560 --> 21:55.680 You know, and I was kind of sitting there 21:55.680 --> 21:57.560 just kind of like, you're kidding me, right? 21:57.560 --> 21:59.640 You know. 21:59.640 --> 22:01.360 By the way, Adam, you might be interested, 22:01.360 --> 22:06.360 there are 100 Pink Zoons out there to go with your jumper. 22:07.680 --> 22:09.720 It's just random whether you'll get one. 22:10.720 --> 22:12.320 Thanks, Leo, always support me. 22:12.320 --> 22:14.320 Although I understand they're available on eBay 22:14.320 --> 22:16.800 if you really have to have it. 22:16.800 --> 22:19.560 I was at Fry's Electronics in Concord, 22:19.560 --> 22:20.920 which of course is kind of a... 22:20.920 --> 22:22.280 Oh, that's a Mecca. 22:22.280 --> 22:25.320 Yeah, that is a Mecca when you're in Northern California 22:25.320 --> 22:27.560 and it was the first time I was able 22:27.560 --> 22:30.360 to get my hands on a Zoon and I was surprised. 22:30.360 --> 22:31.880 Of course, everyone else who's had, 22:31.880 --> 22:33.520 who's tried one knows this, 22:33.520 --> 22:35.920 but I was surprised that that turn wheel doesn't turn. 22:35.920 --> 22:38.120 It's up down left-right. 22:38.120 --> 22:39.760 Yeah, I was like, huh, it's not working right 22:39.760 --> 22:42.320 and then I figured it out. 22:42.320 --> 22:44.080 I like the Zoon in a lot of ways. 22:44.080 --> 22:45.800 I like the Zoon, but I think it's clear now 22:45.800 --> 22:48.840 that this DRM thing is just broken. 22:48.840 --> 22:50.880 Well, I played Room 1 for the first time at CES 22:50.880 --> 22:52.480 this year, I hadn't seen it before. 22:52.480 --> 22:54.840 And what amazed me was it was basically like, 22:54.840 --> 22:56.640 like the first iPod. 22:56.640 --> 22:58.440 Yeah, it feels like that, doesn't it? 22:58.440 --> 23:01.760 Kind of big and clunky and yeah, you're right. 23:01.760 --> 23:04.280 The interface is pretty clean though. 23:04.280 --> 23:05.120 I like the UI. 23:05.120 --> 23:07.560 I wish there was the word podcaster in the UI. 23:07.560 --> 23:10.480 So you think, Patrick, that they will, 23:10.480 --> 23:12.240 at some point, release an update to the Zoon 23:12.240 --> 23:13.880 and then suddenly you'll see that word podcaster. 23:13.880 --> 23:14.920 Well, they use the word podcaster? 23:14.920 --> 23:17.240 Well, part of the issue with podcasters 23:17.240 --> 23:20.240 is they don't currently have RSS support 23:20.240 --> 23:21.800 in Windows Media Player 11. 23:21.800 --> 23:23.760 And like I said before, that's something 23:23.760 --> 23:26.600 they were aware of being a major flaw 23:26.600 --> 23:29.560 in Windows Media Player 11 12 months ago. 23:29.560 --> 23:32.880 So, WMP11's out, it'd be nice to see them, 23:32.880 --> 23:35.080 maybe after Vista ships, they'll finally turn around 23:35.080 --> 23:38.400 and, you know, because without the RSS integration, 23:38.400 --> 23:39.240 you know what I mean? 23:39.240 --> 23:41.480 Without the RSS screen or podcatcher. 23:42.280 --> 23:43.120 Hey, Patrick. 23:43.120 --> 23:44.520 You can use juice. 23:44.520 --> 23:47.360 You can use the iPod or, you know, juice. 23:47.360 --> 23:49.480 Well, there's a reason such a huge number. 23:49.480 --> 23:52.720 Like, you know, 40% of the people downloading, 23:52.720 --> 23:55.120 like at least 40% of the people downloading, 23:55.120 --> 23:59.400 yeah, for DLTV, use iTunes. 23:59.400 --> 24:00.240 Patrick? 24:00.240 --> 24:01.080 Yeah. 24:01.080 --> 24:04.440 Do you think that the reason why Microsoft 24:04.440 --> 24:07.520 has been so in limbo about RSS in Media Player 24:07.520 --> 24:10.880 and the Zoon is because they were supposed 24:10.880 --> 24:15.880 to be using this central RSS repository in Vista 24:16.480 --> 24:20.160 that is under the hood and that no longer got support 24:20.160 --> 24:21.400 and it's just everyone's confused 24:21.400 --> 24:23.200 about where they should be getting it from? 24:23.200 --> 24:24.480 That would certainly be a start of it. 24:24.480 --> 24:27.600 I also want to say, I was surprised at how fervent 24:27.600 --> 24:31.880 they were about, you know, getting RSS built into IE7. 24:31.880 --> 24:33.360 You know, as part of their sort of checklist 24:33.360 --> 24:34.960 for things they were two years late 24:34.960 --> 24:37.280 on capturing up to Firefox with. 24:37.280 --> 24:38.840 It would make sense though if they'd relied 24:38.840 --> 24:42.520 upon a central capability in Vista 24:42.520 --> 24:44.400 and it was one more thing yanked at a Vista 24:44.400 --> 24:47.040 that, well, all the plans are now on the back burner 24:47.040 --> 24:48.880 because they can't count on it. 24:48.880 --> 24:50.160 That's what I think probably happened. 24:50.160 --> 24:51.320 Yeah, that makes sense. 24:52.320 --> 24:54.160 I would like to see you, Adam, 24:54.160 --> 24:58.320 and other new media people really kind of put some pressure. 24:58.320 --> 25:00.680 Certainly, I've just been outspoken on Microsoft 25:00.680 --> 25:03.600 to really make this a priority, to put this into. 25:03.600 --> 25:05.640 Let me tell you a little story, Leo. 25:06.640 --> 25:11.640 Before Apple integrated podcasting into iTunes, 25:12.320 --> 25:14.480 well before that, probably six months, 25:14.480 --> 25:17.440 my partner and I, Ron Bloom, we went to Microsoft 25:17.440 --> 25:19.720 and we had a number of conversations 25:19.720 --> 25:22.640 and we talked about, we actually were willing 25:22.640 --> 25:25.560 to put our developers to work, 25:25.560 --> 25:28.760 to put a headless version of iPod 25:28.760 --> 25:32.640 or Juicy, if you will, into something 25:32.640 --> 25:34.640 that we would install, that would be on Windows. 25:34.640 --> 25:38.400 We had all these conversations and at that point, 25:38.400 --> 25:40.240 it was like, it's definitely coming in the next release 25:40.240 --> 25:44.440 of Windows Media Player and then we didn't hear anything 25:44.440 --> 25:46.440 and then Apple called and said it had 25:46.440 --> 25:49.280 the exact same spiel to them and they just did it 25:49.280 --> 25:53.000 and they just integrated it and quite honestly, 25:53.000 --> 25:54.120 I'm really tired. 25:54.120 --> 25:57.080 Why the hell should I have to push Microsoft? 25:57.080 --> 25:58.280 It's impossible. 25:58.280 --> 26:00.120 You can't push that company to do anything. 26:00.120 --> 26:00.960 But I'll tell you why, 26:00.960 --> 26:02.760 because 95% of the world's using it. 26:03.680 --> 26:06.720 If they don't support it, we're gonna hit a ceiling. 26:06.720 --> 26:08.400 I think we've hit the ceiling 26:08.400 --> 26:10.440 and we can't go much beyond that 26:10.440 --> 26:13.400 until it's kind of on the desktop in Windows. 26:13.400 --> 26:14.760 Well, that's true, but you have to look 26:14.760 --> 26:19.440 at how many people use iTunes on Windows. 26:19.440 --> 26:22.440 It's all very well saying, 95% of people use Windows. 26:22.440 --> 26:24.760 How many Windows users are using iPod 26:24.760 --> 26:26.160 and therefore using iTunes? 26:26.160 --> 26:29.840 Well, every iPod user on Windows is using iTunes 26:29.840 --> 26:31.720 and so is it really a ceiling? 26:31.760 --> 26:36.080 We see about 70% of all downloads 26:36.080 --> 26:38.800 that are iTunes related coming from the Windows version. 26:38.800 --> 26:42.400 It used to be 50-50 and now it's about 70%. 26:42.400 --> 26:44.200 I think our numbers are something similar, 26:44.200 --> 26:46.120 although it's almost 90% of their listeners 26:46.120 --> 26:48.720 are using iTunes on some platform. 26:48.720 --> 26:51.640 I just think we need an ecology here. 26:51.640 --> 26:53.520 It's Apple's so dominant and it's not. 26:53.520 --> 26:56.520 And again, kudos to Apple for stepping up and doing it. 26:56.520 --> 26:58.040 I'm not complaining about that at all. 26:58.040 --> 26:58.880 I wanna see Microsoft. 26:58.880 --> 27:00.680 Well, we're the open source guys outside of, 27:00.680 --> 27:05.280 I mean, here's what I think happened where we went wrong. 27:05.280 --> 27:08.760 Juice, formerly known as iPod or Lemon. 27:08.760 --> 27:10.640 Which you wrote the first version of. 27:10.640 --> 27:12.280 Yeah, well, I didn't write any of that code 27:12.280 --> 27:15.080 because I think it was in Python initially. 27:15.080 --> 27:17.880 Well, I wrote an Apple script and then it went to Python 27:17.880 --> 27:21.120 and PHP, or it's now it's Python, I think. 27:22.240 --> 27:24.080 What I think they did wrong there 27:24.080 --> 27:26.600 is they then turned it into a player 27:26.600 --> 27:28.640 and that really confuses a lot of people. 27:28.680 --> 27:32.200 It was just a utility, which was what my original script was, 27:32.200 --> 27:33.800 just hidden and doesn't do anything, 27:33.800 --> 27:36.600 but made me notify you of what it's doing. 27:36.600 --> 27:37.720 I think that's where they went wrong 27:37.720 --> 27:41.120 because creating a player is very, very difficult business. 27:41.120 --> 27:42.120 And honestly. 27:42.120 --> 27:44.360 And you don't need to because there is a player. 27:44.360 --> 27:45.520 There's plenty of players. 27:45.520 --> 27:46.800 Yeah, our Windows media player. 27:46.800 --> 27:48.960 I think the more it looks like Windows, the better 27:48.960 --> 27:50.840 and that's why I'd like to see Microsoft. 27:50.840 --> 27:52.120 But you think the open source community 27:52.120 --> 27:54.240 could step up and provide a solution 27:54.240 --> 27:55.960 that people would adopt? 27:55.960 --> 27:57.520 Well, one of two ways, 27:57.520 --> 28:02.080 is maybe someone revisits the whole concept of juice 28:02.080 --> 28:05.680 and creates a new version that somehow makes it clearer 28:05.680 --> 28:10.240 to users and how it integrates with their favorite player. 28:10.240 --> 28:11.080 It's an extension. 28:11.080 --> 28:11.920 It's a widget. 28:11.920 --> 28:14.640 It just does it and then media player takes over. 28:14.640 --> 28:17.680 Yeah, or conversely, the open source community, 28:17.680 --> 28:19.880 of course, could easily create a kick-ass player. 28:19.880 --> 28:23.160 But what I typically find is that it just misses 28:23.520 --> 28:26.080 the beautiful art that Apple cranks out. 28:26.080 --> 28:27.760 It just never looks right. 28:27.760 --> 28:29.680 There's Songbird, which is pretty gorgeous, 28:29.680 --> 28:32.200 but it's hard to get people to download that. 28:32.200 --> 28:35.080 I mean, it certainly hasn't hurt Apple. 28:35.080 --> 28:37.760 They reported on Wednesday that their first quarter profit 28:37.760 --> 28:41.240 was up 78% exceeding Wall Street's expectations, 28:41.240 --> 28:44.520 a profit of $1 billion, 28:44.520 --> 28:48.360 with apologies to Dr. Evil. 28:48.360 --> 28:50.480 That's a buck 14 a share. 28:50.560 --> 28:55.560 iPod sales $21 million in a quarter. 28:55.560 --> 28:56.720 That's pretty astounding. 28:56.720 --> 29:00.480 Total iPod sales $90 million since October 2001. 29:01.280 --> 29:02.120 That's pretty crazy. 29:02.120 --> 29:04.560 Well, do you remember the cassette Walkman's? 29:04.560 --> 29:05.400 Yeah, Sony. 29:05.400 --> 29:07.600 We've been through this before. 29:07.600 --> 29:08.440 You think it'll happen? 29:08.440 --> 29:09.280 Same thing will happen? 29:09.280 --> 29:10.400 Something else will come along? 29:10.400 --> 29:13.480 Or will somebody make a better iPod? 29:13.480 --> 29:15.640 Well, I was thinking about this the other day 29:15.640 --> 29:18.880 and I remember when you just had to have the Walkman. 29:19.520 --> 29:21.160 And if you didn't have the Sony Walkman, 29:21.160 --> 29:24.080 you had the cheesy kind and it's exactly... 29:24.080 --> 29:25.280 You got the shitty headphone... 29:25.280 --> 29:26.120 Oh, sorry, Leo. 29:26.120 --> 29:26.960 You got the crappy... 29:26.960 --> 29:27.800 Can I say crap? 29:27.800 --> 29:29.400 You got the crappy headphone. 29:29.400 --> 29:30.960 You got the crappy headphones 29:30.960 --> 29:35.960 or you don't have the new Dolby DBX noise reduction. 29:36.400 --> 29:39.080 And then something along the way happened 29:39.080 --> 29:42.320 and I'm not quite sure what, honestly. 29:42.320 --> 29:44.280 Then we tried the portable DVD players 29:44.280 --> 29:45.880 that wasn't really too successful 29:45.880 --> 29:48.080 because there was too much skipping, typically. 29:48.120 --> 29:50.680 So maybe it was just pent-up demand 29:50.680 --> 29:52.040 that built over the years. 29:52.040 --> 29:53.000 I remember Patrick, though, 29:53.000 --> 29:58.000 when we saw the first hard drive MP3 players. 29:58.080 --> 29:58.920 Remember that? 29:58.920 --> 29:59.760 What was it? 29:59.760 --> 30:00.600 PJB 100. 30:00.600 --> 30:01.440 Yeah. 30:01.440 --> 30:02.280 That was pretty exciting. 30:02.280 --> 30:03.120 I still have one. 30:03.120 --> 30:03.960 You did? 30:03.960 --> 30:04.800 It was amazing. 30:04.800 --> 30:06.520 There was clearly something special 30:06.520 --> 30:09.320 about the idea of having that many songs in a device. 30:09.320 --> 30:10.600 It wasn't as small as an iPod, 30:10.600 --> 30:12.160 but it was very exciting. 30:12.160 --> 30:14.760 Well, it predated, it was before the iPod. 30:14.760 --> 30:16.880 Well before, yeah, you don't know, I know. 30:16.920 --> 30:18.120 And then there was a company 30:18.120 --> 30:19.840 that was doing that with the Indash. 30:19.840 --> 30:20.680 Was it Q? 30:20.680 --> 30:21.920 What was the name of that? 30:21.920 --> 30:23.120 The MP3 car. 30:23.120 --> 30:24.200 MP3 car, yeah. 30:24.200 --> 30:25.240 Or car MP3.com. 30:25.240 --> 30:28.360 I wonder if some of the impetus for Apple's iPhone 30:28.360 --> 30:32.440 is not to be there when that time has come, 30:32.440 --> 30:35.200 you know, when the iPod reaches end of life 30:35.200 --> 30:37.200 to have the next thing. 30:37.200 --> 30:38.040 Isn't that something? 30:38.040 --> 30:38.880 That's very possible. 30:38.880 --> 30:40.360 Is that what Apple's goal is? 30:40.360 --> 30:44.800 Maybe it's just having another next thing. 30:44.800 --> 30:45.640 Right. 30:46.360 --> 30:48.160 That's how Steve's positioning it for sure. 30:48.160 --> 30:49.000 It's the next thing. 30:49.000 --> 30:51.320 Yeah, when you had the first Motorola flip phones 30:51.320 --> 30:55.800 in 1996, 1997, and everyone loved it 30:55.800 --> 30:57.320 and it was the coolest thing to have, 30:57.320 --> 31:00.040 then all of a sudden they were completely out of style. 31:00.040 --> 31:02.360 It was, you know, they were also breaking 31:02.360 --> 31:04.040 because you'd open it, the lid would flip off 31:04.040 --> 31:06.640 in the space and stuff. 31:06.640 --> 31:09.120 But now the flip phone is, without a doubt, is back. 31:09.120 --> 31:12.200 It's fashion, Leo, it's just fashion. 31:12.200 --> 31:13.480 Yeah, that's a very good point. 31:13.480 --> 31:15.440 And it's hard to influence fashion. 31:15.440 --> 31:18.400 I mean, I don't think Apple, 31:18.400 --> 31:20.600 any more than anybody else has a handle on how to do that. 31:20.600 --> 31:24.160 Ah, but wait, this is where Steve Jobs is brilliant. 31:24.160 --> 31:25.800 You know, he brings in Bono, 31:25.800 --> 31:27.760 the epitome of rock and roll in fashion. 31:27.760 --> 31:28.600 Right. 31:28.600 --> 31:31.000 Whether you, I mean, I don't agree with his fashion sense, 31:31.000 --> 31:32.760 but yeah, exactly, very debatable, 31:32.760 --> 31:37.480 but you know, coming out with a red iPod 31:37.480 --> 31:40.680 for the red brand, that's a huge fashion statement. 31:40.680 --> 31:42.600 That doesn't explain why John Mayer 31:42.600 --> 31:44.320 keeps showing up at the keynotes though. 31:44.320 --> 31:45.160 I don't understand that at all. 31:45.200 --> 31:46.600 But that's also Steve's weird. 31:46.600 --> 31:48.720 I mean, Steve's been obsessed with rock stars forever. 31:48.720 --> 31:49.560 Yes. 31:49.560 --> 31:51.720 He's got this sort of like NPR target audience 31:51.720 --> 31:53.400 for all of his presentations these days. 31:53.400 --> 31:54.600 That's true. Yeah, that's a good point, yeah. 31:54.600 --> 31:55.680 Dude, he's doing a show. 31:55.680 --> 31:58.240 You gotta have different opening and closing acts sometimes, 31:58.240 --> 31:59.440 you know, and you, and you, and sometimes. 31:59.440 --> 32:00.520 Kanye West was great. 32:00.520 --> 32:01.360 I love that. 32:01.360 --> 32:04.200 But John Mayer, I can do without. 32:04.200 --> 32:05.040 I don't know, maybe. 32:05.040 --> 32:06.640 Well, the question is, I mean, can they, can they get, 32:06.640 --> 32:10.040 I mean, the, you know, nobody, nobody at Apple 32:10.040 --> 32:12.120 could have known that the iPod was going to explode. 32:12.120 --> 32:15.120 No, I mean, if you, if you gave this headline to Apple, 32:15.640 --> 32:18.720 you know, five years ago, they would go, huh? 32:18.720 --> 32:20.920 You know, what we make most of our money on what? 32:20.920 --> 32:21.920 A music player? 32:21.920 --> 32:26.320 We are not Apple computer ink, we're just Apple ink, huh? 32:26.320 --> 32:28.720 Although Mac sales were up 40% too. 32:28.720 --> 32:30.920 I mean, Mac sales did well. 32:30.920 --> 32:32.760 Yeah, but it's also, I mean, it's also, 32:32.760 --> 32:34.800 it's a big quarter for spending for a lot of people, too. 32:34.800 --> 32:35.640 Well, but. 32:35.640 --> 32:36.880 For the first time in a while, 32:36.880 --> 32:38.480 everybody wasn't looking around going. 32:38.480 --> 32:41.200 Mac, Mac sales, Mac sales grew at double 32:41.200 --> 32:42.840 the growth of overall PC market. 32:42.880 --> 32:45.680 I mean, it was a good quarter for Apple. 32:45.680 --> 32:48.400 Yeah, but it'll be curious to see what the next quarter is like. 32:48.400 --> 32:49.400 People were waiting for Vista. 32:49.400 --> 32:52.200 A lot of pent up demand is coming out. 32:52.200 --> 32:53.440 You think they'll, you think they'll be glad 32:53.440 --> 32:55.000 they waited for Vista, Patrick? 32:56.720 --> 32:57.760 Oh, I don't know. 32:57.760 --> 33:01.120 Vista's, I, I, you know, Vista's, 33:01.120 --> 33:03.600 Vista's better than Windows ME. 33:05.880 --> 33:07.960 You know, Walt Mossberg in the journal this week 33:07.960 --> 33:09.640 said something that kind of surprised me 33:09.640 --> 33:11.400 because lately he's been a bit of an Apple cheerleader. 33:11.400 --> 33:13.840 He said, this is the best version of Windows ever. 33:13.840 --> 33:15.080 And frankly, I'd agree with him. 33:15.080 --> 33:17.920 I mean, it's very impressive, but it's, 33:17.920 --> 33:21.000 and then he goes on to say, but it's still Windows. 33:22.040 --> 33:25.000 Cold, but hard, but fair. 33:25.000 --> 33:27.000 He said, yeah. 33:27.000 --> 33:29.640 He said it's more, I mean, and this is true too. 33:29.640 --> 33:32.040 I mean, and I think Microsoft has to respect its DNA. 33:32.040 --> 33:34.200 It's more of Windows. 33:34.200 --> 33:37.280 It's not going to be a revolution. 33:37.280 --> 33:39.720 Well, part of what's interesting is you kind of take a look 33:40.600 --> 33:44.200 and I'm gonna send my apologies out 33:44.200 --> 33:46.160 to the entire open source community 33:46.160 --> 33:48.760 to sort of prevent a flood of email, 33:48.760 --> 33:52.920 but if you step away from Linux and BSD 33:52.920 --> 33:54.520 and the other open source operating systems 33:54.520 --> 33:57.520 and you basically look at the two highest profile 33:57.520 --> 33:59.760 operating systems out there, and again, 33:59.760 --> 34:01.840 don't send me emails saying more people using Linux 34:01.840 --> 34:02.680 than OS 10. 34:02.680 --> 34:04.000 I don't care for the purposes of this operation. 34:04.000 --> 34:05.040 Is that true? 34:05.040 --> 34:06.840 Well, I don't know. 34:06.840 --> 34:08.400 Somebody is asserting that, however. 34:09.120 --> 34:11.160 I'm certainly going to get email if I say 34:11.160 --> 34:12.520 that OS 10 is more popular, 34:12.520 --> 34:14.600 but if you look at the way, I mean. 34:14.600 --> 34:16.520 Actually, more people are using World of Warcraft 34:16.520 --> 34:18.960 as their base operating system than any other. 34:18.960 --> 34:20.720 Or at least to occupy most of their day. 34:20.720 --> 34:22.720 And how about that guy that got the levels? 34:22.720 --> 34:24.520 Burning Crusade, baby. 34:25.320 --> 34:29.320 I was gonna rename to the Burning Crusade, 34:29.320 --> 34:30.560 but then they did that and I couldn't, 34:30.560 --> 34:31.480 so I'm very disappointed. 34:31.480 --> 34:34.720 All I'm thinking is like in the era of cyber war, 34:34.720 --> 34:36.000 France is gonna clean up. 34:36.440 --> 34:39.520 So we should explain the Burning Crusade, 34:39.520 --> 34:40.840 and then we can get back to your, 34:40.840 --> 34:43.160 because we've now gone completely down a rat hole, 34:43.160 --> 34:47.760 but the newest, actually the first expansion pack 34:47.760 --> 34:48.880 for World of Warcraft is out. 34:48.880 --> 34:51.840 Burning Crusade allows you to go to a whole new world 34:51.840 --> 34:56.680 and allows you to go from the top 60 to 70 now, 34:56.680 --> 34:57.920 which is one beta. 34:57.920 --> 35:01.680 It's the version of 11 for World of Warcraft users. 35:01.680 --> 35:04.040 And I just want you to know I am not a geek. 35:04.040 --> 35:05.880 I am a level 12 paladin, baby. 35:07.320 --> 35:08.160 And, uh... 35:08.160 --> 35:09.000 Dude, that's Paul. 35:09.000 --> 35:09.840 You're a casual player. 35:09.840 --> 35:11.720 Somebody did that, somebody did that in, 35:11.720 --> 35:13.040 yeah, I'm a very casual player. 35:13.040 --> 35:14.760 Somebody did that, you said in 28 hours 35:14.760 --> 35:16.240 a French fella did that to a 10. 35:16.240 --> 35:17.080 Leveled up 10. 35:17.080 --> 35:17.920 From 60 to 70. 35:17.920 --> 35:18.760 Unbelievable. 35:18.760 --> 35:20.440 And reported the whole thing on YouTube. 35:20.440 --> 35:22.120 Is it on YouTube? 35:22.120 --> 35:22.960 I'm pretty sure. 35:22.960 --> 35:23.960 A 28 hour mirror. 35:25.200 --> 35:26.920 Perhaps they fast forwarded through it. 35:26.920 --> 35:27.760 All right, so. 35:27.760 --> 35:28.600 Just the highlights. 35:28.600 --> 35:29.440 So that's the Burning Crusade rat hole. 35:29.440 --> 35:30.680 Let's get back to what you were saying, 35:30.680 --> 35:33.280 which was, I forgot something about Linux. 35:33.720 --> 35:35.600 Looking at the way the two major players, 35:35.600 --> 35:37.280 like I think in the public spine, 35:37.280 --> 35:38.720 there's two major players right now 35:38.720 --> 35:40.120 for personal operating systems. 35:40.120 --> 35:42.320 And there's Apple and there's Microsoft. 35:42.320 --> 35:43.640 And Apple's, you know, they've always, 35:43.640 --> 35:45.560 you know, every three years they wipe off 35:45.560 --> 35:47.160 an entire generation of hardware. 35:47.160 --> 35:49.640 And now they're basically doing these sort of annual, 35:49.640 --> 35:53.280 you know, little more than annual updates to OS 10. 35:53.280 --> 35:54.640 And, you know, they charge you 35:54.640 --> 35:57.560 what's starting to look more and more like a fair amount. 35:57.560 --> 35:59.320 If a video game can cost 60 bucks, 35:59.320 --> 36:02.920 an operating system at 120 doesn't sound too bad. 36:02.920 --> 36:05.200 Versus the sort of massive attempts 36:05.200 --> 36:07.440 to rewrite Microsoft's operating system 36:07.440 --> 36:09.600 coupled with a massive cost to upgrade. 36:09.600 --> 36:11.800 What is it like for most people to be at least 100 36:11.800 --> 36:14.160 and many 200 and more, right? 36:14.160 --> 36:16.440 Yeah. To get to ultimate anyway. 36:16.440 --> 36:19.720 Yeah, well, ultimate's fascinating, but, you know, 36:19.720 --> 36:21.480 I mean, it's, you know, we're, what, 36:21.480 --> 36:22.800 two weeks less than two weeks away 36:22.800 --> 36:24.120 at this point from the release. 36:24.120 --> 36:24.960 That's right. 36:24.960 --> 36:25.800 The consumer version. 36:25.800 --> 36:26.920 Yeah. 36:26.920 --> 36:28.600 Actually, I wonder if anybody's pre-ordering for that. 36:28.600 --> 36:31.320 But it's just, it's such a very different, you know, 36:31.320 --> 36:32.280 Apple's kind of like, hey, 36:32.360 --> 36:33.120 we've got the, you know, 36:33.120 --> 36:35.400 we've got the foundation is good. 36:35.400 --> 36:37.040 We've got these open source cats 36:37.040 --> 36:38.560 that are doing great things with the kernel 36:38.560 --> 36:40.000 and we're just gonna keep plugging away. 36:40.000 --> 36:41.000 I'm excited about leopard. 36:41.000 --> 36:43.280 I think it's got a long way off. 36:43.280 --> 36:46.240 Interesting twist, however, to this Apple story. 36:46.240 --> 36:49.320 You know, that all the Core 2 Macs 36:49.320 --> 36:51.840 have come with, it turns out, 36:51.840 --> 36:54.040 airport cards that could do 802.11 36:54.040 --> 36:57.680 and it does require a firmware patch 36:57.680 --> 37:00.320 and Apple's claiming that it's Sarbanes Oxley 37:00.360 --> 37:02.480 that's making them charge a buck 99. 37:02.480 --> 37:03.960 It's some weird accounting rule 37:03.960 --> 37:06.920 that since they've already booked the revenue 37:06.920 --> 37:08.880 from selling these machines, 37:08.880 --> 37:09.920 if they're going to upgrade, 37:09.920 --> 37:11.000 I don't buy this. 37:11.000 --> 37:11.840 Anybody buy this, 37:11.840 --> 37:13.400 if you're gonna upgrade the capabilities of the machine, 37:13.400 --> 37:14.800 they have to charge you a buck 99. 37:14.800 --> 37:16.000 What? 37:16.000 --> 37:16.840 Well, I can't support it. 37:16.840 --> 37:18.800 I think it's true. 37:18.800 --> 37:20.440 Adam, did you study accounting in school? 37:20.440 --> 37:22.160 Cause we need some help here. 37:22.160 --> 37:24.480 Well, no, but I did run my own public company. 37:24.480 --> 37:27.160 So, you know, bad socks. 37:27.160 --> 37:30.000 Well, this is before socks. 37:30.000 --> 37:32.440 I mean, Sarbanes Oxley has been a class weird. 37:32.440 --> 37:33.280 Yeah. 37:33.280 --> 37:35.520 As somebody, like one of my best friends is an accountant, 37:35.520 --> 37:37.840 if you wanna hear him sort of go off in strange directions, 37:37.840 --> 37:38.920 just bring up socks. 37:38.920 --> 37:40.520 This was the U.S. law that came in 37:40.520 --> 37:42.120 after the Enron scandal, 37:42.120 --> 37:45.440 to, well, one hoped to add transparency 37:45.440 --> 37:46.920 and accounting. 37:46.920 --> 37:50.560 Well, it used to be much easier to indeed, 37:50.560 --> 37:53.920 if you, so from what I understand of it, 37:53.920 --> 37:55.720 and I certainly don't want to be an expert 37:55.720 --> 37:57.440 or know everything about it, 37:57.440 --> 38:00.200 they did recognize the revenue from this in advance, 38:00.200 --> 38:02.560 which of course is something that props up your 10 Q 38:02.560 --> 38:04.440 and your quarterly numbers. 38:04.440 --> 38:07.000 And I think it used to be a lot easier 38:07.000 --> 38:10.280 to explain that away later 38:10.280 --> 38:12.400 without charging the customer for it. 38:12.400 --> 38:13.240 I understand. 38:13.240 --> 38:15.360 When I download an update to software for free, 38:15.360 --> 38:17.560 doesn't that add value to the software 38:17.560 --> 38:19.760 and wasn't that revenue already recognized? 38:19.760 --> 38:21.200 I'm not, I don't, I don't get it. 38:21.200 --> 38:22.880 Well, I think this is, 38:22.880 --> 38:24.360 I think this is something to follow 38:24.360 --> 38:27.000 because if this is a trend, 38:27.000 --> 38:29.960 then it may very well be that you have to, 38:29.960 --> 38:31.200 you know, pay for this stuff 38:31.200 --> 38:33.440 where it has to be accounted for some way 38:33.440 --> 38:36.040 directly with the consumer instead of, you know, 38:36.040 --> 38:38.000 between balance sheets within a corporation. 38:38.000 --> 38:39.320 That could be pretty messed up. 38:39.320 --> 38:41.720 So I do have my eye on this one. 38:41.720 --> 38:43.520 See that's actually got a pretty good article 38:43.520 --> 38:44.520 written up on this. 38:44.520 --> 38:47.600 And they're saying basically this was a choice 38:47.600 --> 38:49.000 of how to book the revenue. 38:49.000 --> 38:51.880 And they're probably a little bit conservative 38:51.880 --> 38:53.160 given the option scandal. 38:53.160 --> 38:54.840 The SEC is looking closely at them. 38:54.880 --> 38:57.400 This might be a good time to tow the line. 38:57.400 --> 38:59.080 Here's another thought. 38:59.080 --> 39:01.160 Is it possible this is a licensing issue 39:01.160 --> 39:03.360 that if you, you know, they put something in 39:03.360 --> 39:04.840 that they license. 39:04.840 --> 39:05.680 They have to pay for. 39:05.680 --> 39:08.800 Yeah, they have to pay for per user essentially 39:08.800 --> 39:09.640 if it's activated. 39:09.640 --> 39:10.480 Could it be that? 39:10.480 --> 39:12.120 It does seem a rather token amount. 39:12.120 --> 39:15.200 I mean, Apple probably will have some revenue from this 39:15.200 --> 39:16.640 but not a significant amount. 39:17.840 --> 39:19.240 I'll pay it, it's a buck 99. 39:19.240 --> 39:22.160 I mean, I'll pay it to get in in my MacBook Pro 39:22.160 --> 39:24.440 but it just, it's an odd thing to do. 39:24.440 --> 39:25.640 The good news is the current, 39:25.640 --> 39:27.680 the new U.S. Congress is apparently 39:27.680 --> 39:29.320 reevaluating Sarbanes-Oxley. 39:29.320 --> 39:31.520 So maybe this is something that... 39:31.520 --> 39:35.320 Well, we're in deep Kimche with Sarbanes-Oxley. 39:35.320 --> 39:36.760 Another word for crap Leo. 39:38.760 --> 39:40.720 No, I mean, this is really horrible. 39:40.720 --> 39:43.760 All the, the IPO market has gone overseas. 39:43.760 --> 39:46.120 It's in London is thriving now 39:46.120 --> 39:47.600 and just look at the, you know, the dollars. 39:47.600 --> 39:49.120 Is that what happened to IPO? 39:49.120 --> 39:51.640 We haven't had an IPO in years. 39:51.640 --> 39:53.760 Certainly no tech IPO in years. 39:53.760 --> 39:55.040 Nobody wants to do it. 39:55.040 --> 39:55.880 An alternative. 39:55.880 --> 39:57.680 Even GoDaddy came right up to the line 39:57.680 --> 39:59.640 and said, whoa, and backed off. 39:59.640 --> 40:00.480 Yep. 40:00.480 --> 40:02.400 And that's cause of socks. 40:02.400 --> 40:03.240 Oh, absolutely. 40:03.240 --> 40:04.080 Very interesting. 40:04.080 --> 40:06.120 Well, it sounds like a bad law if it's doing. 40:06.120 --> 40:08.160 While we're on the topic of... 40:08.160 --> 40:09.000 Bad laws? 40:09.000 --> 40:11.440 Sort of, you know, I was gonna go with 40:11.440 --> 40:14.560 the transmission and sort of data rates and things. 40:14.560 --> 40:16.520 Well, I was absolutely amazed to see this month 40:16.520 --> 40:18.680 that the latest issue of Playboy 40:18.680 --> 40:21.880 has got a two page editorial on net neutrality, 40:21.880 --> 40:24.480 FCC and bandwidth utilization. 40:24.480 --> 40:26.080 Well, I only read it for the pictures, 40:26.080 --> 40:27.600 so I must have missed that. 40:27.600 --> 40:30.000 Well, the article was written three months ago. 40:30.000 --> 40:31.160 Has it changed now? 40:32.160 --> 40:34.680 Well, no, it's just, that's their lead time 40:34.680 --> 40:36.080 is three months. 40:36.080 --> 40:36.920 Oh, I see. 40:36.920 --> 40:39.320 So it was a big story three months ago. 40:39.320 --> 40:40.160 Yep. 40:40.160 --> 40:42.400 I mean, I thought it was amazing that the tech community 40:42.400 --> 40:44.240 has done such a great job of making 40:44.240 --> 40:45.480 such a who heart out of this 40:45.480 --> 40:46.800 that it can reach something, you know, 40:46.800 --> 40:49.200 as completely mainstream as Playboy. 40:49.200 --> 40:51.080 Well, I don't know if it was the tech community 40:51.080 --> 40:52.640 so much as the content community 40:52.640 --> 40:54.920 that made such a huge noise about it. 40:54.920 --> 40:56.200 I thought it was Trisha Helfer. 40:56.200 --> 41:00.680 Playboy makes a lot of money online. 41:00.680 --> 41:01.520 You know what I mean? 41:01.520 --> 41:02.440 It's certainly in their, yeah, 41:02.440 --> 41:04.320 absolutely in their interest to keep an eye on it. 41:04.320 --> 41:05.160 Yeah. 41:05.160 --> 41:06.840 They certainly took their time and sort of, 41:06.840 --> 41:08.480 you know, I mean, what was the gist of the, 41:08.480 --> 41:10.600 what was the gist of the article? 41:10.600 --> 41:13.640 It was just basically saying how absolutely useless 41:13.640 --> 41:15.720 the FCC was, how it was in the grasp 41:15.720 --> 41:17.680 of all the big content companies 41:17.680 --> 41:18.640 and that it was giving, you know, 41:18.640 --> 41:21.000 it was trying to stiff users effectively. 41:21.000 --> 41:22.720 By selling out to all these people 41:22.720 --> 41:25.920 and that the FCC had gone, had lost its remit 41:25.920 --> 41:27.600 of public service and they basically become 41:27.600 --> 41:29.360 a sort of business evangelist. 41:30.440 --> 41:33.000 Which is, well, I think this whole net neutrality 41:33.000 --> 41:35.840 debate has been a very feudal one. 41:35.840 --> 41:37.880 And I don't, I'm not even sure I understand 41:37.880 --> 41:39.560 what people are trying to communicate 41:39.560 --> 41:41.360 with net neutrality, nor do I believe 41:41.360 --> 41:44.640 that these people understand what networking is 41:44.640 --> 41:46.280 and what it costs to make a network 41:46.280 --> 41:48.360 and to maintain it and how that's utilized. 41:48.360 --> 41:49.760 You say these people, who do you mean? 41:49.760 --> 41:51.680 Do you mean the Congress or do you mean? 41:51.680 --> 41:54.160 No, everybody who was yelling and screaming 41:54.160 --> 41:56.000 about net neutrality. 41:56.000 --> 41:59.760 You think that, so you're in the AT&T court on this one. 42:00.880 --> 42:04.760 No, I'm not necessarily in either court, 42:04.760 --> 42:08.000 but I do know a lot about networking 42:08.000 --> 42:12.040 and when you see what it, look, it's all about money. 42:12.040 --> 42:14.160 It's very expensive to set up a network 42:14.160 --> 42:15.840 and if you have lots of traffic, 42:15.840 --> 42:18.200 that means more switches, bigger switches, 42:18.200 --> 42:20.220 that comes at a huge cost. 42:20.220 --> 42:25.220 So I'm not necessarily against ISPs and telcos 42:26.960 --> 42:29.720 charging the content providers for that distribution. 42:29.720 --> 42:33.040 Oh, but it sounds like then you've got this kind of toll road, 42:33.040 --> 42:35.680 this gerrymandered network where every time 42:35.680 --> 42:38.160 you wanna go somewhere, you've gotta pay a little fee 42:38.160 --> 42:39.600 because we've got toll roads everywhere. 42:39.600 --> 42:40.440 Is that what we want? 42:40.440 --> 42:44.200 I'm also not worried about the sheer force 42:44.200 --> 42:47.840 of human beings to get something 42:47.880 --> 42:51.080 if they want it, no matter if they have to beg, 42:51.080 --> 42:52.880 steal, or borrow to get it. 42:52.880 --> 42:54.200 Mostly. 42:54.200 --> 42:56.040 There will be alternatives, 42:56.040 --> 42:58.360 but we already have a toll road. 42:58.360 --> 43:00.120 I pay for bandwidth going out 43:00.120 --> 43:01.480 and you pay for bandwidth coming in. 43:01.480 --> 43:02.880 The toll road's already there. 43:02.880 --> 43:04.400 There's nothing new here. 43:04.400 --> 43:05.240 Yeah, but let's not add more. 43:05.240 --> 43:07.640 The AT&T, the toll road needs to be paid for. 43:07.640 --> 43:10.800 Although it's our, but we're paying for it now 43:10.800 --> 43:14.040 and it's a variable cost and it's competition. 43:14.040 --> 43:15.840 Adam, we're arguing on the same side. 43:16.400 --> 43:19.440 AT&T basically claims that they can't deliver. 43:19.440 --> 43:22.440 They can't deliver the download. 43:22.440 --> 43:26.160 Ironically, they've kind of backed off on this. 43:26.160 --> 43:27.520 They said, we'll never do that. 43:27.520 --> 43:30.680 We didn't mean that and we don't wanna do it. 43:30.680 --> 43:31.920 Oh, I think they will, Leo. 43:31.920 --> 43:33.520 I think they will most definitely do it, 43:33.520 --> 43:36.840 but they won't do it to people 43:36.840 --> 43:41.840 who are providing media and other content 43:42.160 --> 43:44.680 peer to peer or one to few 43:44.680 --> 43:46.600 or even one to many. 43:46.600 --> 43:51.600 It'll really come companies like YouTube, PodShow, Google, 43:51.800 --> 43:53.640 a Tweet may have to deal with that as well 43:53.640 --> 43:55.400 because you're just pushing tremendous amounts 43:55.400 --> 43:57.960 of bandwidth through their system. 43:57.960 --> 44:00.440 So basically, let me see if I got this straight at them. 44:00.440 --> 44:03.320 I'm paying Comcast a bloody fortune 44:03.320 --> 44:05.080 for my connectivity, 44:05.080 --> 44:07.120 which I can't actually reach 44:07.120 --> 44:08.800 with any single provider 44:08.800 --> 44:10.520 that can actually saturate that connection 44:10.520 --> 44:12.960 because I don't deserve to get the bandwidth 44:12.960 --> 44:14.160 I think I'm paying for. 44:15.160 --> 44:16.520 Well, I don't think anyone has said 44:16.520 --> 44:18.560 it's exactly going to be like that. 44:18.560 --> 44:22.080 I think that there's been talk of prioritization packets. 44:22.080 --> 44:26.680 No, not reach and have a different priority 44:26.680 --> 44:28.520 or two different things. 44:28.520 --> 44:32.120 I think that there will definitely be levels 44:32.120 --> 44:35.240 of the so-called toll road 44:35.240 --> 44:37.840 that will depend upon amount of media, 44:37.840 --> 44:40.240 quality of media and consistency 44:40.240 --> 44:41.600 that is being sent down the pipe. 44:41.600 --> 44:43.600 I don't think anyone's going to get cut off 44:43.600 --> 44:45.480 and I don't think the consumer, 44:45.480 --> 44:48.200 and we already have all kinds of restrictions 44:48.200 --> 44:52.120 on running servers on your ISP connections. 44:52.120 --> 44:54.120 This has been around for a long, long time. 44:54.120 --> 44:56.680 I'm talking about getting the download speed 44:56.680 --> 44:58.160 I think I'm paying for. 44:58.160 --> 45:00.680 Well, I think that's a different issue. 45:00.680 --> 45:04.040 We have thousands of users that find themselves 45:04.040 --> 45:07.640 dealing with packet shaping issues on the ISP level. 45:07.640 --> 45:09.320 But this is a misnomer 45:09.360 --> 45:13.240 because it's been marketed incorrectly 45:13.240 --> 45:14.720 or maybe very correctly. 45:14.720 --> 45:17.640 When someone sells you an eight-megabit connection 45:17.640 --> 45:21.960 and you see a video coming down at two megabits per second, 45:21.960 --> 45:23.480 there's a lot of stuff in the middle 45:23.480 --> 45:26.200 that that eight-megabit connection has no control over. 45:26.200 --> 45:28.200 I'm not talking about eight megabits to two megabits. 45:28.200 --> 45:30.000 I'm talking about people being 45:30.000 --> 45:31.840 throttled to 20 or 50k. 45:32.800 --> 45:35.480 We were seeing 500k to a megabit 45:35.480 --> 45:36.560 suddenly finding themselves 45:36.560 --> 45:38.080 and not because they've hit a monthly cap 45:38.080 --> 45:39.680 and they amounted a lot of download. 45:39.680 --> 45:42.000 The people universally suddenly can't get it. 45:42.000 --> 45:43.880 Downloads paid from certain sites higher. 45:43.880 --> 45:46.160 Well, this is already happening. 45:46.160 --> 45:47.640 This is already happening 45:47.640 --> 45:50.000 because their networks can't handle the amount of traffic. 45:50.000 --> 45:53.120 Is this the old argument though 45:53.120 --> 45:56.800 that we can't sustain flat rate pricing on data. 45:56.800 --> 45:59.440 We've got to go back to per-bit pricing. 45:59.440 --> 46:03.040 I mean, isn't that something people would like to do too? 46:03.040 --> 46:05.160 Wouldn't that solve the issue? 46:05.160 --> 46:06.960 Customers want flat rate. 46:07.000 --> 46:08.960 Just look at cell phone plans. 46:08.960 --> 46:11.200 When networking started, 46:11.200 --> 46:14.640 we came up with this whole idea of a peering agreement 46:14.640 --> 46:16.800 precisely because the telcos 46:16.800 --> 46:18.080 didn't really have the capability 46:18.080 --> 46:19.840 or the horsepower at the time 46:19.840 --> 46:21.680 to be able to calculate every bit 46:21.680 --> 46:22.840 that passed through their routers 46:22.840 --> 46:23.760 and who would belong to 46:23.760 --> 46:27.800 like they were used to doing with telephone minutes 46:27.800 --> 46:29.440 because there's something at the end of every month 46:29.440 --> 46:30.360 that's called settlement 46:30.360 --> 46:32.920 and all the telcos exchange all their records 46:32.920 --> 46:34.120 and hey, I paid you. 46:34.120 --> 46:35.280 I sent this much your way. 46:35.280 --> 46:37.200 I sent this much my way. 46:37.200 --> 46:38.920 We're gonna either wash it out 46:38.920 --> 46:41.520 or you owe me money or I owe you money 46:41.520 --> 46:45.040 and these peering agreements started basically by saying, 46:45.040 --> 46:46.040 look, we can't count it 46:46.040 --> 46:48.560 but we can't see exactly what's coming through you 46:48.560 --> 46:49.800 or is directed towards you 46:49.800 --> 46:52.160 but it's kind of the same amount so we're peers. 46:52.160 --> 46:54.840 And so yes, I think the only way to do it 46:54.840 --> 46:57.880 is to go back to actual packet counting. 46:57.880 --> 46:58.720 At a cost. 46:58.720 --> 47:00.440 I mean, that means all of a sudden 47:00.440 --> 47:02.080 you're putting switches and routers everywhere. 47:02.080 --> 47:03.000 You're measuring everything. 47:03.000 --> 47:05.320 There's some bottlenecking. 47:05.320 --> 47:06.320 At the end of the day though, 47:06.320 --> 47:08.520 I think the consumer will win big time. 47:08.520 --> 47:10.040 I think exactly the opposite. 47:10.040 --> 47:13.800 The consumer at home is going to get fantastic throughput 47:13.800 --> 47:15.120 from anything they want. 47:16.240 --> 47:17.320 Well, you know, it's funny. 47:17.320 --> 47:18.560 If they're willing to pay for it 47:18.560 --> 47:19.920 and their ISP is willing to pay for it. 47:19.920 --> 47:21.120 Well, here's a, I mean, 47:21.120 --> 47:23.520 we have listeners in Sweden who continually tell me, 47:23.520 --> 47:26.640 oh, hey, we get 100 megabit downloads 47:26.640 --> 47:27.840 for 20 bucks a month. 47:27.840 --> 47:30.040 Why is it so cheap there? 47:30.040 --> 47:31.720 It's subsidized by the government. 47:31.720 --> 47:33.480 The government's paying for it. 47:33.480 --> 47:34.800 Is that what you wanted, Will? 47:34.800 --> 47:35.640 Thank you. 47:35.640 --> 47:36.480 Sure. 47:36.480 --> 47:38.920 And I think our government should pitch in too. 47:38.920 --> 47:41.480 In fact, I believe that's part of the net neutrality debate 47:41.480 --> 47:43.960 is that there was lots of money allocated 47:43.960 --> 47:45.920 towards the telcos years ago 47:45.920 --> 47:47.760 and they were supposed to build out their networks 47:47.760 --> 47:48.680 and they didn't really do it. 47:48.680 --> 47:52.840 And I think that's where a lot of anger stems from. 47:52.840 --> 47:54.400 But yeah, this is just important to me 47:54.400 --> 47:57.280 as the electricity grid or the water network. 47:57.280 --> 48:00.280 Why wouldn't the government at least have some involvement 48:00.280 --> 48:02.280 or set some type of regulation? 48:02.280 --> 48:04.040 I'm not against that. 48:04.040 --> 48:06.720 And just in case you think this is a dead issue, 48:06.720 --> 48:08.600 the new Congress has in fact reintroduced 48:08.600 --> 48:09.840 a net neutrality bill, 48:11.000 --> 48:12.760 a pro-net neutrality bill, I might add, 48:12.760 --> 48:14.080 and as long as we're talking about it. 48:14.080 --> 48:16.400 Which is just pandering towards constituents 48:16.400 --> 48:18.200 because they don't know what the hell they're talking about. 48:18.200 --> 48:20.000 It's a series of tubes. 48:21.000 --> 48:23.360 So you're saying it's us that's dumb 48:23.360 --> 48:25.520 and Ted Stevens knew what he was talking about. 48:25.520 --> 48:26.840 He was right on the money, man. 48:26.840 --> 48:29.320 He sent the truck my way just this morning. 48:29.360 --> 48:30.200 I got the internet. 48:30.200 --> 48:32.360 I won't work out on the smoking. 48:32.360 --> 48:33.520 There's a new bill actually. 48:33.520 --> 48:35.800 As long as we're talking about Congress, 48:35.800 --> 48:38.360 the Senate introduced a bill called the Platform, 48:38.360 --> 48:40.080 I should say the US Senate, 48:40.080 --> 48:42.320 introduced a bill called the Platform Equality and Remedies 48:42.320 --> 48:43.800 for Rights Holders in Music Act, 48:43.800 --> 48:46.560 a nice acronym that stands for Perform. 48:46.560 --> 48:47.960 This is a bill that died, 48:47.960 --> 48:51.040 an RIA bill that died last year. 48:51.040 --> 48:52.960 It would require content protection 48:52.960 --> 48:54.880 on all satellite radio broadcasts. 48:54.880 --> 48:56.000 You might be interested in this, Adam, 48:56.000 --> 48:57.600 since you do stuff on Sirius, 48:57.640 --> 49:00.640 along with cable and internet broadcasts. 49:00.640 --> 49:02.560 Broadcasters would be required to use 49:02.560 --> 49:06.440 reasonably available and economically reasonable technology 49:06.440 --> 49:09.000 to prevent music theft. 49:09.000 --> 49:12.040 Another misunderstood conversation 49:12.040 --> 49:15.000 that has produced a knee-jerk reaction. 49:15.000 --> 49:17.640 Well, you've done a lot for PodSafe music 49:17.640 --> 49:20.040 with your PodSafe network. 49:20.040 --> 49:21.640 Exactly, that's the point. 49:21.640 --> 49:23.760 And that's what this is about. 49:23.760 --> 49:25.960 It's about licensing and money. 49:26.000 --> 49:29.760 There's huge forces at work who make money 49:29.760 --> 49:32.880 based upon the reuse of content, 49:32.880 --> 49:35.520 musical works, the publishing predominantly, 49:35.520 --> 49:38.720 but also the duplication rights. 49:38.720 --> 49:41.160 And it's always been a nice little game. 49:41.160 --> 49:43.360 You have the 6,000 radio stations, 49:43.360 --> 49:44.600 they all have to pay X amount 49:44.600 --> 49:46.840 based upon how many listeners they have. 49:46.840 --> 49:48.520 And the way that money is divided 49:48.520 --> 49:51.360 within the performing rights societies, 49:51.360 --> 49:55.400 ASCAP BMI has always been a very fuzzy black box, 49:55.400 --> 49:57.000 let the people who want to make money 49:57.000 --> 49:57.960 are making the money. 49:57.960 --> 50:02.040 And what the PodSafe music revolution did is said, 50:02.040 --> 50:05.520 hey, that's fine, we want your stuff protected 50:05.520 --> 50:08.200 and we don't necessarily believe in DRM. 50:08.200 --> 50:13.200 So trust your co-license agreement partners 50:13.200 --> 50:17.240 on this, mainly podcasters, and give your stuff for free. 50:17.240 --> 50:20.040 And let them play it and we'll tell you 50:20.040 --> 50:22.040 when it was played and then you can go 50:22.040 --> 50:25.120 and build your business and everything's fair. 50:25.160 --> 50:27.000 There's no money exchanging hands though. 50:27.000 --> 50:30.080 So it's only about licensure? 50:30.080 --> 50:32.960 It's merely just so that they know what's going on. 50:32.960 --> 50:34.600 I mean, they're getting value in terms 50:34.600 --> 50:35.600 of promotional value. 50:37.400 --> 50:42.400 They're getting huge value and not just financial value, 50:42.600 --> 50:45.760 but there is a tremendous social reward. 50:45.760 --> 50:48.200 It's something very, if you got a recommendation 50:48.200 --> 50:50.480 like, oh, you were looking for the Rolling Stones, 50:50.480 --> 50:52.200 you might want to check out Brother Love 50:52.200 --> 50:54.280 and I'd listen to a song 50:54.280 --> 50:55.960 and maybe I'd buy a CD, 50:55.960 --> 51:00.960 but when the creator of a product like a song 51:01.000 --> 51:02.640 is played on a show, 51:02.640 --> 51:05.360 basically someone who's telling his thousand friends 51:05.360 --> 51:07.760 or more, hey, check this out. 51:07.760 --> 51:09.040 I really love this guy. 51:09.040 --> 51:10.200 In fact, I love it so much 51:10.200 --> 51:12.840 and I'm gonna play it back to back five times. 51:12.840 --> 51:14.520 That is a great feeling. 51:14.520 --> 51:17.120 That's what motivates people, I think, more than money 51:17.120 --> 51:20.440 and from one can, typically, you can create the other. 51:20.440 --> 51:22.000 Brother Love's very happy. 51:22.000 --> 51:23.800 I know he's got a lot of notoriety now 51:24.080 --> 51:26.160 and it's done a great thing for him, I think. 51:26.160 --> 51:27.760 Hey, Will, you had some stories 51:27.760 --> 51:28.840 that you wanted to bring up. 51:28.840 --> 51:30.800 Have we covered them or I'm looking for them 51:30.800 --> 51:32.640 and I don't see them here, what? 51:32.640 --> 51:35.280 I put them in the four-tweet kind of bucket. 51:35.280 --> 51:36.120 Ah, they're in four-tweet? 51:36.120 --> 51:38.360 Well, bring them up, tell me what you would like to say. 51:38.360 --> 51:39.440 I can't remember what it is, man. 51:39.440 --> 51:40.280 All right, I'll have to, 51:40.280 --> 51:42.120 I'm still looking at Tricia Helfer's layout 51:42.120 --> 51:47.120 and Playboy, so let me load delicious speaking up. 51:47.680 --> 51:49.400 Which was shot three years ago. 51:49.400 --> 51:50.600 Was it really? 51:50.600 --> 51:51.760 Of course. 51:51.760 --> 51:52.640 Took forever. 51:52.640 --> 51:55.320 Now that she's a star on Battlestar Galactica. 51:56.240 --> 51:58.200 Poor kid. 51:58.200 --> 52:00.900 Apple says Cisco lawsuit is silly. 52:02.040 --> 52:05.480 Apple actually has an interesting loophole. 52:05.480 --> 52:08.520 Apparently Cisco held that trademark for iPhone 52:08.520 --> 52:10.280 for six years before they released an iPhone 52:10.280 --> 52:14.200 just before Apple did, hoping to revive the trademark. 52:14.200 --> 52:15.960 But the patent and trade office says 52:15.960 --> 52:18.680 over nine different organizations 52:18.680 --> 52:21.400 have claimed ownership over the iPhone patents. 52:21.400 --> 52:22.840 Yeah, that's what Apple said as well. 52:22.840 --> 52:24.720 So I think Apple's gonna get away with it 52:24.720 --> 52:27.160 and Cisco's trademark is gonna look like 52:27.160 --> 52:29.200 it's not gonna get it because they didn't use it 52:29.200 --> 52:30.040 for too long. 52:30.040 --> 52:30.880 They didn't use it. 52:30.880 --> 52:31.720 People are using it in the meantime. 52:31.720 --> 52:33.080 They didn't use it. 52:33.080 --> 52:36.280 And also, there's a great video on YouTube 52:36.280 --> 52:40.520 of Steve Bulma, Microsoft being asked about the iPhone 52:40.520 --> 52:42.000 and he puts on this really stupid, 52:42.000 --> 52:45.360 like affected kind of snort, laugh, hybrid 52:45.360 --> 52:46.880 and looks like complete idiot. 52:48.080 --> 52:50.280 It really looks like he's actually quite nervous 52:50.280 --> 52:52.560 about the iPhone and is doing his best 52:52.560 --> 52:56.520 to make it not seem so, yes? 52:56.520 --> 52:57.520 It's pretty hilarious. 52:57.520 --> 52:59.240 Should I play a little bit of that? 52:59.240 --> 53:00.080 Yeah, go ahead. 53:00.080 --> 53:02.280 Steve, let me ask you about the iPhone 53:02.280 --> 53:04.280 and the Zoom, if I may. 53:04.280 --> 53:06.080 Zoom was getting some traction 53:06.080 --> 53:08.360 and Steve Jobs goes to Macworld 53:08.360 --> 53:10.320 and he pulls out this iPhone. 53:10.320 --> 53:12.760 What was your first reaction when you saw that? 53:13.640 --> 53:17.160 $500 fully subsidized with a plan. 53:17.160 --> 53:20.080 I said that is the most expensive phone in the world 53:20.080 --> 53:22.200 and it doesn't appeal to business customers 53:22.200 --> 53:23.960 because it doesn't have a keyboard. 53:23.960 --> 53:25.360 He almost sounds like he's crying. 53:25.360 --> 53:26.200 I'll be honest with you. 53:26.200 --> 53:30.080 He doesn't sound too happy about that. 53:31.080 --> 53:33.520 He says something really interesting there, 53:33.520 --> 53:34.520 though, about the keyboard, 53:34.520 --> 53:37.280 which I'm very interested in as well. 53:37.280 --> 53:39.560 I have not held an iPhone. 53:39.560 --> 53:42.960 I do have a Nokia N800 internet tablet. 53:42.960 --> 53:44.040 You love that thing. 53:44.040 --> 53:45.800 You've been raving about that thing. 53:45.800 --> 53:48.520 Yeah, and at first I thought this on-screen keyboard 53:48.520 --> 53:52.440 was really no good because you have no tactile response, 53:52.440 --> 53:56.520 but I forced myself to relearn 53:56.520 --> 53:59.240 how to use a different type of keyboard. 53:59.240 --> 54:01.560 And I have to say, it's kind of growing on me 54:01.560 --> 54:05.080 and to hear Balmer laugh like that, 54:05.080 --> 54:06.920 I think he has to be careful. 54:06.920 --> 54:10.480 Well, he's also, I mean, that's classic Balmer kind of redirect. 54:10.480 --> 54:11.320 I mean. 54:11.320 --> 54:12.160 Well, but he makes a point. 54:12.160 --> 54:13.080 It's very expensive. 54:13.080 --> 54:14.040 There is no keyboard. 54:14.040 --> 54:17.240 Everybody's kind of conditioned to the trio BlackBerry model 54:17.240 --> 54:18.480 where you have a little keyboard. 54:18.480 --> 54:20.440 Although Jobs addressed that in his keynote, 54:20.440 --> 54:22.760 said, we don't think this is a good idea. 54:22.760 --> 54:25.120 I did talk to David Pogue of the New York Times 54:25.120 --> 54:26.960 who actually typed on the thing for about 20 minutes 54:26.960 --> 54:29.080 and said it's very hard to type on. 54:29.080 --> 54:31.200 Yeah, but it takes a lot longer than 20 minutes 54:31.200 --> 54:32.040 to get used to it. 54:32.040 --> 54:33.440 I'm a BlackBerry fiend. 54:33.440 --> 54:35.200 I actually gave that up for my Nokia, 54:35.200 --> 54:37.600 what is it, E61, which has, 54:37.600 --> 54:39.080 it does have a regular keyboard, 54:39.080 --> 54:44.080 but it's not in the patented fan configuration. 54:45.600 --> 54:47.320 So that took me a little while to learn. 54:47.320 --> 54:51.080 And I don't know, I was pretty much against the whole 54:51.080 --> 54:54.400 on-screen keyboard and user interface. 54:54.400 --> 54:56.600 I'm starting to back out a little bit. 54:56.600 --> 54:59.960 Did you have a 770 or is this 800 that you're first in? 54:59.960 --> 55:00.800 No, I did not. 55:00.800 --> 55:03.320 This is, I would never buy anything like that. 55:03.320 --> 55:07.120 Nokia sent me this and I was happy to try it out 55:07.120 --> 55:09.280 and I'm quite enamored with what it does. 55:09.280 --> 55:10.120 It's basically, I think. 55:10.120 --> 55:10.960 It's very small. 55:10.960 --> 55:12.080 It's almost a little tablet, 55:12.080 --> 55:13.600 but it's not a full-sized tablet. 55:13.600 --> 55:14.880 It's a small screen. 55:14.880 --> 55:17.000 It's a small screen, but what's nice about it, 55:17.000 --> 55:17.840 well, there's two things. 55:17.840 --> 55:20.280 One is it doesn't have a phone integrated, 55:20.280 --> 55:22.920 but it communicates with your phone through Bluetooth 55:22.920 --> 55:26.200 so you can get a wireless data connection. 55:26.200 --> 55:28.880 It does all the remembering of your Wi-Fi points 55:28.880 --> 55:30.160 and switches automatically. 55:30.160 --> 55:32.200 But the most interesting thing about it, 55:32.200 --> 55:33.600 and I don't hear anyone, you know, 55:33.600 --> 55:37.480 this whole conversation about iPhone being open or closed, 55:37.480 --> 55:38.560 the Nokia is open. 55:38.560 --> 55:40.200 It's Linux. 55:40.200 --> 55:41.880 It's built on Debian, I think, 55:41.880 --> 55:43.480 Debian flavor of Linux. 55:43.480 --> 55:46.000 And there's an active developer community 55:46.000 --> 55:47.360 creating applications for it. 55:47.360 --> 55:49.960 It's got GPS in the chip. 55:49.960 --> 55:52.240 It's even got radio in the chip. 55:52.240 --> 55:53.480 It's got an onboard camera. 55:53.480 --> 55:54.840 It's got all the things there. 55:54.840 --> 55:56.840 And it's immensely slow, though. 55:56.840 --> 55:58.520 No, no, not at all. 55:58.520 --> 56:00.040 It's as bad as it is at X-Scale, 56:00.040 --> 56:00.880 what's in there? 56:00.880 --> 56:03.240 Both generations, and it just seems, 56:03.240 --> 56:06.040 it takes an incredible amount of patience 56:06.040 --> 56:08.400 to wait for even basic web pages to load. 56:08.400 --> 56:10.720 Really, on the N800? 56:10.720 --> 56:11.560 Yeah. 56:11.560 --> 56:13.800 Oh, no, that hasn't bothered me at all. 56:13.800 --> 56:15.280 No, I mean, I have to say, 56:15.760 --> 56:16.600 what do you use it for? 56:16.600 --> 56:18.600 Is it for going about town? 56:18.600 --> 56:19.440 Yeah, good question. 56:19.440 --> 56:23.000 Now, I use it for basically for Gmail. 56:23.000 --> 56:25.560 And if I just want to look at something, 56:25.560 --> 56:27.280 I download podcasts with it 56:27.280 --> 56:29.080 and listen to them on the device. 56:29.080 --> 56:30.800 But I will say I use the, 56:30.800 --> 56:33.040 even though it has a full-functioning Opera 56:33.040 --> 56:36.600 browser inside, which supports Flash 7, 56:36.600 --> 56:40.040 which is also quite nice for a Linux-based device. 56:41.040 --> 56:46.040 I use Gmail Mobile, which, of course, 56:46.040 --> 56:48.080 loads really fast and just works. 56:48.080 --> 56:50.600 But you can drag the screen around with your fingers. 56:50.600 --> 56:52.320 You don't have to necessarily use scroll bars. 56:52.320 --> 56:55.480 You can just tap, hold, and move a webpage left, right, 56:55.480 --> 56:57.640 and up, down in any direction you want. 56:57.640 --> 56:58.480 Oh, that's nice. 56:58.480 --> 57:00.120 That's kind of like the iPhone, really. 57:00.120 --> 57:02.200 So you're really using your hands 57:02.200 --> 57:03.920 to do more with the interface 57:03.920 --> 57:05.760 than a mouse click and point. 57:05.760 --> 57:07.280 It's interesting, and I think there 57:07.280 --> 57:09.240 is something to explore there. 57:09.240 --> 57:10.680 I think that's one of the things people 57:10.680 --> 57:12.680 were very interested in with the iPhone 57:12.680 --> 57:14.320 and the Safari browser on the iPhone. 57:14.320 --> 57:15.800 And maybe we are entering a new world 57:15.800 --> 57:19.280 of touch-screen user interfaces. 57:19.280 --> 57:22.080 Maybe there's some progress to be made there. 57:22.080 --> 57:25.480 Well, it's open source, so I think developers 57:25.480 --> 57:29.800 should go to, what is it, maibo.org, m-a-e-b-o.org, 57:29.800 --> 57:33.800 and jump in, because people are creating stuff. 57:33.800 --> 57:35.120 Let me ask you about this, Patrick. 57:35.120 --> 57:36.560 You work for ZIF Davis. 57:36.560 --> 57:40.960 According to hard OCP, ZIF's going to be broken up and sold. 57:40.960 --> 57:43.600 Bids were due on Friday. 57:43.600 --> 57:45.160 Do you know anything about that? 57:45.160 --> 57:47.080 Yeah, this is an eight-month-old story 57:47.080 --> 57:50.600 that I apparently just picked up on. 57:50.600 --> 57:52.320 There's nothing, they didn't add anything new. 57:52.320 --> 57:53.960 They said that the PC and gaming division 57:53.960 --> 57:55.560 would be broken up, that's not new. 57:55.560 --> 57:57.680 Well, there is no PC and gaming division. 57:57.680 --> 57:59.360 There's three divisions to the companies, 57:59.360 --> 58:01.280 the Enterprise, Consumer and Small Business, 58:01.280 --> 58:02.560 and the gaming division. 58:02.560 --> 58:04.320 The gaming division is the gaming magazines 58:04.440 --> 58:06.560 and the enterprise is... 58:06.560 --> 58:08.680 They picked this up by the, I should point out, 58:08.680 --> 58:11.000 from the Post, the New York Post. 58:12.080 --> 58:15.400 You know, what's, they've been shopping 58:15.400 --> 58:16.480 all three divisions. 58:16.480 --> 58:19.400 I think the books have been shopped 58:19.400 --> 58:21.960 for the gaming division and enterprise already. 58:21.960 --> 58:23.400 The final division being shopped 58:23.400 --> 58:25.120 is the Consumer and Small Business division, 58:25.120 --> 58:25.960 which is my work. 58:25.960 --> 58:28.360 Doesn't, oh, does it impact you at all? 58:28.360 --> 58:30.520 Well, you know, how many sales do we go through 58:30.520 --> 58:33.040 at ZDTV, DetectTV, that'd be two. 58:33.600 --> 58:35.640 I went through my last ZIF Davis sale. 58:35.640 --> 58:38.000 I'm not going through any more ZIF Davis sales. 58:38.000 --> 58:40.160 I mean, I went through, what, three or four? 58:40.160 --> 58:41.640 Three or four, yeah. 58:41.640 --> 58:42.640 DetectTV was sold in June. 58:42.640 --> 58:45.720 I was with it, I started it in 94 58:45.720 --> 58:47.920 when it was still owned by the ZIF family. 58:47.920 --> 58:49.320 Yeah, so when Bill Ziff owned it, 58:49.320 --> 58:51.680 he went from Bill Ziff to a holding company 58:51.680 --> 58:52.680 to a holding company. 58:52.680 --> 58:53.840 To SoftBank to... 58:53.840 --> 58:54.960 SoftBank to... 58:54.960 --> 58:56.440 To Paul Allen. 58:56.440 --> 58:57.280 Paul Allen. 58:57.280 --> 58:58.440 I left before Comcast. 58:58.440 --> 59:00.200 No, I guess I didn't leave before Comcast, 59:00.200 --> 59:01.040 so I guess... 59:01.040 --> 59:02.040 Yeah, you were out right before that close. 59:02.040 --> 59:03.160 Was it just before that closed? 59:03.160 --> 59:04.600 All right, and a good thing too. 59:04.600 --> 59:06.000 Let me tell you, I'm happy. 59:06.000 --> 59:07.720 I have some ZIF Davis related news. 59:07.720 --> 59:09.200 Oh, yes? 59:09.200 --> 59:12.360 Well, former ZIF Davis employee, Natalie Del Conte, 59:12.360 --> 59:15.080 will start her own video news show 59:15.080 --> 59:18.240 called Tech Check on Pod Show in a couple weeks. 59:18.240 --> 59:19.080 Excellent. 59:19.080 --> 59:21.040 How many shows are on Pod Show now? 59:22.760 --> 59:24.080 Do you have any idea? 59:24.080 --> 59:27.520 Yeah, on the network itself, we have 5,000 59:27.520 --> 59:30.920 and of those 5,000, about 500, 59:30.920 --> 59:33.360 we have expanded agreements with 59:33.360 --> 59:36.080 and who are making upfront money, et cetera. 59:36.080 --> 59:37.560 That's impressive. 59:37.560 --> 59:38.840 Now, is she making upfront money 59:38.840 --> 59:41.120 or is she doing this on spec? 59:41.120 --> 59:43.920 Oh, Natalie is working for us full-time on this. 59:43.920 --> 59:45.040 Oh, good, right. 59:45.040 --> 59:47.920 So, I guess she was in a... 59:47.920 --> 59:48.760 Tech crunch. 59:48.760 --> 59:50.200 Tech crunch. 59:50.200 --> 59:52.040 Interesting, I almost got Mike Harrington on this. 59:52.040 --> 59:54.240 Maybe that's why he didn't want to go on. 59:55.360 --> 59:59.080 He wouldn't let her work for Pod Show 59:59.080 --> 01:00:00.520 and write for Tech Crunch. 01:00:00.600 --> 01:00:02.320 He considers us a competitor. 01:00:02.320 --> 01:00:04.440 That's exactly why I mentioned that you'd be on, Adam. 01:00:04.440 --> 01:00:06.480 All right, just curious. 01:00:06.480 --> 01:00:08.600 The Juiced is on the loose. 01:00:08.600 --> 01:00:10.600 How many of you have played with Juiced 01:00:10.600 --> 01:00:11.440 and what do you think of it? 01:00:11.440 --> 01:00:13.560 This is the new venture from Skype Fullscreen 01:00:13.560 --> 01:00:15.520 television network via streaming. 01:00:17.080 --> 01:00:18.960 Pretty, I have to say, pretty impressive. 01:00:18.960 --> 01:00:21.680 The user interface especially is just gorgeous. 01:00:22.960 --> 01:00:25.640 BitTech does a review of it. 01:00:25.640 --> 01:00:28.800 Let's first ask Nick. 01:00:28.800 --> 01:00:29.640 What do you think? 01:00:29.760 --> 01:00:30.800 What do you say about that, Juiced? 01:00:30.800 --> 01:00:31.440 How do you like Juiced? 01:00:31.440 --> 01:00:33.240 You were the one who put the story in. 01:00:33.240 --> 01:00:35.600 Do you know what I think it's really interesting 01:00:35.600 --> 01:00:39.600 because it's a recognition of what I think 01:00:39.600 --> 01:00:41.960 is one of the big areas of content to come, 01:00:41.960 --> 01:00:44.240 which is like this mid-tail of content. 01:00:44.240 --> 01:00:45.560 If you take like... 01:00:45.560 --> 01:00:48.000 Not long-tail, but mid-tail. 01:00:48.000 --> 01:00:50.200 If you've got the top of the tail, as it were, 01:00:50.200 --> 01:00:53.200 is like your fox and your 24 and lost and whatever. 01:00:53.200 --> 01:00:58.200 You've got YouTube and cat in toilet at the far end. 01:00:58.520 --> 01:01:00.760 And in the middle, you've got this kind of professional 01:01:00.760 --> 01:01:04.480 grade programming that is possibly interest, 01:01:04.480 --> 01:01:07.280 sort of specific and is really, really interesting. 01:01:07.280 --> 01:01:10.280 And Juiced is going around really trying to roll up 01:01:10.280 --> 01:01:12.320 some of that stuff and get it online 01:01:12.320 --> 01:01:16.320 and create real sort of like a TV browser 01:01:16.320 --> 01:01:18.440 and a TV channel, but on your computer 01:01:18.440 --> 01:01:20.800 made up of this really kind of interesting content. 01:01:20.800 --> 01:01:22.880 And I think it's going to be a great home 01:01:22.880 --> 01:01:26.440 for the kind of the dignations and the Mac breaks. 01:01:26.600 --> 01:01:28.560 Right now, you're even seeing much music on it. 01:01:28.560 --> 01:01:31.240 You're seeing some world poker tour on there. 01:01:31.240 --> 01:01:33.680 Adam, you said you sound like you had some thoughts 01:01:33.680 --> 01:01:34.520 about this. 01:01:36.920 --> 01:01:40.000 Yeah, I have not been able to use it. 01:01:40.000 --> 01:01:43.160 I'm still waiting for my beta user password. 01:01:43.160 --> 01:01:45.000 As are a lot of people. 01:01:45.000 --> 01:01:46.720 Yeah, I'm obviously aware of it. 01:01:46.720 --> 01:01:48.240 I think there's a couple of things 01:01:48.240 --> 01:01:50.040 that are wrong with this. 01:01:50.040 --> 01:01:52.800 One, it appears to me that they are soliciting 01:01:52.800 --> 01:01:56.360 mainstream content and building a, 01:01:56.360 --> 01:01:57.880 basically a television service, 01:01:57.880 --> 01:01:59.720 which technically I'm sure is going 01:01:59.720 --> 01:02:02.840 to be extremely well received. 01:02:02.840 --> 01:02:05.320 And I think the experience will be great. 01:02:06.920 --> 01:02:09.640 So we go right back to my example 01:02:09.640 --> 01:02:11.880 of making no money on Hollywood content. 01:02:11.880 --> 01:02:13.040 So I think that's a mistake. 01:02:13.040 --> 01:02:14.680 And then from what I have read 01:02:15.880 --> 01:02:20.480 about their business model in mainstream publications 01:02:20.480 --> 01:02:22.440 that are read, that they're going 01:02:22.440 --> 01:02:25.640 with a form of AdSense type model, 01:02:25.640 --> 01:02:27.200 trying to provide relevancy, 01:02:27.200 --> 01:02:28.720 not just based upon the content, 01:02:28.720 --> 01:02:30.920 but based upon who you are. 01:02:30.920 --> 01:02:33.040 So a lot of pie in the sky type stuff, 01:02:33.040 --> 01:02:36.040 which is not, again, it's not the brand advertising 01:02:36.040 --> 01:02:38.120 I think everyone's looking for. 01:02:38.120 --> 01:02:39.400 So I'd have to really see, 01:02:39.400 --> 01:02:42.200 it all comes down to the content at the end of the day. 01:02:42.200 --> 01:02:45.120 Look at what people are willing to watch on crappy YouTube. 01:02:46.280 --> 01:02:48.560 So can you give me the same hilarious stuff 01:02:49.440 --> 01:02:53.080 on this beautiful high-def type experience? 01:02:53.080 --> 01:02:53.920 You think they should go 01:02:53.920 --> 01:02:56.040 with the user-generated content? 01:02:56.040 --> 01:02:58.920 Well, their distribution, 01:02:58.920 --> 01:03:00.240 they've always relied on other people 01:03:00.240 --> 01:03:01.280 to create the content. 01:03:01.280 --> 01:03:02.400 Skype is the same thing, 01:03:02.400 --> 01:03:03.720 because I was the same thing. 01:03:03.720 --> 01:03:06.200 So other people providing the content 01:03:06.200 --> 01:03:08.160 has made them very successful. 01:03:08.160 --> 01:03:09.880 But I think now they're stepping into a game, 01:03:09.880 --> 01:03:11.960 which I just don't know if there's a game to be had. 01:03:11.960 --> 01:03:15.040 The other issue from what I understand 01:03:15.040 --> 01:03:16.720 is that this thing will chew up 01:03:16.720 --> 01:03:21.720 two to 300 megabytes of data transferred down 01:03:22.680 --> 01:03:25.720 and 150 megabytes of data transferred up 01:03:25.720 --> 01:03:27.560 if you are within the network. 01:03:27.560 --> 01:03:29.840 So I have my doubts about how that's going to sit 01:03:29.840 --> 01:03:32.160 with our ISP friends. 01:03:32.160 --> 01:03:33.240 But at the end of the day, 01:03:33.240 --> 01:03:36.040 I've poo-pooed both of them in the past. 01:03:36.040 --> 01:03:39.800 I met them when they were building Kazab, 01:03:39.800 --> 01:03:41.480 because they were stationed in the North. 01:03:41.480 --> 01:03:42.640 Actually, they were just about to sell it. 01:03:42.640 --> 01:03:44.720 They were stationed in Amsterdam. 01:03:44.720 --> 01:03:46.680 And at the time, I thought, 01:03:46.680 --> 01:03:48.680 man, these wacky guys are out of their mind. 01:03:48.680 --> 01:03:51.200 And I was very wrong about that. 01:03:51.200 --> 01:03:53.400 So they're definitely not stupid, 01:03:53.400 --> 01:03:56.320 and they know how to get press, but... 01:03:56.320 --> 01:03:57.600 And they're good programmers, I think. 01:03:57.600 --> 01:04:00.000 And in each case, they've written really good software. 01:04:00.000 --> 01:04:01.000 This is just as beautiful. 01:04:01.000 --> 01:04:02.920 Wait till you see it, it's beautiful. 01:04:02.920 --> 01:04:04.200 I think it was all, 01:04:04.200 --> 01:04:05.600 they do that in Romania, I think. 01:04:05.600 --> 01:04:06.800 I don't know if they still do it that way, 01:04:06.800 --> 01:04:07.920 but that's how they built a lot of Skype. 01:04:07.920 --> 01:04:08.760 Interesting. 01:04:08.760 --> 01:04:10.360 A lot of Skype and Kazab. 01:04:10.360 --> 01:04:11.560 Yeah, it was just the two of them 01:04:11.560 --> 01:04:12.920 sitting in an office in Amsterdam 01:04:12.920 --> 01:04:15.160 and all their engineers were in Romania. 01:04:16.560 --> 01:04:20.560 But again, is this what we're waiting for? 01:04:20.560 --> 01:04:22.280 Is it, are we waiting for, 01:04:22.280 --> 01:04:24.160 to be able to see the office? 01:04:24.160 --> 01:04:25.640 You could watch the office. 01:04:27.040 --> 01:04:29.000 It's like, no, I don't think so. 01:04:29.000 --> 01:04:31.360 What is six, even downloadable videos, 01:04:31.360 --> 01:04:33.520 I have to question stuff. 01:04:33.520 --> 01:04:36.080 It's like, what is the success of video on the internet? 01:04:36.080 --> 01:04:38.400 No one can deny that it's YouTube. 01:04:38.400 --> 01:04:40.440 And in general, although it's possible, 01:04:40.440 --> 01:04:41.680 people aren't downloading. 01:04:41.680 --> 01:04:43.760 They're just viewing in web browsers. 01:04:43.760 --> 01:04:47.280 And it's some combination of it being simple, 01:04:47.280 --> 01:04:49.240 it working every single time. 01:04:49.240 --> 01:04:50.880 But for it to be funny. 01:04:50.880 --> 01:04:52.920 But for it to mature, doesn't it have to stop 01:04:52.920 --> 01:04:55.640 playing on my web browser and start playing on my TV? 01:04:56.840 --> 01:04:58.480 Well, I think it's two different things. 01:04:58.480 --> 01:05:01.680 The television is morphing dramatically. 01:05:01.680 --> 01:05:03.760 It's become flat, it's become big, 01:05:03.760 --> 01:05:05.920 it's on the wall, it's like a piece of art. 01:05:05.920 --> 01:05:09.600 It's delivering sports, it's delivering news, 01:05:09.600 --> 01:05:12.600 it's delivering a cinema experience, 01:05:12.600 --> 01:05:17.600 which is why I'm not too high on the whole Netflix streaming. 01:05:19.240 --> 01:05:22.400 I don't think it's too much trouble 01:05:22.400 --> 01:05:26.520 for people to go and get a high HD DVD 01:05:26.520 --> 01:05:27.720 if they're gonna watch a movie. 01:05:27.720 --> 01:05:29.880 So do you think that the economy is, 01:05:29.880 --> 01:05:32.600 the good TV is for premium content? 01:05:32.600 --> 01:05:35.480 The computer is for YouTube style? 01:05:35.480 --> 01:05:37.800 No, no, no, don't get me wrong. 01:05:37.800 --> 01:05:39.760 When you say premium content, 01:05:39.760 --> 01:05:42.640 I think I'm talking about quality. 01:05:42.640 --> 01:05:46.240 So you can't watch a sports game 01:05:46.240 --> 01:05:48.600 really effectively on your computer 01:05:48.600 --> 01:05:49.760 with today's technology. 01:05:49.760 --> 01:05:52.520 You wanna watch sports on a big ass screen 01:05:52.520 --> 01:05:55.080 with a whole bunch of your buddies around drinking beer, 01:05:55.080 --> 01:05:56.920 and it's gotta have great sound. 01:05:56.920 --> 01:05:58.520 And it's a whole different type of experience 01:05:58.520 --> 01:06:01.240 and very, very costly to make. 01:06:01.240 --> 01:06:06.240 It's 13 to 20 cameras on any good day at any game. 01:06:06.880 --> 01:06:09.320 And this is just an expensive proposition. 01:06:09.320 --> 01:06:11.160 But what's interesting, Adam, is until YouTube, 01:06:11.160 --> 01:06:13.800 the biggest purveyor video online 01:06:13.800 --> 01:06:15.880 was actually Major League Baseball, 01:06:15.880 --> 01:06:18.960 who were simply taking their rights over the broadcast 01:06:18.960 --> 01:06:20.720 to stream them online and make them available 01:06:20.720 --> 01:06:22.520 and charge money for them. 01:06:22.520 --> 01:06:24.880 Well, interim step, I think, 01:06:24.880 --> 01:06:27.200 and it's a little different than a lot of sports. 01:06:27.200 --> 01:06:31.400 It's not NASCAR, it's not football, it's not soccer. 01:06:31.400 --> 01:06:34.800 Baseball, at times, can be a very, very slow game, 01:06:35.080 --> 01:06:38.120 and that kind of fits in with what you can parse 01:06:38.120 --> 01:06:39.160 through today's technology 01:06:39.160 --> 01:06:41.320 and what you can actually parse with your eyes. 01:06:41.320 --> 01:06:43.080 But for movies, the same thing. 01:06:44.120 --> 01:06:45.960 Yeah, I think there'll be a lot, 01:06:45.960 --> 01:06:47.720 I watch all kinds of movies 01:06:47.720 --> 01:06:49.400 streaming through Windows Media Player. 01:06:49.400 --> 01:06:51.640 I've got my porn accounts, you know, I watch that, 01:06:51.640 --> 01:06:53.160 and it's exactly what I want, you know? 01:06:53.160 --> 01:06:55.240 And I pay per minute, fantastic. 01:06:55.240 --> 01:06:57.400 But if I'm gonna watch a movie 01:06:57.400 --> 01:07:02.040 that $30 to $100 million went into to create, 01:07:02.040 --> 01:07:03.520 I really enjoy it much more 01:07:03.560 --> 01:07:06.280 if I'm watching that in an HD experience. 01:07:06.280 --> 01:07:08.440 I'm not arguing against that, but it's like, 01:07:08.440 --> 01:07:10.480 there's certainly, there's some compelling arguments 01:07:10.480 --> 01:07:13.680 for streaming, live streaming of sporting events, 01:07:13.680 --> 01:07:16.120 and if Major League Baseball can make it work. 01:07:16.120 --> 01:07:17.440 I mean, it's interesting to think about 01:07:17.440 --> 01:07:21.360 what it costs to actually get a 500K or megabit stream, 01:07:21.360 --> 01:07:22.560 you know what I mean, to get it out there 01:07:22.560 --> 01:07:23.880 to people and what it's gonna cost 01:07:23.880 --> 01:07:26.120 in terms of either advertising revenue 01:07:26.120 --> 01:07:28.800 or people being willing to pay for the subscriptions. 01:07:28.800 --> 01:07:30.360 And that latter part, paying for the scripts 01:07:30.360 --> 01:07:31.200 of the subscriptions 01:07:31.200 --> 01:07:32.880 is kind of what made Major League Baseball work. 01:07:33.560 --> 01:07:34.720 You know, it's also interesting to realize 01:07:34.720 --> 01:07:37.440 there's an entire generation that's been perfectly happy 01:07:37.440 --> 01:07:40.880 with media quality MP3s that they download. 01:07:40.880 --> 01:07:43.240 And, you know, I mean, how many people 01:07:43.240 --> 01:07:45.640 have you run into that live off of content 01:07:45.640 --> 01:07:47.440 they download off of peer-to-peer? 01:07:47.440 --> 01:07:49.480 So I think you're right there 01:07:49.480 --> 01:07:51.200 about Major League Baseball, 01:07:51.200 --> 01:07:53.560 but I think the reason, this just proves it, 01:07:53.560 --> 01:07:55.840 the reason why people were willing to subscribe 01:07:55.840 --> 01:07:57.200 to Major League Baseball 01:07:57.200 --> 01:08:00.040 is to be able to see all the games they want to see. 01:08:00.040 --> 01:08:01.200 It wasn't, you know, 01:08:01.200 --> 01:08:04.120 because you just can't get access to the content, 01:08:04.120 --> 01:08:06.640 to all the content in your region. 01:08:06.640 --> 01:08:09.320 That's just the way everything's been set up. 01:08:09.320 --> 01:08:12.080 So that just proves that people will go to any extent 01:08:12.080 --> 01:08:13.960 to get content they really love. 01:08:13.960 --> 01:08:18.240 But television is much more social experience. 01:08:18.240 --> 01:08:19.840 You know, you're watching a game with friends. 01:08:19.840 --> 01:08:22.880 You're watching a movie with your family or friends. 01:08:22.880 --> 01:08:26.560 You're using it as a screen for your Wii. 01:08:26.560 --> 01:08:28.920 You know, it's just a different type of device 01:08:28.920 --> 01:08:29.760 and demands different content. 01:08:29.800 --> 01:08:30.640 It's not that hard. 01:08:30.640 --> 01:08:33.920 It's not that hard to bring online content on your screen. 01:08:33.920 --> 01:08:34.760 It's whether, you know, 01:08:34.760 --> 01:08:35.520 it's how long it's going to take. 01:08:35.520 --> 01:08:36.760 I mean, what's in it? 01:08:36.760 --> 01:08:38.760 Hey, I was watching Studio 40 that downloaded 01:08:38.760 --> 01:08:42.840 from the internet on my Xbox 360 on my HDTV last night. 01:08:42.840 --> 01:08:46.240 That seems, to me, that seems like a perfect world. 01:08:46.240 --> 01:08:48.400 But we've got like 80% of our users download 01:08:48.400 --> 01:08:49.240 rather than streaming. 01:08:49.240 --> 01:08:50.600 And it's a long format program 01:08:50.600 --> 01:08:54.000 and about 20, 25% actually already are watching 01:08:54.000 --> 01:08:56.840 on a television or an HDTV. 01:08:56.840 --> 01:08:58.320 I mean, one of the biggest demands we get 01:08:58.320 --> 01:08:59.840 is people want a widescreen version 01:08:59.840 --> 01:09:00.840 and they want a higher, 01:09:00.840 --> 01:09:02.560 they want basically a higher bit rate version 01:09:02.560 --> 01:09:04.480 that's going to look better on an HDTV. 01:09:04.480 --> 01:09:06.520 I think there's no question we're in a state of flux. 01:09:06.520 --> 01:09:08.640 It's kind of hard to predict exactly what's going to happen. 01:09:08.640 --> 01:09:09.840 I think you both made good points, 01:09:09.840 --> 01:09:10.960 but we're going to wrap this up 01:09:10.960 --> 01:09:12.840 because we're out of time. 01:09:12.840 --> 01:09:13.680 And you know what, Adam? 01:09:13.680 --> 01:09:15.840 I think you've got to come back. 01:09:15.840 --> 01:09:17.160 Oh, I'd love to. 01:09:17.160 --> 01:09:19.160 If you could PayPal me another 20 bucks, I'll. 01:09:19.160 --> 01:09:21.200 We got our 20 bucks worth. 01:09:21.200 --> 01:09:22.520 I'll tell you, even when you convert it 01:09:22.520 --> 01:09:24.920 to British pounds or euros or whatever the hell it is 01:09:24.920 --> 01:09:26.480 you guys use over there. 01:09:26.480 --> 01:09:27.960 I'm really glad you could be here. 01:09:28.000 --> 01:09:30.720 Of course, Pod Show is Adam's great company 01:09:30.720 --> 01:09:32.560 and has done so much to help podcasters. 01:09:32.560 --> 01:09:34.280 I can't, when you say, 01:09:34.280 --> 01:09:37.080 what did you say, 10,000 podcasts on there? 01:09:37.080 --> 01:09:40.480 5,000 on the network, 500 are making upfront money. 01:09:40.480 --> 01:09:41.400 That's fantastic. 01:09:41.400 --> 01:09:44.200 That's just, you know, that's a great boon 01:09:44.200 --> 01:09:46.720 for those 500 and for the 5,000. 01:09:46.720 --> 01:09:47.560 And of course- 01:09:47.560 --> 01:09:48.400 Anyone's welcome to join. 01:09:48.400 --> 01:09:51.200 Daily source code is Adam's own podcast. 01:09:51.200 --> 01:09:53.480 It has been since practically day one. 01:09:53.480 --> 01:09:57.880 I think it's actually the second podcast of all time. 01:09:57.920 --> 01:09:58.800 He's the Pod Father. 01:09:58.800 --> 01:10:00.680 Adam, thank you for joining us. 01:10:00.680 --> 01:10:01.520 Thank you. 01:10:01.520 --> 01:10:03.400 One question, were you wearing the pink jumper? 01:10:03.400 --> 01:10:05.240 No, I'm wearing the turquoise jumper, actually. 01:10:05.240 --> 01:10:06.840 Thank you, very nice, so nice. 01:10:06.840 --> 01:10:08.200 Of course, the American audience is saying, 01:10:08.200 --> 01:10:09.320 what is all this about jumpers? 01:10:09.320 --> 01:10:10.840 They think you're wearing a moomoo or something. 01:10:10.840 --> 01:10:12.960 It's just a sweater, folks. 01:10:12.960 --> 01:10:14.800 It's just a sweater. 01:10:14.800 --> 01:10:19.040 Thanks to Will Harris, bit-tech.net is his website. 01:10:19.040 --> 01:10:21.040 He's the guy who gave us the pink jumper sighting 01:10:21.040 --> 01:10:22.760 and thanks to you, we got Adam on 01:10:22.760 --> 01:10:25.480 and it's great to hear from you as always. 01:10:25.480 --> 01:10:27.080 I get more email when you're on 01:10:27.080 --> 01:10:28.040 than almost anybody else. 01:10:28.040 --> 01:10:31.600 People really like hearing the international perspective. 01:10:31.600 --> 01:10:33.160 It's just a British accent. 01:10:33.160 --> 01:10:34.760 Nobody likes me, it's just the accent. 01:10:34.760 --> 01:10:35.920 It's true, we love the accent. 01:10:35.920 --> 01:10:38.240 You sound so intelligent, you know? 01:10:38.240 --> 01:10:40.840 And bit-tech.net is a great place 01:10:40.840 --> 01:10:43.120 to go to read up on a lot of these stories. 01:10:43.120 --> 01:10:46.280 And of course, Patrick Norton is the host of DL.TV. 01:10:47.360 --> 01:10:50.360 As long as Ziff Davis can hold it together. 01:10:50.360 --> 01:10:51.920 But Patrick, you know there's always a home 01:10:51.920 --> 01:10:53.880 for DLTV no matter where you, you know, 01:10:53.880 --> 01:10:55.240 whatever happens, I don't think 01:10:55.240 --> 01:10:56.360 that's any question about that. 01:10:56.360 --> 01:10:58.360 It's a great show with Robert Herron. 01:10:58.360 --> 01:11:01.360 And Leo, may I thank you for being such a fantastic host. 01:11:01.360 --> 01:11:03.520 It's very difficult having been involved 01:11:03.520 --> 01:11:06.360 with several of these type of roundtable shows. 01:11:06.360 --> 01:11:08.840 There's only three guests, but you do a great job at that 01:11:08.840 --> 01:11:11.240 and my wife just creams over your voice. 01:11:11.240 --> 01:11:15.840 Okay, well while you're busy watching your pay-per-view 01:11:15.840 --> 01:11:19.360 at porn, I might just come over and say hello. 01:11:19.360 --> 01:11:20.360 Oh, you got a deal, man. 01:11:20.360 --> 01:11:22.760 20 bucks, I'll send it back. 01:11:22.760 --> 01:11:23.600 Hey, it really is- 01:11:23.880 --> 01:11:24.720 God show channel. 01:11:24.720 --> 01:11:27.480 It really has been a lot of fun. 01:11:27.480 --> 01:11:29.400 I thank you all and I'm serious, Adam. 01:11:29.400 --> 01:11:32.160 I would love to have you on any time you're interested. 01:11:32.160 --> 01:11:34.840 You had considerably to the panel 01:11:34.840 --> 01:11:35.680 and it's just really great. 01:11:35.680 --> 01:11:36.520 Well, thank you. 01:11:36.520 --> 01:11:38.120 I'd love to and the only reason 01:11:38.120 --> 01:11:39.440 I just haven't hooked it up earlier 01:11:39.440 --> 01:11:42.000 is because I usually travel on Saturday 01:11:42.000 --> 01:11:44.640 and I arrive Sunday and it's midnight where I am. 01:11:44.640 --> 01:11:45.480 So- 01:11:45.480 --> 01:11:48.400 Well, and million dollar, you don't get a million miles 01:11:48.400 --> 01:11:51.520 without doing a considerable amount of time in an airplane. 01:11:51.520 --> 01:11:52.360 That's correct. 01:11:52.400 --> 01:11:56.360 13 or 15 million is not that important. 01:11:56.360 --> 01:11:57.800 Of course, Will is up and then let's see. 01:11:57.800 --> 01:11:59.160 Let's see, Will now it's a, 01:11:59.160 --> 01:12:01.600 what is it about, one in the morning there? 01:12:01.600 --> 01:12:02.440 20 plus 12. 01:12:02.440 --> 01:12:03.600 12, 19, all right. 01:12:03.600 --> 01:12:04.920 I thank you for staying up late. 01:12:04.920 --> 01:12:05.760 Another twit. 01:12:05.760 --> 01:12:06.960 This week in tech. 01:12:06.960 --> 01:12:07.800 He's in the care. 01:12:07.800 --> 01:12:10.800 This week in tech. 01:12:10.800 --> 01:12:13.800 This week in tech. 01:12:13.800 --> 01:12:14.800 This week in tech. 01:12:14.800 --> 01:12:15.800 This week in tech. 01:12:15.800 --> 01:12:16.800 This week in tech. 01:12:16.800 --> 01:12:17.800 This week in tech. 01:12:17.800 --> 01:12:18.800 This week in tech. 01:12:18.800 --> 01:12:19.800 This week in tech. 01:12:19.800 --> 01:12:20.800 This week in tech. 01:12:20.800 --> 01:12:21.800 This week in tech. 01:12:22.040 --> 01:12:24.040 This is a crap society. 01:12:26.040 --> 01:12:28.040 This is a crap generation. 01:12:29.160 --> 01:12:33.840 This one is crap everywhere. 01:12:33.840 --> 01:12:35.840 There's ads everywhere. 01:12:35.840 --> 01:12:37.840 There's no ads. 01:12:37.840 --> 01:12:39.840 This one's got everything in tech. 01:12:39.840 --> 01:12:40.840 I'm a cranky old man. 01:12:40.840 --> 01:12:43.840 And this week in tech. 01:12:43.840 --> 01:12:46.840 Just made my sense of coffee with my Splendor Flavor blend 01:12:46.840 --> 01:12:48.760 and I'm gonna sign up right now 01:12:48.760 --> 01:12:51.640 for a Go Daddy account and I'm ready. 01:12:51.640 --> 01:12:52.640 I love you. 01:12:52.640 --> 01:12:58.080 How come you're not in the Go Daddy Super Bowl commercial? 01:12:58.080 --> 01:12:59.480 My breast size is too small. 01:12:59.480 --> 01:13:00.480 Yeah, I noticed. 01:13:00.480 --> 01:13:04.560 There were quite a few women in that, but he can't make one de l'air yet. 01:13:04.560 --> 01:13:06.800 I don't think he's got one yet that de l'air. 01:13:06.800 --> 01:13:09.960 Well, but you certainly understand them doing that purposely. 01:13:09.960 --> 01:13:10.960 Right. 01:13:10.960 --> 01:13:11.960 And he's sure getting a lot of attention. 01:13:11.960 --> 01:13:15.200 Yeah, that's the entire point. 01:13:15.200 --> 01:13:18.640 So I haven't talked to Callie, but I know she was in one of the early ones. 01:13:18.640 --> 01:13:23.160 Is she still in the later editions, or is she one of the people who is greatest? 01:13:23.160 --> 01:13:28.880 Well, Callie's commercial was more one of the brand imaging things they're doing, where 01:13:28.880 --> 01:13:31.680 they want to approach a whole bunch of different markets. 01:13:31.680 --> 01:13:38.520 So the whole vibe of Go Daddy is big-chested, all-American, bombshell girls. 01:13:38.520 --> 01:13:42.080 I know that's what I look for when I look for a domain registrar. 01:13:42.080 --> 01:13:43.960 Well, I'll tell you, it's interesting. 01:13:43.960 --> 01:13:51.000 We have, you know, on our homepage is the Go Daddy girl advertisement, and we've done some 01:13:51.000 --> 01:13:55.520 surveys, and lots of people said, well, you know, I saw this picture on the homepage that 01:13:55.520 --> 01:14:01.640 wasn't too sure, you know, what the site was about, and I'm a little worried. 01:14:01.640 --> 01:14:04.320 It's a fool's paradise. 01:14:04.320 --> 01:14:09.320 This is amazing.